Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Need help battling a lie |
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| Anik |
| 12/18/01 at 16:09:50 |
| asalamu alaikum, someone on the net approached me and asked me whether Mohammad's (SAW) death was based on the poisoning of a Jewess and thus the muslims "hate the Jews", and I was like, WHAT? and she pointed me to a popular anti-Islamic missionary website, which I won't post here obviously, but i will give the hadith refernces they cited . Please, someone help me to explain this so I can communicate this to a friend and convince them of the true path of Islam. Jazak Allahu Khairun. asalamau alaikum. abdullah,. [edited by admin] |
| Re: Need help battling a lie |
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| blissfull |
| 12/18/01 at 15:37:26 |
| slm brother please post which site it is. i would like to read this for myself as i am sure other brothers and sisters would like to as well. i doubt anyone will take offence to your telling us the site. this is a discussion board, a community of brothers and sisters. all things negative and positive should be discussed this will only increase our Iman and help to understand and to progress. besides we should all be well aware of whats out there. |
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| se7en |
| 12/18/01 at 16:11:46 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, Please do not post a link to the site. If you are interested in taking a look at it, please speak to brother Abdullah in Madina message or email. The Madina will not be used to advertise a missionary site. Abdullah, bro, my advice to you is to *stop talking to missionaries*. I'm serious. I love you fillah, and these people are punks. Anyway, here are some good sources on this issue: [*] [url=http://members.tripod.com/islamans/Muhammad/Attacks/death.htm]Jewish Feast at Khaibar and Allegations Concerning Muhammad [saw]'s death[/url] [*] [url=http://www.thetruereligion.org/qurayza.htm]New Light On The Story Of Banu Qurayza And The Jews Of Medina [/url] [*] [url=http://www.inter-islam.org/Seerah/ThefallofKhaibarL2P1.html]The Fall of Khaibar[/url] [quote] Ibn Ishaq's biography, the "Sirat Rasul Allah", (THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET), translated by A. Guillaume as "The Life of Muhammad", is the most authentic Sirat (biographical) literature recognized in Islam.[/quote] Ibn Ishaq has no chain of narration in his books, and therefore his authority and his books authenticity are questionable. Read what is said about him: [color=black]Apart from mild complacency or doubtful acceptance of the story itself, Ibn Ishaq as an author was in fact subjected to devastating attacks by scholars, contemporary or later, on two particular accounts. One was his uncritical inclusion in his Sira of so much spurious or forged poetry;17 the other his unquestioning acceptance of just such a story as that of the slaughter of Banu Qurayza. His contemporary, the early traditionist and jurist Malik, called him unequivocally "a liar" and "an impostor"18 "who transmits his stories from the Jews".19 In other words, applying his own criteria, Malik impugned the veracity of Ibn Ishaq's sources and rejected his approach. Indeed, neither Ibn Ishaq's list of informants nor his method of collecting and piecing together such a story would he acceptable to Malik the jurist. In a later age Ibn Hajar further explained the point of Malik's condemnation of Ibn Ishaq. Malik, he said,20 condemned Ibn Ishaq because he made a point of seeking out descendants of the Jews of Medina in order to obtain from them accounts of the Prophet's campaigns as handed down by their forefathers. Ibn Hajar21 then rejected the stories in question in the strongest terms: "such odd tales as the story of Qurayza and al-Nadir". Nothing could be more damning than this outright rejection. --(from like #2 above) [/color] It's very interesting that missionaries quote from his work so often when it's basically *rejected* by all scholarship since it was written. [quote] Tabari's "History". Tabari is one of the most highly respected authors in Islamic writings. His "History" is 39 volumes.[/quote] This was written three hundred years after Rasulullah [saw]'s death and is also found questionable. wAllahu a'lam. Ok, two exams tomorrow.. let me go pretend to study :) wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah. |
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| Anik |
| 12/18/01 at 16:08:22 |
| asalamu alaikum, I think you misunderstood, this site is not allowed to be mentioned along with other anti-Islamic missionary websites... whatever you have to read from it is written here Insha'Allah, and thus there is no more need to go to the site. Unless you are tackling the specific problem, I would not suggest having your head played with by these slanderers and their seemeingly objective websites; although this is a message board, we must shield ourselves from shayton's lies until we have a specific problem. The constitution does not allow these sites to be posted. My aim is not for anyone here to look into this claim and learn about it, but to REFUTE it with the truth to help our ummah Insha'Allah and me as well Insha'Allah. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
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| humble_muslim |
| 12/18/01 at 16:27:20 |
| AA Se7en, I just checked Raheeq Al Mahktoum, considered to be one of the most authentic modern Sirahs. It does seem to indicate that the Ibn Ishaq version of the story of Bani Quariza is true, which your second linked seemed to deny. Can someone check what Tafseer Ibn Kathir says about Bani Quraiza ? |
| NS |
| Re: Need help battling a lie |
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| Anik |
| 12/18/01 at 16:28:01 |
| asalamu alaikum Ukhtee, I am not talking to missionaries, although some other people i speak to go to these websites and come back asking me questions. As a muslims, I fele i am responsible to tell them the truth. That is why I am simply asking that peopl etell me whether this was the truth or not. Of course I will not post the missionary websites, I know that by know ;) but, I still want to know the answer to the "proof" they provide in the hadith. How can those points be refuted? And now, respectful sister, since you have remove dthose "proofs", no one wil be able to help me verify them. Ukhtee, Jazak Allahu Khairun for posting those links but they did not help me because the central question was not answered. I know you just watch out for me when you tell me not to go further into this, but I want to answer to that person who asked me; I myself know that: Muhammad is no more than a Messenger, indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he died or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)? ... (Surah 3: 144) aslaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
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| amatullah |
| 12/18/01 at 18:58:44 |
| Bismillah and salam, I think half of the first statement is true. The prophet saws kept suffering of the pains of the time they poisoned him in the food. I heard in a lecture it was the cause of his death, because all prophets have to be taken by Allah as martyrs. But I don't agree it is why muslims hate jews. Surat albaqara has alot of info to us about what they are like to prophets historically, and we see in contemporary times now the Israeli state genocide of Palestinian muslims. |
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| blissfull |
| 12/18/01 at 20:00:04 |
| slm my perception may differ on shielding oneself. that which needs refuting needs also to be understood. however, i agree that as a general rule. the madina policy is absolutly correct. forgive me for being near sighted at the full issue. wlm. |
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| se7en |
| 12/19/01 at 21:22:29 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, [quote]As a muslims, I feel i am responsible to tell them the truth. That is why I am simply asking that people tell me whether this was the truth or not.[/quote] Of course I agree, you do have a responsibility to convey the truth. But only if *you know* the truth. You need the proper background knowledge before you can get into discussions on this stuff. Before you get into a debate about seerah, here are some good resources and books to read and study: [*] [url=http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b3758.html] Ar Raheeq al Makhtum[/url] (online [url=http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/]here[/url]) [*] [url=http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b3800.html]Martin Ling's Muhammad[/url] [*] [url=http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b3826.html]Haykal's the Life of Muhammad[/url] [*] [url=http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b3759.html]Qadi Iyad's Ash Shifaa[/url] [quote]I still want to know the answer to the "proof" they provide in the hadith.[/quote] From what I skimmed, the ahadeeth mentioned just described the Prophet [saw]'s last illness. How he was in dhikr, how he suffered, etc. There is no link made between his illness and the poisoning by the Jewish woman. That link is implied by the author. [quote]Ukhtee, Jazak Allahu Khairun for posting those links but they did not help me because the central question was not answered. [/quote] The central "theme" of the article was that, Rasulullah [saw] was a false prophet because he was poisoned by a Jewess and died from that. This is a false statement, as his [saw] death was not a result of the poisoning (which is clear in the ahadeeth as well as seerah), and even if that *were* the case, that does not make him a false prophet. The first link up there is a response to this accusation in general, the second talks about the shadyness of some of the sources used by the author, and the last is just some general info on that time period. I apologize if they were not of use to you but they were all I could find at the time that seemed related. Going to these sites and reading about their "proofs" is like going to a KKK site to read their "evidence" about African Americans and their innate inferiority to whites. Obviously, the information there, the "proof", is not even worth considering because it is slanted, skewed and distorted to promote a certain agenda. Would it be a good idea then to go to their site, read their material, and then look for direct responses to their assertions? Or does it make more sense to study things on your own, objectively, intensely, and then when you come across this stuff you can respond appropriately based on your knowledge and understanding? My suggestion is not to be reactive when it comes to these sort of accusations but to know your stuff before hand. Your knowledge of Islam should not come from a desire you have to prove it right to others, but to get an understanding for yourself. wAllahu a'lam. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah. |
| Re: Need help battling a lie |
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| BroHanif |
| 12/20/01 at 18:55:07 |
| AWW, [quote]someone on the net approached me and asked me whether Mohammad's (SAW) death was based on the poisoning of a Jewess and thus the muslims "hate the Jews", [/quote] What complete cobblers, tell the same person that one of the wives of the prophet saws was a Jewess(Hazrat Safiyah) before she came into Islaam. Also once at the time of Hazrat Umar R.A. there was a Jew begging for some money, Umar R.A. asked him about his condition and he said that when you live under Muslim rule you should not be begging in your condition. Thus Umar R.A started the state pension upon seeing an act like this, the old man wasn't a muslim he was a Jew. Another thing, in Islam we love all the prophets. In Judaism and Christiantiy the thoughts are different. Another classic I love to say to the missionary boyz is I would ask em to show me a 'so-called picture of Hazrat Isa A.S.' Now this so called picture has a beard and it always furiates them when you say to them that in Islam keeping a beard is sunnah, thats why we muslims keep it, and I then ask the missonary man that if you love Isa A.S. and his ways so much how come u ain't got a beard!. With that they go...! I've got a few references on how the Muslims helped the Jews. And the Jews helped the Muslims, it'll take time but insha-allah I'll post it. salaams Hanif |
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| amatullah |
| 12/20/01 at 19:12:27 |
| Bismillah and salam Astaghfirllah. I made a mistake. It is a common misconception and my husban may Allah bless him corrected me. The prophet saws was given protection from all people by Allah (surat alma'ida 67), that is when he cancelled his jiwar i think with his uncle. So he couldn't have been killed by the poison even though it kept hurting him. It sounds like that prophets may get killed but not the messangers. I will check this further though. |
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