(Another) Question for the sisters

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(Another) Question for the sisters
Arsalan
12/19/01 at 18:52:53
[slm]

It is the man's responsibility, in the household, to provide for the family.  This means providing for all of their needs, and making sure that they are taken care of.  This includes food and shelter, of course, but is not limited to that.  "Ar rijaalu qawwaamoona 3alaa an-nisaa" right? :)

My question:

What, then, is the responsibility that a woman has towards the family?

P.S. A *responsibility* is something that she is *required* to do.  Something that is simply *recommended* is not a *responsibility.*

P.P.S. Sisters only, please :)  At least, let them speak first!  Jazak Allahu Khairan.
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
amal
12/19/01 at 21:40:12
WARNING: Sisters, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say [i]can[/i] and [i]will[/i] be used against you in a court of lov---errr law :)

Wa laqad a’thara man anthara (Excused is he who has warned)
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Caraj
12/19/01 at 21:56:18
Ok, well I'll brave this one. Keep in mind this is only my opinion and
I am not Muslim. And I realize many on this board are young and many are my daughter-in-laws age. ( I feel sooooooo old lol )

I feel a woman who is not working should have the house spotless and dinner on the table when her husband gets home. If she is a house wife then her husband and home are her job. I would consider her responsabilities, to keep a clean home, have meals cooked and to have herself looking good when he comes home. Meet the needs of her husband and her home in every way possible. Being careful with the finances that he trusts to her. If children are in the picture then making sure they are well cared for, clean, fed and happy. But if she works then hopefully her husband will pitch in on the chores and cooking.

Responsabilities- To keep a clean, well fed, peaceful home and to see her husband (and children) are happy.

:) Now I want you to know that if my daughter-in-laws read this they would band me from their home lol.

I'm very old fashioned and my husband, he is a wonderful, loving and kind man and I love him so much that taking care of him and waiting on him is a pleasure not a chore or responsability.

I always want to worry about him getting a speeding ticket on the way home :) Cause he is so happy and egar to get home that he hurries :)

Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Hania
12/20/01 at 04:59:15
slm

[quote]WARNING: Sisters, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of lov---errr law :)
[/quote]

heh heh. The brother certainly has set us sisters up in a clever trap. Hmmmmmmmm very clever Bro Arsalan.

Okay the women's role is to be her husbands
'partner and committed helper' as said by Prophet Muhammhad (pbuh)during his last sermon. Thus if the husband works then the women looks after the home. shhhhhhesh I can't believe I said it.

I must admit before reading posts about why women should stay at home I had this frustration inside me with men who expressed their desire for their women to remain at home and not work. And I think this is because of western attitudes. There is an unfortunate stigma associated with women who choose to stay at home and be house wives or mothers. It has become the norm for women to get careers and leave their children with the child minders. Unfortunately in this society the position of a  women who chooses to be a housewife is seen as secondary to women with careers. I think this belief system has been embedded in my brain but its wrong because in Islam the role of a mother in Islam is seen as a very important job. Perhaps if western society placed the role of a housewife on equal par as that of a successful business woman, housemothers/wives in the west wouldn't feel like failures (WHICH THEY ARE NOT) in comparison to their female career minded counterparts.

Its just like Cara said, if her daughter in laws read what she wrote about wanting to care for the home and her husband they may raise an eyebrow. But why should they raise an eyebrow to a job that was accepted as the norm only 30 years ago? Is it not the norm in todays society?

What would also help is if the husbands would allocate the wives a monthly salary for the work they do at home :) Say 30% of their paycheck :)

wa'salam
Hania
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Rehana
12/20/01 at 05:08:41
[slm]

male = provider
female = educator

I read somewhere once that in the Islamic home, the mother is the University for the children.

:-)

[wlm]
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Zafirah
12/20/01 at 08:36:25

[quote]

It is the man's responsibility, in the household, to provide for the family.  This means providing for all of their needs, and making sure that they are taken care of.  This includes food and shelter, of course, but is not limited to that.  "Ar rijaalu qawwaamoona 3alaa an-nisaa" right? :)

My question:

What, then, is the responsibility that a woman has towards the family?

P.S. A *responsibility* is something that she is *required* to do.  Something that is simply *recommended* is not a *responsibility.*

P.P.S. Sisters only, please :)  At least, let them speak first!  Jazak Allahu Khairan.[/quote]

Okay - here we go ...

I believe that the woman's role is to take care of the family.  To nurture and care for the needs of the family - this includes but is in no way limited to cooking and cleaning.

But it is more than that.  It is being a good steward of what Allah has provided to you.  Properly spending and not squandaring the household funds.  Providing a safe haven for your family to come home to after being out in the world for the day.  Being there for them emotionally, physically and intellectually.

To educate the children in all that is necessary, including ensuring a sound education in Islam.  

We aren't maids or household servants... but our duty is to care for, as best we can, the gifts we have received from Allah.  Our husbands (in return for all they do for us) and our children.

Just my .02

I know this isn't "politically correct" and it isn't very "feminist" of me - but that is what I believe my role in my household is.

Z.
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Kathy
12/20/01 at 09:19:06
slm

I am taking the copy and paste route:

Islam Q&A

Praise be to Allaah.

The more correct view in this matter is that stated by a number of scholars, such as Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shaybah, Abu Ishaaq al-Jawzjaani and Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on them), who said that it is the woman’s duty to serve her husband within the bounds of what is reasonable and as other women who are like her serve husbands who are like him. She also has to take care of the house, doing things like cooking and so on, in accordance with what is customary among people like her and her husband. This differs according to circumstances, time and place, hence Ibn Taymiyah said: “This varies according to circumstances. What the Bedouin wife has to do is not the same as what the urban wife has to do.”

The evidence for this more correct opinion is:

the Hadeeth of al-Bukhaari:

Imaam al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh that Faatimah (may Allaah be pleased with her), the daughter of the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) asked him for a servant. He said, “Shall I not tell you of something that is better for you than that? When you go to sleep, say ‘Subhaan-Allaah (Glory be to Allaah)’ thirty three times, ‘Al-Hamdu Lillaah (praise be to Allaah)’ thirty three times, and ‘Allaahu akbar (Allaah is Most Great)’ thirty four times.” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari bi Sharh al-‘Asqallaani, part 9/506).

Al-Tabari said, in his commentary on this hadeeth: we may understand from this hadeeth that every woman who is able to take care of her house by making bread, grinding flour and so on, should do so. It is not the duty of the husband if it is the custom for women like her to do this themselves.

What we learn from the hadeeth is that when Faatimah (may Allaah be pleased with her) asked her father  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) for a servant, he did not command her husband to find her a servant or hire someone to do these tasks, or to do these tasks himself. If it were ‘Ali’s duty to do these things, the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have commanded him to do them.

The hadeeth of Asma’ bint Abi Bakr

Imaam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported in his Saheeh that Asma’ bint Abi Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “I got married to al-Zubayr, and he had no wealth on earth and no slaves, nothing except a camel for bringing water and his horse. I used to feed his horse and bring water, and I used to sew patches on the bucket. I made dough but I was not good at baking bread, so my (female) neighbours among the Ansaar used to bake bread for me, and they were sincere women. I used to bring date pits from al-Zubayr’s land that the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had given to him, carrying them on my head. This land was two-thirds of a farsakh away. One day I came, carrying the date pits on my head, and I met the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who had a group of the Ansaar with him. He called me and made his camel kneel down, for me to ride behind him, but I felt too shy to go with the men, and I remembered al-Zubayr and his jealousy, for he was the most jealous of people. The Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) realized that I felt shy, so he moved on. I came to al-Zubayr and told him, ‘I met the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when I was carrying date pits on my head, and he had a group of his companions with him. He made his camel kneel down for me to ride with him, but I remembered your jealousy.’ He said, ‘By Allaah, it bothers me more that you have to carry the date pits than that you should ride with him.’” Asma’ said: “After that, Abu Bakr sent me a servant to take care of the horse, and it was as if I had been liberated from slavery.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath, 9/319).

In the commentary on the hadeeth of Asma’, it says: from this incident we may understand that it is the woman’s duty to take care of everything that her husband needs her to take care of. This was the opinion of Abu Thawr. Other fuqaha’ suggested that Asma’ did this voluntarily and that she was not obliged to do it.

Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqallaani said: “It seems that this incident – Asma’ carrying the date pitss to help her husband – and other similar incidents were the matter of necessity, namely that her husband al-Zubayr and other Muslim men were preoccupied with jihaad and other things that the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had commanded them to do, and they did not have time to take care of domestic matters themselves, and could not afford to hire servants to do that for them, and there was no one else who could do that apart from their womenfolk. So the women used to take care of the home and whoever lived in it, so that the men could devote their time to supporting Islam.”

Then he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): “What is more likely is that the matter had to do with the customs in that land, for customs may vary in this regard.”

It seems that what Ibn Hajar said is close to the view of those who say that the wife has to take care of her husband and the home in accordance with the dictates of local custom.

Ibn al-Qayyim said, concerning the story of Asma’: “When the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw Asma’ with the date pits on her head, and her husband al-Zubayr was with her, he did not tell him that she did not have to serve him, or that this was unfair to her. He approved of her serving him and of all the women among the Sahaabah helping their husbands. This is a matter concerning which there is no doubt.”

The hadeeth of Jaabir

The Shaykh of the Muhadditheen, Imaam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported in his Saheeh that Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah said: “My father died and left seven daughters, or nine daughters. I married a woman who had been previously married, and the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to me, ‘Did you get married, O Jaabir?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He asked, ‘A virgin or a previously-married woman?’ I said, ‘A previously-married woman.’ He said, ‘Why not a young woman so you could play and joke with one another?’ I said, ‘ ‘Abd-Allaah [the father of Jaabir] has died and left behind daughters, and I would not like to bring them someone who is like them, so I got married to a woman who can take care of them.’ He said, ‘May Allaah bless you’ or ‘Fair enough.’” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari bi Sharh al-‘Asqallaani, vol.9/513).

The evidence derived from the hadeeth of Jaabir is that al-Bukhaari introduced this hadeeth under the heading, “Baab ‘awn al-mar’ah zawjahaa fi waladih (Chapter: a woman helping her husband with his children)”.

Imaam Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqallaani said, commenting on this introduction by al-Bukhaari: “It seems that al-Bukhaari derived the idea that a woman should take care of her husband’s children from the fact that the wife of Jaabir took care of his sisters; if she should take care of his sisters then it is even more befitting that she should take of his children.” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari bi Sharh al-‘Asqallaani, vol.9/513).

We can say that the wife should take care of her husband, as this is more befitting than her taking care of his sisters or his daughters from another wife.

We may also understand from this hadeeth that what was customary at the time of the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was that women did not only take care of their husbands, they also took care of those who were dependent on their husbands and lived in their houses.

The evidence that this understanding is correct is the fact that the Messenger of Allaah  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not tell Jaabir off for his reason for marrying a previously-married woman, which was that she could take care of his sisters. This indicates that the custom among the Muslims at that time dictated that the wife should take care of those who were under her husband’s care, which means that the wife should serve her husband in those matters that are dictated by local custom, because the husband’s right to be served by his wife comes before that of his sisters.

‘Urf (custom)

General contracts – including marriage contracts – should be governed by the customs that are known among the people, and the custom is that the wife should serve her husband and also take care of matters in the home. In some societies, the custom is that the wife should take care of more than the regular domestic matters.

Imaam al-Qurtubi said, concerning the matter of the wife serving her husband and taking care of the home: “This has to do with ‘Urf, which is one of the bases of sharee’ah. The women of the Bedouin and the desert-dwellers serve their husbands, even looking for fresh water and taking care of the animals…”

What happens nowadays is that the wife – usually – serves her husband and takes care of different matters within the home. There may be a servant to help her with that if her husband can afford it. If the husband knows that the majority of scholars say that it is not obligatory for the wife to serve her husband and take care of the house, I say that one of the benefits of this may be that he will not go to extremes and demand too much of his wife in this regard, and that he will not give her a hard time if she falls short, because what she is doing is not a duty according to the majority of fuqaha’. However, even it is a duty according to some of them – and this is what we think is more correct – the fact that there is such a difference of opinion means that the husband has to look at what she is doing as something voluntary rather than obligatory, or something in which the scholars differ as to whether it is obligatory, so he should be gentle with her if he sees that she is falling short in this regard, and he should encourage her and help her to do it.


Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Mystic
12/20/01 at 09:42:49
[slm]
warning: content based on opinion...proceed with caution :):):)
it is sad to see many Muslim women falling into the same traps as their western counterparts of being entrenched in the rat race while their children are being taken care of by *outsiders*...For Muslims its even a bigger catastrophe, since these children build up on a nice, clean, western foundation that is totally *unislamic*...and no, Sunday school does *Not* make up for the 40+ hours half of these children spend in un-islamic day cares.
Allah created the intrinsic natures of males and females differently and He assigned our roles to become "second nature" to us. Its *natural* for a woman to want to nurture, educate, protect, love, create a comfortable haven...even animals know and do this!!!! As it is natural for a man to want to be the provider, protector,etc etc.
yet what happens when we go against Allah's wills?
a)Divorce rates are soaring, and sadly enough in America at least there is no difference between Muslim and Non Muslim households (heard this in a lecture)...
The number one reason cited? Finances!!!! But hold on? I thought TWO people were working???
b)Children are becoming harder to "manage" (like they are a bank account or something!!!)and we have seen the extremes in columbine and alike (okay they weren't Muslim either) ...
c)the very moral fibre of societies are disintegrating...its saddening to hear tales of sordid happenings even in so called Muslim states.

Like Hania i used to get *mad* and talk about how *unjust* it was for a woman to be home etc etc...
anywayz, after rubbing "shoulders" with these people for barely a year and a half, I am ready to run as fast as possible to the nearest Mussallah and simply pray:):):)
PS: I am procrastinating at work...so maybe I should go now:):):):):):)

Maliha
[wlm]
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Caraj
12/20/01 at 10:50:09
[quote]slm

What would also help is if the husbands would allocate the wives a monthly salary for the work they do at home :) Say 30% of their paycheck :)
[/quote]
Ok :) Just a question :)
If the husband is providing the rent/mortgage and groceries and utitlies and clothing from his salery is she not already getting 50% of it?
OK :) I am ducking from my screen as I can see things being thrown at me already  :)  (just joking)

Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Ayla
12/20/01 at 11:07:23
Kathy thank you so much for that information - it was great to read.  I will have to read it more indepth when I have the time.

I am not muslim and not old fashioned and in some circles considered a feminist - and I agree that a wife should be a partner and helper to her husband.  The specific tasks which need to be accomplished can be negotiated between the two partners.  If the roles are split so that the wife stays home there is no shame in that.  Raising your children should be a priority.  If only we here in America could see that, if only we paid our teachers in accordance with the responcibility their bear to our children (but that's another rant all together)  On the other hand though I see no shame in the husband staying home.  There is a delightful post in the Men's Health Club section about a man who was laid off over the summer and is now a stay at home dad.  He is happy and his son is cared for and loved and as partners he and his wife have found a way to support each other.

There's also something to be said for women who don't want to stay at home.  Should they have to?  I don't think that nannies and such are a good substitute for family, but if you have a husband who would like to stay at home or a mother who would love to watch her grandchildren, I see no harm in that.  

Back to the question though - my responcibility is to love my husband and to do everything in my power to make his life happy.  It is my responsibility to challenge him and push him, to care for him and support him however he needs.  And his responcibility to me is the same.  We will never starve, for our love will sustain us.  We have gone through periods of time when we were both unemployed, and we were able to figure it out, some very hard times have strained us but we love eachother and work these things out together.
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Hania
12/20/01 at 11:22:51

[quote]slm

What would also help is if the husbands would allocate the wives a monthly salary for the work they do at home :) Say 30% of their paycheck :)

Ok :) Just a question :)
If the husband is providing the rent/mortgage and groceries and utitlies and clothing from his salery is she not already getting 50% of it?
OK :) I am ducking from my screen as I can see things being thrown at me already  :)  (just joking)
[/quote]

nah 100%-50%=50% left of his salary

30% for me means the important things can be puchased like clothes,perfume, hair care products, you know the essential items.

50%-30% = 20%
The 20% can be saved for our future :) actally maybe we can dip into the 20%, take 2% out so the husband can spend it on himself or save it for a presant for me :)
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Ayla_A
12/20/01 at 11:40:06
[slm]

I think that a woman should be given the choice to either stay home with the children or to work.  Being a full time mother is a very hard job and I admire the women that devote their whole life to raising their children.  I feel though that if it is at all possible that the wife (or husband) should stay home with the children until they are in school full time (grade 1 here).  This way there values and morals are already very much instilled in them.

I agree that it should be agreed upon by the husband and wife if she is to work, just makes the marriage smoother.

A husband should do what he can to make the possiblity of the wife to stay home if she chooses to do.

Now, I have a hard opinion about what a wife's job is if she stays home with the children.  The husband should not have to do anything inside the house (but yard work and hauling the garbage is a man's job, no matter what:-)).  I agree with Caraj that you should keep a very clean house.  Supper should be ready for when the husband comes home. (I do disagree with the being all made up for when he comes home from work, I mean make sure you are clean and your hair is combed:)) Children should be very well looked after.  My other feeling is that a wife should get up with her husband in the morning and see him off to work.  This is an opportunity for the husband and wife to share some "personal" time with each other, maybe with the children still sleeping.

well that is my 0.02:)

[wlm]
Ayla_A
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
kiwi25
12/20/01 at 14:57:03
salam,

in islam, its allready told what the women's responsibilities are: taking care of the household and such, but that doesnt mean she cant work outside the home of course

ive allready said that before somewhere esle?

and wow cara, your hubby must be very happy with you ;),

but personnally to me, thats over doing it , my hubby better be happy with a tv dinner

night one - ramen noodles

night two - mac and cheese

night three - soup in a can ( cambells new englanh clam chouder)

night four - order out PIZZA!!!!!

night five - toast

night six - peanut butter and jelly

night seven - grilled cheese

and repeat

wasalam
nouha:)
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Hania
12/20/01 at 17:31:04

[quote]

night one - ramen noodles

night two - mac and cheese

night three - soup in a can ( cambells new englanh clam chouder)

night four - order out PIZZA!!!!!

night five - toast

night six - peanut butter and jelly

night seven - grilled cheese

and repeat

wasalam
nouha:)[/quote]

Oh sis Nouha this type of food is not good for the digestive system, especially the next morning! Better to learn to cook nourishing meals because if you are taking care of the household duties it includes cleaning the toilet!!!
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Marcie
12/20/01 at 21:16:08
As salamu alaykum

LOL that was a good one Hania.  Personally sometimes I like to make really nice meals that we both enjoy.  Although I admit that when I'm working I get too tired to be spending hours in the kitchen.

As salamu alaykum
Marcie
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Caraj
12/20/01 at 22:07:40
Kiwi25 and Hania   .....  Shame on you  lol   :)  But I do like night #4 and if we can add tomatoe soup to the grilled cheese sandwich you might have me sold on the idea  :)  

Oh Ayla_A I couldn't agree with you more. About the getting up in the mornings and seeing your husband off. Not only is it to have time to  together but it also shows a man you care about him and appreciate and respect his efforts of going out each day and working to support you and the family. I don't know about you folks but when I feel and know my efforts are appreciated I tend to want to do even more for the person I love (sons, family, husband)

There have been a couple times my husband let me sleep in and I would wake when he kissed my forehead good-bye. I felt so robbed of the time we could of had and him going to work with no breakfast that I scolded him not to do that anymore. (jokingly)

I remember as a 4 and 5 year old helping my Grandmother cook breakfast for my Grandpa before he woke up. My poor husband, I think he felt real weird at first as he was not use to a woman waiting on him so and I feel felt it an insult if I couldn't wait on him.
Am I weird or what?

And Kiwi25
*****************************************************
and wow cara, your hubby must be very happy with you ,
but personnally to me, thats over doing it
*****************************************************
:) Yes he is, as I am with him. Over doing it nawwwwwwwwwwww  :)
How can you over do Love, admeration, respect and appreciation.
I don't know if I ever told anyone on the board here but My husband and I are a product of an internet (for lack of a better way of putting it) romance or courting . Thus my change in ideas about dating. My husband and I knew each others hearts, minds, dreams, goals, hopes, strength, weaknesses and Loved each other before we even laid eyes on each other. It was nearly a year of emailing and over seas phone calls. But thats another story.

As I said earlier  :)  :) I always want my husband to find me and our home so pleasing, comforting and peaceful that I have to worry about him getting a speeding ticket cause he is in such a hurry to get home.  :)



Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Anik
12/21/01 at 01:27:15
asalaamu alaikum,

sorry I must interlope into this one,

I was SHOCKED by the way Sr. Kiwi's husband will be treated if she isn't married yet lol


[quote]
night one - ramen noodles

night two - mac and cheese

night three - soup in a can ( cambells new englanh clam chouder)

night four - order out PIZZA!!!!!

night five - toast

night six - peanut butter and jelly

night seven - grilled cheese

and repeat

[/quote]

I would flip

Even night #4 every week would just get to me

how bout

Night #

1. Italian (pizza, pasta, brushcetta)

2. Indian (roti, daal, tandoori, rice, dosa)

3. American (burgers, etc.)

4. Mexican (tacos, fajitas, burritos, etc.)

5. Chinese (noodles, won tons, different meats, rice)

6. Carribean (that's a personal bias actually: doubles, roti, kalaloo)

7. My turn (whatever I can cook all by myself)

REALITY: Whatever goes seven nights a week, whoever is not exhausted on the sofa makes it :)

All other nights, help out by either chopping the vegetables or cleaning up, or feeding my wife Insha'Allah. :)

I am so picky with food, even though I'm so skinny, and I love my meat (perhaps because I was deprived of it as a youngster somewhat).  

Different dish each week, restricted only by type of food. how does that sound?  Not in any way would my wife have this task, but it would be our way of bonding Insha'Allah. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Ruqayyah
12/21/01 at 01:55:24
[slm]

i don't mean to bash on nouha, but I wouldn't allow myself to eat like that, let alone my husband :) I'm not married, but i really am looking forward to doing all those lovely things like making yummy meals for a family and making sure the house looks good. inshallah i hope i can balance that w/ work. I have the deepest respect for mothers-they're supermoms who do it all!

[wlm]
Ruqayyah

Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
M.F.
12/21/01 at 06:38:10
Assalamu alaikum,
I found that I get a feeling for what my duties are depending on what situation my hubby and I are in.  Like when he was working and I wasn't, I felt that the least I could do was have a nice clean house and a meal for him to come back to!! Ok I got tired of doing dishes, but  I'd think to myself: I can't ask him to do them cause he just got back from a long day at work!  So I just did it (not always wholeheartedly) but I'd hope for some thawab from Allah.  But do you get rewarded for doing your duty?  It's your duty!
Al hamdu lillah I have a husband who helps out whenever he can, especially when we have guests.  That really helps me not grumble!
Now that I'm working, I feel my duty is still the same: have a clean house for him (although he doesn't really mind a mess and so it doesn't have to be cleaned as often or as thoroughly) but most importantly have a meal ready for him although he doesn't mind having scrambled eggs every night :) (Al hamdu lillah!!!).  Why didn't I feel that now that I'm working he has to do half the work?  Because I want him to feel comfortable at home.  I don't mind cooking, in fact I enjoy it.  I don't have to do a lot of cleaning, and on weekends he does help when there's something to be done.  
Besides, his job is about 50 times more stressful than mine is.  Who wants to do anything after a day at that kind of job!  I'd rather have him relaxed and happy than stressed and having to think about housework!
We don't have children so I don't know how that's going to work out.  
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Ayla_A
12/21/01 at 11:23:10
Salaams Caraj

you wrote

[quote]
I don't know if I ever told anyone on the board here but My husband and I are a product of an internet (for lack of a better way of putting it) romance or courting . Thus my change in ideas about dating. My husband and I knew each others hearts, minds, dreams, goals, hopes, strength, weaknesses and Loved each other before we even laid eyes on each other. It was nearly a year of emailing and over seas phone calls. But thats another story.[/quote]

Me too me too.  My dh and I met over the internet as well.  We emailed/chatted for 6 months and married only 16 hours after meeting in person.  (We didn't want to do anything wrong!!)

I think meeting someone over the internet allowed me to get to know his heart and soul.....

Ayla_A
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
se7en
12/26/01 at 05:49:35
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah,

Cara, *wow*.  Your post was definitely interesting to read :)

This is an excerpt from an article I read recently:
[color=black]
There are other aspects of the Shari’a which deserve mention as illustrations of our theme, not least those which have been largely forgotten by Muslim societies. The intersections between the two gender universes are sometimes designed by the Lawgiver as rights of women, and sometimes as rights of men; and the former category is more frequently omitted from actualised Muslim communities. Frequently the jurists’ exegesis of the texts is plurivocal. Domestic chores, for instance, appear as an aspect of interior sociality, but this is not identified with purely female space, since they are regarded by some madhhabs, including the Shafi‘i, as the responsibility of the man rather than the wife. A’isha was asked, after the Blessed Prophet’s death, what he used to do at home when he was not at prayer; and she replied: ‘He served his family: he used to sweep the floor, and sew clothes.’ (Bukhari, Adhan, 44.) On this basis, Shafi‘i jurists defend the woman’s right not to perform housework. For instance, the fourteenth century Syrian jurist Ibn al-Naqib insists: ‘A woman is not obliged to serve her husband by baking, grinding flour, cooking, washing, or any other kind of service, because the marriage contract entails, for her part, only that she let him enjoy her sexually, and she is not obliged to do other than that.’

In the Hanafi madhhab, by contrast, these acts are regarded as the wife’s obligations. Another sufficient reminder of the difficulty of generalising about Islamic law, which remains a diverse body of rules and approaches. (Another important area, which cannot be detailed here, is the law for custody of children: the Hanafis prefer boys to leave the divorced mother at the age of 7, to live with the father; girls remain with her until the menarch. For the Malikis, the boy stays with the mother until sexual maturity (ihtilam), and the girl until her marriage is consummated.)

Islam’s theology of gender thus contends with a maze, a web of connections which demand familiarity with a diverse legal code, regional heterogeneity, and with the metaphysical no less than with the physical. This complexity should warn us against offering facile generalisations about Islam’s attitude to women. Journalists, feminists and cultivated people generally in the West have harboured deeply negative verdicts here. Often these verdicts are arrived at through the observation of actual Muslim societies; and it would be both futile and immoral to suggest that the modern Islamic world is always to be admired for its treatment of women. Women in countries such as Saudi Arabia, where they are not even permitted to drive cars, are objectively the victims of an oppression which is not the product of a divinely-willed sheltering of a sex, but of ego, of the nafs of the male. In this way, types of ‘Islamization’ being launched in several countries today by individuals driven by resentment and committed to an anthropomorphised and hence andromorphic God, appear to bear no relation either to traditional fiqh discourse or to the revelatory insistence on justice. This imbalance will continue unless actualised religion learns to reincorporate the dimension of ihsan, which valorises the feminine principle, and also obstructs and ultimately annihilates the ego which underpins gender chauvinism. We need to distinguish, as many Muslim women thinkers are doing, between the expectations of the religion’s ethos (as legible in scripture, classical exegesis, and spirituality), and the actual asymmetric structures of post-classical Muslim societies, which, like Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Chinese cultures, contain much that is in real need of reform.

By now it should have become clear that we are not vaunting the revelation as either a ‘macho’ chauvinism or as a miraculous prefigurement of late twentieth-century feminism. Feminism, in any case, has no orthodoxy, as Fiorenza reminds us; and certain of its forms are repellent to us, and are clearly damaging to women and society, while others may demonstrate striking convergences with the Shari‘a and our gendered cosmologies. We advocate a nuanced understanding which tries to bypass the sexism-versus-feminism dialectic by proposing a theology in which the Divine is truly gender-neutral, but gifts humanity with a legal code and family norms which are rooted in the understanding that, as Irigaray insists, the sexes ‘are not equal but different’, and will naturally gravitate towards divergent roles which affirm rather than suppress their respective genius.  

Biology should be destiny, but a destiny that allows for multiple possibilities. Women’s discourse valorizes the home; but Muslim women have for long periods of Islam’s history left their homes to become scholars. A hundred years ago the orientalist Ignaz Goldziher showed that perhaps fifteen percent of medieval hadith scholars were women, teaching in the mosques and universally admired for their integrity. Colleges such as the Saqlatuniya Madrasa in Cairo were funded and staffed entirely by women. The most recent study of Muslim female academicians, by Ruth Roded, charts an extraordinary dilemma for the researcher:

‘If U.S. and European historians feel a need to reconstruct women’s history because women are invisible in the traditional sources, Islamic scholars are faced with a plethora of source material that has only begun to be studied. [ . . . ] In reading the biographies of thousands of Muslim women scholars, one is amazed at the evidence that contradicts the view of Muslim women as marginal, secluded, and restricted.’

Stereotypes come under almost intolerable strain when Roded documents the fact that the proportion of female lecturers in many classical Islamic colleges was higher than in modern Western universities. A’isha, Mother of Believers, who taught hadith in the ur-mosque of Islam, is as always the indispensable paradigm: lively, intelligent, devout, and humbling to all subsequent memory.
[/color]

An awesome article about womens rights in general can be found [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=masjid&action=display&num=3874]here[/url], and you can read a discussion we had a bit related to this [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=masjid&action=display&num=3949]here[/url].

I think, like Shaykh Munajjid mentioned and the above article implies, that for the most part, a wife's responsibilities - that which she is *required* to do in terms of sharia - depends upon her particular situation and time.  I think it's very cool that though there are certain responsibilities and rights delineated in the sharia (like for example the mutual right of sexual satisfaction) the actual relationship dynamic is largely determined by the individual man and woman, what they deem suitable and are most comfortable with.

Isn't that cool, how I said so much and still didn't answer the question :)

wAllahu a'lam.

wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah.  
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Marcie
12/26/01 at 07:53:56
As salamu alaykum Se7en,  

Is it possible for you to tell me where I can find this article?  I was curious about the issue of women driving in Saudi, since I know a sister, who are affected by this.  Jazakum Allah Khair.
I knew that there are different opinions regarding a women's role in the marriage, but because I such a sifhead I did not want to get into it.  One suggestion for sisters getting married is that they discuss a potential husband's attitude towards women, before the marriage, since it can save you a lot of aggrevation later on.  Just my two cents.

As salamu alaykum
Marcie
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
kiwi25
12/26/01 at 17:42:56
salam,

PEOPLE PEOPLE!!!

its just a joke :)

wasalam
nouha:)
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
kiwi25
12/27/01 at 01:05:55
[slm]

astaghfurallah sister Nouha! is this how you would treat your husband?? Ha ha! that was so funny! and yes, I was sitting right there with her when she typed her dinner menu for a slacker. She was joking! wasn't serious! (didn't think you'd get chewed out like that!)

[wlm]
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Arsalan
12/27/01 at 11:21:49
[slm]

Umm ...

Kiwi25 ... you're talking to yourself there!!  

Everything ok?!?  

:)
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
Seeker
12/27/01 at 23:39:35
[quote]

Umm ...

Kiwi25 ... you're talking to yourself there!!  

Everything ok?!?  

:)[/quote]

[slm]
HAHA! oh my. Sorry bout that Nouha.. ok Nouha came over to my house and I never logged off her account. So, I was the one who really wrote that reply. man, I'm on the floor!
[wlm]
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
kiwi25
12/28/01 at 11:30:23
salam,

please read the "i do not talk to myself" thread,

and everything shall be explained....

wasalam
nouha:)
Re: (Another) Question for the sisters
se7en
01/02/02 at 03:51:23

[quote]As salamu alaykum Se7en,  [/quote]

wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatAllah Marcie :)  Sorry for taking so long to respond!

[quote]Is it possible for you to tell me where I can find this article?  [/quote]

I didn't put a link up to it is because there are parts of the article that I find questionable.  InshaAllah I will Madina Message you the link.

If anyone else is interested, I can send the link your way as well.  Just send me a madina message, and I'll hook you up inshaAllah :)

take care

wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah


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