Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| How do *you* pray? |
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| eleanor |
| 12/25/01 at 14:26:58 |
| Bismillahi Rahmanir Raheem, slm Sisters (and brothers I suppose..) I have a problem. All the time I was going on the assumption that women pray the same as men. ie the same bowing, and sajdah movements. Everything the same. I read a hadith where Aisha said when she asked Rasulullah how should women pray, he replied they should pray as he did. I also heard it said that there is no single hadith which states a woman should pray any differently to a man. So, that said, my husband is convinced that women pray differently to men. That they sit on one leg folded under them and the other leg out to the side to do sajdah. That their forearms are on the ground (:0 remember the "dog" hadith). They aren't supposed to raise their behinds in the air like men do. Being me, I wanted proof of this, other than the fact that all the women he ever knew prayed like this. Then he read something in a book that supported what he was saying. This book was a Pakistani one too. But apart from that I've seen varying opinions on different websites. One Mauritian website backed up his opinion. Well, I need your feedback on this. First - how do you pray yourself? Second - do you know any hadith or proofs to back it up with? Sister in suspense, wasalaam eleanor |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| Marcie |
| 12/25/01 at 19:45:32 |
| As salamu alaykum Eleanor, Your husband probably follows the Hanifee School of Thought, which has differences for how men and women pray. I personally follow how Al Albani has taught us to pray in his book, which states that there are no differences in how men and women pray. Unfortunately I lent my book to someone so I don't know the exact title. The reason why I pray this way is that Al Albani has used the strongest hadiths when compiling this book and that is more important to me that following a specific Madhaab. As salamu alaykum Marcie |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/25/01 at 21:47:46 |
| slm Here was the book Marcie was referring to, The Prophet's Prayer Described. The book is online. [url] http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/prayer/albaani/prayer_1.html [/url] |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| abc |
| 12/26/01 at 02:54:35 |
| Assalamalaikum I too have been sooooooooo confused about this. Coming from India (where most ppl whether knowingly or not follow the Hanafi school of law) I was taught to pray differently from the men. But then I saw the Arab women (mostly Shafi'es) pray the same way as men. I tried looking in books (mostly urdu ones) for some explanation, but even where it would say that men and women should pray differently, it never cited any hadith to support the view. And I found several ahadith to support the other opinion. So I started praying the way the men do. I remember we once had a discussion like this before, and someone had said they would put up evidence for the hanafi view but never did. Does anyone know what the daleel is for the hanafi view? Wassalam |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| se7en |
| 12/26/01 at 06:47:40 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, Along with the things that you mentioned eleanor, some from the Hanafi school say that you're not supposed to spread your feet the way men do (like standing 'foot to foot' with the person next to you), that in rukuu [bowing] your elbows should be tucked in (as opposed to away from your sides), and other things like that so that you're not as "spread out" as men. What I've always been taught, and what I personally practice, is to pray the same as men. This is because I've always been taught that we should strive to emulate the Prophet [saw] *exactly*, except in cases where there are specific texts which differentiate between men and women. As far as I know, there are no ahadeeth that say women should pray this way. From what I remember from a class on this, there are some later scholars who say that women should pray in this manner for reasons of hayaa or modesty. I in no way mean to belittle these scholars by saying this, but I personally just feel more comfortable going by what Rasulullah [saw] taught - and he taught by what he said, and also what he chose not to say. I think, wAllahu a'lam, that if women were supposed to pray differently than men there would be a specific text from Rasulullah [saw] on that. This is all just from me personally, so take it with a grain of salt and pepper (or however that saying goes :)). It's always a good idea to ask someone knowledgeable about this stuff. And Allah knows best. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah :) |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| se7en |
| 12/26/01 at 06:52:35 |
| as salaamu alaykum, I was just surfing on this topic and found this.. it's a ruling by Jamaal Zarabozo, who I believe says niqaab is required. Keep in mind that this is *his* answer to the question, and there may be other legit answers out there. [color=black] Q After being criticized on the way I prayed my salat by women from different schools of thought whose criticism often contradicted one another, I began to read numerous books and ahadith on the performance of salat. In studying, I learned that the person who had taught my mother to pray by dictating the prayer for her to write down had left out the tashahhud! I thought that I had finally learned salat correctly, but when I performed the salat with an Afghan woman, she sharply admonished me that I was praying like a man, and she said that women should not straighten their backs on bowing, point their right toes to the qiblah in tashahhud, etc. The books that I had read made no differentiation between men and women in the performance of salat except the extent of clothing. Insha-Allah, could you provide me with the correct way for a woman to pray? A. The general principle is that every act of the prayer of women is exactly the same as the prayer of men unless there is some clear proof showing otherwise. In fact, the general principle is that the laws for women are exactly the same as those for men unless there is proof showing otherwise. There is a difference of opinion among the scholars with respect to the manner in which a woman is supposed to perform the prayer. Some say that she should keep her body close together and not spread it out like men do in the prayer. However, there are no authentic reports from the Prophet (peace be upon him) stating that. There does not seem to be anything authentic of this nature from the Companions either. There are, though, some reports from the Followers stating that the woman does not extend herself in the prayer the way that men do. Such authentic reports have come from Mamar, Qatada, Ata and Ibrahim al-Nakhai. (Such reports may be found in the Musannafs of ibn Abu Shaiba and Abdul Razzaq al-Sanani.) In Sunan al-Kubra (vol. 2, p. 222), al-Baihaqi states that this revolves around the fact that women are supposed to remained covered or, that is, not expose themselves. Perhaps the best way to resolve this dispute and Allah knows best is to say that when women are not praying in the presence of non-related men, then they should pray in exactly the same manner as men. However, if there are men present, in the same way that the scholars say that she should then cover her face during the prayer, then she should not pray in that fashion. Instead of extending her body in the bowing, prostration, sitting and so forth, she should keep her body close together and not expose herself to men who may see her. [/color] |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| assing |
| 12/26/01 at 18:10:02 |
| Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud Deen Al Albaanee says: All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet's prayer (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), "Pray as you have seen me praying", includes women. This is the view of Ibraaheem an-Nakh'i, who said, "A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's" - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him. Also, Bukhaari reported in at-Taareekh as-Sagheer (p. 95) with a saheeh sanad from Umm ad-Dardaa', "that she used to sit in her prayer just as a man sits, and she was a woman of understanding." The hadeeth about the indimaam (tucking up) of a woman in prostration, and that she is in that regard not like a man, is mursal and not authentic. Abu Daawood transmitted it in al- Maraaseel on the authority of Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb. As for what Imaam Ahmad has reported, as in his son 'Abdullaah's Masaa'il, from Ibn 'Umar, that he used to instruct his wives to sit cross-legged in prayer, its sanad is not authentic, for it contains 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar al-'Amri, who is a da'eef (weak) narrator. |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| eleanor |
| 12/26/01 at 21:28:09 |
| slm Jazak Allahu Khayrun to y'all for the responses. This is what I knew all along but wanted it confirmed - thanks!! :) It's hard to know who and what to trust when it comes to learning about Islam. It's also very hard to mistrust your own husband. He however, is open to correction because as he put it himself, he only knows what he has seen and practiced; and has never studied Islam. So, Mash Allah, he says it's a learning experience for him too, as I am learning. Thanks again, a late Eid Mubarak, and take care all, wasalaam eleanor |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/26/01 at 21:33:42 |
| slm Wa iyyakum. I am happy to hear of your response and the response that your husband has taken. I know many people refuse to listen and stick to their ways, alhumdullilah its good to hear you guys have such a wonderful attitude. :) |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| Anonymous |
| 12/27/01 at 01:45:49 |
| slm sorry to intrude on your thread Eleanor but I had a question as well. Is it true that when a woman is praying that she has to have her backside covered (maybe with a wall or the like) so that her awrah isn't exposed when she goes down for ruku and sujood? The reason I'm asking is sometimes I have to pray at school. We have fixed room at my campus to pray but it's in a very inconvenient part of the building. I had a morning class one weekend and there were no open classrooms so I prayed in the hallway, but in order to face qiblah I had to pray where there was nothing behind me hence my awrah was exposed when I went down for sujood and ruku. I could've prayed with a wall behind me but there was just too many people coming and going I rather have them walk behind me than in front of me. but was that not so wise?? |
| Re: How do *you* pray? |
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| Shahida |
| 01/02/02 at 04:03:15 |
| Salaam alaikum everyone! Sis Eleanor, great question, great thread! This is a topic that always "haunts" me! Why? Because like your husband, almost evryone around here follows Imam Abu Hanifa, and since i don't, well lets just say "less than pleasant" things have been said to and about me! I remember the first time I saw the "hanafi" sisters praying, and asked my mom, why their feet faced that way, and why they didnt stand right next to each other etc etc...my mom explained that that is the way they were taught to pray, and that I should not judge them, because Imam Abu Hanifa had his reasons for teaching that way. BUT, sub7anAllah, I guess tolerance is a one-way street! Countless times I have been stopped, or worse, interrupted during my prayer, to have someone tell me that my prayer is WRONG and Allah will not accept it!!! It does not help to defend the way I pray with proof, they learned their way, and their way is the ONLY right and accepted way. There was a particularly terrible incident this last Ramadaan in the mosque... I guess the moral of the story is: do as you have researched and found is the right way, and never judge or detest others for doing differently... JazakumAllah to all those who provided the various opinions, will add them to my "arsenal" for the expected next attack (am returning to uni next week, awaiting the usuall stares and remarks at the mosque there...) Salam |
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