Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| Abd_Allah |
| 12/31/01 at 23:33:09 |
| These ayat are the backbone that the kaffir Quranites (Rashad Kalifa) believe explains their stance on not following Muhammed PBUH's example. Please let me know what the Ibn Kathir or any other authentic tafseer has to say about the reasons and the time of which these ayat were revealed. Shukrun. |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| amatullah |
| 01/01/02 at 16:22:38 |
| Bismillah and salam, Brother i started trying to translate it but it is hard. CAn you read Arabic? if yes, this where it has 4 tafseers http://quran.al-islam.com/ If you don't please let me know i will try to get you the informations to the best of my ability insha'Allah |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| se7en |
| 01/02/02 at 03:18:03 |
as salaamu alaykum, Brother Abd Allah, I took a look at those ayaat and I can't really figure out how they would use them to "prove" their case? Could you tell us what some of their arguments might be? |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| Abd_Allah |
| 01/02/02 at 17:19:45 |
| 41:44= they say that this ayat is saying that there is no need to learn the arabic language. If it is in any language it is ok, there is no need to ever go back to the arabic. This then leaves the window wide open for mistranslations. 25:25-30= this is the more important of the two. They believe that these ayat are saying that people will come and try and take you away from the true Islam by bringing forth false teachings. Then Muhammed PBUH will say "O my people have deserted the Quran", meaning to them that the people following the example of the prophet PBUH. The ayat are actually 25-33. THe 33rd ayat which states translation "And no example or similtude do they bring (to oppose or to find fault in you or in this Quran) but WE reveal to you the truth (against that similtude or example) and the better explanation thereof." They say this is speaking of Hadith. Inshallah this made it a little clearer. Please let me know if it hasnt. |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| akbalkhan |
| 01/02/02 at 19:11:42 |
| As Salamu Alayka Brother Muhammed, I do not have any tafsir with any Quran I have. I do not even know the permissability of providing any interpretations other than agreed upon. At the risk of sounding stupid, or stepping all over a scholars interpretation, let me proceed with caution and with the openness to criticism and a change in understanding. Regarding Ayah 44, in Surah Fussilat; the title of the Surah should be some indication throughout of the backdrop of the ayat. Fussilat, according to some Surah name translations, means 'clear' and/or 'detailed explanation.' Let me provide the full English translation: Had We sent this as a Qu'ran(in a language) other than Arabic, they would Have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! a foreign (tongue) and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: " It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!" I do not know if the original question refers to what if the Quran had been brought to a people other than Arabs, but in Arabic, and how they would have doubted it on that account, and not understood its meanings and explanations (I am not so sure about this interpretation). Or if the question refers to the scenario where what if the Quran was given to the Prophet SAWS, but in a different language than Arabic, so then the next questions are "What! a foreign (tongue/language) and an Arab (Messenger)?" Thereby the formidable task of bringing a recitation to an already illiterate people is made the harder by it being in a different language as well, perhaps a language of earlier revelation. So, those who question the Quran on the account that the language of revelation has shifted to Arabic, may have used this as yet another reason not confirm the Prophethood and Messengership of Muhammed, SAWS. The Ayah possibly referring to the certain confusion and doubt that would have formed, even for the receptive, about why a revelation came in a different language than Arabic, but to an Arab. In either scenario it seems clear that the point of the Ayah is to convey the message that the Messenger was chosen from among the Arabs, and therefore to cause the least confusion and suspicion, and to make the message as clear as possible, the Arabic language was selected as the language of revelation, regardless of previous revelation languages. The two ayat before and after it also may give a clue as to the meaning. Ayah 43 says that "Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the messengers before thee:..." and Ayah 45 says: "We certainly gave Moses the Book aforetime:..." Both referring to previous revelations, opening the possibility or fact that the revelations prior were to different people, in different languages. Along the blood line of Ibrahim, Alayhis salam, there may have been very similar revelation languages, considering the many messengers and prophets that came from his people. But ayah 45 says about the book given to Moses, alayhis salam: "but disputes arose therein..." So regardless of the language or the people, there are always those who find some dispute in the revelation. Again, forgive me if I have gone to far in thinking that I could understand ayat from the Quran, as surely the truth and diligence rests with the Ulema. If I have said something out of line or wrong please correct me, and may Allah SWT have mercy on me. I will gladly delete the post and try to amend whatever I can for possibly misguiding others on the interpretation of the noble Reading. I sincerely am trying to aid you in understanding how the Ayat can never be totally safe from the disputation of the unbeliever, only a guidance and healing for the believers. My aim is certainly not to cause more disputation. Insha'Allah, if this goes over well I will attempt to put up the other ayat you asked about. But I see no mention or indication of anything in the ayat mentioned above that suggest that it does not matter what language the revelation came it, for certainly it mattered for issues of clarity and ease of understanding, preservation, and belief, and surely all truth rests with Allah SWT alone. Regards, QAK |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| Abd_Allah |
| 01/03/02 at 01:17:07 |
| alhumdulillah i kind of see what your saying and appreciate the input. But inshallah I would like some type of authentic hadith regarding the ayat. Shukrun for the input salaamz |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
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| se7en |
| 01/03/02 at 04:20:12 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah :) [quote]41:44= they say that this ayat is saying that there is no need to learn the arabic language. If it is in any language it is ok, there is no need to ever go back to the arabic. This then leaves the window wide open for mistranslations.[/quote] Ahhhh, okay. Now I understand :) 41:44 says what means: [color=black] Had We sent this as a Qurán (in a language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! a foreign (tongue) and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!" [/color] From this ayah they conclude that the Qur'an was not revealed in Arabic because of any special or distinctive qualities of the Arabic language, but simply because Arabic was the language of the people. Therefore, they argue, the Qur'an in the language of the people - no matter what that language may be - is what's appropriate. That's an interesting argument :) However, taking this opinion overlooks the many other ayaat that talk about the Arabic language. There are other ayaat that specifically mention the Qur'an being revealed *in Arabic*. If Arabic had no special significance, I don't think this emphasis would be there. The ayaat that mention Arabic are: 12:2, 13:37, 16:103, 20:113, 26:195, 39:28, 41:3, 42:7, 43:3, 46:12, and the above mentioned ayah from al Fussilat. Another thing that's overlooked here is that translations can never truly *translate* - that is, express completely and exactly what the original states. They are, by nature, an approximation of the meaning since words and ideas cannot be expressed identically in different languages. Never is a translation able to capture the connotations particular words hold, or the rhythm of sound of the original language. There is meaning not just in the ideas the Qur'an expresses, but also in the actual order of its words and letters, and the sounds they signify. In order to get a full understanding of the Qur'anic message, you *have* to read it in the original Arabic. [quote]25:25-30= this is the more important of the two. They believe that these ayat are saying that people will come and try and take you away from the true Islam by bringing forth false teachings. Then Muhammed PBUH will say "O my people have deserted the Quran", meaning to them that the people following the example of the prophet PBUH.[/quote] [color=black] The Day the heaven shall be rent asunder with clouds, and angels shall be sent down, descending (in ranks),- That Day, the dominion right by, shall be (wholly) for the Most Gracious: it will be a Day of dire difficulty for the Misbelievers. The Day that the wrong-doer will bite at his hands, he will say, "Oh! Would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Messenger! Ah! Woe is me! Would that I had never taken such a one for a friend! He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! The Satan is but a traitor to man!" Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people treated this Qurán with neglect." (25-30) [/color] Yes, ayah 30 refers to treating the Qur'an with neglect. But that's a fairly broad statement. It says nothing in particular about taking the hadeeth in it's place, or anything like that. That's an intepretation, an assumption made by people. If you want to argue with the texts, you gotta *use* what the texts actually say :) But if you want argue this way, if you look at ayah 27 it mentions those who refuse to take "a straight path with the Messenger". According to Ibn Kathir, this means those who "rejected the path of the Messenger [saw] and what he brought from Allah of clear truth, concerning which there is no doubt, and followed another path." Meaning, those who rejected not just the Qur'an, but the sunnah as well. [quote]The ayat are actually 25-33. THe 33rd ayat which states translation "And no example or similtude do they bring (to oppose or to find fault in you or in this Quran) but WE reveal to you the truth (against that similtude or example) and the better explanation thereof." They say this is speaking of Hadith. [/quote] [color=black] Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners: but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help. Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qurán revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. And no question do they bring to thee but We reveal to thee the truth and the best explanation (thereof). (31-33)[/color] Again, taking this opinion overlooks all the other ayaat on the same subject. How do they reconcile their interpretation of this ayah with the first five ayahs of an-Najm, that clearly state that what Rasulullah [saw] says is part of wahy [revelation]? Or the ayah in an-Nahl that states that the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad [saw] so that he can explain it to the people? You have to look at *all* the ayahs that deal with a particular subject in order to get a complete understanding of it and before you can draw conclusions about it. I don't think the solution here is to look at the tafseer of these specific ayahs, but to understand them in the context of all the other ayahs that deal with the same subject. Hope this is of help inshaAllah :) wAllahu a'lam. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah |
| Re: ayat 41:44 and 25:25-30...can someone give me a tafseer of these ayat |
|---|
| Abd_Allah |
| 01/03/02 at 11:55:12 |
| this does help alot. I have been using the same sources from Al Quran to counter their bogus arguement and these Kaffirs have been beating around the bush and just giving the ayat about deserting the Quran. So I think I have said enough to them and it is ALLAH who guides and ALLAH who allows one to be misguided. Shukrun for all of your help. May we meet in Jannah...Ameen Abd_ALLAH |
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