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| What should Gujarat Muslims do? |
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| mujaahid |
| 03/03/02 at 11:49:00 |
| [slm] We've seen the recent disgraceful behaviour of the hindu's towards the muslims in the Gujarat Area. According to the Observer paper, this was supported by the indian state, including the police AND military who stood by and done nothing to stop the rioters. Therefore the muslims were basically defencless. So in light of this, what should the 150 million indian muslims do to protect themselves? One possible solution is to try and gain independance from hindu india, to join pakistan, not likely, but if the effort was made, anything is possible. But what about the immediate future? How do they protect themselves? I think what they need to do is form a secret guerilla army, get trianed in warfare, riot control, street fighting etc, and then form into a large secret unit, so that if trouble does seem likely, these plain clothed soldeirs, armed with light weapns, backed by snipers can surround muslim areas, villages and prevent attackers from entering, and to fight the mods from the outside of the city. The muslims in Gujarat really need to pull themselves together and organise themselves, and mujaahideen military advisors should go to these areas and start training these people. The state army will not help them in times of trouble, so the muslims should be prepared so that they can help themselves, defend themselves, their families and thier homes. The only way to do that is if they organise themselves. |
| Re: What should Gujarat Muslims do? |
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| Abdullah |
| 03/03/02 at 17:59:12 |
| asalaamu alaikum, This is a response to Brother Mujaahid... it's sort of mixed i guess, I would say its balanced: [quote author=mujaahid link=board=ummah;num=1015174141;start=0#0 date=03/03/02 at 11:49:00] [slm] We've seen the recent disgraceful behaviour of the hindu's towards the muslims in the Gujarat Area. [/quote] We have to watch how we start grouping and labelling because that's what will further the problems for everyone. A group of muslims also had very disgraceful behaviour with the train incident. But just as we say "hindus" ar killing muslims, people are saying "muslims" are killing hindus. The reason that the turnout of hindus is larger is a) they are in greater numbers naturally b) they are retaliating and are thus infuriated Of course, attacking the muslims in response was the wrongEST thing to do, like the train incident. Not all hindus are in on this, though it may seem. Where we come from, 1500 people seems large. A mob of that much is NOTHING compared to the population of the place. As well, we have not been detailed about muslim resistance/retaliation, but reports confirm that it has happened lightly in pockets of the town(s). The governemtn and large organizations like VHP are th culprits here. [/quote] [quote] According to the Observer paper, this was supported by the indian state, including the police AND military who stood by and done nothing to stop the rioters. Therefore the muslims were basically defencless. [/quote] True, the police didn't come in because they would be killed. The numbers are way too much to handle. Recently, mobs attacked the police stations and battled with police. Police have shot 81 dead. The military however is not giving the same response, so let's not confuse the two. Under the military, as far as i know, crowds disperse and curfew is on. Obviously there is som slipping through the cracks there as well. The bad thing is how muslims areas of town are placed on curfews while hindu places are roaming around free because they can't control them. [quote]So in light of this, what should the 150 million indian muslims do to protect themselves?[/quote] Firstly, don't retaliate, and especially especially Don't start doing a wave of terrorist style attacks like burning trains. That shouldn't have happened to begin with. [quote]One possible solution is to try and gain independance from hindu india, to join pakistan, not likely, but if the effort was made, anything is possible.[/quote] Won't happen, and you're right that its unlikely. I don't even know if its the right thing to do. [quote]But what about the immediate future? How do they protect themselves? I think what they need to do is form a secret guerilla army, get trianed in warfare, riot control, street fighting etc, and then form into a large secret unit, so that if trouble does seem likely, these plain clothed soldeirs, armed with light weapns, backed by snipers can surround muslim areas, villages and prevent attackers from entering, and to fight the mods from the outside of the city. [/quote] Good idea, but don't forget these muslims live WITH the hindus, sometimes side by side, so there's no separate covert activity possible. Intelligence would moniter them too heavily. I don't think militarizing the muslims to the point of a guerilla army is the solution to this. It just gives us a bad name I feel and can be taken out of hand. Maybe something small scale is better. [quote] The muslims in Gujarat really need to pull themselves together and organise themselves, and mujaahideen military advisors should go to these areas and start training these people. The state army will not help them in times of trouble, so the muslims should be prepared so that they can help themselves, defend themselves, their families and thier homes. [/quote] The muslims there, once they be like the Palestinians brothers and sisters, like hard-core jihadis, then they might be good a resisting. See, Indian muslims aren't hard-core oppressed other than these times, and so they don't have a knack for fighting back. If there was hard core state oppression like in Israel, then I say either a migration to Pakistan again. India I feel won't start to hardcore oppress them, never will I feel, but if they did suicide bombing seems to be a good option at those desperate times. [quote]The only way to do that is if they organise themselves. [/quote] That's the problem. Indian muslims are unorganized, uneducated, mostly living in poverty, for the large part. It is hard to hear, I'm sorry, but I feel its true. We must educate ourselves, invest in forwarding ourselves if we are to "keep up". Although it is sad we have to "keep up" its the only way to keep alive. Musharraf (I know you won't liek this brother) said the eact same thing today and urged muslim states to invest in technology for educating muslims. I also feel the way we protest has to change, if we want to be heard. Violence is not the best way. Instead of a train, we could have had a march, a sit down, or at least gathering at Ayodhya. See how many hindus converged there? Why didn't we do that? We must be cool-headed, smart, tactful, and think peacefully. World attention does count here. Those are my thoughts at least, Allah Subhana forgive me if I'm wrong for saying anything here. asalamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
| Re: What should Gujarat Muslims do? |
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| momineqbal |
| 03/03/02 at 18:40:49 |
| [slm], While brother mujahid response seems to be a natural one for muslims who undoubtedly are outraged. But as Brother Abdullah said they will not work! Let me tell you some of my perspectives having lived in a communally sensitive part of India all my life until recently. I don't know if brother Abdullah has lived in India. If he has not then some of his responses are perhaps expected. I agree with a lot of them though. First, frankly speaking I don't think the actual truth about the train massacre would ever come out. It could have been a lot of things going on there and I know no one will ever talk about the details there. Whenever these riots are concerned I just do not believe the news media ever, period. Its *always* far from the truth. Frankly speaking in such cases even eye witnesses might not be able to tell you the correct story. Its very very hard for me to believe that even the most un-educated muslims in India would attack women and children. But anyways, there are black sheep in any community and to get a mob of people with criminal mentality is very easy in India given the density of population and the "dadagiri" mentality of quite a lot of people. Second, in absolutely every single rioting that takes place in India you can be sure that police will either be a spectator or they would kill muslims in the name of dispersing the mobs. There have been scores of people arrested related to all this and you can be sure most are muslims. So I wouldn't be surprised at the report of all this being state sponsored. BJP/VHP/Bajrang Dal are all one at grassroots at least. So to me it doesn't make any difference really if the BJP is in power. They will restrain themselves only in case of negative publicity they might get with the media or if they have a bigger plot in mind. I dont believe that police can not control just 2000 people. Its not a lot by indian standards. It is outright lie to say police found themselves inadequate in numbers. Besides police every state has a RAF (rapid action force) especially for these kinds of riots. I never even heard of them. But oh well, this is not even an issue here as I wouldn't expect police to protect muslims ever (except in southern India, where things are different). I agree with brother Abdullah that muslims just should not retaliate meaning they don't go do a planned attack on non-muslims who have not come to attack them. Otherwise of course they have to fight people who are attacking them since their Shahadat is certain in such cases, so why not die taking some kaafirs with you. Retailiation would just result in a few hindus killed and then multiple times muslims getting butchered. After things cool down inshaAllah muslim organisations will start the relief work. The governement might announce some money to be paid to people but don't expect it to reach them at all (I dont even expect the relatives people who died in the train to get the money that has already been announced for them)! The only option for muslims is having mighty sabr for Allah knows all their plottings and its just a matter of time before His wrath takes them by surprise. Lot of muslims might have a re-awakening of their faith after this inshaAllah and they will thus rebuild their community and do a *lot* of Da'wah. Those are the only things they can do at this point of time and they are most important things. There is absolutely no way muslims of India can fight militarily. They need to reach a position of strength even though it might be miniscule strength compared to the apparent strength of the unbelievers. Right now you cannot use the word strength with respect to the muslim community. Anyways, I have a lot more to say, but inshaAllah sometime later. Wassalam Eqbal |
| 03/03/02 at 19:53:05 |
| momineqbal |
| Re: What should Gujarat Muslims do? |
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| Abdullah |
| 03/03/02 at 20:10:41 |
| asalamu alaikum, although living here, I have gone back periodically during my childhood and lived in Lucknow and Muzzafarnagar, a mainly muslim town. I just spent a while there this summer and saw what was going on, as well my family is very political over there (I don't know if you know what RSS is and of course, BJP). Coming from a hindu family, I'd like to think I have a balanced view of what goes on. If you disagree with me, kindly express and we can talk about it. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
| Re: What should Gujarat Muslims do? |
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| Faiz |
| 03/04/02 at 22:54:01 |
| [slm] I absolutely agree with Brother Eqbal. violence is not the solution out here. i am from Bombay where we witnessed the worst communal riots in Indian history in 1992. and alhamdulillah, i have seen Muslims from Bombay change after those riots. earlier the pattern was very simple - the extremist sections of the Hindus would go on provoking the Muslims (the build-up to the Babri Masjid demolition, Advani's rath yatra) and some incident would happen to rouse the emotions of Muslims (6th Dec - the demolition) and then some hot headed muslim youths would snap and do something stupid. and that is all the like of Shiv Sena and VHP want. some pretext to go on a killing spree. and i am really sorry to disagree with you Bro Abdullah, the authorities are hand-in-glove with the rioters. the Justice ShriKrishna Commision (established to probe into the Bombay riots) has proven that beyond doubt in Bombay. i can go on and on...as you can see...i am very emotional about this. coz i have suffered too. but i have a different point to make here. after the riots in Bombay, the Muslims organized themselves (aided by friendly Hindus) and found these Mohalla Committees. you know when a child burns his fingers, he doesn't go near something hot very soon :) over the years the Muslims here have realised the importance of having a duniyawi education along with their deeni taleem. they have now learnt not to give in to provocation and be strong and bear it coz as Islam teaches us, sabr is a virtue. i think it is to the credit of these Muslim brethren in Bombay that they controlled their emotions and no untoward incident happened in Bombay. Alhamdulillah! i think Muslims all over India should realise what the folks in Bombay did a decade back. and that is the only solution. and Insha'Allah one day Allah SWT will give us justice!! on a different note, i think Bro Abdullah is a very interesting person here. you say your entire family is hindu and that you're even related to Vajpayee. that is really interesting. if you haven't done it already (i am new to this msg board) would you mind sharing your experience? :) [wlm] Faiz |
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