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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| whoami |
| 03/04/02 at 02:23:53 |
| Assalam Aleikum, I was wondering whether any of you have read the English translation of the quran by Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Muhammad T. Al-Hilali. I ask because a friend of mine has shown an interest in reading this translation (which was given to him as a present). I don't want him to read some poor translation and put off the whole exercise. I know there are some bad English translations out there and I was hoping this was not one of them. Having said that, I myself read the commentary by Maududi and it is excellent. The following translation (by MM.Muhsin and MTHilali) of some verses of Surah Rahman (I just happened to review this surah) bother me: ------- 72. Houris (beautiful, fair females) restrained in pavilions; 73. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? 74. Whom no man or jinn yatmithhunna (has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse) before them. 75. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? ------- The translation seems too "carnal" in its interpretation, don't you think? Compare this to these three translations: ------ 055.074 YUSUFALI: Whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;- PICKTHAL: Whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them - SHAKIR: Man has not touched them before them nor jinni. 055.075 YUSUFALI: Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?- PICKTHAL: Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny? SHAKIR: Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny? ------- I think the latter translations are more "graceful". (wallahu a'lam). I would like to hear your personal opinions about this translation. Jazak'allah Khair. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Taalibatul_ilm |
| 03/04/02 at 04:34:50 |
| [slm] The aayah that you are referring to has been very literally translated from Arabic, and although as you said "carnal", it is accurate. The Hilali translation of the meaning of the Qur'an is pretty good on the whole, but there will always be faults with all translations of the meanings,since they are done by humans. Another good one is the one by Saheeh International. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| M.F. |
| 03/04/02 at 09:14:30 |
| [slm] I agree that the Hilali translation may not be the best translation to give someone who's learning about Islam or who's just discovering it. It's a good book for someone who's already a Muslim and who wants to read a translation that's very literal and largely based on tafseer, but it's a little too advanced I think for someone who's just learning about Islam. The Yusuf Ali translation is probably the best for da'wa purposes wallahu a'lam. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| eleanor |
| 03/05/02 at 16:42:56 |
| [slm] I agree.. Yusuf Ali or Marmaduke Pickthall. As a matter of fact I would have preferred to have started with Pickthall's since it is easier to read and doesn't have arabic in it, meaning you can read it without Wudhu. Some of the Yusuf Ali translations can be a bit heavy, commentary likewise.. it's a matter of opinion of course :-* wasalaam eleanor |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| mymacsys |
| 03/05/02 at 17:42:28 |
| [slm] I usually recommend Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation of the Qur'an. That is, if the person wants one copy. If he/she wants to make comparisons, then the next one would be Pikthall. Ultimately, when reading translations, just remember that it is a translation, and that the growth of your knowledge of the Qur'an is at the mercy of the translators. Someone mentioned to me Muhammad Asad's translation. Anyone heard about/read this translation? [wlm] -mymacsys |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Marcie |
| 03/05/02 at 19:59:24 |
| [color=Teal] [slm] Just a quick question, Eleanor. Do you meant that you make wuhdu every time that you read the Quran in English? ??? I used to do this, but then I was told that wuhdu was not necesary, because I was reading the Quran in English and that is only a translation, even if it has both Arabic and English. Do you have any info on this one for me? Jazakum Allah Khair. :-* [wlm] Marcie :-)[/color] |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/05/02 at 20:10:49 |
| [slm] I strongly suggest that you don't give the Hilali/Muhsin translation to your friend if they are not Muslim. I have had converts tell me how difficult it was for them to be attracted to the Qur'an while reading that translation, and then how the whole taste of the Qur'an changed completely when they started reading Yusuf Ali or Pickthall! BTW, this is how the Fatihah is translated in the Hilali translation. Do you really want this to be the first thing that a Christian reads?: 6. Guide us to the Straight Way 7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians) Of course what is written is not wrong. But is this really the first thing you want your Christian friend to read when he has *just* started to take interest in Islam, and wants to know what it has to say about things in general? As someone said, I think this translation is intended more for a Muslim audience. There's also a lot of terminology and stuff that will make the non-Muslim confused, having no background knowledge about such things. Wallahu a'lam. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| whoami |
| 03/06/02 at 03:54:50 |
| Jazak'allah Khair for all the advice. I wanted to add that this friend of mine is, alhamd'lillah, Muslim. I should not judge him, but he is a little confused when it comes to many Islamic concepts. Lately, he has been reviewing a lot of other religions and trying to read the Hilali translation as well. He was asking me whether it's a good translation but I didn't reply because I'm not sure myself. On another note, has anyone had a Muslim friend/acquaintance whose Iman has actually declined after Sept 11? Istagfirullah, I actually know a person who has become atheist after 9-11! May Allah protect us and our loved ones from such a tragedy. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| jannah |
| 03/06/02 at 04:14:55 |
| [slm] whoami 9-11 was certainly a weeding out process.... some muslims stood strong and stepped up to the plate, others kind of slunked away....i think those who did, did not have real faith to begin with...perhaps they were only following islam culturally or thought they believed in it, but when it came down to it...they changed their minds.... i don't see how 9/11 can weaken a person's iman though? muslims did nothing wrong and we are banding together to defend our deen. so many people have been reaching out to islam and trying to understand. i mean it's really crazy... just check out this article of how people are starting to realize how little they know about the rest of the world and islam... http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/27/stupidity/index.html other people who weren't so into islam have come out to the forefront to fight for what's right because they realized they can't sit on the fence any longer... (can't hide a muslim name or brown skin anymore) so in the long run i think we should believe this to be a test or trial for our generation. it might seem like we have the worst one eh...but looking back on history you'd be surprised...other people have gone through worse trials...can you imagine how our grandparents felt when the khalifate was being carved up in front of their eyes.. .or how much of a struggle it was to fight against colonialism...or even what others are going through today... people fighting for their family and country, being bombed and starved out of existence, drowned in basements.... so what is our trial really? |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| eleanor |
| 03/06/02 at 06:33:38 |
| [slm] I've heard it said often enough, that if the Qur'an you are reading from also has the Arabic in it, then you must have Wudhu before touching it, let alone read it. Now you've gotten me really confused ??? I never made Wudhu to specifically read the Qur'an, but I wouldn't read it unless I had Wudhu. Now I have Pickthall's translation, which is smaller and paperback, and it's just so much easier and more accessible. wasalaam eleanor :-* |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| M.F. |
| 03/06/02 at 07:04:20 |
| [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=madrasa;num=1015226633;start=0#6 date=03/05/02 at 20:10:49][slm] BTW, this is how the Fatihah is translated in the Hilali translation. Do you really want this to be the first thing that a Christian reads?: 6. Guide us to the Straight Way 7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians) .[/quote] That's the precise reason why I wouldn't give that translation to a non-Muslim. The first thing they'll read is something against them. And they won't be able to distinguish what's actually in the Qur'an and what's from the tafseer. They might be led to believe that we say that the Christians have gone astray every time we pray... A simple translation is much better. Little snippets of tafseer here and there might be more harmful than good. And the translation of words such as Azzalimun (with a long parentheses explaning who they are and why they're zalimun etc etc) and al mushrikun every single time in the Hilali translation get kind of annoying after a while |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/06/02 at 13:11:39 |
| [slm] Eleanor, there might be some difference of opinion on this, Allah knows best, but as far as I've read from most scholars, you don't need to have wudoo to touch the Qur'aan if the Qur'aan is not an Arabic-only Qur'aan. So a Yusuf Ali translation is ok to touch and read from without wudoo. The only types of Qur'aan that require wudoo are 'mus-hafs', i.e. pure Qur'ans that *only* have the Word of Allah in them (i.e. in Arabic). P.S. Scholars say that even tafseers in Arabic are ok to touch, because they are not all Qur'an. They have human writing mixed with the Qur'aan. Wassalamu alaikum warahmatullah. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/06/02 at 13:20:29 |
| [slm] Every translation of the Quran has their problems, and that's why I recommend to people when they ask me, is to get a tafsir of the Quran, specifically Ibn Kathir's tafsir. Here is an explanation of every translation of the Quran in the english language: http://members.cox.net/ameer1/annota.html |
| 03/06/02 at 13:23:24 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Abd_al-Rashid |
| 03/07/02 at 07:57:42 |
| [slm] All praise is due to Allah who has guided us to the straight path. I would like to comment on the following: [quote]nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians) Of course what is written is not wrong.[/quote] So what is the problem? It is a fundamental aspect of our belief that the Christians have gone astray. Furthermore, their own scholarly research confirms this. Ask any Christian to explain to you in simple terms the concept of the trinity, they won't because they can't. They'll either take the catholic approach (it doesn't have to make sense, you just have to believe) or the protestant approach (the analogy of the egg) both of which are easily refuted in the Qur'an., which for us is sufficient. But obviously as Christians they don't accept the Qur'an, so what you do is point them to their own bible where it is reported that Jesus alaihi salatu wa salaam said "I work not except through the will of the father" which is also a core Islamic belief (nothing happens except through the will of Allah). At this point it's wise to explain to them why we don't call Allah "father" Then of course we also ask them to study the history of their religion and how it came about. This way they will learn that Paul never met Jesus alaihi salatu wa salaam, and that the earliest written gospel was written approximately 80 years after his ascension, and also the story of emperor Constantine and the council of Nice in the year 323, where the concept of trinity was made official church doctrine. [quote]The first thing they'll read is something against them.[/quote] How is that against them? Allah and Rasul [saw] have told us numerous times why and how the Christians went astray, among them the fact that they clearly disobeyed when they took their prophet as an object of worship, their own bible tells them not to make let alone worship idols, it tells them Allah is one, and so on. I have no problem telling Christians any of this. Sometimes they try to counter it with the text in the bible that mentions trinity, but again all you have to do is turn pages and there it is, clear as day "God is one&quop; And what I always advise them to do is READ, research, ask their priests. Regarding the issue of translations, I know a brother who started off reading a qadiani Qur'an and now he is Muslim alhamdulilah. Allah is the one that gives guidance, it doesn't matter what translation we give them. It's ok if you don't want to give them a Hilali translation, personally I do it and this is because I find them very beneficial with the tafsir and ahadith that give background as to why and when certain ayat were revealed. So we do our part and leave the guidance to Allah. [wlm] |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| boy |
| 03/07/02 at 19:05:57 |
| [quote author=El Musulman link=board=madrasa;num=1015226633;start=0#13 date=03/07/02 at 07:57:42] [slm] All praise is due to Allah who has guided us to the straight path. I would like to comment on the following: So what is the problem[wlm] [/quote] Salamz The problem is that this is added into the textual translation kf the Quran. It might be absolutely correct, however, Allah did not put it there. Hence there must be some wisdom why. It would be best to respect that and include such commentary in tafseers or any other detailed explanatory work instead of using it in a translation thats widely used for dawah purposes. Personally I use the Mawdudi translation. I wouldn't really recommend it to others though, because its a translation of a translation. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| jannah |
| 03/07/02 at 19:57:41 |
| [quote]Allah is the one that gives guidance, it doesn't matter what translation we give them.[/quote] [slm] el musulman, it's true Allah is the one that guides but it is also Allah who said: Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance (Quran 16:125) wisdom would be if we really consider what would help them to understand islam in the best way and not cause any doubts or problems in their mind before they could truly see its message. the sad or interesting thing about our times now is that people are coming to islam just because they have read the Quran. one famous example of this is yusuf islam. he met no muslims, he was given a quran and read it. in the past, muslims have come to islam because they saw islam embodied in the people they met and wanted to know it's source. one famous example of this is muhammad asad. he lived and travelled throughout the muslim world before becoming muslim. if we just say, well Allah guides and just leave everyone to it, we haven't done our job. we are the appointed khalifa on the earth that should be working hard to help others understand what islam is about. and we should go about it in the way of wisdom and beautiful preaching --beautiful words.. the amazing thing about arabic is that no language can encompass it, it stands alone. the quran is not the quran if it is not in it's revealed language. We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran, in order that ye may learn wisdom. (Quran 12:2) so when people are reading the translation of the meaning of the quran there will be a lot of differences -- it is not the quran -- and humans will choose to interpret things differently, choose different words, different examples. therefore, all translations are not the same thing at all. so then why choose one book over another as a favorite? why choose one book over another to give to someone? that is the key. and that's why it's good to have a discussion on what translation is better to give to someone who does not know anything about islam, to one who does, or to one who knows arabic etc. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Mohja |
| 03/07/02 at 19:59:25 |
| [slm] [quote] The problem is that this is added into the textual translation of the Quran. It might be absolutely correct, however, Allah did not put it there. [/quote] Good point boy! I personally think that a translation should be as close as possible to the original Qur'an because that's how Allah[swt] revealed His message. And if He choose not to discuss the issue of ahlul kitab in surah Al-Fatiha then we shouldn't mess with it. There are other surah's like Aali Imran that talk about that in the propper manner and detail. Also when you start giving examples for ayats in the Qur'an that were meant to be general, you run the risk of taking away from that generality so that a muslim reader might be led to think that only those people are astray instead of looking to see if the statement applies to one's self! As boy said there's a wisdom why things are the way they are. |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| flyboy_nz |
| 03/09/02 at 05:37:53 |
| [slm] I've read a bit of the Muhammad Asad translation and its excellent- very easy to read and so is ideal to give to a non-muslim.. I personally find the Yusuf Ali translation difficult to read because of the style of language, however the Muhammad Asad translation seems to flow very well, so yeah its recommended. [wlm] Ahmed |
| Re: Translation of Quran by Dr. Muhsin: |
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| Abd_al-Rashid |
| 03/09/02 at 09:27:02 |
| [slm] I am now looking at Surat al-Fatihah in the Hilali translation and I see the following: 7- The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace [4] not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger [5] (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). [1], [2], [3] The numbers in brackets are footnotes, which are hadith. Footnote 5 says the following: "Narrated Adi bin Hatim radhi Allahu anhu: I asked Allah's Messenger [saw] about the statement of Allah: Gharil Maghdubi alaihim (not the way of those who earned your anger). He [saw] replied "They are the Jews." And: walad dalin (nor of those who went astray). He [saw] replied: The Christians, and they are the ones who went astray." [This hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidi and Abu Dawud]" Like I mentioned, it's OK if you don't want to use this translation, and I'm not saying I prefer this one over the others. It just so happened that we were sent a number of them and we passed them out at the dawah table. In the past I have reccomended the Yusuf Ali and Pickthall as well. I wish someone had given me a Qur'an, any Qur'an, when I was studying Islam. I had to wait until I took shahadah to get a Pickthall version from the masjid. I used to read the ones at Barnes and Noble called "The Koran" written by non-muslim authors. That's why I said, give them one, any version, whatever you prefer. [wlm] |
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