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Against Islamic Schools

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Against Islamic Schools
Chris
03/14/02 at 09:10:06
I could'nt keep track of the discussion below, so I have started a new one.  

I personly think that having special islamic schools is a mistake, perticuly in countires where Muslims are in the Minority.  

As most of you have guessed  ;) I'm not Muslim myself, and until I was in university, knew few muslims personly, most of whom were not the nicest people.  I tended to regard muslims with suspiction.  This attitude might make things difficult, but I was blessed with good 'teachers' and learnt more about Islam from them.  If all the Muslims are seperate, WHO IS GOING TO LEARN THAT THE 'if you prick me, do I not bleed' rule applies to Muslims too.  Don't talk about logic,  ;D racists are not known for theirs.  

After September 11th, this is going to be more important.  

If you are a Muslim, I suppose that learning the Qua'ran is important to you, but you should be able to read it on your own, not being forced to do so.  I always hated being forced to read it myself, and I see no reason why others should not.  Faith is always a personal matter, it should not be in schools, how many brains will be crupted by being spoon-fed the Qua'ran rather than discovering it for themselves?  Learning to respect the opposite sex won't be helped if the classes are seperate.

Can muslim schools, in britain at least, offer an equivilent education to a public school?  Knowning your catashim is important, but it won't help you get a job.

Ah well, comments?

Peace

Chris

Chris
Re: Against Islamic Schools
Laboogie
03/14/02 at 11:22:06
Sup Chris

Aight Im going to have to disagree with u not only because Im a Muslim but also  because Im a future educator.

[quote]I personly think that having special islamic schools is a mistake, perticuly in countires where Muslims are in the Minority. [/quote]

But its ok to have catholic schools?? nah bro, I dont think so....what about the specialized schools that we have for art, gifted students, students who have disabilities, etc...of course we want to integrate these schools and that is a educational movement that is going on now....but I dont think that b/c we are a 'minority' we should't have schools..what about the historical black schools?----what happens when u go overseas, and u are the minority...are u going to put your child in the 'international/american' school or the village school? if u are the minority in a country where the majority are muslim or u going to put your child in the regular schools? or go and seek for the american/non-islamic school????


[quote]If all the Muslims are seperate, WHO IS GOING TO LEARN THAT THE 'if you prick me, do I not bleed' rule applies to Muslims too.  Don't talk about logic,   racists are not known for theirs. [/quote]

Ok, thats not going to happen, that All Muslims are going to be in Islamic schools...lets be realistic here----u do find ppl who would love this idea though, but I personally dont think its a great one.....
The goal is not to have a 'separate but equal' society but to make sure that Islam is practiced to the best of its ability


[quote]   If you are a Muslim, I suppose that learning the Qua'ran is important to you, but you should be able to read it on your own, not being forced to do so.  I always hated being forced to read it myself, and I see no reason why others should not.  Faith is always a personal matter, it should not be in schools, how many brains will be crupted by being spoon-fed the Qua'ran rather than discovering it for themselves? [/quote]

 Ok, like many books out there u need guidance, assistances in reading them...and one of those books is the Qur'an, as well as  the Bible and the Torah, just to name a few.....nothing should be forced on to you, I totally agree with you, b/c I know I dont like ppl telling me what to do, but it depends how they tell me and why they are telling me.....but anyways in Islam you are not suppose to be FORCED to do anything, but you do have ppl who force it upon their children, spouses, friends, etc...and this can be detrimental...
----The overall goal of an Islamic school (those that are run properly) should be to guide their students in helping them understand Islam, be mentors, teachers, not dicators....
----Another reason  is to help those students who are not receive islamic education at home to get it at school....a lot of times u find that parents are not able to provide that islamic background to their child and they want to do want is best for their child.
------what about all the stuff that we are taught in school, do we need most of it to survive???? Dont u remember sitting in class and asking the teacher "why do I need to learn this?" and these are the things that are 'spoon-fed' to us


[quote]Learning to respect the opposite sex won't be helped if the classes are seperate. [/quote]
And those classes that co-ed, u find repect there???? yeah ok, I dont think so...you know the discrimination that goes on in co-ed classrooms??? its not even funny....there was a time that you found that male students were called on more then females, this practice is dying out but its still out there will and kicking....

---I attend an all women's college and its not Islamic...regular all white american women's college and I think that coming here I learned A LOT ...one thing that I noticed is that we(the students here) go to classes in PJs, we dont worry about how we look, flip flops and everything....NOW u go to SUNY Albany, which is a co-ed university and u see how women go to school...I ask myself hold up they going to school or they going clubbing???ummmm

----But it all depends on how the school is being run regardless if its an islamic school or not. If you do attend an islamic school, you need to make sure that u are reciving the tools that u need to survive in this society, the curriculm will of course cater to the audience, which will be Muslim Americans....and this goes to other schools...they need to accomodate the diversity within their schools......




So those are my 2 pennies, I could give 25 cents but I gotta pay the bills ;)
Peace
Laboogie
Re: Against Islamic Schools
Dawn
03/14/02 at 11:26:25
Chris,

Read   Abu_Hamza's post near the bottom of page 2 or Umm_Abdul_Haqq's post about half-way down page 3 of the previous discussion for Muslim "opposing" opinions (though that would be for sending a child there, not for the existence of such schools, per se).  

Dawn
03/14/02 at 11:36:38
Dawn
Re: Against Islamic Schools
zomorrud
03/14/02 at 12:36:39
[color=Blue]Chris,

There are a number of important reasons warranting the need for Islamic schools that may have been raised in the past in the thread started by Abu-Hamza. One usually overlooked purpose of Islamic schools is to educate Muslim students about the history of Islamic Civilization.  From the 7th century to early 20th century, Islamic Khilafaa (State) was a world superpower that harboured a climate of excellence culminating in innumerable contributions to modern-day math, medicine, philosophy, engineering, medicine, politicking, war strategy, music & poetry among other things. Nowhere in public schools would Muslim students be taught about the history of their ancestors and the great imprints they left behind them.  Islamic schools, among other things fulfill the need to keep Muslim students' identity intact.

take care
Mona [/color]
03/14/02 at 12:47:58
zomorrud
Re: Against Islamic Schools
eleanor
03/14/02 at 13:35:37
[slm]

Chris are you against all religious instruction in schools or just Islamic schools? And did you used to be a Muslim? Or why were you forced to read the Qur'an?

Just curious :)

And MONA!! You finally have come public :o
And Laboogie!! Awesome post!!  8)   []


wasalaam
eleanor  :-*
03/14/02 at 13:36:26
eleanor
Re: Against Islamic Schools
zomorrud
03/14/02 at 13:44:55
RATS!  I did not realize I signed my name at the end of that post until I read elanor's post!!! I'm not that good at being anonymous I guess. Am I embarrassed now or what ::)??  But let's hope that this thread is not very popular and not too many visit it - i thought of going back and editing it, but too late I guess that someone else has noticed!

Re: Against Islamic Schools
humble_muslim
03/14/02 at 14:26:08
[slm]

Well to me it's very simple.  The whole American concept of boyfriends, girlfreiends, dating, making out, flirting, etc., etc., is totally anthetical to the Islamic concept.  The Islamic concept is that no man or woman should even LOOK at someone of the opposite sex except for their spouses and close relatives.  Now although this may sound crazy to 21st century Americans, it is the foundation for the whole Islamic moral code of men-women relationships.  Now what chance do I have of getting this message across to my kids if I send them to an American school, where if you not indulge in "normal" American bevaiour, you are considered a crank ?  My 8 year old has been going to an Islamic schoool for five years, and she is still fairly innocent.  The less I talk about how innocent I was (I went to a non-Islamic school in England) when I was 8, the better.

In fact I am getting worried because some of my daughter's friends (in her Islamic school) have attended public school for years, and are now talking about certain items she is unfamiliar with.

So to me it's an easy question : do I want my kids to have American moral values, or Islamic ones ?
NS
Re: Against Islamic Schools
Jenna
03/14/02 at 18:00:07
wa'alaikum assalaam

 We as Muslims do not believe in Girlfriend/Boyfriend (as the humble Muslim said). And this is what america promotes. We do not believe in sex before marriage, yet this is what america pomotes (as long as your use 'protection' just turn on the T.V. and you will see that. This goes completely against our beliefs and so I believe it is only right we have our own facilities.

 And the Qur'aan is not 'forced' upon anyone, what we do is start teaching our child from the cradle, so it is implemented in their lives. And its just like what you do to get your child to do his homework. The children I know (I was one myself) they enjoy reading the Qur'aan & writing arabic. As I myself enjoy learning even now....

 I love my religion and applaude my mom for implementing the Qur'aan in my early childhood. I also play the Qur'aan so my son cae listen to it, and Alhumdulilah he LOVES it, sometimes he just sits down and listens. :)

Jenna  :-)
Re: Against Islamic Schools
imran
03/15/02 at 06:29:45
Chris,

Faith schools have been existing for centuaries, the Christian and Jewish faiths have setup nicely, they are performing well and yes they do dscriminate in favour of people of the faith for admittance. But now that the muslim community has manged to get on its feet and open a few schools its suddenly become so very wrong and no more of these kind of schools please.

To close the door on a parents right to choose what education is best for their children is wrong. whether or not you like it, muslim parents are queing up to pay whatever it takes to get education in a muslim friendly atmosphere that is conducive to an islamic upbringing - muslims schools. It is not about segregating communities, it is about providing value for a muslim childs education. The secular system has failed us which is why muslim children are being currently outperformed in all levels of examination - why do you want do deny us the choice.

Imran
Re: Against Islamic Schools
Noor
03/15/02 at 09:39:02
Hi Chris

Students in islamic schools are as much compelled to study the Quran as they are "forced" to study math or science in any school. If we don't leave learning ABC's and multiplication to "chance" and "interest" then why leave religion and scriptures to it?

Muslim parents want their children not only to become doctors, lawyers etc, but more importantly they want them to have a strong Muslim identity, a clear understanding of the purpose for their existence in this world , a sense of direction in life.
And as others have said, they want their children, at least in the initial formative years, to be in an environment that is as close to Islamic ideals as possible.
This of course does not mean that  islamic schools should function in a vaccum. There definitely should be interactions between them and other public and religous schools.


[quote] I knew few muslims personly, most of whom were not the nicest people.[/quote]
I'm sure you must've met ppl from other faiths also who did not appeal to you.  There are nice and not-so-nice individuals in every faith. You cannot extrapolate the behaviour of a billion plus people by the experience of a few.

Take care  
:-*


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