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A woman’s confession

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A woman’s confession
Abu_Atheek
03/16/02 at 01:59:27
[slm]

[url]http://www.arabnews.com/Static/LocalPress.asp[/url]

A woman’s confession

THE first man knocked my father’s door and proposed that he take my hand in marriage. I was in intermediate school at the time. At my mother’s insistence, I had to turn him down. He simply walked away. My mother kept whispering in my ear that I should marry a more wealthy man, reflecting my personal status.

Another groom approached my parents when I was in high school. He soon walked out for the very same reason. I learned later that my mother had turned down not only those two, but many others. The reason? Always the same: they just didn’t have enough money.

Now I am 38 years old. And I am still a single woman. I have no companion. I have no children. As time passes, my relatives, friends and neighbors believe more and more that I must be a woman who treasures my own company, that somehow I care only about my work. Others admire me for being strong, thinking that I have bravely shunned the company of men.

Oh how I wish they all knew how much I am suffering, living like this without a loving man around me. The emotional torture increases whenever I see my childhood friends happily married with children, leading a normal life. More tortuous is learning that some of my childhood friends are already grandparents. What happened to me? I was left by the wayside.

The other day I looked in the mirror. What did I see?  A withered face and sad eyes: my faded beauty. I was overtaken by a million questions: Who is going to marry me at this age? Is there someone, somewhere who could understand that I am not as strong as others think? Is there anyone who would believe that I am a female who needs a loving soul around her, and that I am ready to give up my career — which stole my youth from me, and in return gave me nothing but this awful loneliness.  Finally, I realized that a woman’s success in her career is meaningless if she is unmarried and so not a mother to a beautiful girl or boy.

— Nawal Al-Yousuf/Al-Youm
Re: A woman’s confession
Kashif
03/16/02 at 06:22:12
Crazy Parents!!!!
NS
Re: A woman’s confession
zomorrud
03/16/02 at 12:06:55
[color=Purple]assalamu alaikum

**disclaimer: this thread may be better matched to topics in the akhawat folder or the naseeha corner**

sadly, the above describes the situation of many many sisters in muslim countries.  i used to think that it would be somewhat expected in non-muslim countries for sistersr/bothers to have difficutly finding the right spouse and thus marry late. but it came as a shock to me to know that there are many women who live in muslim countries who marry late if at all.

the reasons i heard that keep women from accepting proposals are like the ones mentioned above - not being from a 'good' family, not having high enough income.  the saddest part is that the parents are the ones who incite these ideas in the minds of the daughters.  and then of course, some women watch too much soap operas or read far too many novels/magazines, that tell them what constitutes a 'good' husband, and they get these wacky ideas etc, etc.  

well, i'd like to take this discussion into another direction, if others allow it. since i know there are many- for a lack of a better phrase- 'polygymy enthusiasts' here, my question to the brothers would be: if you have the means, would you agree to marry a sister like the one who wrote the article (as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife) in order to provide her with companionship and warmth (if not love).  to the sisters, i would ask, would you have any qualms with your husband marrying someone for the purpose just mentiond, even though the unmarried sister might be older and less attractive than you?  

if we are truly muslims and care for one another, shouldn't we show rahma and mercy towards our fellow muslims and try to alleviate their problems? or is this particular situation exempt from such goodliness?

this is all hypothetical, but i think it would make a really good discussion insha'Allah :-*  <-- this should be voted as the most lovable smiley

wassalam


[/color]
Re: A woman’s confession
jannah
03/16/02 at 13:41:38

slm

[quote]Finally, I realized that a woman’s success in her career is meaningless if she is unmarried and so not a mother to a beautiful girl or boy.  [/quote]

I feel for this sister, her situation is common nowadays unfortunately.  but Islam does not teach us that our worth comes from giving birth to a beautiful girl or boy.  Her worth should be based on how she worships Allah, and her current situation may be a test for her in her patience and imaan.
Re: A woman’s confession
Kashif
03/16/02 at 14:16:38
[quote]to the sisters, i would ask, would you have any qualms with your husband marrying someone for the purpose just mentiond, even though the unmarried sister might be older and less attractive than you? [/quote]

assalaamu alaikum

I don't know if there is a purpose to asking this question as the answer is SO obvious given the reaction of sisters from similar previous discussions. This is not to say that no sisters would be accepting of their husbands taking a second such wife - but no person wants to share their spouse.

Aside from that, zomorrud (what does that mean) i do agree with what you say.

Also, jannah, what a tough, tough, .. but ultimately true thing to say!

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: A woman’s confession
zomorrud
03/16/02 at 15:15:06
assalamu alaikum

[quote]the answer is SO obvious given the reaction of sisters from similar previous discussions. This is not to say that no sisters would be accepting of their husbands taking a second such wife - but no person wants to share their spouse.  [/quote]

right, many sisters are possessive of their husbands and would never be able to live with the thought that he loves/cares for another woman (aside from his mother/sisters, and even then there are cases of jealousy   ::) ).  

but, i think many sisters are not annoyed (?) by polygymy per se, but they somehow dislike the way it is being practised now adays.  It seems that polygymy is almost 'utilized' by some brothers to basically rejuvenate their lives and reclaim their lost youth by marrying young, beautiful, previously unmarried sisters. This is especially true if the first marriage is on the rocks and instead of trying to figure out the problems and try to work on fixing them, which is admittedly a hard endeavour, instead of that, they start thinking about having a second wife, younger in most cases. This is what most sisters have a problem with, ie the (mis)use of polygymy as a loop hole, so to speak.

and the reason the question was put forth to the sisters, is because i really want to know whether they would make an exception here.  i don't think i can foretell the answer from previous discussions on this topic. i actually expect most sisters to be ok with it, because we are such 'softies' I believe ???

btw, this question is not just for married sisters. single ones are also welcome to give responses whether or not they'd approve of their [color=Red]'imaginary'[/color] husbands taking a 2nd wife in such a situation.  personally, i'd have no problems here.  

rest of the brothers, married and unmarried, what say you?  


take care
wassalam

p.s. zomorrud = emerald (as in the gem stone)
Re: A woman’s confession
BroHanif
03/16/02 at 19:20:01
[slm],

[quote]i actually expect most sisters to be ok with it, because we are such 'softies'[/quote]
I don't think so Sis Z, sisters can play the emotional card very well and they can even get to become experts at throwing the crockery and not missing at the Mr who wishes to practice polygamy.
I think, we either have sisterz who will become jealous of their husbands marrying a second or + wife or we have sisters who will stay single for the rest of their lives. I think the culture of ones society plays an important part as well, where I live I don't think so men would be able to get married to wife no +2.

I think in reality terms only those sisterz who are married would be able to answer your question. I mean it may be that sistaz agree to their imaginary husaband or future spouse marrying more than one fair lady but when she does get married she might not want her fella to be shared by someone else, sad but very true.

Salaams

H

In Dubai, where I once went it was more easy for a man and woman to commit zinah than to get married. Crazy isn't it!.
Re: A woman’s confession
Kashif
03/16/02 at 19:50:45
[quote author=zomorrud link=board=ummah;num=1016261967;start=0#5 date=03/16/02 at 15:15:06]but, i think many sisters are not annoyed (?) by polygymy per se, but they somehow dislike the way it is being practised now adays.  It seems that polygymy is almost 'utilized' by some brothers to basically rejuvenate their lives and reclaim their lost youth by marrying young, beautiful, previously unmarried sisters. [/quote]

assalaamu alaikum
Good point. I recall mentioning the issue of polygyny to a married brother and he said that he had a full intention to take another wife - BUT it would be a sister from one of the war-torn regions who perhaps has no family left support her.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: A woman’s confession
jaj
03/16/02 at 21:30:24
[slm]

my ex husband wanted to take on a second wife because i am american and he wanted a saudi wife. he wanted to take on a second wife because he [i]can[/i].

[wlm]

jaj
Re: A woman’s confession
Noor
03/17/02 at 10:08:33
[slm]

I once heard a similar story at a Friday khutbah that ended on a very chilling note.
A young woman's father would reject every proposal for the flimsiests reasons. Years passed and the girl remained single, the father became severly ill . Sitting on his death bed, the daughter says 'O my father say Ameen'. 'But to what dua?' replies the father. 'to my dua: May Allah deny you jannah just as you have denied me marriage"
:o :o :o
Re: A woman’s confession
bhaloo
03/17/02 at 10:44:15
[slm]

I think the answer is so obvious, what woman would want to share their husband with another?  Obviously there is going to be feelings of jealousy.  Bro. Hanif and Kashif are absolutely right.  
Re: A woman’s confession
xx
UmmWafi
Re: A woman’s confession
BUSHRA
03/17/02 at 11:49:51
[slm]
ok, to answer honestly whether I would be ok if my hubby took another wife my answer is ....................................................................................................................



>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( : :( :( :( :(NO  :o :o : :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Sorry.I don't think that I'm that good a sharer or that big a "softie" for that matter. But in the end I guess if he wanted to take another wife there isn't much that I could do about it and no br.Haniff I won't break crockery because I'm the one doing the cleaning ;).

My only question is would the brother be able to do justice b/w both his wives? Which means equal amount of time,caring for her needs ,physical and emotional support not to mention will he be able to support both of his wives financially? :o
If the first wife has a nice house with say a fridge /freezer , microwave , fitted bathroom or kitchen will he be able to provide the same to the second wife?(or vice versa) ???
What if he has kids from both wives , will he be able to spend some time with his kids when he comes tired from work ::) ?

The purpose of my question is not to put off brothers from getting married a second time around (if that's possible)lol , just kidding ;D...........nor to put off sisters from marrying a brother  who is married but to think well before getting into it otherwise it seems like too much heart breakto me. :(

I do know that there are examples of many happily married muslim women who enjoy the status of being a second wife and the first wife is also happy but in that case it takes a lot of effort from the husband's part.

Anyway I hope I haven't  offended anyone and if I have then I am very sorry.

BUSHRA :-)
Re: A woman’s confession
BUSHRA
03/17/02 at 12:05:54
[slm]
UMMWAFI, nice post Mashallah, :) I read it just after I posted mine and DITTO to all the points you raised but one question in particular also crossed my mind , with so many sunnahs of our beloved Prophet [saw], why is this one so much more popular with SOME brothers  ???(Disclaimer:I said SOME) .

It reminded me of a funny story that a friend told me just the other day,In a Jumma khutba Maulana TANVEER-UL-HAQ THANVI mentioned that a man came to his departed father Maulana EHTISHAM UL HAQ THANVI and said that I want to follow the Prophet [saw] sunnah by taking four wives.The maulana answered to the man who incidently was clean shaven "have you followed all the other sunnah's of our beloved prophet [saw]?" ;D :-/

Again I apologize if I have hurt anyone with my words.

ALLAH KNOWS BEST.

BUSHRA :-)
Re: A woman’s confession
zomorrud
03/17/02 at 19:33:00
assalamu alaikum

[quote]One question for the brothers.  With so many problems in the whole wide world befalling the Muslims, men and women and children, why do u choose to perform ibadah THIS particular way and why do u choose THIS particular lady ? Just curious  [/quote]

sister, none of the brothers raised this issue. it was me, a fellow sister who raised it.

you see, giving in to the nafs is not something that only brothers can be accused of. if all married women just focussed on themselves and shrugged other people's problems as not their own and not tried to be at least open to the advantages of polygyny, would not that also fall into the 'giving into the nafs' category?

yes jealousy is a human trait that is maybe overpronounced in women. Umm al-mu'mineen Aisha' radia Allahu 'anha was also jealous. but within limits.

i hope no one is offended, for i intented no offence.

take care
wassalam
Re: A woman’s confession
Kashif
03/17/02 at 21:54:28
assalaamu alaikum

If a man is taking a second wife because 'he is giving into his nafs' ?! Talk about loading a simple sentence with overtones of making the object feel guilty!

What you mean to say is that you won't allow your husband to take a second wife just because he wants to.

I don't see whats haram about that...

Kashif
Wa Salaam

PS This doesn't mean to say that i support brothers who don't deal with taking a second wife in a mature and responsible manner.
NS
Re: A woman’s confession
Mohja
03/17/02 at 22:56:16
[slm]

Hmm..interesting discussion  :)

I have the following comments :

First of all, sister Zomorrud(I love your name btw), if we are to talk about polygyny from a purely legalistic perspective in islam then we must concede that there are no conditions for the second/third/fourth wife to be older or less attractive than the current wife for the marriage to occur. It’s a right given to men and women who might be inclined to be in such a relationship, full stop! Therefore, your initial question of whether sisters would mind letting their husbands marry such older/less attractive wife already gives leeway for sisters whose jealousy is not aroused (or lessened) by the fact of the second wife’s perceived inferiority in captivating the husband’s attention. For the question to be fair to all sisters, I feel it needs to be modified to “whether sisters, in general, have qualms about their husbands marrying other women, who might very well be younger and more attractive than themselves- or older and less attractive?”

Secondly, and I hope the brothers don’t take this in a bad way,but i feel that it's not the brothers' place to judge sisters on whether their jealousy is or not justified(and what that entails) where polygyny is concerned. This is something that brothers simply do not have to face and as such cannot possibly know its implications, emotional or otherwise.

Thirdly, one of the greatest things about islam is that it gives people options to choose from based on their capacities.That’s why there are so many different ways of gaining Allah[swt] good pleasure like the night prayers, voluntary fasting,donating blood or giving away some of one’s wealth, or simply smiling at someone,etc…It all depends on what you are *able* to do.The question then becomes, who decides what one is able to do and what is beyond someone's abilities? I happen to think that everyone needs to figure this out for themselves.

Marriage, as with other halal things, is based on “ard wa qubul”, which is offering and acceptance by all parties concerned. Thus, if all parties are fine with it, then a polygenous marriage is a good thing. If that’s not the case, it can be very harmful. And I think we’ve all seen plenty of cases of the later. I honestly think it’s not fair of us to sit here and judge people because this particular situation is something that we, personally, would have no problem with (I’m not saying anyone has!).

It’s just like choosing a profession. I happen to think that being a doctor who dedicates one’s life to the treatment of poor, underprivileged people is the greatest thing in the world. But there are people who cannot stand the sight of blood or the smell of hospitals and would rather be a teacher or a business man/woman that would help others with their wealth. Does that mean that they are weak, selfish, giving in into their nafs? Or that doctors are in general better than other people? Absolutely not!

We all have strengths and weaknesses and the important thing is to use our strengths to serve God in the best way we can! If a sister is able to share her husband with another woman without any negative consequences to her own relationship with her husband and Allah[swt], then more power to her!

Now  :) that still doesn’t answer the question of how are we going to find a solution for sisters who may find themselves in a situation like the one in the original post?

For brothers who are still single and who genuinely want to help such sisters, they can marry 1,2,3, or 4 of them. But this is a sacrifice that the brothers must be willing to make, and it’s not an easy one. But then again such sisters are probably more likely,than others, to accept a polygenous marriage and thus all parties would be ok(if not absolutely happy) with the arrangement.

For the married ones, this is something that needs to be discussed with the current wife. If indeed the purpose of such a marriage is altruistic, giving a deprived woman some warmth and companionship (a noble thing to do), then by the same token the feelings and needs of the first wife/children need to be considered as well. If she agrees, then alhamdulillah all is well and dandy  :) If not then the man has some serious thinking to do. It does not seem wise to me to cause much strife and pain in one’s marriage with the intention of doing good somewhere else. But that’s just me  :)

If at the end of the day, the husband just wants to get married again for his *own* reasons and doesn’t care about the feelings of his current wife and she feels that she cannot possibly live with a co-wife, then I feel this is a situation where the wife can exercise her right to seek dissolvance of the marriage and return to the husband the mahr (khulw?).

I know this is a very sensitive subject to both the sisters and the brothers. But it all comes down to one’s comfort level. Polygyny is one halal option. Nothing more, nothing less! It does not neccessarily earn one a place in heaven nor is it a sin to not agree to it. Like any other halal act in islam, it's the intention that matters. So for those sisters who want to seek Allah's good pleasure by sharing their husbands in order to help a sister in need, i say may Allah[swt] reward you amply for your sacrifice :)

Finally, I do echo Sr. UmmWafi last statement. Sisters please be aware of your rights! There is a reason they are there and were given to you by *your* Lord! Do not be afraid to use them and don’t let anybody make you feel guilty because of them. And i say the same to the brothers. As y'all can tell I'm a firm believer in personal choice, as long as it is something halal.

These are just my 2 cents on the subject.

[wlm]

Mohja,the selfish-sister for now  :-*

ps- i just read br. kashif's reply and it goes back to my first comment.
Re: A woman’s confession
Anonymous
03/18/02 at 14:22:30
to respond to the question 'what woman would want to share
her husband with
another?',  i also think the answer is obvious:  one who loves him
fully and
deeply, and completely trusts in his love for her.  no, i'm not muslim
and my
main reason for replying to this is not even related to this part of
the
conversation, but one other comment on this part is that i understand
that in
paradise our petty feelings of jealousy and exclusiveness will have
evaporated, we will be free of them.  so why would we cling to them
here?  
would we not desire for every person around us all that we can provide
for
them of good and love?

what greatly disturbs me in this discussion is that the original story
portrayed a woman of merely 38 describing her own face as 'withered',
and
no one seemed to react to that at all.  she lamented her faded beauty.  
not a
word about that?  and, with my apologies, zomorrud, for what reason
would
you assume the older wife would be necessarily less attractive than the
younger one, or that this relative quality is of concern?  what is the
attractiveness of any person?  isn't it what shows through from the
inside?

Re: A woman’s confession
BroHanif
03/18/02 at 18:35:48
[slm],

Just a couple of points that raised my eyebrows....

First apologies if I upset anyone.... here it goes:

[quote]...the administration of Syariah Law .....but at the same time making it difficult for the wives to claim and assert their rights due to them[/quote]

If this was the case then this country or any other country it is not abiding by Sharia law then really is it sis ? Sharia Law when it its practiced in the correct form, is the best law. If you feel that the above situation is portrayed in your country then it may be that they have some aspect of sharia but I wouldn't say your countrys abiding by it. Thats why it appears that brothers can get away with your rights, because the law is not practice properly.

[quote]When the brothers talk about jealousy ... it makes the sisters seem as if we are petty selfish and self centred creatures who regard husbands as possessions.  Yes, of course, there are sisters who think that way ...[/quote]
So jealousy does occur ??? If it does then polygamy will never work in todays day and time if we have jealousy in our hearts.

[quote]One is, polygyny must only be undertaken if and when the husband can afford it in every sense of the word. [/quote]
So, my question is as an example, would you forsake some of your current luxries, for example, if you live in an expensive subarb would you sell your current house and live in rented accomodation or a cheaper house. In order so that your husband can get married to wife number 2 and 3 ?. Or would he have to stay content with keeping one wife in a plush house and the other in a bedsit ?

[quote]Second, the reason for undertaking polygyny must be acceptable to both of us and to Allah.  Meaning, he has to be honest in asking why he wants to undertake polygyny.  If its purely nafs, then no.[/quote]
Alarm Bells. What do you mean nafs, talk about guilty consicience laying on to the bro or what. Perhaps he wants to undertake Polygamy to revive the sunnah. Perhaps he needs to control his nafs a bit more. I think, simply saying it must be acceptable to you is a bit off. Reason, is because he and you have given alliance to Allah and not really to each other. Yes you are man and wife but to serve Allah is the first duty. therefore, it may be within his right to have two wifes.

[quote]One question for the brothers.  With so many problems in the whole wide world befalling the Muslims, men and women and children, why do u choose to perform ibadah THIS particular way and why do u choose THIS particular lady ? [/quote]

First, its a sunnah which has been neglected. And also it will allow the brothers to practice the hadith of the prophet  [saw] as " the best amongst you are those who are kind to their wives "(to the nearest meaning)

Secondly, the woman can be any whether, she's divorced, widowed or has never married before it shouldn't matter.

Thirdly, a guy can always get married to another woman regardless of how old he is, but, a woman will always have difficulties gaining a mans hallaal hand after a certain age due to the culture and the stereotypical ways we have towards each other. Thats why its necessary to break down these barriers by brothers practicing ploygamy, only then will society change for the better.

Fourthly, it also gives the woman who has been longing for a husband to practice many forms of ibadah. To serve the husband and to please Allah the wife gets a very high reward. So why should it be that some sisters who lead a single life miss out on this reward. See Sis Jannahs sisters section on marrige.

Fithly, the muslim ummah will grow in size and resource. However, this must be constantly be checked by bringing the kids up in a true Islamic environment not one of the TV and the X-box.

[quote]no br.Haniff I won't break crockery because I'm the one doing the cleaning [/quote]
I know some brothers who act like lions outside with their mates, but when they step foot in the house, all of a sudden they become like mice. That is why if some bros raised this question to his wife of Polygamy, he'd see the iron coming from the corner of his left eye.. And thats no joke!.

[quote]This is something that brothers simply do not have to face and as such cannot possibly know its implications, emotional or otherwise[/quote]
Hmm tend to disagree, if the husband really understands the wife then he will know how she feels emotionally or otherwise. If he has little disregard for her as his partner for life then I guess he'll never know.  

[quote]Polygyny is one halal option. Nothing more, nothing less! It does not neccessarily earn one a place in heaven nor is it a sin to not agree to it. [/quote]
Er yes is does earn ones place in heaven if you practice it correctly. And talking about sinning well I'll give you an example. In South Africa, muslimas are getting married to non muslims because the brothers over there are reluctant to take on another wife. So in a nutshell, if we really do care about each other then the answer is obvious to what we must do.

[quote]As y'all can tell I'm a firm believer in personal choice, as long as it is something halal[/quote]
Yep so am I, 4 sounds good to me and the Bros.

[quote]what is the  
attractiveness of any person?  isn't it what shows through from the  
inside?[/quote]
Yep thats right, real beauty is the heart not the skin or face. I think a lot of the bros and sisters have agreed on this before hand

If I've upset anyone then forgive me. And please correct me in my post.

Jajakallah.

Bro Hanif
Re: A woman’s confession
Kashif
03/18/02 at 19:37:14
Preach on brutha!!

*hehe*

Before i comment in response to Bro Hanif's post, i wanted to point out that our personal opinions on this matter will greatly be affected by what we've heard and seen in our own communities/lives. There seem to be loads of sisters who have seen polygyny go wrong - but for me its something i can't relate to. I have friends who have taken second wives, and they've been amongst the best-charactered brothers i've known, and there has not been a peep of controversy about their marriages - several of which have lasted for many, many years now.

[quote]So jealousy does occur  If it does then polygamy will never work in todays day and time if we have jealousy in our hearts[/quote]

I disagree. Jealousy would definitely be there; there was jealousy among the wives of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, and they were the best of our ummah.. so how can the other women be free from it.

From what i've read, some sisters will be staunchly against the idea in the beginning, but come to accept it later, and in some cases actually see blessings in it.

[quote]What do you mean nafs, talk about guilty consicience laying on to the bro or what.[/quote]

Preach on brother!


[quote]I know some brothers who act like lions outside with their mates, but when they step foot in the house, all of a sudden they become like mice. That is why if some bros raised this question to his wife of Polygamy, he'd see the iron coming from the corner of his left eye.. And thats no joke![/quote]

That reminds me of the hadith of Abu Zar'a.. does that ring a bell with anyone? It was about 7 women, who were describing their husbands to each other, and half of them found disagreeable qualities in their other-halves, whereas, the remainder found pleasing qualities in them, and amongst this second group was the wife who described her husband as being tough when he was outside the home, and very soft with his wife.

[quote]Hmm tend to disagree, if the husband really understands the wife then he will know how she feels emotionally or otherwise.[/quote]

Nope. I don't think any brother can even begin to imagine the feelings that a wife has if her hubby suggests taking a second wife for himself.

We keep having this discussion, and sisters discuss it so earnestly its as if EVERY brother is out to take more than one wife.. but that is quite far from the truth. I hardly know any brothers who seriously want to take second wives, and even those who do, i'm sure their wives will persuade them otherwise. *smile*

Now let me end on a slightly funny note, a few years ago i asked one of my teachers about the issue of taking a second wife in these days, and he replied 'my own wife won't let me take a second wife, so what chance have you guys got?' hehe

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: A woman’s confession
Kathy
03/19/02 at 10:25:24
[slm]

:-[Brothers- if you were married  to a woman and your wife asked you to take a second wife, with seperate housing, what would go through your minds?

:-)
Re: A woman’s confession
UmmWafi
03/19/02 at 12:08:27
[slm]

I actually said my istighfar 3 times before I post this but yet I know I am human so I am very sure that what I am about to say will somehow irk some people.  However that being that, I guess I am gonna press ahead with what I think.  Moderators, if you think I have stepped out of line, please do feel free to delete my post so as to avoid the thread from being locked  ;)

After reading the brothers' response to my post, my first response is "Get real".  Its just amazing how the brothers can think I am loading a statement with meanings that supposedly victimise the male's halaal option.  When I say that I would not countenance an act based solely on nafs then that is what I mean.  Are u telling me that there is simply no way that a polygyny is undertaken based purely nafs ? Oh btw, we all do know that nafs can mean nafsul haiwaniyyah ? And we all certainly do know the faculty of shahwah ?  A friend of mine is a beautiful sister, inside and out, with a loving disposition and a wonderful mother.  Even her husband told her that as a wife, she is wonderful. 5 years of marriage and 2 children later, he was transferred to a new job and in this new workplace is a 26 year old married woman with 1 child.  They got close and she got a divorce and when her iddah is over, he married her.  Reason he gave my friend for keeping close relationship with this woman is "she is a strongly attractive woman who aroused me in many ways".  Lets see, how much more loaded can I be when I say that the man is giving into his nafs ?  Second case, wife is a housewife with 4 children and husband is a driver who earns barely enough to support the family.  They sometimes run into arrears for basic necessities like utilities and even schooling for the children.  He took a second wife because he said "he needed a change from the current dreary lifestyle he is having".  How can I make my statement more loaded in this case please tell me.  Also, which part of the sunnah are these two men practising ? I have thought hard but answers fail me.  So tell me brothers, which part of the sunnah are the two men practising ? Oooppss wait, maybe the part about expanding the ummah and the marrying more than one wife.  But then again, are we gonna examine the quality of the ummah or are we just on a mission of just producing more ummahlets regardless of the quality of life and education we can give them ?

I am not against polygyny.  There are many polygynous marriage within my intermediate family and Alhamdulillah I am on good terms with either families because the husband is a responsible Muslim.  But that is the thrust of the question ain't it ? The husband and wives being responsible Muslims.

It's so very attractive to figure out our lives based on the intellectual configurations of Islam.  Its the Sunnah of the Prophet + Many women are suffering and needed help + If I perform the Sunnah I can get blessings = I marry these women who are suffering.  But we are living a duality of existence as Muslims.  A Muslim within ourselves and a Muslim with others.  Life is not about textbooks and madrasatul facts, its about the dynamism of being a true Muslim and about achieving husnul khulq.  If u read my post carefully u will realise that I am not vilifying polygyny.  Rather, I was presenting another aspect of polygyny that DOES exist. What is so difficult about accepting that ? I accept your many reasons FOR polygyny but I am not advocating AGAINST polygyny.  I am proposing polygyny with HIKMAH.  For surely Imam Al Ghazzali had impressed so very strongly the importance of hikmah in ALL of our actions.  He has not stressed it enough I see.

Jihad starts off as a moral persuasion aimed at preserving the sanctity of Islam but look at the redefinition of Jihad now.  Its a mockery of the Prophet  [saw] sunnah and struggles.  Why ? Because some people think that killing innocent people is akin to the Prophet's sunnah. Nau'uzubillah.

Please, polygyny is not another platform for a battle of the sexes.  It's a real life issue for most people.  A brother mentioned that the country I live in is not Islamic if it does not administer the Syariah Law in entirety.  Please do point out to me one single country on this earth that administers the Syariah Law in entirety ? Because I would love to visit that country as the women there would be happy women.  

BTW, its not a simple issue of not allowing my husband to do what he wants.  Thats an extremely naive conclusion.  In fact we dont dictate to our partner what he/she wants to do.  We sit down and we discuss our feelings on the matter and we weigh all possible angles and options.  Then the party will have to decide what he/she wants to do.  Thats how MY marriage is.  If yours is one where one party say yea to all u wanna do and nary a single nay, well happy for u then.  I do believe that one of the role of husband and wife is to enjoin in the good and avoid all that is evil. Sometimes, that entails analysing each other's niat and actions with the intention of bettering ourselves. Do YOU allow your wife to do whatever she wants, REGARDLESS ?

My conclusion to this tedious and, I am sure to many, innocuous post is this.  Sometimes, life and definitely deen, is not always how WE see it and how WE want it to be.  Wallahualam bissawab.

PS I truly apologise if my tone of argument is deemed inappropriate for an Islamic message board like Madina but I couldn't express my opinions any other ways.  If that displays a lack of hikmah on my part and certainly lack of adab, please do forgive me.  Syukran.

Wassalam.
Re: A woman’s confession
Mohja
03/19/02 at 12:28:07
[slm]

[quote]
i wanted to point out that our personal opinions on this matter will greatly be affected by what we've heard and seen in our own communities/lives. There seem to be loads of sisters who have seen polygyny go wrong - but for me its something i can't relate to.
[/quote]

That is exactly the crux of the matter!!!!

[quote]
He took a second wife because he said "he needed a change from the current dreary lifestyle he is having".  How can I make my statement more loaded in this case please tell me
[/quote]

I hear yah sister! i hear yah!

This has been a good discussion so far and i really hope that it continues because it's the *only* way that brothers and sisters can come to understand each other's points of views.

I will post more on this insh'Allah.

[wlm] :-)
Re: A woman’s confession
BroHanif
03/19/02 at 12:45:05
[slm],

Sis UmmWafi beautiful post, I think we all agree on many points of polygamy, however, I think there are always a few differences between the man and woman.

Insha-allah I will add my thoughs to your post. soon

Hanif.
Re: A woman’s confession
Abu_Mustafa
03/19/02 at 18:13:57
[slm]

Sis UmmWafi excellent post Alhamdulillah.  I have many more examples of the kind that you gave us.   As a brother I do not understand the fixation on following that one sunnah of our prophet [saw].  Maybe it is because some of our bros lack experience  :).  Since I was married twice (First wife was more interested in education and career and not kids but that is whole another post) I think I can say one good wife is a blessing that should be appreciated and thanked for.  

Alhamdulillah second wife takes care of my kids and ailing parents and then work parttime to sometimes help pay the bills.  So my point is pray and make dua that you get a good wife and then thank Allah Subhana Talla when you get one.  Besides my personal opinion no one can do complete justice with both wifes with your wealth, time, attention and love.  Even if you are rich and can afford to have more then one wife, you will still be not be able to do justice in every way all the time.  I thank Allah Subhana Talla for all the blessing he has given us.  

Jazakallah Khair

Abu Sobiya
Abu Mustafa
Re: A woman’s confession
BroHanif
03/19/02 at 19:40:09
[slm],

Dearest sisters and brothers, couple fo things that I'd like to clear:

[quote]Reason he gave my friend for keeping close relationship with this woman is "she is a strongly attractive woman who aroused me in many ways".[/quote]

Well since when does this have to do with Polygamy ? Polygamy is not some sort of weekend romance with somebody you have been lusting over. It is a commitment to Allah and the ways of the prophet  [saw]. Its as simple as that or it can be as complicated as that. The problem of this ummah in this day and age is that we have turned everything into complicated matters, when a subject rose between the sahabas(May Allah be pleased with them) they didn't question the motives or the actions it would endure, rather they were glad to follow the commands of Allah and his beloved prophet  [saw].

Now today, we have so much knowledge that it is like an ocean layed before us, however, the simple thing is Islam is not complicated, it is not something which is complex, Islam is the most easist religion and way of life. It is we oursleves through our inappropriate dawah and character who have made Islam appear as complex.

If in your example, the bro was following the sunnah and the commands of Allah then he would not have fallen for the damsel in distress. However, I'm not saying we are perfect(I'm certainly not) what I am saying that those examples given do not bring justice to the issue of polygamy, they are desires based within man and woman and if they are not checked then they can lead to first the sin of the eyes and then the sin of the thighs.

Shaytan our open enemy will never whisper to you oh how about peforming the act with her/him right here right now. What he will try and do is first make your heart aroused, then you'll look more than once at the party and then make you enter into the conversation. From there its a slippery slope if we don't fear Allah.

Every person has nafs, however pious s/he is, its hard trying to reign control over it, I know its a daily battle. On somedays you come out victorious on others its like your barely alive spiritualy.

Yet, those people who do fall for others, and are married, have perhaps neglected their marrige altogether, or a serious fall has appeared in the marrige or was always there from the start. That is why a person would perform such an illicit action. I think its evident from your post that throughout the passage of time the feelings for those brothers who married again, developed over time. Not on a Friday after work. They may thought their marrige was on the rocks, and it was futile to make it work so they took the option of marrying someone else.

However, the question would be at what point do you feel guilty or have shame that you conducted a sin with the opposite party ??? If you feel there is no shame or guilt does that mean that a person would carry on in their act to find solace and comfort with someone else or if the sin makes you question your conduct then does that mean you still value your marrige and your alliance to Allah ?

[quote]she is a strongly attractive woman who aroused me in many ways"[/quote]
Another point is that this sister may not be Mrs Beautiful on the outside but maybe a dynamite of a sister from inside. Not all men are interested in a womans behind, some may be interested in her mind and soul, her ability to make converstaion etc etc. That is why a person when attracted to somebody should just not go for the looks but of her akhlaq and character as well. Could this be the same for your friends friend ?

[quote]Maybe it is because some of our bros lack experience  [/quote]
Err call again. Yes we do lack xprience thats why its always good to hear what the sisters have to say. Yet it is a sunnah just like all the others, and sadly this one has been neglected.

All the sisters and brothers on this board can very easily commit zinah and adultery lets not kid ourselves, yet in todays society, there are little if no checks to stop people performing the evil sin.
Wherever you go, wherever you are in the world it is easy to commit this sin. We often hear that women are oppresssed in Islam, well lets be honest, which woman/man is more oppressed, the one who is married to a bro who has four wives treating them rightly, or the one who is a mistress meeting each other in secretive locations for a few hours here and there who is cheating on his current wife and has no rights whatsoever.

I agree wth you that Polygamy should be done with hikmah, in fact everything should be done with hikmah. And I feel in todays society we need more people to educate others about the issue of Polygamy, yet we also must address some of the serious points raised on how Brothers and Sisters can take this sunnah forward, perhaps we should root out about the problems of our own marriges as well.
We shouldn't just fall down into a heap at the sign of a first argument, or when we feel that the spark has gone we me must have sabr, and the abilty to forgive each other for the sake of Allah. Only then will our marrige work.

[quote]Moderators, if you think I have stepped out of line, please do feel free to delete my post so as to avoid the thread from being locked  [/quote]
Same ere.

Apologies to anyone who feels this may be a personal attack on them or if you feel that I have offended you. This is not my intention. Please forgive me and correct me. Luv yah all.

salaams

Hanif
Re: A woman?s confession
humble_muslim
03/20/02 at 15:17:42
[slm]

One aspect I'd like y'all to comment on.  Why did the Prophet (SAW) prevent Ali (RA) from aking a second wife ?  And what does this tell us about considering the feelings of the first wife when making a decision ?

My personal take on the whole issue is that I spend nowhere near enough time with my only wife and kids, so God only knows where I would find the time for a second family!
NS
Re: A woman’s confession
UmmWafi
03/21/02 at 21:35:24
Where did my salam go to ?

[quote]Well since when does this have to do with Polygamy ? Polygamy is not some sort of weekend romance with somebody you have been lusting over. It is a commitment to Allah and the ways of the prophet  [saw].[/quote]

Precisely.  In fact, if we want to be a Mu'min, everything we do must be an 'ibadah to Allah SWT and try our best to perform the sunnahs of the Prophet SAW, as prescribed and performed by him. But brother, everyday is a jihad.  A jihad against our nafs, a jihad against evil within ourselves not to mention jihad against all the wrongs done to our beautiful Islaam every single day. Where on earth would u have the time to ensure that your salah is perfect, sunnah fasting is done, spread the beauty of Islam, work to support your family well,  and carry out your role and responsibilities as a husband and father excellently AND still have time  for a second family ?

I am sorry mate, I would love to counterargue u point by point but I am ill (perhaps my delirious ramblings sorta indicate this ?  ;D) I will just conclude my point by saying this.  If polygyny needs  to be undertaken for the caue of Islaam and the well being of the Ummah, I am all for it. But and this is a big BUT, if one wants to follow the sunnah of the Prophet  [saw] then for heaven's sake, perform the sunnah as performed and prescribed by him.  No other variations please.  Now how many of us can claim that we take wudhu' as perfectly as him ? Let alone a whole new serious enterprise as polygyny.

Wallahualam bissawab.

Wassalam.


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