A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Anonymous |
| 03/20/02 at 12:48:36 |
| Salam, About 3 yrs ago, I have hurt a dear friend badly.It wasnt my intention to do so but it happened unfortunately:( I tried many times to seek forgiveness but he seemed reluctant to it. I gave up after thinking that he will never forgive me. Sometime last year I was thinking about it again and I tried to seek for forgiveness again but my wish was denied like before and we had a big fight about the whole thing. He called me names, cursing and swearing for what I did. I felt sad but I just listened cause I thought I deserved to hear all that since I have hurt him so much. After that, I decided to forget about it (again!). 2 months later, I received news about him being hospitalised for serious ailment. There is nothing much I could do but I sent some encouragement notes and dua's for his family. Dua for him was always in my daily prayers without miss. Almost 2 months later, he sent me an email thanking me (I guess he learned that I never hate him and always pray for his well being). I thought this should mean he was about to forgive me. But I was wrong. It seemed that he still hasnt gotten over what happened 3 yrs ago. He kept asking the reasons for certain events that happened 3 yrs ago. I learned something from our 2 hours conversation which happened a month ago. He told me that he will never forgive me for hurting him. He also told that all his existance he prays that I will go to hell for what I did to him. He also pray that if he is to sent to hell, he prays that I will be sent to the deepest level of hell. He said I am a devil and cannot be call a human cause I have no heart. His words were very hurtful for me. What should I do about this? Everytime I think about it, I feel so depressed and down about myself. I know I am not a very pious person but I also know that I do I have a heart and feel like other human beings. He told that he will bring this matter to Allah in the next world and if Allah asked if anyone has hurt him badly, he will ask Allah to give judgement to me. Will I be punished since I was in the wrong (cause I did hurt him even unintentionally) Sorry for the long post but I really need opinion on this. any opinion is muchly appreciated, thanks. |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 03/20/02 at 13:46:02 |
| Salaaam Hello Anoymous. I too have delt with such things but not to the level you have. You are responsable for your actions NOT his REactions. There comes a time when you have to learn to forgive yourself. Sometimes forgiving ones self is harder than asking anothers forgiveness. Personaly, I would say, sounds like you made several attempts to seek this persons forgiveness. If in your heart you asked God/Allah's forgiveness and was sincere and then went to the one you hurt and was sincere in asking forgiveness, then I would say it is time to forgive yourself and move on, ask God/Allah to free your heart of guilt and ask that he help heal your friends heart. I wish you well on your journey of learning to forgive yourself. You and this other person will be in my prayers. |
| 03/20/02 at 13:47:46 |
| Caraj |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Aabidah |
| 03/20/02 at 22:25:06 |
| [slm] Like :-) Cara said, there has to come a time when you have to forgive yourself, if you have sincerely repented to Allah-u SubhanaHu Wata'ala. You asked for your friends' forgiveness, and during the time of his sickness you made dua'a for him and Alhamdulillah he got better, and he still didn't forgive you. That shows that he does not value the friendship that you had before. He should have the heart to forgive b/c you made so much dua'a for him when he was ill, but he didn't. It sounds like you are sincerely sorry for what you've done and inshaAllah Allah will forgive you. If he still holds a grudge after three years, no matter what the problem was, that's not right. InshaAllah you will get through this...may Allah help you and all of us to get through tough times...Ameen. [wlm] Betul |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| yoursister |
| 03/21/02 at 05:00:25 |
| assalamu alaikum you need to forgive yourself. you need to let go of the control this person has on your life. it will destroy you otherwise because you will start to believe that you are not worthy of Allah (swt) forgiveness and you will stop trying to please him. you said that you are not a very religious person and that should be your focus now. turn to Allah and gain his pleasure. inshallah He will forgive you and this other person may in the end aswell but your focus shoud only be only pleasing Allah. remember he is the most forgiving and all you have to do is repent sincerely and ask. wa alaikum assalam |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Kashif |
| 03/21/02 at 22:51:10 |
| assalaamu alaikum I must admit that this dilemma has got me really stumped. It would be wonderful if you could pose this question to an `alim and relay his answer to the rest of us. You see, it all depends on who you are and what you did? Not that i'm prompting you to reveal it to us - probably its better that you don't. Furthermore, how did you hurt him? Was it a SIN that caused this split? That is, did you backbite him? Or was it something other than a sin like for example, you rejected his marriage offer? Again, you don't need to reveal anything. I mean lets say you are two brothers who have known each other for years and you said something to hurt him. In that case, i would make du'a for both him and for me - asking Allah to forgive me for being the source of the hurt, and asking for Allah azza wa jall to bless him. And also to mention this brother with his good qualities in front of others if his name ever came up in conversations. But lets say it was something worldly, like you turned down his marriage offer or you crashed his car, then forget about it. Life goes on. If the opportunity arises to patch up the difference in future, take it, but there isn't any point making your own existence miserable because of someone's tough heart. Also, i don't think you should take notice of his calling you a devil. Afterall, you have shown regret for the mistake you made - and all humans aside from the Prophets err - and sought forgiveness and mending of relations, and he has denied this. Finally, if i ever hear someone make an ill du'a about me or otherwise, i do the simple thing and make a counter du'a of my own. If someone were praying for me to go to hell every day, then i would ask Allah to not accept that du'a. Simple. And you should make your du'a better by asking Allah to resolve the difference between you two and admit you both into Paradise. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| 03/21/02 at 22:58:20 |
| Kashif |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Kathy |
| 03/21/02 at 23:24:06 |
| [slm] Any chance of him having a mentally ill problem? This may block him from forgiving you. |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 03/22/02 at 08:37:44 |
| [slm] I didn't want to comment on this as I did not know the ruling on this. The way you described things it sounded to me like it might have been something like turning down a marriage proposal, and then *POOF* Kashif posts this. :) Its best to ask a sheikh in your community about your situation, and please get back to us and let us know what he said. [quote author=Kashif link=board=madrasa;num=1016646516;start=0#4 date=03/21/02 at 22:51:10]assalaamu alaikum Furthermore, how did you hurt him? Was it a SIN that caused this split? That is, did you backbite him? Or was it something other than a sin like for example, you rejected his marriage offer? Again, you don't need to reveal anything. [/quote] As a general comment (and it may have nothing to do with this case) and reminder to everyone, and I warn myself first, we really need to control our tongues and watch what we say. "Beware of backbiting, for backbiting is more serious than adultery. A man may commit adultery, and drink [wine], and then repent, and Allah will forgive him. But, the backbiter will not be forgiven by Allah until his [backbited] companion forgives him." [Suyuti, Al-Jami` as-Saghir, 1/174, #2919, from Ibn Abid-Dunya, and Abush-Shaykh, Al-Tawbikh.] "Whoever has wronged his brother, in the way of property or honor, let him go to him and repair it, before it is taken [from him on a day] when he has no dirhams or dinars, such thatif he has any good deeds, some of the good deeds will be taken and given to [the wronged one], otherwise [if he has no goo deeds], some of the other's evil deeds will be taken and cast upon him." [Bukhari, Al-Mazalim, 5/121, #2449. Ahmad, Al-Musnad, 2/435] If the person has not learned that he has been backbited, then the backbiter need not tell him, but he should ask Allah to forgive him. "The expiation with regard to one who has been backbited is that forgiveness be asked for him." [Suyuti, Al-Jami` As-Saghir, 2/390, #6259] Mujahid said : the expiation for eating the flesh of your brother is that you praise him and pray for good for him, and similar is the case if he has died. |
| NS |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| mujaahid |
| 03/22/02 at 09:38:06 |
| [slm] As harsh as this may sound, you obviously done something aweful, and you should have realised the consequences before doing it. Its all well and good being sorry after its happened, but by then its too late. Some things are unforgivable, and what to some may seem minor incidents, to others they have devastating affects. If this person chooses not to forgive, thats something you have to learn to live with. He had to learn to live with your decision, you gotta learn to live with his decisions. As harsh as it sounds, this was all your fault in the first place. It was all bought upon by yourself. If you hadnt done what you did, you would not have someone prayer for you to go to jahannam (hell). All you can now do is lget on with your life. This other person, in my opinion, seems just wanna forget what happned, but not forgive. Thats his choice. [wlm] |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| mujaahid |
| 03/22/02 at 09:43:11 |
| Kathy you wrote: <Any chance of him having a mentally ill problem? This may block him from forgiving you.> Why is this guy being blamed for? He is the innocent one in all this, or have you forgotton? Just because he chooses not to forgive, it dont make him mentally ill! I cannot believe you Suggested that Mama Mod! If Anonymous has seen this person does not wanna forgive, then anonymous should just get on with thier life, and allow this person to move on. Anonymous pestering this guy for fogiveness means he himself cannot move on, and the hurt he once went thorugh, never has a chance to ease when the person that caused it is always around, looking for forgiveness, just so that they can feel better about themselves. Move on, let it go, allow this guy to get over it and get on with his life. Stop holding him back. Break off all contact, simple as that. |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Kathy |
| 03/22/02 at 10:03:05 |
| [slm] Mujy, Mujy, Mujy, You must know me by now... I would only suggest this- because somewhere in my life experiences I have delt with this. Not everything in life is cut and dry. Maybe it is time I tell the story of my first marriage. It ended. Many people thought it was a green card issue.- he did leave about 6 months after he got it. Many thought it was an abuse issue- after all I did leave him each time he hit me. I, personally, had no idea -until three years ago what was going on! Like the above post he accused me of hurting him , deeply. And he went thru the typical stages of grief- denial, shock, anger,... The things he accused me of were bizarre and he said many of the hurtful things and used the same kind of language that the guy above used. That is why I started to think... hmmm... About three years ago he contacted me. (I could go into all the details- but they are irrelevant)- I found out he was diagnosed Paraniod- Schizophrenic.- by thre seperate doctors! Needless to say- finally, [i] sigh[/i], every thing fell into place. All of a sudden much of what happened in the marriage made sence. I am not saying this is what the above's problem is- but perhaps she could take it into consideration. |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| WhatDFish |
| 03/22/02 at 10:22:20 |
| [slm] the greater person is one who can forgive. and on your part all you can do is repent and strive to be a better muslim. Allah knows what is innermost in our hearts and the fact that you've been making du`a for him for the past 2/3 yrs or so shows how sincere you are. but he on the other hand he has been asking Allah for your doom. so who is the more noble of the two? he has a right to bring the matter to Allah if you have wronged him and it sounds pretty serious. one should ask Allah for nothing except good for a fellow muslim. and even for the non muslims that Allah guides them to the right path. so in that sense we only ask for good for everyone. and i wouldnt make a counter du`a, for Allah in His infinite Wisdom and Mercy knows what is best for all of us. a hadeeth says that when one make du`a for a brother, the angels ask the same for him, mashaa'Allah. so why would we wanna ask for bad for someone else and if we were to do that do you think Allah would accept it? we should emulate Rasulullah [saw] every which way we can and this reminds me of what happend in Ta'if. even then the character and mercy of our beloved [saw] stood out. he could have asked for the destruction of all the inhabitants but he didnt. so leave the matter to Allah for you've said uve hurt him albeit unintentionally. and Allah knows best. wa assalaam `Uthmaan |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Anonymous |
| 03/23/02 at 00:59:48 |
| Salam I would like to thank Caraj, Aabidah, yoursister, Kashif and Kathy for responding to my post. I really appreciate that. After reading the responses, I realised I feel hurt because I have not really forgive myself. I often blame myself for hurting someone I care about. When I knew he was seriously ill, I became so scared and worried. I worried for his health and scared if he died without forgiving me. He asked his niece to informed his friends about his condition. (their names and contact are in his diary) and I was one of them! Strange huh? His condition was so serious until his niece asked me if there is anything he owes me so she could return on his behalf. I told he owes nothing but if I may ask something from him it would be his forgiveness. I admit he is a little temperamental..his mood changes easily and we tend to argue on few things. I don't agree on swearing/cursing at others who hurt us. Once he hurt me and he felt bad so he asked me to call him names. I refused and he became a little angry. He said some words (which isn't good) and asked me to said them to him. To avoid his anger I simply follow his words and later he asked,"do you feel better now?" I told him I will not feel good after calling him or anyone elses names. That is not my way to deal with hurt or anger. Maybe I have my wrong too. Sometimes I hide things from him. Normally those are things that have past and him knowing them will only make him angry. He asked me to tell the truth even its against me. One day, he found out about one of the things from past that I didnt tell him of course. He started digging for more information. He threatened me to tell everything that I have not told since we firstly become friends or we will not be friends anymore. There are things that I rather keep to myself especially if I am ashame and not proud with them. He insisted everthing!! so I told him everything even the shameful ones (those are not as far as committing zina, stealing, killing etc) As I expected he got very angry and went crazy. Then everything went out of control. He used all the 'secrets' I told him against me. At that moment, I really regret for revealing them to him. How could he..asking me to tell everything even its against me...and later use these information against me? How far should we tell someone about our secrets or past? Should we tell everything even we know someone will be hurt or its better to keep them inside cause it does more harm to reveal. Everytime I made an attempt to seek forgiveness, it would end up with him swearing and angry. The sad thing is he kept pointing about the secret, why did I do them and still using them against me. Why can't he accept what done is done...and believe that if I could undo them I would. Should I be punished and not be forgiven just because I did a few wrong things before? If he keep pointing the past and still using them against me, there is no way I can defend myself cause I did what I did and I am guilty for that. Long time ago, he asked me to swear on one of my family members head for some issue. He said if I didn't do as he told, something bad will happen to the person I swore on. Unfortunately I did swear on someone head and later regret that:(. I asked my friends about it and they said its not up to him to decide bad things to happen and told me to prayed for my family. He brought that matter in our last conversation so I told if he is really a true devoted follower to ALLAH as he claimed unlike me the devil (as he claimed) he should not have prayed for bad things or have ill dua's for people. When I told him my friends also agree with me, he became angry and said my friends are all devil just like me and he hope(pray) that all of us will go to hell and be punished. I really regret mentioning my friends..now they are in his prayers as well:( He asked me to read Quran and I will find it was Prophet Muhammad saw (pbuh) who swore on people's head. Can anyone clarify me with this matter? Here I go again...another long post..even longer...sorry for taking your time p/s does anyone know any url I could ask a scholar/imam about ill dua'a? Wasalam |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 03/23/02 at 09:44:24 |
| Asalaam alaikum, [quote author=Anonymous link=board=madrasa;num=1016646516;start=0#11 date=03/23/02 at 00:59:48]Salam names. I refused and he became a little angry. He said some words (which isn't good) and asked me to said them to him. To avoid his anger I simply follow his words and later he asked,"do you feel better now?" I told him I will not feel good after calling him or anyone elses names. That is not my way to deal with hurt or anger. [/quote] He was making you do haraam by calling someone names. How can there be any good in doing sins? [quote] myself especially if I am ashame and not proud with them. He insisted everthing!! so I told him everything even the shameful ones (those are not as far as committing zina, stealing, killing etc) As I expected he got ...... Everytime I made an attempt to seek forgiveness, it would end up with him swearing and angry. The sad thing is he kept pointing about the secret, why did I do them and still using them against me. Why can't he accept what done is done...and believe that if I could undo them I would. Should I be punished and not be forgiven just because I did a few wrong things before? If he keep pointing the past and still using them [/quote] If there are sins that you did in the past, you should not disclose them. It was narrated that Saalim ibn ‘Abd-Allaah said: I heard Abu Hurayrah say: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “All of my ummah will be fine except for those who commit sin openly. Part of committing sin openly is when a man does something at night and Allaah conceals it, but in the morning he says, ‘O So-and-so, last night I did such and such.’ His Lord had covered his sin all night, but in the morning he removed the cover of Allaah.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5721; Muslim, 2990) Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said: Concerning the command to cover or conceal, a hadeeth was narrated which does not meet the conditions of al-Bukhaari. This is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar which is attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Avoid these obscenities which Allaah has forbidden. Whoever commits any of them, let him be concealed with the concealment of Allaah.” The hadeeth was narrated by al-Haakim and is also included in al-Muwatta’ as one of the mursal reports of Zayd ibn Aslam. Ibn Battaal said: Openly flaunting one’s sins implies disrespect towards Allaah and His Messenger, and the righteous believers, and is a type of stubborn provocation. Concealing sin protects one against being disrespectful in this manner, because sin brings humiliation upon the people who commit it, such as the hadd punishment if it is a sin that carries such a penalty, or the ta’zeer penalty if no hadd is enjoined. If it is something which violates the rights of Allaah, then He is the Most Generous and His Mercy precedes His Wrath. Hence if He conceals it in this world, He will not expose it in the Hereafter, but the one who flaunts it openly loses all of that. The hadeeth clearly condemns those who openly flaunt their sin, which implies praise of those who conceal their sin. The fact that Allaah conceals it implies that the believer must also cover himself. Whoever deliberately flaunts his sin angers his Lord, Who will not then cover him. Whoever deliberately conceals his sin out of shame before his Lord and before people, Allaah will bless him by concealing it. (Fath al-Baari, 10/487-488) al-Mannaawi said: What is meant is those who talk openly to one another about their sins. Ibn Jamaa’ah included in this disclosure of what happens between husband and wife of permissible things. This is supported by the famous report which warns against that: “It is part of blaunting one’s sins” – i.e., speaking openly about them and broadcasting them – “that a man should do an evil deed at night, then the following morning, when Allaah had covered him, he says, ‘Last night I did such and such’ – when all night his Lord had concealed his sin, but in the morning he uncovers what Allaah had concealed.” – by telling people about his sin. This is a betrayal on his part of the covering of Allaah which had been lowered upon him, and a provocation of the desire for evil in the people who hear him or see him. So these are two offences which are added to his original offence and make it worse. If in addition to that he encourages others to do likewise, this is a fourth offence that makes the matter even worse… The implication is that they have no sins unless they flaunt them, then he explained that the one who flaunts his sin is the one who does something at night and his Lord conceals it, then in the morning he says, ‘O So-and-so, last night I did such and such,’ so he removes the covering of Allaah. He is to be condemned in this world by carrying out the hadd punishment, for it is among the attributes and blessings of Allaah that He brings forth what is beautiful and conceals what is ugly. So openly flaunting sin is a rejection of that blessing and disrespect towards the concealment of Allaah. Al-Nawawi said: It is makrooh for the person who is tested with sin to tell anyone else about it. Rather he should give it up, regret it and resolve not to do it again. repenting from sins Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The punishment for sin is lifted from a person by means of ten things: 1 – Repentance; this is agreed upon among the Muslims. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings): “Say: ‘O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily, Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful’” [al-Zumar 39:53] “Know they not that Allaah accepts repentance from His slaves and takes the Sadaqaat (alms, charity), and that Allaah Alone is the One Who forgives and accepts repentance, Most Merciful?” [al-Tawbah 9:104] “And He it is Who accepts repentance from His slaves, and forgives sins”[al-Shoora 42:25] 2 – Praying for forgiveness. It was narrated in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a person commits a sin, then says, ‘O Lord, I have committed a sin so forgive me,’ He says, ‘My slave knows that he has a Lord Who may forgive sins or punish for it; I have forgiven My slave…’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6953; Muslim, 4953) In Saheeh Muslim it is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If you did not commit sin, Allaah would do away with you and bring people who would commit sins then ask Him to forgive them, so He would forgive them.” (al-Tawbah, 4936) 3 – Doing good deeds which wipe out sins. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And perform As‑Salaah (Iqaamat‑as‑ Salaah), at the two ends of the day and in some hours of the night [i.e. the five compulsory Salaah (prayers)]. Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds (i.e. small sins)”[Hood 11:114] And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The five daily prayers and Jumu’ah (Friday prayers) and Ramadaan take away the bad deeds between one and the next, if you avoid major sins.” (Narrated by Muslim, 344). And he said: “Whoever fasts Ramadaan out of faith and the hope of reward, his previous sins will be forgiven.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 37; Muslim, 1268). And he said: “Whoever spends the night of Laylat al-Qadr in prayer out of faith and the hope of reward, his previous sins will be forgiven.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1768). And he said: “Whoever performs Pilgrimage to this House, and does not behave in an obscene or immoral manner, he will go back free of sin like the day his mother gave birth to him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1690). And he said: “The expiation for the fitnah caused to a man by his family, wealth and children is prayer, fasting, enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 494, Muslim, 5150). And he said: “Whoever frees a believing slave, for each of (the slave’s) limbs Allaah will free one of his limbs from the Fire…” (Narrated by Muslim, 2777). These and similar ahaadeeth are narrated in the books of Saheeh. And he said: “Charity extinguishes sin as water extinguishes fire, but hasad (malicious envy) consumes good deeds as fire consumes wood.” 4 – The du’aa’ of the believers for the believer, such as when they pray the funeral prayer for him. It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah and Anas ibn Maalik that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no Muslim who dies, and a group of Muslims numbering one hundred pray for him, all of them interceding for him, but their intercession for him will be accepted.” (Narrated by Muslim, 1576). It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘There is no Muslim man who dies, and forty men pray the funeral prayer for him, not associating anything with Allaah, but Allaah will accept their intercession for him.’” (Narrated by Muslim, 1577). This refers to praying for him after he has died. 5 – Good deeds which can be done for the deceased, such as giving in charity (on his behalf), etc. This will benefit him, according to the clear, saheeh texts of the Sunnah and the consensus of the Imams. The same applies to freeing slaves and Hajj (on his behalf), indeed it was proven in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever dies owing any (obligatory) fasts, his heir should fast them on his behalf.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5210; Muslim, 4670). 6 – The intercession of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and others on the Day of Resurrection for those who have committed sins. This is narrated in the mutawaatir ahaadeeth about intercession, such as the hadeeth in which he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “My intercession will be for those among my ummah who have committed major sins.” (Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 3965). And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I was given the choice between admitting half of my ummah to Paradise and intercession, and I chose intercession.” (See Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3335). 7 – Calamities by means of which Allaah expiates sins in this world. It was narrated in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No tiredness, exhaustion, worry, grief, distress or harm befalls a believer in this world, not even a thorn that pricks him, but Allaah expiates some of his sins thereby.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5210; Muslim, 4670). 8 – The torment, squeezing and terror that happens in the grave. These are also things by means of which sins are expiated. 9 – The horrors, distress and hardship of the Day of Resurrection. 10 – The mercy and forgiveness of Allaah, with no cause on the part of His slaves. See: Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn Taymiyah, vol. 7, p. 487-501. This person was mentally abusing you. He was calling you to do haraam (swearing), and he was asking you to disclose sins from your past. There is no reason for you to disclose your sins, (there are exceptions such as when you are seeking a ruling, or trying to figure out how you can repent), but this was not the case here. This person is continuing to abuse you and he is trying to make you feel guilty. You don't need that kind of pain and suffering. You should avoid this person. |
| NS |
| 03/23/02 at 09:46:40 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| mujaahid |
| 03/23/02 at 14:57:59 |
| <This person is continuing to abuse you and he is trying to make you feel guilty. You don't need that kind of pain and suffering. You should avoid this person. > Interesting. I think Anonymou's presence if what is making tis guy behave the way he is. Anonymous has obviously done something pretty hurtful to this guy, and thier presence is making things worse for him. Anonymous, whatever you done, you must realise now that this guy is not gona forgive you. Also realise this, your presence is making this guy go almost crazy. If you continue to pester him for forgiveness, and remainin his presence, he probably will go mentally ill. All you should do is learn to live with what you done, and get on with your life, and allow this person to get on with thiers. Yes you want forgiveness, but at what cost? If this guy is clearly not gona forgive you, then why not just let it go? The more you pester him, the more he is dragged back to the past, to what happened, to what you did. And that means he himself is unable to get over it. About peoples pasts. if you do things in the past, serious stuff, then any potential partner has the right to know. I personally have a right to know what a potential wifes past involved. If the girl is not prepared to tell me, then i will refuse to marry her. Its as simple as that. People do not make "mistakes" in the past. At the time it happened, they knew exactly what they were doing. They willingly done it. They will also have to learn to live with the consequences. If that means most people will not wanna marry them, then well thats thier fault. The past is VERY VERY important, because it shows your character, because people only do what their capable of, what their personality will allow. Some people will drink Alchohol, while others would never dream of it, some may have boyfriends/girlfreinds, while others simpley would not! People only do what their capable of, and those with boyfriend/girlfriends in the past are the ones who usually go on to commit adultrey when they are married. I'm not saying all will, or even most, but you'll find that the ones who DO commit adultery are usually the ones who had boyfriends/girlfriends in the past. So yes, the past is VERY important. |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| BroHanif |
| 03/23/02 at 18:35:41 |
| - |
| 03/23/02 at 18:41:41 |
| BroHanif |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Kashif |
| 03/23/02 at 19:46:33 |
| assalaamu alaikum Based on your description of this brother, the thought springs to mind that you would be better off if you stopped contact with him and moved on with your life. Some of his behaviour is plain freaky and is without doubt having a major negative effect on you, and i definitely agree with bhaloo here, that if he has cursed you and then proceeds to demand that you curse him - which in some twisted sense to him may mean that the scores are evened - this is plain wrong. I would expect that if a brother was sorry for something bad he did, he would try to make it up with a gift. I completely disagree with brother mujaahid as to revealing your past behaviour to the brother. My advice to sisters in general is don't be so naive to think that your husband will accept news of any past relationships in a good/neutral light. He won't. This is the sort of thing that will eat away at a brother and can cause a relationship to completely disintegrate, no matter how strong you think it is, and no matter how much your spouse says it will not affect him DON'T DO IT! Another thing comes to mind. Lets say you are a sister - you mention that he is a 'friend.' Is it ok for you to befriend him? What i mean is that relationships between unrelated men and women are frowned upon in Islam because of the trouble that they can and do lead to. Thus, another thing to consider is that IF this relationship is one that you think Allah would dislike you from having, then you could lose in two ways: one in this world at the hands of this brother who is causing you mental anguish, and then again on the D/Judgment if you are questioned as to the nature and permissibility of having such a relationship. As for the question of swearing on people's heads, and claiming this is from the Qur'an, this is false. ---- The more i read your second post, the more i think of some of the elder generation men from back home who are a disaster for their families because of their obsessive behaviour, and i think that you would be much much better off having no contact with him. The Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said that the believer is not stung from the same hole twice. That is, the believer learns from his mistakes. Its up to you if you want to carry on in this abusive relationship, and if you do, you have only yourself to blame. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| BroHanif |
| 03/24/02 at 07:35:26 |
| This is from BroHanif. He is having problems posting to the board. Pls email me if you're having similar probs: Dearest brotherz and sistaz, Well I'm truly sorry to hear about your incident 'Anonymous' I hope to Allah that he makes it easy for you to find peace ony through him alone. I just wanted to raise a couple of points... In life we meet many people some who we continue to keep in touch with and others whom we lose contact after a while. Likewise in life you are bound to meet people who you share your heart with or disclose your true feelings about a certain subject. To realate my xprience, I've been hurt by a few people in the past they promised me at that time the earth and everything in it, however, it was short lived. Nothing ever came from those empty promises, many times I was hurt and I felt deep resentment towards these people. Yet time goes on...I now place my hope and trust and I ask for my duas only on one person and thats Allah. It was only after the painful lessons of broken promises that I found really myself. I really do believe in Allahand myself that if I want to acheive something, then first I must rely on Allah and make dua and secondly make an effort to acquire my goal. Perhaps sis Anonymous you need to understand yourself first before you seek forgiveness or try ot understand others. Because if you don't believe in yourself, no one is going to. Whatever has happened, that has happended. In Islam there are no ifs, or buts for example, if only I did this or but I should have done this. What happened was the Qadr of Allah and that is what we all believe in. You made a mistake, we all make mistakes. If nobody was to make mistakes then where would we be ? Now from here you've got to think what you want to acheive, we all care about other humans. However, there comes a point in everyones life where we've got to take a different route and say our goodbyes. We can't always revert back to the past because lifes not like that. History is a good teacher and from the errors we made we try to understand our present and the future lives and direction a bit better. So in short, whatever you did you have accepted, you made a mistake and you've asked forgiveness from Allah and forgiveness from him and that is really all that is asked from you. The person should not disclose your secrets, if he does then he may have to pay the big price of his sins being disclosed on the day of judgement. Nor should we pray for ill for others, the least we can do is make dua that Allah changes the conditions of the heart. [quote]People do not make "mistakes" in the past. At the time it happened, they knew exactly what they were doing. They willingly done it. They will also have to learn to live with the consequences. If that means most people will not wanna marry them, then well thats thier fault[/quote] Really ? People do sin and and people do good. Perhaps they willingly did the sin as well. Yet we all commit sins. There is no one in the world who has not sinned from the day he was born and lived a long life. And if its a case of marrige well again Shaytan is the enemy not the person. Now lets put your sceneario into a situation, a brother commits a sin and after that he realises he has trangressed the laws of Allah. He cries day and night, does eveything right for Islam and adopts the character of the last prophet [saw]. Now it comes to his marrige being prepared he tells the sister(s) to be, of his past sins do you think she will not marry him of his past sins, how dangerous would that be. One of the reason for marrige is to fulfil the sexual desire that we all have, and the beauty of Islam is, even an act like sexual relations performed with the correct intention and way is known as worship. What a beautiful way of life! So now our bro is refused by this sister and many others And lets say this was the general norm in society, refusing those with a tainted past, what will the sister/brother do now ?? if his strong he'll keep a fast till he dies to supress the chi of the stomach but what if s/he is weak, well for them we know what will happen, illegal sex. Then who is to blame ??? No one but ourselves for not caring for others. Oh yeah and then will become preachers saying to others the harms of sex before marrige. [quote]but you'll find that the ones who DO commit adultery are usually the ones who had boyfriends/girlfriends in the past[/quote] I don't think so. Shaytan takes no prisoners. For shaytan everyone is on the playing field whether you had relationships before marrige or not. His aim is to make you fail. Salaams hanif |
| 03/24/02 at 13:35:02 |
| jannah |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Anonymous |
| 03/24/02 at 19:29:03 |
| Salam When I sent my 2nd post (yes..the longer post) at that time there were only replies from the names I mentioned. For those who replied later, please know that I really do appreciate your opinions as well. I am not trying to gain sympathy but to clarify the mess in my head. I just wanna tell that you guys are wonderful people..willing to hear me out and gave opinions even I'm just an anonymous stranger here...may Allah bless and reward you guys for being there for a person in need..your opinions have created some difference to my thinking...its true I guess ..2 people can create 2 different thoughts on the same thing..I have been looking at the same way too long without seeing the other possibility...mujaahid, thanks for the opinion ..you have a point there...I never thought I was pestering him most probably I was looking at it from different view. I am in the process to find a scholar/imam/sheikh to help me clarify this matter...when I get the answer..I will let you guys inform. thanks wasalam |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| mujaahid |
| 03/25/02 at 06:51:14 |
| [slm] <I completely disagree with brother mujaahid as to revealing your past behaviour to the brother. My advice to sisters in general is don't be so naive to think that your husband will accept news of any past relationships in a good/neutral light. He won't> Thats all the more reason a brother should be told BEFORE they get married. I guarantee most muslim men will not wanna marry a sister with a past. Why should brothers be mislead into thinking some sister is really pious when in fact she could be a big slapper? Every man/woman has a right to know whom they are marrying, and what thier potential partner is all about. If she has a dodgy past, she should admit to it before marrying. The brother has a right to know what he is marrying, and getting involved in. I assure you, most men will not marry sisters with a past. That is a fact!! Why? Because previous relationships are a BIG thing, and no man wants to marry someone who others have had their hands on. Anyway thats my personal stance and it isnt gona change. Anonymous, do you still have contact with this brother? If so, i suggest you end this contact and try and avoid each other as much as possible. It will make everyones lives a lot easier. |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| Kashif |
| 03/25/02 at 14:28:30 |
| assalaamu alaikum [quote]Thats all the more reason a brother should be told BEFORE they get married. I guarantee most muslim men will not wanna marry a sister with a past. [/quote] Then, where is the benefit in asking the question? If she does have a past, should she according to you, be condemned to a life as a spinster since you say brothers wouldn't marry her? If a sister/brother has a 'past' should they then inform you of it so that after revealing their sin which they presumably have given up and made tauba for, you can thus, reject them? To borrow a term from Sister Se7en: that's wack! [quote]Why should brothers be mislead into thinking some sister is really pious when in fact she could be a big slapper? [/quote] How many practising sisters do you know that are 'slappers?' Those two terms seem diametrically opposed. [quote]Every man/woman has a right to know whom they are marrying, and what thier potential partner is all about. [/quote] Says which ayah? Says which hadith? Says which scholar? Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| mujaahid |
| 03/25/02 at 16:18:25 |
| [slm] Kashief have a drink [], we could be here for a while, and yes i know this is a heated topic but i hope you dont lock it! <If she does have a past, should she according to you, be condemned to a life as a spinster since you say brothers wouldn't marry her?> I made an error in what i said. I should have said a lot of brothers would not marry a sister with a past, whereas their are others who, would be willing to turn a blind eye. <If a sister/brother has a 'past' should they then inform you of it so that after revealing their sin which they presumably have given up and made tauba for, you can thus, reject them?> Well if they feel that they will be rejected over revealing a past sin, dont they feel this past sin is rather major sin, something the other person might not want to marry them over? Dont the other person have this right to choose? And if it comes out later on in the marriage, dont you think it could cause major fitnah? <How many practising sisters do you know that are 'slappers?' Those two terms seem diametrically opposed> how many Muslim sisters are actually practising? From what i have seen, the number is few. A hijab does not make a sister practising, just as a topee does not make a bro practising. Quite often in fact, they only wear it out of habit, or family pressure. <Says which ayah? Says which hadith? Says which scholar?> Says common sense. I am sure you must have heard of cases where married couples have divorced after one of the partners found out later on in the marriage that the other had a past which they had not been honest about. I can think of several!! And often, these marriages are happy, where they have kids also. And it just ends, simply because on had a past which they did not tell the other about, and when the other finds out, they usually cannot cope and it ends in divorce. Now wouldnt common sense suggest that it would be a better if all this could be avoidd simply by both being honest about thir past when they first discuss marriage? Thats all i'm saying, i aint saying dont marry sisters who may have had boyfriends, thats juts my personal choice, what i am saying is if people have a past, and they are asked about it, they shopuld be honest and open, as it could save a lot of trouble and unhappines in the future. Wouldnt you agree? |
| Re: Cant get this off my mind -need opinions |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 03/25/02 at 21:02:07 |
| [slm] Kashif is absolutely right, alhumdullilah. [quote author=mujaahid link=board=madrasa;num=1016646516;start=15#20 date=03/25/02 at 16:18:25] [slm] <If a sister/brother has a 'past' should they then inform you of it so that after revealing their sin which they presumably have given up and made tauba for, you can thus, reject them?> Well if they feel that they will be rejected over revealing a past sin, dont they feel this past sin is rather major sin, something the other person might not want to marry them over? Dont the other person have this right to choose? And if it comes out later on in the marriage, dont you think it could cause major fitnah? [/quote] I think you should read what the scholars have said on this matter. I have posted the fatawas before on here. I'll see if I can find them again. Here is one. Her husband forced her to swear an oath telling the truth about a haraam action she did in the past. What should she do? Praise be to Allaah. We put this question to Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen (may Allaah preserve him), who answered as follows: If she is afraid of negative or harmful consequences, such as divorce or a bad reputation, she can swear that she did not do it, and seek forgiveness and do lots of good deeds. She does not have to offer any expiation (kafaarah) because this oath has to do with something which is in the past, although it involves telling a lie. The kafaarah is sincere repentance. And Allaah knows best. [quote] <Says which ayah? Says which hadith? Says which scholar?> Says common sense. I am sure you must have heard of cases where [/quote] How about what Islam says? It uses common sense too. :) There is wisdom behind this legislation. Sheikh Munajjid was asked this question: A woman says that she married a righteous man, but she did things before marriage that were displeasing to Allaah. Now her conscience is troubling her, and she asks whether she has to tell her husband about what she did in the past. He answered it like this: Neither spouse is obliged to tell the other about bad things that they might have done in the past. Anyone who has committed wrongful deeds should conceal them as Allaah has concealed him (or her). Sincere repentance is sufficient. If a man marries a virgin, but it becomes apparent to him at the time of consummation that she is not in fact a virgin because of an immoral act that she committed in the past, he has the right to take back the mahr (dowry) that he had given her and to divorce her. If, however, he sees that she has repented and that Allaah has covered her sin, and he decides to stay with her, then he will be amply rewarded by Allaah Taken from: I want to repent BUT... http://www.islam-qa.com/books/wantrepent/english.shtml ;========================================= |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |