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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Yet another question |
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| Dawn |
| 03/27/02 at 15:21:57 |
| What exactly does it mean to be a Prophet or a Messenger in Islam? I can guess some things, like relaying what God reveals, setting an example with lifestyle, etc., but can anyone be more specific here? The reason I ask is that the words "prophet" and "messenger" can mean different things to different people, depending on that person's religious background, and since the terms are applied to Muhammed, I figure I need to know what a Muslim thinks when they use these terms. Thanks! Dawn |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| eleanor |
| 03/28/02 at 06:22:24 |
| [slm] once again I'm pulling information out of the recesses of my mind here, with no real proofs or evidence to back it up...but here goes.. [] The messengers are the ones who had a book revealed to them: ie Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad [saw] Prophets are all the other ones. All Messengers are Prophets, but not all Prophets are Messengers. Hope that makes sense. wasalaam eleanor :-* |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| lightningatnite |
| 03/28/02 at 10:07:22 |
| [quote]All Messengers are Prophets, but not all Prophets are Messengers. [/quote] Salam :) Yes, this is a very essential axiom. Prophets are like fish, and a messenger is a goldfish. Its a very special kind of fish. But you cannot be a goldfish without first being a fish. Likewise, you cannot be a Messenger without first being a Prophet. I know you think I'm over-emphasizing, but this is a very important point in logic...because it has further implications when one delves further into the concept of Prophethood in Islam, which you so bravely are doing :) Curious Dawn, did anyone every call you that when you were little? :) j/k that is how you discover truth :) You are right to think that Islam has a different concept of prophethood than what is understood in our culture. I've capitalized Prophet because the English word prophet is a very poor translation of its equivalent Arabic, "nabii". In English, anyone who prophesizes about the future is considered a prophet. I still remember reading an encyclopedia when I was young, and coming across the line "The prophet Mohammed was born in...." and I got so excited. I was like, this is great, the author of this article believes that Muhammad is a prophet, he must be a Muslim! But in Arabic, nabii has a much different, deeper meaning. It has nothing to do with prophesizing the future. In fact, it has quite the opposite meaning. A nabii is one who is guided by God in the moral, spiritual dimension. He does not know the future, for only God knows this. He teaches the Truth, and based on Divine revelation and the signs given to us by God, he calls people to the Truth. The ability to "prophesize" is a secondary characteristic, that is a reflection of the nabii's knowledge and understanding of the coming events, and the hereafter. The English word 'prophet' lacks this essential quality of being guided and truthful in the moral dimension. The one who does prophesize the future, and does not have this 'guidedness', is considered a very evil person in Islam. They predict the future based on their own desires, or by various satanic forces. They often misguide people and try to convince them that they are true Prophets. True Prophets are given maricles by which the sincere seeker can recognize them. According to some hadith, there were between 24,000 and 124,000 true Prophets. A Messenger is a Prophet who is given direct revelation from God. He carries this Divine Message to the people. David, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, peace be upon them all, are examples of Messengers. One last essential point. The Prophet Muhammad [saw] is the seal of the Prophets. This honor and title is given to him in the Qur'an by God. Thus, there can be no prophets after him. And based upon the above axiom, there can be no messengers either. Many charlatans try to play semantic games and say they are messengers, and thus they do not violate the Prophet Muhammad's title of "Seal of the Prophets". The Bahai(BahaAllah), Ahmediyyas(Gulam Ahmed), among others, are examples. Since the Prophet Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets, his miracle must continue beyond his death, so that the sincere of those to come can recognize his Truth. That miracle is the Qur'an. Does this help at all Dawn??? :) Hope I didn't make it more confusing :D |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/28/02 at 12:45:25 |
| [slm] Just to add to what eleanor and lightningatnite have already said ... Both the Prophets and Messengers are people with whom Allah (swt) communicates. The communication may take various forms, such as inspiration or communication through an angel. Moreover, every Prophet was told by Allah (swt) that he was a Prophet, and it was made clear to him what his reponsibilities were. Messengers - Prophets who were given a scripture - usually had a more difficult mission than other Prophets. That is, they may have dealt with a big group of people, and may have had the responsibility to establish a *system* of life rather than just preaching and warning the people to obey Allah, etc. [url=http://www.islam101.com/dawah/03_prophethood.html]This[/url] is a good reference about Prophethood in Islam. It uses "prophet" and "messenger" interchangeably though, so be careful. And Allah knows best. |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| Dawn |
| 03/28/02 at 15:47:54 |
| [quote author=lightningatnite link=board=lighthouse;num=1017260517;start=0#2 date=03/28/02 at 10:07:22]Curious Dawn, did anyone every call you that when you were little? :) [/quote] Nope, but I did like the Curious George stories as a kid! And my husband claims that my 14 month old daughter gets her enormous curiosity from me, though I think she is just a typical 14 month old. ;) Thanks for the responses, all of you. That was what I was looking for. I just wasn't sure exactly what was meant by Prophet and Messenger, though I could guess. I am glad to say I wasn't too far off. But I wanted to ask anyway, as the words are essential in understanding one of the pillars, namely the Shahada. [quote]One last essential point. The Prophet Muhammad [saw] is the seal of the Prophets. This honor and title is given to him in the Qur'an by God. Thus, there can be no prophets after him. And based upon the above axiom, there can be no messengers either. Many charlatans try to play semantic games and say they are messengers, and thus they do not violate the Prophet Muhammad's title of "Seal of the Prophets". The Bahai(BahaAllah), Ahmediyyas(Gulam Ahmed), among others, are examples. Since the Prophet Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets, his miracle must continue beyond his death, so that the sincere of those to come can recognize his Truth. That miracle is the Qur'an.[/quote] Related to this, I had asked a question in the Library a while ago (see [url]http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=library;action=display;num=1015964452[/url]), as the word "seal" is used a number of times in the Qur'an and I was wondering about its different meanings in the original Arabic. But I could extend this question here. It seems to me that where Muhammad is referred to in the Qur'an as the Seal of the Prophets, it is almost universally taken to mean that he is the last of the prophets. But the word "seal" has a potential number of different meanings, at least in English, and apparently also in Arabic. So, I concluded that there must be further support, perhaps a Hadith or two, that clarify this to be the particular meaning in this instance. Is this indeed the case? Thanks again for your efforts! I am just trying to understand, even if it does come across as a bit haphazard. :-X Peace, Dawn |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/28/02 at 19:48:34 |
| [quote]So, I concluded that there must be further support, perhaps a Hadith or two, that clarify this to be the particular meaning in this instance. Is this indeed the case? [/quote]Yes. *Many* :) I'll try to dig some up for you insha Allah. |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| se7en |
| 03/28/02 at 20:12:21 |
| as salaamu alaykum, Here are some hadeeth: [color=black] My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche. I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets. [/color] [Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi] [color=black] I am the last in line of the prophets of God and my masjid is the last masjid.[/color] [Muslim] [color=black]The chain of messengers and prophets has come to an end. There shall be no messenger nor prophet after me.[/color] [Tirmidhi, as related through Anas ibn Malik] [color=black]There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the prophets of God and no prophet will come after me.[/color] [Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi] [color=black]God Almighty hath sent unto the world no apostle who did not warn his people about the appearance of Dajjal. I am the last in the line of prophets and you are the last community of believers. Without doubt, then, Dajjal shall appear from amongst you.[/color] [Ibn Majah] [color=black]I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. There will be no prophet after me.[/color] [Ahmad] [color=black]...O people, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand my words which I convey to you...[/color] [from [url=http://jannah.org/articles/sermon.html]the last sermon[/url] of the Prophet [saw]] |
| 03/28/02 at 20:14:28 |
| se7en |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| lightningatnite |
| 03/29/02 at 00:17:07 |
| Salam, SubhanAllah, y'all are pretty quick with them hadiths :) Actually, I spoke to an Arab about this today, and he said that the word "khatam", or seal/end, is entirely unambiguous. I know that in Urdu, its a quick way of saying "thats all brother, its all gone" when searching for food, etc. So he said in the presence of such a clear Ayah in the Qur'an, hadiths have much less emphasis, juristically speaking. I'm just wondering, are you alluding to something you've read? If so, if you can tell us more about what was said, I think I'd better understand the question :) Hey, btw, anyone know what happened to Merimda??? |
| 03/29/02 at 00:18:45 |
| lightningatnite |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| Dawn |
| 03/29/02 at 03:49:05 |
| [quote author=lightningatnite link=board=lighthouse;num=1017260517;start=0#7 date=03/29/02 at 00:17:07] I'm just wondering, are you alluding to something you've read? If so, if you can tell us more about what was said, I think I'd better understand the question :) [/quote] Assuming it's me you are asking, no I didn't read anything specific. My question simply came from knowing that Muslims consider Muhammad the last of the prophets, that support for this comes from the Qur'an in the "Seal of the Prophets" verse, and that "seal" does not necessarily equal "last", at least in English -- hence the question in the Library. My conclusions were just based on the definitions posted in response to the question. Nothing complicated, really! |
| 03/29/02 at 03:51:19 |
| Dawn |
| Re: Yet another question |
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| se7en |
| 04/02/02 at 14:29:28 |
| as salaamu alaykum, [quote author=lightningatnite link=board=lighthouse;num=1017260517;start=0#7 date=03/29/02 at 00:17:07]Hey, btw, anyone know what happened to Merimda??? [/quote] she is *mad* busy with school these days. we're working on a project together.. (and Maliha also!) InshaAllah y'all will hear about it soon ;D wasalaam :-) |
| 04/02/02 at 15:05:05 |
| se7en |
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