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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/03/02 at 02:26:51 |
| MSS6F6@aol.com Islam is such a two faced hypocritical religion . You say Islam is tolorant of all others , and that it wants peace . I used to go to the Masjid and listen to the speakers teachers , and how they would say we want peace , and we need to teach the rest of the world this message . Then you would see , hear and be told that those same people were collecting money for the Islamic Jihad , Hezbollah , Hamas and many other groups that say "death to America and death to all Christians and Jews". You call yourself's tolorant . How many Church's are in Saudi Arabia ? Not One ! How many Christian's have been killed in Sudan , Nigeria and Chad in the last 5 years ? about 1 million . How many Church's have been burned or distroyed by Muslims in the last year ? over 200 . What happens when you bring a Bible into the Kindom of Saudi Arabia ? You are arrested and thrown in jail ! I will teach against Islam for the rest of my life , and I will do everything in my power to stop you . This is not a war that is Physical , yet ! but it is a war of the minds . [color=red] [Admin Note: This is posted because it includes the usual things missionaries bring up, so it's good to answer these things for the general public.] [/color] |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/03/02 at 05:52:46 |
| [slm] "Islam is such a two faced hypocritical religion" ...says two faced, western hypocrites. Nothing new thier then eh. "I used to go to the Masjid and listen to the speakers teachers , and how they would say we want peace , and we need to teach the rest of the world this message . Then you would see , hear and be told that those same people were collecting money for the Islamic Jihad , Hezbollah , Hamas and many other groups" And your point being? That the Muslims should sit back and allow themselves to be oppressed and brutalised? Sorry, but we will do whatever we can to fight back, as long as its within the bounds of Islaam. "and many other groups that say "death to America and death to all Christians and Jews". Do they really say all that? They may say Death to Israel, but to jews? I aint heard if often, and not to christians. Many palestinian resistance fighters are actually christians. Many christian churchs have been bombed by the Israeli's, many christians have been locked up and tortured by the Israeli's. And what do you say to those jews who say Israel has NO right to exist? Are they also two faced hypocritical fanatical terrorist murderers? "This is not a war that is Physical , yet " lol :D, ehem, i mean, have you been watching the news in recent times? Nigeria, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan? You know, thier does happen to be a war going on agianst islaam. And what about the millions of muslims killed in recent years in places such as Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Afghanistan, Israel, Nigeria, Phillipines, China, India, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Uzbekistan, Chechnya, Slovnia, Montenegro, Seirra Leon, the list goes on and on. Does that bother you? Do you actualkly care? Do you really think we muslims are just gona sit back and take this and not retaliate? Do you really think we will hide in the corners of our homes and pray and wish we aint harmed? No. We will do whatever we can to help our brothers and sisters, one of the ways is to raise money to fund resistance and guerilla fighting groups so these muslims can fight back and defend thier families and homes. If that makes them terrorists, then so be it. |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Dawn |
| 04/03/02 at 13:30:10 |
| [quote author=Anonymous link=board=madrasa;num=1017818811;start=0#0 date=04/03/02 at 02:26:51] How many Church's are in Saudi Arabia ? Not One! What happens when you bring a Bible into the Kindom of Saudi Arabia ? You are arrested and thrown in jail ! [/quote] Is this really the case? I have heard similar stuff like this before from what I would call "anti-Muslim"s, but I have tended to believe it to be a gross exageration. I can see, maybe no church buildings, but are Christians forbidden to meet for worship in each other's homes? And from owning a Bible? (I have read that one too.) What are the real restrictions people of other faiths (Christian or other) face there? Just looking for reality here. |
| 04/03/02 at 14:12:58 |
| Dawn |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| jannah |
| 04/03/02 at 13:42:55 |
| hmm just one thing... why are we using saudi arabia as our lithmus.. we all know they aren't an islamic state because they do not institute shariah (islamic law). so anonymous can speak all he/she wants on wack muslims/wack politics etc.. but it has nothing to do with islam.... now if you look at islam itself....and maybe how it was practiced by righteous rules in the past, we know of course that islam gives the right of religion and there have always been churches, sometimes side by side with masjids...as for killing innocent people we know that's not part of islam, as for killing people for their religion we KNOW that is not part of Islam and has never been part of our history and is the hallmark of other religions not Islam. so what is there to argue about? everyone agrees with anonymous that freedom of religion is allowed-- to the point of allowing Christians and Jews their own CIVIL courts for their own laws (now what religion would allow that?), houses of worship aren't allowed to be destoryed EVEN IN A STATE OF WAR according to islamic law, and of course no one is allowed to kill even one innocent human being for it is described in the Quran like KILLING ALL OF HUMANITY.. so anonymous I'd have to ask... why work against Islam when it is against the same things you are, and already protects the same rights you wish to work for? |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Dawn |
| 04/04/02 at 04:24:02 |
| [quote author=jannah link=board=madrasa;num=1017818811;start=0#3 date=04/03/02 at 13:42:55]hmm just one thing... why are we using saudi arabia as our lithmus.. we all know they aren't an islamic state because they do not institute shariah (islamic law). so anonymous can speak all he/she wants on wack muslims/wack politics etc.. but it has nothing to do with islam....[/quote] Sorry, Jannah! I didn't mean to sound like I was using Saudi as a lithmus. Like most non-Muslims, before spending some time at this site, I had little knowledge of what Shariah entailed, much less that Saudi wasn't instituting it. I had however, read anti-Muslim propoganda which described so-called Saudi government practices. I am just wondering if reports such as these are accurate, not whether or not they are supported under Shariah. I know enough now to realize that the latter certainly isn't the case. Anyway, sorry for any confusion. Peace, Dawn |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/04/02 at 05:45:53 |
| [slm] Dawn I can safely say that most of these reports are not accurate, although some do have an element of truth, they are usually greatly exagerated, especially if it comes from anti islaam media groups. A perfect example is the lies they spread about the Taliban (Salaam Jannah, how are you this fine day, i'n not disccusing the Talibs, honest ;) ) the reality of the Taliban was far from what the media were reporting. Anyway, i would say its best to ignore the western media when they come out with their Anti-Islaam nonsense. Better to go direct to the source of the stories and see from their. Their are dozens of Arab News sites on the web. |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| eleanor |
| 04/04/02 at 07:57:37 |
| [quote author=Anonymous link=board=madrasa;num=1017818811;start=0#0 date=04/03/02 at 02:26:51] Islam is such a two faced hypocritical religion . You say Islam is tolorant of all others , and that it wants peace [/quote] How people choose to practice Islam however, is something else. Islam is not responsible for its own misinterpretation.. that's the abuse of free will that we have been granted. So don't blame Islam for human shortcomings... I'd also like to know where you get your statistics from.. Anyone can go around quoting figures with nothing to back them up... wasalaam eleanor :-* |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Sparrow |
| 04/04/02 at 09:38:49 |
| Having lived in SA, I can say that it is probably not a good idea to waltz through airport customs with a bible in hand. I don't think you'd be throw in jail though, probaly just have it confiscated. Christians can and do meet for private worship ceremonies in private homes (if there is a church in all the Kingdom, it's news to me) in much the same way they gather on Xmas. The Saudi government has only required that Christians keep it private; no Xmas trees visible from apartment windows or anything like that, no big cross necklaces. They also don't want missionaries roaming the streets, and you will almost surely be deported if you get caught doing that, or distributing bibles in Arabic, as some fools have tried to do. Clearly, there is not religious freedom in Saudi but it's not like it's a secret. Christians working/living there know this long before they arrive. Their country, their rules. Christians who can't abide by this are free to leave. That's my hard-line opinion :) Peace, Sparrow |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/04/02 at 10:31:09 |
| [slm] Sparrow If it IS true that the Saudi's dont allow christianity, then i suggest we plan to meet up, gather a few friends, and take a trip down to Saudi and overthrow the Government. I'll bring a few bags of rubber bands, we can flick them at the Saudi security forces :D, while the rest of you guys run into the palaces and push the kings and princes of their thrones, and take over :-X |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Kashif |
| 04/04/02 at 10:49:11 |
| assalaamu alaikum There seems to be a misconception here. It is against the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wa sallam to have a Church, Synagogue, Gurdwara or Temple on the Arabian Peninsula. Simply put, neither Christianity or any other religion is allowed to be practised on that peninsula, and neither is any Jew or any Xtian allowed to reside there. This is per the statement of the Prophet who said that no two religions can co-exist there. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| 04/04/02 at 10:58:30 |
| Kashif |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/04/02 at 12:40:18 |
| [slm] Kashief i thought the ruling to them not being allowed to live thier was only in Regards to Mecca and Madina? |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 04/04/02 at 13:26:31 |
| [slm] Just to add to what Kashif said, the Arabian peninsula has a very *special* status in the Shariah. The entire peninsula is considered muqaddas [sacred], and thus no mushriks* [polytheists] are allowed to enter the peninsula for fear of sacrilege. Just to emphasize, this ruling *only* applies to the Arabian peninsula, and NOT to the entire Islamic world. Indeed the Islamic world once spanned from Spain to Central Africa to the far east. And nowhere were non-Muslims forbidden from living except the Arabian peninsula. And as Jannah said, we have astounding examples from our history where Muslims lived with people of other faiths with extraordinary peace, harmony, and cooperation. And Allah knows best. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah. * From what I have read about this topic, Ahl-al-Kitaab [People of the Book] are included in this category. |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade8/th> |
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| nouha |
| 04/04/02 at 13:29:48 |
| [slm] i think eleanor pretty much set it out for us jazakilah, dont blame islam becuase of human actions. anon -- you seem to have pointed out just one country, saudi arabia. as if saudi arbia is the only country that practices islam, what about the countries that practice islam and have churches and such in algeria (where im from) there is a church there, there are also christians living there and they peacefully coinicide with the muslims. they are allowed to put christmas trees up, etc. dont base one country's actions and generalize that this is what islam is all about, there is an ayah or verse in the quran (dont have it at the top of my head rigth now) that says "I have made you into tribes adn nations so that you may get to know one another" nowhere in this ayah does it say fight one another, mistreat one another etc. the Prophet (SAWS) himself even had christian and jewish aquaintances with whom he got along with the rules of islam have been laid out for us 1400 years ago. It is up to EACH and every INDIVIDUAL muslim (not countries) to follow it the way its been laid out or they choose the way they want to interpret it, they have the right to think whatever way they want to about islam, but in the end there are rewards and punishments, and its up to you which path u wanna follow...... wasalam nouha:) |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Chris |
| 04/09/02 at 15:04:40 |
| [quote]How people choose to practice Islam however, is something else. Islam is not responsible for its own misinterpretation.. that's the abuse of free will that we have been granted. So don't blame Islam for human shortcomings... [/quote] I just get sick when people claim that what they do that feels 'wrong' is allowed by Islam. |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Maliha |
| 04/09/02 at 15:18:53 |
| [quote author=Chris link=board=madrasa;num=1017818811;start=0#13 date=04/09/02 at 15:04:40] I just get sick when people claim that what they do that feels 'wrong' is allowed by Islam. [/quote] [slm] hmmm....like what Chris??? Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Chris |
| 04/11/02 at 10:46:36 |
| Forced Marraige is perhaps the worst |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Maliha |
| 04/11/02 at 12:49:03 |
| [slm] [quote author=Chris link=board=madrasa;num=1017818811;start=15#15 date=04/11/02 at 10:46:36]Forced Marraige is perhaps the worst[/quote] Hmm..i still don't know what you are talking about cuz forced marriages don't exist in Islam. A marriage is not considered valid without the expressed consent of *both* individuals in question. Pre marital relationships aren't allowed but that doesn't mean you are forced into marrying anyone you don't want to marry.... Sometimes people confuse cultural practices with Islam, for instance I've seen situations where a woman will be pressured into marrying someone but that is far from being Islamic and she has every right to refuse. I hope this demystifies it a little for ya:) Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Dawn |
| 04/11/02 at 12:53:01 |
| [quote] Sometimes people confuse cultural practices with Islam, for instance I've seen situations where a woman will be pressured into marrying someone but that is far from being Islamic and she has every right to refuse. [/quote] Maliha, I think that is exactly what Chris was saying. It is something cultural but it is put forth by the family, incorrectly, as something Islamic. |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Maliha |
| 04/11/02 at 15:04:33 |
| [slm] oh my bad :) I misunderstood his post :P Thanks Dawn ;D Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| Chris |
| 04/11/02 at 19:35:00 |
| What is never clearly understood in the islamic world is how much such confusion causes Islam to be hated. Such practices are barbaric!!!! If there are any Imans here, next time you speak in a Mosque, speak out against it! Send any person who tries to force a marriage to covernty! Shout out that it is WRONG! Broadcast it far and wide! Get the government to enact laws against it! Save Islam now and save souls! Chris |
| Re: Anti Islamic Tirade |
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| jannah |
| 04/11/02 at 20:12:40 |
| The problem is the imam would never know if a girl is being pressured to get married. On the day of the wedding ceremony she has to say YES or NO quite clearly for the marriage to be valid or not. But before this time her family could have pressured her by saying they will turn her out if she doesn't etc etc... So I think the real problem is this poor girl doesn't have anyone to go to for help so that her parents/family will stop pressuring her. And also perhaps another important thing we can do is islamic education in certain countries where parents may think that the girl should never have any say in the marriage etc. |
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