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| US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| struggling |
| 04/03/02 at 05:15:48 |
| [slm] http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4385338,00.html US invented air attack on Pentagon, claims French book Jon Henley in Paris Guardian Monday April 1, 2002 A bizarre book claiming that the plane that ploughed into the Pentagon on September 11 never existed, and that the US establishment itself was at the heart of the New York and Washington attacks, has shot to the top of the French bestseller lists to indignation on both sides of the Atlantic. The Frightening Fraud, by Thierry Meyssan, sold out its original run of 20,000 copies within two hours of going on sale. "We've sold 2,500 copies in 10 days, when a blockbuster novel sells maybe 1,500 in a month," a spokesman at Fnac Les Halles, one of France's biggest bookshops, said. "It's a phenomenon." Mr Meyssan's conspiracy theory argues that American Airlines flight 77, which killed 189 people when it smashed into the headquarters of the US defence department, did not exist, and that the whole disaster was a dastardly plot dreamed up and implemented by the US government. The French media has been quick to dismiss the book's claims, despite the fact that Mr Meyssan is president of the Voltaire Network, a respected independent thinktank whose left-leaning research projects have until now been considered models of reasonableness and objectivity. "This theory suits everyone - there are no Islamic extremists and everyone is happy. It eliminates reality," said Le Nouvel Observateur, while Libération called the book "The Frightening Confidence Trick... a tissue of wild and irresponsible allegations, entirely without foundation". A Pentagon spokesman, Glen Flood, said the book was "a slap in the face and real offence to the American people, particularly to the memory of victims of the attacks". He said he had not read it and had no intention of doing so. Mr Meyssan's argument, which started out as a rumour on the internet and has risen to prominence largely thanks to the author's reputation and chatshow appearances, suggests that the plane could not have existed because eye-witness statements are contradictory, there are suspiciously few photographs of the catastrophe and none of them shows any wreckage. Even the rescue workers' accounts, published on the Pentagon website, are not convincing, he says. He also asks why the facade of the Pentagon did not immediately collapse from the shock of the impact, and questions the fate of the plane's passengers. "What became of the passengers of American Airlines flight 77? Are they dead?" Both Libération and Le Monde set out to disprove his theory, tracking down photographs that do show debris, and speaking to victims' relatives. But Le Monde admitted that the information made public by Washington did not entirely add up. "There is no official account of the crash. The lack of information is feeding the rumour," it complained. |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/03/02 at 05:30:40 |
| [slm] I've read several similar accounts, and thier was also a good link posted on this site a few weeks back shwoing pictures which basically proved beyond doubt that it could not have been a plane. Also, WHY DONT they ever mention the passengers from the plane? |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/03/02 at 11:10:38 |
| i am sorry mujahiied, but that last link was the dumbest thing i had ever read, the only thing this proves is that there are really people in this world who will believe anything but the obvious.. beyond a doubt, you dont smoke anything funny do you ? [color=red][Edited][/color] |
| NS |
| 04/03/02 at 16:48:26 |
| Kashif |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/03/02 at 11:19:12 |
| also, what became of the passenegers are they dead? isnt that kind of ridiculous? and anything left is a model of reasonableness and objectivity. please, I listen to left wing stuff all the time (kpfk radio here in los angeles) they never have anything on there that is objective or reasonable. |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/03/02 at 12:45:29 |
| Mike That last link proved beyond doubt it could not have been a plane. Why did the wings cause NO damage? Why were thier NO pictures of a plane. The worlds leading military base was bombed, and their was only one camera that got a couple of shots of an explosion, yet no pictures of a plane? Isnt that i bit strnage to you mike, that such a highly important building as the pentagon had one cheap camera taking pictures, and where WERE the pictures of the plane? Why no pictures of plane wreckage? Why no wing damage to the building? Come on mike, stop believing the US media when all the common sense questions and answers show that this clearly was NOT a plane!! |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/03/02 at 16:04:48 |
| mujahiid, go back and look at the post regarding those pictures. the whole logic was based on a plane coming in at ground level totally flat. Our media has nothing to do with it happening, why do you believe in some left wing nut ? My theory is that this is a complete joke and you are trying to get a rise out of the people that try to stay connected in reality. |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| Kashif |
| 04/03/02 at 16:47:39 |
| assalaamu alaikum I am wary of believing stories like this: there have been just too many conspiracy theories flying about in the aftermath of 9-11. Yet, the question still remains, WHERE is the wreckage. Its an obvious question, but no satisfactory answer has been given. Another question as Mike points out is what about the passengers? Another point to remember is that the fella who wrote the book is regarded as the head of a well-respected thinktank. With the implication of a good track-record here, is it justified to dismiss the claims made because they seem so incredulous at first hearing? The link that mujaahid is referring to is: http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| 04/03/02 at 16:49:57 |
| Kashif |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| Asim |
| 04/03/02 at 18:19:54 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, [quote]Yet, the question still remains, WHERE is the wreckage. Its an obvious question, but no satisfactory answer has been given. Another question as Mike points out is what about the passengers? [/quote] Another question that I cannot understand is, how in the world did someone flew a plane into pentagon, the nerve center of the world's military?? If I was on mars for a visit and someone told me "someone crashed a jetliner into the pentagon." I would be like you are crazy! And this 'lapse' occurred many minutes AFTER the first plane hit the WTC. Same applies to the second WTC and PA crashes. In Africa, where I grew up, our school was in the barracks and there were some restricted buildings nearby. Whenever playing in the bushes we strayed far, the guard would shoo us as away. Now this was bush country with no tech and sleepy guards. Compare that with the U.S.? If not incompetence, then what???? Wasalaam. |
| NS |
| 04/03/02 at 18:23:48 |
| Asim |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/03/02 at 20:16:51 |
| ok ok i wont say anymore. I know for sure you guys are kidding. maybe we should be talking about that the USA being on the moon was a total fake, that way it wont get people pissed off. |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| Kashif |
| 04/04/02 at 04:07:14 |
| I'll take that to mean that you don't have an answer to the obvious either. |
| NS |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/04/02 at 05:34:46 |
| Yes Mike, i also take that as you not having any answers for the obvious. But i'll give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you didnt read the posts properly. So answer these for me please. 1) Where is the wreckage of the plane? 2) Why was thier NO wing damage, even though the wingspan is MASSIVE, did the wings detach themselves when they reaslised the plane had been hijacked? 3) Why are their no Pictures of a Plane on ANY of the pentagons cameras? 4) Why do we never hear about the passengers on this plane? The floor is open Mike, your on the spot, answer the questions if you can. P.s. Are you trying to claim the Plane Nose-dived into the Pentagon? If so, thats almost impossible, BUT say it DID happen, the wings would STILL have caused major damage. |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| Dawn |
| 04/04/02 at 05:40:37 |
| For all who are interested, here is a website which attempts to counter the claims of the original "Hunt the Boeing" website. It also lists some links to other sites of a similar nature. [url]http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm[/url] |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/04/02 at 05:55:44 |
| Dawn, that site is weak, i will counter the points: "Eyewitness testimony of bystanders who saw and/or heard American Airlines Flight 77 approach and collide with the Pentagon" A lot of it was contradictory, different people claimed different things. It was not reliable. "The recovery of both black boxes belonging to the Boeing 757 from the Pentagon wreckage" Flawed point. The Black boxes were damaged beyond use. What does that tell you? The indestructable was destroyed. "Answer: It didn't only damage the outside. Structural damage extended at least 150 feet inside, well into the third ("C") ring of the building." The pictures seem to suggest otherwise. "Given that, and the tremendous forward momentum of the aircraft on impact, the assumption that a significant amount of debris ought to be visible in front of the Pentagon wouldn't seem justified" No, it would have ran around to the other side and hid thier. Dhuh! Of course the debris would be in front of the building!! Was this debri camera shy? "According to a CNN article published the day after the attack, Michael Tamillow, a battalion chief of the Fairfax County, Virginia Fire Department, reported that parts of the Boeing 757 fuselage had indeed been recovered from the wreckage by FBI investigators (the same team that later found the black boxes). "No large pieces apparently survived," the article said" Ooohh CNN? Out goes the validioty of those claims then! Also, if they found wreckage, and the FBI have it, why dont we see any pictures of it? Dont they have picture Camera's in the USA? "One visitor who surveyed the crash site a few days later, Representative Judy Biggert of Illinois, told reporters she saw remnants of the jetliner: "There was a seat from a plane," she said, "there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane." (Chicago Sun-Times, 16 Sep, 2001)" Again, if this exists, why dont they have photo's of it? You see, this guy makes all claims, but no evidence!! He cliams they have eyewitness testimony of the debri of a plane, so where ar ethe pictures? Just to Add, i am a bit of an Expert in Jetliners, i've been studying them in detail for a long time. I am in a position to be able to refute those claims of this guy!! |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| eleanor |
| 04/04/02 at 10:16:27 |
| [slm] This is one conspiracy theory that sounds entirely feasible to me... I mean..why didn't we see any airplane wreckage.. Can anyone explain that to me? Or do they suppose that the crash was so tremendous that it all just disintegrated..? I remember watching the footage of them blasting water onto the hole in the Pentagon and thinking "wait a minute.. there's no plane in there... it's just a big hole where there was an explosion.." But like the rest of the mindless world I just accepted it. I agree that something like this may be insulting to the families of the victims.. they don't have anything else to believe, but it's not insulting to the victims themselves. As harsh as it sounds, they are dead.. they are the innocent.. at whose hands we don't know wasalaam eleanor :-* |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/04/02 at 18:50:15 |
| ok, let me see if I have this straight from your point of view, The planes, if there were any, were flown by the israelis (or by bush's people because he wanted to beat up on afghanistan). Probably the twin towers never existed or they were some hollywood prop if there were any. There was a flight 77. The plane, i would think from your surmising, is in area 51 or the bermuda triangle or was taken by aliens or the israelis. So they wanted to give a more believable explanation so they decided to blow up the pentagon to blame it on Al Qaeda. THis must be the vast right wing conspiracy theory that Hilary Clinton has been warning about. Kashif, i answered the obvious question in an earlier post if you feel like looking it up. The real question is, If a visitor came on here (and i hope i do not sound too disrespecful) and saw what pekple are posting on here, I would hope they do not think that muslims think this way. I am sorry that i had ever gotten on this subject, but in all seriousness, you guys look like fools. This has nothing to do with islam, but it has everything to do with some whacked out crazy leftist from France and for some reason mujahiid and others got sucked into it, why, is it because you hate america so much, that you will believe anything ? |
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| jannah |
| 04/04/02 at 19:25:49 |
| whoaaa itcorpest sounds like you're taking this a little personally :) now what i question is why is this not as plausible as whatever the fbi have come up with...prior to the bombing of afghanistan it seems that all the evidence they collected was pretty circumstantial not to mention, downright weird... a quran left in a bar?? a non-existant arabic flight manual left in logan...a perfectly preserved passport found 3 miles from ground 0, no descriptions of any of the terrorists from all those cell phones, CNN reporting that the plane in pa was shot down, supposed terrorists turning up "alive" in muslim countries, Israel intelligence admitting they knew about it beforehand...etc etc. now you tell me...can you tell me without a doubt who orchestrated, masterminded and carried out the attacks and their reason for doing so? doubt it.. the fbi/cia case is full of holes.. but the american public buys that OBL from his cave in afghanistan has masterminded this and the reason why he did so is because he hates the US full stop. interesting huh how everything so perfectly falls into place... now i'm not saying anything, basically i don't know anything except what is fed to us through the media, but whatever happenned, isn't it plausible that the US gov't would knowingly cover it up for US interests? wouldn't they filter the news? wouldn't they lie to the american public for their greater good? hasn't this in fact been proven time and time again after the fact? look back in history and look at all the things that people have discovered that the US gov't had been doing... feeding the people propoganda and lies, knowingly bombing innocent people etc... all in the name of the US, all in the name of freedom... so all i'm saying to the general american public is to stop being so reactionary and emotional to stop for a minute, turn off their fox news and think for a minute and even if it's not plausible for this case, to believe that it could be plausible-- and that makes all the difference. |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/05/02 at 00:02:31 |
| personal? yes i am taking it personal. either all or most muslims believe like this or the ones that have half a brain arent reacting to it or they do not have the guts to tell another muslim that they are being totally idiotic. This is my last post here so you can erase it or do whatever you want with it. Obviously there is nothing in the world, no proof that you would believe anyways so what would be the point. I responded to Mujahiid and Kashif's questions and all they did is say that i do not have the answers. Look at my last post on the subject when it was brought up before on last time. Oviously you are idiots. Myabe you should stop watching azzam and al jazeera and you would have half a clue on what is going on. All the poles show that a vast majority of mulsims do not believe that Osama or Al qaeda had anything to do with the attacks, but most believe that it was Israel, al this proves is they are ignorant people, where they get this ignorance i have no idea. look at the posts here, all it about is hatred of Israel. I am sorry , but yes i did take it personally, I am sure you will take this as an attack on muslims at that i am an ignorant person, but you know what, I bought the Koran, i read the koran, I looked at your websites, i read the articles on Azzam, Every time someone doesnt agree with muslims they tell you that you are listening to the media, well, you have no idea what i listen to or watch. I had never supported Israel until sept 11 and probably more important, to the muslims reaction to that event, it had nothing to do with our media, it had everything to do with muslims. Just one lst quick item, i am sorry if i offended the people who have been kind here, hamayon and hanif, you guys were great to talk to. |
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| jannah |
| 04/05/02 at 00:10:14 |
| itcorpest just as you have the right to call others "idiots" they have a right to believe in whatever they want to, whether you refuse to, or whether you think it's irrational or not. it's usually called freedom of speech ;) i'm sorry if this offends you, it is obviously not the intention here. because people here speculate sometimes does not mean very much if you ask me.. opinions here do not reflect all muslims etc etc. and if they speculate so what... so does the rest of the world... about the media, granted muslims should take your arguments into consideration without replying "it's all media bias etc", but maybe it's time people really take into consideration the media bias as well.. i don't know how israel got into your post, but it's true that many muslims do hate israel because if you turn on the news you can see how they are violating the human rights of another people. this any human being should find disgusting, not just muslims. |
| 04/06/02 at 13:53:10 |
| jannah |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| se7en |
| 04/05/02 at 01:51:43 |
| whoa!! y'all need to relax.. sit back.. [] everybody breathe with me: hooo... heee.. inhale good.. exhale bad.. inhale peach... exhale lime... [color=orange]inhale peach[/color] [color=lime]exhale lime[/color] okay feelin better ;) itscorpest.. I think you made a good point here when you said: [quote]why, is it because you hate america so much, that you will believe anything? [/quote] I think a lot of people do fall into this.. but, it's not fair for you to say that if someone questions the official story they must hate America. I personally don't believe the planes were hijacked by Israeli's, nor do I believe that the Pentagon crash was made up. (or that 4000 Jews were missing from the WTC, and all that other nonsense.) I do think the official story is sheisty, though, and that's not based on anti-American sentiment.. that's based on trying to piece things together from what was released to the media, and finding it lacking in a lot of ways. That might make me an idiot.. but that does not make me anti-American. In the same way Joe Columbo and Suzie Smithsonian have the right to question things, I do as well.. even though my skin is more brown than theirs and my faith is Islam. Ya dig? [quote]look at the posts here, all it about is hatred of Israel. [/quote] well.. okay. I'll admit that there is quite a bit of hatred towards Israel on this board, and in the Muslim community. But that's like saying to the Americans in pre-revolutionary war times, "man why is there so much hatred for the british???" Israel is a military occupying force, that has shown no respect for human rights, international law, or the sanctity of human life. Visit any human rights organization website (Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc) and read up on this stuff. This is not blind hatred. This is not said out of a blind loyalty to a people because they are Muslim [a lot of Palestinians are not Muslim], or a blind hatred to a people because they are Jewish [some Jews are against Israeli policy]. It's a basic human reaction to seeing injustice, violence against innocents, and oppression. [quote]I am sorry , but yes i did take it personally [/quote] I'm sorry for that. [quote] I am sure you will take this as an attack on muslims at that i am an ignorant person, but you know what, I bought the Koran, i read the koran, I looked at your websites, i read the articles on Azzam, Every time someone doesnt agree with muslims they tell you that you are listening to the media, well, you have no idea what i listen to or watch. [/quote] I don't know what you listen to or watch, and I try not to make those kind of assumptions about ppl. I don't think you're an ignorant person, because if you were, you wouldn't have taken the time to read up on all this stuff. I think though, that you've encountered just a few slices of the Muslim perspective. If you can tell me what you take issue with, or have problems with, I'd really like to discuss things with you. To be honest, I tend to stay away from the Ummah Community Center, just because in the past my temper has gotten the better of me here. Don't like to return to the scene of the crime, you know ;) But if we can get a good discussion goin on, I'll be here. Or if you want to hit me up in email: se7en@jannah.org [quote]Just one lst quick item, i am sorry if i offended the people who have been kind here, hamayon and hanif, you guys were great to talk to. [/quote] Those are both really good guys :) May Allah reward them. peace, se7en |
| 04/05/02 at 02:52:06 |
| se7en |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| explorer |
| 04/06/02 at 13:23:04 |
| [slm] Why would the US want to invent an attack on the Pentagon? To justify its war on terror? Surely the WTC with 3,000 + killed was more than enough of an excuse. Attacking the Pentagon only served to embass the US since one of its most secure and secretive sites was attacked. So why would the US put itself in this embarrassing position? Why not just bomb a few US and UK embassies in Africa with the help of Mossad, blame Bin laden and, bingo, you have your reason to attack Afghanistan? Wouldn't that be easier for the US? The again the US doesn't have to answer to anyone so why on earth would they attack their own prestigous Pentagon? Sorry, but this is one conspiracy theory gone too far. While some of the evidence seems tempting to suggest a conspiracy theory, the above questions need adequate and logical answers. These theories pop up all the time. If tommorrow a 747 ploughed into the White House, you can bet dozens of theories would pop up within hours blaming everything from Bin Laden to the Amazon people to aliens from Mars. |
| 04/06/02 at 13:25:16 |
| explorer |
| Re: US invented air attack on Pentagon |
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| M.F. |
| 04/06/02 at 16:42:16 |
| Well I do remember distinctly that at the ver beginning they first said a truck filled with explosives had exploded there. How could they possibly confuse a plane with a truck? I hadn't thought about it before but... really, how? It might not be that the US bombed itself, but maybe they just lied about the fact that it was a plane that crashed into the pentagon. See that would have been even more embarrassing for them because how the heck could they have let a truckfull of explosives get close enough to do that damage? |
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| Halima |
| 04/08/02 at 07:44:45 |
| Does anyone really need to get angry here? History is being written here with the events of September 11 and its aftermath. It gave Israel the go ahead to kill Paletinians at will. It is the only justification it need to do what is currently doing. And if anyone and by anyone I mean any human being who knows or can tell right from wrong, then what Isreal is doing is completely inhuman. Even with what is happening now, people and yes, Muslims still want to and are travel to America even if they do not agree with American Foreign Policy and it affinity with Israel. Not to cause havoc or destruction but to enjoy America as tourist spot, for education and settlement. I wonder if Israeliss with their history of the holocaust ever remember what it was like to be victims of a military power. Same people who suffered a great injustice are dishing out a horrifying kind of injustice. It is not only Muslims and the Muslim world that is horried and baffled by this but most of the world is. But everything that has a beginning has an ended too. The Holy Qur'aan says it all. And whether people debate this at the Ummah Centre or not, it is not because they are stupid, idiots or cowards. It is everyone's right to questions issues and events. |
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| Jenna |
| 04/08/02 at 16:54:49 |
| [color=Black] [wlm] SubhanAllah! all these post about 9/11 and how not to believe Muslims did it and so on, are basically trying to make you look at the evidence which the U.S. gave us and weigh the Validity of their statements. First off~ When the first two planes hit the towers, how come the pentagon was not evacuated?? It was a whole hour before the "plane" hit the pentegon. and yet when it did, there were "many" casulties, + the damage of the pentagon by this phantom "plane" does not fit with the version of their story.... Two~ The next (or should I say hours later) they knew that 16 "Arab" men did it, what they did the day before, their WHOLE intenerary, what weapons they used to hijack the plane (plastic spoons) yet, that could not forsee that a plane may hit the pentegon. Three~Where are the famous indestructable black boxes? These boxes would have so much info in them, as to whol did it etc... I believe they were found but they were too badly damage to get anything from them. Four~The buildings (when they collasped) did it look like they came down perfectlly? They did not explode but rather imploded. When ppl decide to bring a building down they place the dynomite a certain way so that only those buildings come down perfect and doesnt damage others. Those buildings (BOTH of them) can down soo perfectly. And the engeneers who built that building could not understand how that happened. Five~The U.S. somehow got this BIG evidence against Usama Bin Laden, YET, we the public couldnt even get a glimpse of that evidence and it was all in the name of National Security. Yet they want the public to hate this man without giving us any solid evidence as to why? Six~The U.S. went to the Al Qaida members and told them to give up Bin Laden, and when the Al Qaida ppl wanted to see the evidence firt, the U.S. refused, why?? Seven~They say Bin Laden wants a wholy war right? Then why doesnt he just admit that he did it? He got on T.V. after 9/11 and said he didnt do it, yet the U.S. claims he wants a holy war and thats why "he" did it. What stops bin Laden from admiting it?? They are already bombing and persecuting him?? Eight~ the evidence about the plane NOT hiting the pentagon. Nine~ and all this time Americans have been hating this man without a SHRED of evidence, think about it... ... We are not trying to tell you; DONT believe that Bin Laden did it, yet question Americas reports about it. There are so many holes in their stories, we jus want ppl to look at them and to understand that somethings not right here... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenna_UmmMuffin :-) [/color] |
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