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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Questions on Destiny and Predestination? |
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| Julie |
| 04/15/02 at 20:05:12 |
| I've got a quick question about the Islamic concept of destiny. I've gotten as far as this: [color=Blue]We will all face inevitable challenges/situations in life, but it's up to us how we react to those challenges or situations.[/color] The thing I'm confused about is that, from what I've read, an angel starts a book for us before we're born and writes down how long we'll live. Now say a person is only supposed to live to be 10 years old and dies on his or her tenth birthday in a car accident caused by a drunk driver. Does that mean then that we're supposed to have drunk drivers, murderers, and the likes in the world? People wouldn't normally die a natural death early in life, so there's got to be something out of the ordinary to cause their death. I'm stopping here because this all seems kind of depressing. Thanks in advance for your answers! Julie :) |
| 04/25/02 at 02:30:02 |
| jannah |
| Re: Question |
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| jannah |
| 04/15/02 at 22:30:50 |
| my kids at the mosque class i teach love this question!! it's a hard concept to understand. i just try to tell them that Allah knows everything so He knows how/when a person will die and where they will go. Then this is told to the angel to write down. Still that person who will drive drunk had that choice to drink or not, but Allah already knows what they were going to choose beforehand and since even though it was "written", it was still the person's "choice". . |
| Re: Question |
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| Abu_Atheek |
| 04/16/02 at 01:26:01 |
| [slm] [url]http://www.ourdialogue.com/p39.htm#1[/url] • Predetermination: Accountability though Allah determines fate [i]Is it true that Allah determines the fate of a person when he is still in the womb? How about people who disobey Allah: Is it His intention for them to be disobedient?[/i] As you are well aware, we are accountable to Allah for what we do in this life. He rewards us in accordance with our deeds. Hence, our deeds are chosen by us, since we have been given such a free choice. If we were denied such a choice and if our actions were determined for us by Allah, then it would not fit with Allah's justice that we should be accountable for them. There is some confusion in people's minds about this question. This confusion is compounded by a wrong understanding of some Hadiths like the following one: "The creation of each one of you is gathered together in his mother's belly for forty days in the form of a seed, then he is a clot of blood for a like period. The angel is then sent to him to blow the breath of life into him. He is commanded to write down four matters: his means of livelihood, life-span, actions, and whether happy or unhappy." (Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim). This writing down of these matters is not an imposition, except in such areas over which the man has no influence, such as duration of his life. When the angel writes a man's action, he simply documents that Allah has known long before the conception of that person in his mother's womb. We must not forget that Allah's knowledge is not increased as a result of any event of circumstances. He has known the number of human beings that would walk on earth, the fortune of each and every one of them, and the feelings of every single one of them at every moment of his or her life, long before the creation of Adam, the first human being. This is part of Allah's knowledge, but it is not predetermination, because Allah has created us with our free will and ability to choose. That ability must work within us. It is we who choose whether to obey Allah and disobey Him. Hence, we are accountable for our choices. |
| Re: Question |
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| Abu_Atheek |
| 04/16/02 at 01:40:50 |
| [slm] [url]http://www.ourdialogue.com/p39.htm#1[/url] • Predestination: Life span [i]May I take issue with you regarding an answer you had given concerning observation that life expectancy is much higher in Europe than it is in Muslim countries. In your answer you said that lifestyle is responsible for such differences. This is not true because it is reported in a Hadith that sometime after conception an angel is sent to the fetus to write down its provision, life span, actions and whether he or she will be happy or miserable. Hence, the duration of every-one's life is determined by what has been written at that time. Therefore, nothing that he does or omits to do will affect that. A person may smoke, eat fatty food, be lazy or do the opposite things, and his span of life will not be affected. Your answer was not based on any Islamic information, but on the so-called modern science. You would have done better to confine yourself to answers that are based on Islamic teachings.[/i] No sir, my answer has taken Islamic teachings into account, because God has instructed us to look around us and learn from the lessons that life events may place before our eyes. He says in the Qur'an: "Say: Reflect on what there is in the heaven and on earth. But of what benefit can signs and warnings be to the community that would not believe." The Qur'anic verses and the Hadiths that call on us to study, reflect, take heed and learn are numerous indeed. Besides, we have learned from Islam as well as from what we see around us that there is a law of cause and effect which operates by God's will. For example, fire burns. Therefore, when you put something close to a fire, it is burned. If you light up a match and put your finger on top of its flame, you will immediately feel a burning sensation. If you do not, no such feeling will be experienced by you. This is an example of the working of the law of cause and effect. You do not place your finger close to the flame of a match and say that God's will may prevent the fire from burning it. It is certainly true that God may stop the action of the fire, but it is His will that fire should burn. Therefore, when we place things in a fire they are burned. This applies to everything and all conditions and situations in life. A person who smokes has a much higher risk of suffering one of the serious diseases that smoking causes, such as a wide variety of cancer, cardiovascular diseases, chronic bronchitis, etc. Most of these are fatal. Therefore, the effect of being a heavy smoker is likely to be the suffering of one or more of these diseases, any of which can cause death. That same person would most probably not suffer from the disease which kills him if he does not smoke. If we were to say that he would still have suffered the same disease, which is caused by nicotine or carbon monoxide, when he did not have either of them through smoking, then we are saying that an object could be burned without a fire, or drowned without coming near water. Perhaps you would say that he might not have suffered that disease, but he would still die at the same moment, by some other reason. I would say that we do not know that, but most probably he would have lived longer, because he would be enjoying better health over a longer period of his life. Here we come to the Hadith which you have mentioned, and which is at the center of this argument. There is no doubt that the Hadith is authentic. Let us not speak about the details of the writing and why it should be written, or where it is written, etc. We know than an angel writes down four things, including the duration of the life of the yet unborn baby. Now, the angel does not determine that duration. It is God who determines it, according to His knowledge which is perfect, absolute, unlimited by the confines of time or place. I have explained on several occasions that God's knowledge is perfect and complete. Nothing is added to it as a result of any event, because time does not apply to God in the same way as it applies to us. When God instructs the angel to write these four things, He is fully aware what the person concerned will be doing in his life and what harm he will cause to himself and what damage to his health he may perpetrate. He takes into account the effect of all these on his health and knows whether he will have lung cancer as a result of smoking or coronary heart disease as a result of drinking, or he would be obese as a result of overeating and lack of exercise. So He gives him forty or fifty or sixty years of life in accordance with the effect of so many factors on his health and on his life as a whole. God will certainly give a longer life duration to a person whom He knows will be following a healthy lifestyle. [color=Red]Now the choice of lifestyle is a personal choice, which we do by our own free will. Had our actions been imposed on us by God's will, then God would not have held us to account for what we do in this life. It is because He has given us free will that He subjects us to His judgment on the day of resurrection.[/color] He knows that what we do is our own personal choice. Therefore, we cannot escape the consequences. Moreover, there are authentic Hadiths which speak of prolonging life. In one of these, the Prophet is quoted as saying: "He who likes to be given an increase of provisions and a longer duration of life should be dutiful to his parents." Another Hadith which uses the same wording in its first part mentions that the results of increased provisions and longer life depend on being kind to one's close relatives. Again, dutifulness to parents and kindness to relatives are things that we do by our own free will. They are not imposed on us. But we should reflect that both the things that depend on them — increased provisions and longer life — are written down by the angel when everyone of us is still a fetus. Scholars have explained this and given two points by way of explanation. The first is that they point out a fact to which reference is made in Verse 39 of Surah 13 which includes this statement: "God may erase or confirm whatever He pleases." This is in direct reference to what is written concerning the future. So, what has been written may be changed as a result of what we do. The other explanation is that when the angel is given his instructions to write down four things, he is told to write: "This person shall live for sixty years if he is not dutiful to his parents, but will continue to live until he is seventy if he is dutiful to them." Now, God knows in advance that the person concerned will be dutiful or not dutiful and at what moment exactly he will die. The angel does not know. Therefore, the extension in the person's age as a result of his actions is true in relation to all creatures, including human beings, angels and all living things on earth and in the wide universe. To God the extension is known in advance. Could we not say that the same thing applies in relation to the lifestyle that we follow. To my understanding, the way God has created us and the world around us makes it clear that it is His will that we will be affected by a wide variety of causes. Therefore, if we lead a healthy lifestyle we are likely to live longer than if we are heedless of all the lessons that life brings to us. |
| 04/16/02 at 01:44:13 |
| Abu_Atheek |
| Re: Question |
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| Abu_Atheek |
| 04/16/02 at 01:57:08 |
| [slm] [url]http://www.ourdialogue.com/p39.htm#1[/url] • Predestination: Life expectancy [i]It is our firm belief, supported by the Qur'an and the Sunnah, that a man's life is predetermined by Allah. Nevertheless, people say that in such and such country, life expectancy is longer; or, if this and that are done, people can live longer; or if such and such precautions are taken, a person or a group of people would have been saved, and so on. By leading a simple and disciplined life one can have a peaceful go, but cannot cross the "deadline". Please comment.[/i] There is a simple law which applies to human life as well as to the universe in general. Indeed, it has a direct bearing on the task Allah has assigned to man when He first created him, namely, building human life on earth. That is the law of cause and effect. No individual or community can ignore this law or its implications without suffering disastrous consequences. Let us take a simple example: When a certain area has a good rainy season, agricultural produce is bound to be plentiful. A drought means shortage of supply and, in consequence, higher prices, poverty, hunger and even famine. If a country knows from experience that it has a "dry" winter every two or three years when rain is scarce, it can plan ahead and preserve certain supplies in order to alleviate the effects of the drought. Allah gives us in the Qur'an a very good example of this when He tells us that Prophet Yousuf foretold the king of Egypt that after seven years of good harvest, the land will go through a patch of terrible drought lasting another seven years. A program of preparedness for the forthcoming emergency was devised and put into operation. It was Yousuf himself who supervised it and the people of Egypt and the surrounding areas were able to live through the drought period without much affliction. If someone suggests that without that program of preparedness, which meant stocking more than half of the harvest, in the first seven good seasons, the population would not have suffered any consequences and those who managed to live easily would have continued to live in the same way and no one would have starved, then we can only tell him that he does not know what he is talking about. A drought of seven consecutive years will play havoc with the lives of the population of any country. However, the people of Egypt were able to stand this long hardship because of the wise policy adopted by Yousuf, peace be upon him. That was a good example of how the law of cause and effect works. What we need to know is that it does not contradict Allah's will because it is part of it. It is Allah who set that law in operation and allowed its consequences to be fulfilled. It only needs a little stretch of the mind to understand that this law is also part of predestination, in its broad, Islamic sense. Let us take another example. Until recently smallpox was a major childhood disease which caused death and a great deal of suffering to millions of victims every year. As a result of a worldwide campaign of vaccination, smallpox has disappeared from the face of the earth. It is now 16 years since the last known case of smallpox was recorded in Somalia. Many of us remember friends, relatives or schoolmates who fell victim to this disease. Some of us still have its effects on our faces and bodies. Without that long campaign of vaccination, smallpox would have still been with us, causing untold suffering to our children. There is no doubt that smallpox has disappeared by Allah's will, but the medium of its eradication was the vaccination campaign undertaken by man in fulfillment of Allah's will. Can anyone suggest that smallpox would have disappeared from the face of the earth in 1977 whether the campaign of vaccination was organized or not? A similar effort of immunization of children against six major childhood diseases is going on, with the eradication of one of them, polio, being clearly in sight. As efforts of monitoring the effects of the program show, incidence of these diseases have dropped with increased coverage of children with immunization. Since most of these diseases could kill their victims, the fall in occurrence has meant a commensurate drop in child mortality as a result of these illnesses. You have only to look at facts and figures to realize that in a certain country, the number of children dying with, say, measles, is half what it was ten years ago after the rate of coverage with vaccination against measles has reached 50 percent of the children of that country. Are we not required by Islam to relate these facts to each other and draw the appropriate conclusions which will tell us that a 100 percent coverage of children with immunization will inevitably mean that the occurrence of the disease will be minimal if not stopped completely. Human beings fall ill and then they do recover. Do we ask ourselves how and why? When a person falls ill, he is required by Islam to seek medical treatment if it is available. The Prophet tells us to seek medical treatment because, as he puts it, "Allah has not created an illness without creating a cure for it." This is a good example of cause and effect. When you take a medicine, you are cured by Allah's will, because He has put into that particular medicine the qualities which enable the human body to overcome a certain disease. The Prophet tells us that "a human being cannot fill a worse container than his stomach." He also advises us that if we want to eat our fill, let us divide our tummy into three portions, one for food, one for drink and one for breathing. By giving us this valued advice, the Prophet is certainly showing us one way to avoid disease. Medicine has established for certain that the consumption of particular substances is associated with certain diseases. Cigarette smoking, for example, has been established as a direct cause of lung cancer, cardiovascular diseases and other types of cancer. On the basis of this certainty, the majority of scholars are giving rulings that tobacco consumption is forbidden in Islam. They argue that Allah would not permit us to use a substance which is likely to cause killer diseases. Does not their ruling tell us that Islam recognizes the fact that by avoiding such a substance, we spare ourselves the possibility of falling victim to these diseases? Similarly, a healthy diet is important for health. When a person eats "rich" food, which means that his diet has a large proportion of fat and sugar, he is liable to put on weight and if he is in the habit of "washing down" his fatty meal with a couple of drinks, he exposes himself to increased risk of a heart attack. Are we not, as Muslims, required to relate these scientifically proven facts to the Hadith which I have just quoted? When we do so, we conclude that Islam likes its followers to have a balanced diet which also means that they should not eat too much. But why would Islam want us to do so when what has been written will take place whatever we do? If the death of a particular person will occur at a particular moment of time, whether he follows a healthy lifestyle or not, why should it matter what he eats, drinks, smokes, etc.? Is it true that there is a "deadline" which no one can cross? May I ask in this connection why does Islam prescribe capital punishment for a murder? And why is a martyr rewarded with heaven in addition to forgiveness of all his past sins? If the victim of a murderer would have died any way when the weapon of the murderer caused his death and if the martyr would have died at the same moment whether he was fighting for Allah's cause or not, then the severity of the punishment in the first case and the abundance of the reward in the second can be called into question. There is no doubt in my mind that the punishment for murderer is the right one and the reward of a martyr is the one which is most befitting with Allah's grace and generosity. It is true that a murdered person died at the point in time when his life ended, as it was known to Allah long before the creation of man. But if the murderer did not pull the trigger and the bullet did not hit the victim, that victim would not have died at that particular moment. Read, if you will, the Hadith which states, "He who likes to have his provisions increased and his life extended should be kind to his relatives." Here the Prophet is speaking of an extended life duration. We should not explain his statement away as meant figuratively, because it is not. What he tells us is the truth. All the above examples can be easily understood within the general framework of the law of cause and effect which Allah has set into operation. Therefore, it works with Allah's will and as a means of bringing about what He determined. Most of our actions are done by our free will. This means that it is up to us to do them or not. It is up to me to sit at this moment of time and write this answer to your question. I can easily stop and go and do something else. Similarly, you could have decided not to send your question to me. If you did not, I would not be writing on the subject. By the same token, the murderer could have refrained from pulling the trigger and his victim would have lived. That does not mean that he would have violated Allah's will because it is also Allah's will for a man to live if he is not hit by a bullet in his head or in his heart. The same man will meet his death sometime later when a different cause of death will have occurred. Its occurrence is also part of what Allah has predetermined. If all the people on earth have access to safe drinking water and proper sanitation to dispose of their waste and if all people have their children vaccinated, a 50 percent reduction in the incident of diseases would be achieved. You will probably agree if half the illnesses suffered by mankind are avoided, the other half will cause less deaths. What that means in your terminology is that "the deadline" for the end of the life of many of us would be changed by Allah's will as He has already predetermined for man's life. |
| Re: Question |
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| Dawn |
| 04/16/02 at 05:57:49 |
| The replies are nice, but they don't seem to have addressed Julie's question. This is one which I struggle with also -- i.e., the preordained existance of, for lack of a better word, evil/tragedy/disasters. However, without wishing to hijack the thread, I also still have a problem with the coexistance of free will and a preordained life. Logically, the two quite simply are mutually exclusive. One axiom seems to be that God knows exactly what we are going to do, in every detail. The other axiom seems to be that we have free will, i.e., freedom of choice. But these two can't coexist in a closed system. They are contradictory. We may feel like we have choices, think we have a semblance of control, etc., but if all is already known, then we do not. The only way I have been able to resolve (sort of) for myself is by re-examining exactly what it means to be omniscient. Certainly one way to interpret the word is the perfect knowledge of the exact timeline that events will take. Another, which seems to me a better, more comprehensive fit, is the perfect knowledge of all potential timelines and their associated probabilities. Clearly, the past and present can be completely known, as there (so far as we know, anyway) are only one of each of them. However, the future can have any number of outcomes, if humans truely have free will. Again, this is just what I have reasoned out so far. I realize there are large holes in it, but I am not sure I am ready to drop either God's omniscience or my free will as axioms. So, until I figure it all out, I content myself with the fact that God is far more knowing/knowledgable than I will ever comprehend, and it is simply up to me to come to a coherent, albeit limited, understanding of that, given the faculties that I have been given. On a side note, the more we learn about the brain, the more I begin to question exactly how free our "free will" actually is. <<< sigh >> Peace, Dawn |
| 04/16/02 at 08:18:38 |
| Dawn |
| Re: Question |
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| BrKhalid |
| 04/16/02 at 11:23:03 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Julie and Dawn I don't think you guys are the first to be confused and you certainly won’t be the last!!! It’s a tough concept to get to grips with and (in my opinion) very hard to explain without actually talking to someone about it. But anyway here's my stab at it. [quote]Now say a person is only supposed to live to be 10 years old and dies on his or her tenth birthday in a car accident caused by a drunk driver. Does that mean then that we're supposed to have drunk drivers, murderers, and the likes in the world?[/quote] Humans have been given limited free will. If they choose to become drunk drivers or murderers then that is their choice. The fact that Allah knows their choice *before* they make it does not negate their free will. [quote]We may feel like we have choices, think we have a semblance of control, etc., but if all is already known, then we do not.[/quote] Dawn I can see your point, but why does Allah knowing what you will do in any given situation impede on your free will? [Quote]Clearly, the past and present can be completely known, as there (so far as we know, anyway) are only one of each of them. However, the future can have any number of outcomes, if humans truely have free will[/quote] The future can have many outcomes but once a decision is made then there is only *one* outcome and hence only one future. After all, the past was yesterday's future. A small example. If I tell you to pick a number between 1 and 10, there are 10 possible outcomes and you may ponder on which number to pick. But once you've picked a number (say the number 7) you've made a decision based on your free will. The fact that Allah knew that you were going to pick that number doesn't negate your free will. Thus, just as Allah knows what number you will pick, He also knows the decisions others will make using their free will. His knowledge is perfect, so much so that He has already written down everything that people will do with their free will. The following Hadith is helpful here I think: It is reported on the authority of `Ubadah Ibn As-Samit (ra ) that he said to his son: "Oh, son! You will never taste true faith until you know that whatever afflicts you would not have missed you, and whatever has missed you would never have come to you. I heard the Messenger of Allah (saas ) say: "The first thing Allah (swt ) created was the pen; He commanded it to write. It said: "My Rabb! What shall I write?" [color=Red]He said: "Write down what has been ordained for all things until the establishment of the Hour." [/color] Oh, my son! I heard Allah's Messenger (saas ) say: "Whoever dies believing something other than this does not belong to me." [quote]I also still have a problem with the coexistance of free will and a preordained life[/quote] For "preordained" life think "already written, based on your free will" life. [quote]This is one which I struggle with also -- i.e., the preordained existance of, for lack of a better word, evil/tragedy/disasters[/quote] For "preordained existence of evil" think "already written actions, arising from humans misusing their free will" Okay I think I've written enough. InshaAllah I've been more of a help than a hindrance and any mistakes contained therein are mine alone. As ever Allah knows best Wasalaam Br Khalid |
| 04/16/02 at 11:27:12 |
| BrKhalid |
| Re: Question |
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| Dawn |
| 04/16/02 at 14:46:57 |
| [quote] The fact that Allah knows their choice *before* they make it does not negate their free will. ... Dawn I can see your point, but why does Allah knowing what you will do in any given situation impede on your free will?[/quote] I guess here is my quandry. Say I have a choice to make between A and B. Assume that an angel asks Allah what I am going to choose and Allah says A. Now, this is not known to me, and I am deliberating between the two. However, since Allah knows that I am going to choose A, I cannot choose B. And this is the crux of the problem. I may think I have a choice, it may feel to me like I have a choice, I may be convinced that I do indeed have a choice and so I choose A. But in reality, I do not, as I can't choose B, though I don't know that. See my problem? Perhaps it is really an issue of definition of "free will", I do not know. And I am not a philosopher trained in all the arguments and definitions, so I struggle. :( Peace, Dawn |
| 04/16/02 at 14:48:47 |
| Dawn |
| Re: Question |
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| jannah |
| 04/16/02 at 15:31:35 |
| [quote]However, since Allah knows that I am going to choose A, I cannot choose B[/quote] That's the thing though at that moment in time YOU CAN choose B, but God is beyond time and already knows what you are going to choose because He knows the future. It's like if I traveled into the future and wrote down Billybob joe is going to get drunk saturday and mow down a fence post and then i come back to now. Billybob still has his choice to drink or not come saturday night. My knowing doesn't preclude his actions. Now what will really boggle your mind is if you travel to the future, find out what's going to happen, come back and try to change something. Will you be able to? Will everything change? Hence some fascinating episodes of Star Trek:TNG dealing with space-time continuum ;) Man I miss that show!! |
| Re: Question |
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| Julie |
| 04/16/02 at 20:18:27 |
| [quote]It's like if I traveled into the future and wrote down Billybob joe is going to get drunk saturday and mow down a fence post and then i come back to now. Billybob still has his choice to drink or not come saturday night. My knowing doesn't preclude his actions. [/quote] No, but isn't there a difference between you knowing that and God knowing that? You, as a human being, were only given the opporunity in this example to see the future. God doesn't only see the future, but He also plans the future (isn't there something about God being the best of planners?). Unless some of the future is left unplanned, then we have no free will because all of our actions are interwoven. My writing this reply is going to affect other people. Had I not written it, the future would be different. That means that I'm being forced to write certain things because otherwise everything would change. I must be missing some basic point because this is so confusing. :'( [quote]my kids at the mosque class i teach love this question!![/quote] Are they any easier to teach than us? Julie :) |
| Re: Question |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 04/17/02 at 01:34:40 |
| [slm] The best way I can explain this is that we (as human beings) are not forced to choose what we *do*. What we do in different situations and circumstances, how we *act*, is up to our own free will. However, the circumstances themselves, the different situations that we go through in life, those are pre-destined by Allah (swt). And those are things that are forced upon us in that we cannot change the situation/circumstances, only He can. Now, can Allah (swt) put us in a situation where it is a *lot* easier for us to choose A over B? Absolutely! And it happens all the time. If A is good and B is bad, then this type of situation would be called hidaayah [guidance]. And this would be out of the rahmah [compassion] of Allah (swt). If A is bad and B is good, then this type of situation would be called ibtilaa or fitnah [trial, tribulation]. So when we choose to do A over B, or B over A, it is *us* who are making the choice. And thus, we are exercising our free will. However, the situation we are in is because Allah (swt) put us in it. And we wouldn't be in it if Allah (swt) had not willed us to be in it. Make sense? |
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| momineqbal |
| 04/17/02 at 03:19:49 |
| [slm], How about the covenant Allah made with us? It is reported in a hadith as I heard from one speaker recently, that Allah brought out each one us from Adam and took a covenant that we will worship none but Him (swt) and then He erased it from our memory. To us what seems to matter is that we have a choice to chose between the two ways and Allah (swt) also has provided us guidance on which way to chose. It simply doesn't matter to *us* that Allah (swt) already knows what our choice is going to be. We by our very nature that Allah has provided us have got to chose nevertheless. Also there is nothing that Allah doesn't know until the end of time. That Allah is the best of planners is in a different context. It doesn't mean Allah has "planned" for something, or he has left something unplanned. Whatever has happenned and whatever will happen is not "unexpected" or unknown for Allah (swt). On a side note: That Adam and Hawwa (Eve) (pbuh) will disobey Allah (swt) was also known to Allah (swt), otherwise how else would Allah say that He is going to send a vicegerent on earth even before creating Adam (pbuh) and before Adam and Eve (pbuh) had sinned? (2:30-39). Allahu 'Alam Eqbal |
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| sofia |
| 04/17/02 at 11:00:52 |
| As-salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah, peace A few related questions from Islam Q/A sites. Hope it helps. ------------------------------------------------------------- Question: Are Muslims fatalists? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. Fatalists are those who think that a person has no choice in what he does and is compelled to do it, and that his actions are like the actions of a tree which is moved by the wind. Their opposites are those who think that a person creates or initiates his own deeds. The Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah (Sunni Muslims who follow the way of the Prophet (saws) (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) follow a middle path between these two extremes and believe that man has a free will but that this will is subject to the Will of Allaah. A person does not initiate his own deeds, neither is he compelled to do what he does; he can decide for himself, within the framework of the Will of Allaah. And Allaah knows best. Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com) ---------------------------------------------------- Free Will and Predestination Q. Please explain what is the concept of fate in Islam. We Muslims say that Allah knows everything. He knows what is going to happen to us and He knows what our end will be. If Allah knows all these things, so why are we being judged? We don't have our own will to do anything; in that case whatever we may do Allah already has our fate decided. Please reply. (Florida) A. by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi. We do not use the word "fate" in Islam. The word "fate" means "the power that determines the outcome of events before they occur". Some people believe in fate as an independent and invisible power that controls their destinies. Such people are called "fatalists". A Muslim is not a fatalist person. Muslims believe in Allah and only Allah has the power to predetermine anything. Allah is "al-Qadir" (the All Powerful or Omnipotent) and "al-'Aleem" (the All Knower, Omniscient). Since Allah has power over everything, He must know everything. He must know things before they happen, because if He knew things after they happened, He would not have full power over them. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala not only knows things, but He also decides and determines everything in His universe. Whatever happens in this world happens according to Allah's decision and plan. In Islamic terminology this principle is known as "al-qada wa al-qadar"(the decision and determination of Allah). It is a very important principle of Iman (faith). Does this mean that we human beings have no freedom? It seems that way apparently to some people. One Western scholar put the problem very interestingly in the following words: "If God knows everything He must know the future, and if He knows the future, He must know the future acts of His creatures. But then His creatures must act, as He knows they will act. How then can they be free?" There are many people who became confused by looking at the problem in this way. There were also some Muslim thinkers who believed that human beings have no freedom. They were called "Jabriyah". The majority of Muslim scholars did not accept this position, they strongly criticized and condemned this position and considered it against the teachings of the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah. The mainstream Muslim position is that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has the knowledge of all things and He has the power over all things. Allah, however, has also granted freedom to human beings. Allah's power and foreknowledge do not mean that human beings have no freedom, nor does human freedom negate Allah's power and foreknowledge. Human beings are free only as much as Allah has granted them the freedom. However, inspite of our human freedom we are still under the control of Allah and within His knowledge. Allah will judge us according to the freedom and responsibility that He gave us. He knows very well how much freedom we have and to what extent we are able to exercise our freedom, each one of us in our own circumstances. It is for this reason that we say that only Allah is the True and Final Judge. In the Qur'an He is called "Ahkam al-hakimin" (the best of all the judges). When we carefully examine our own selves and the world around us, we see two things very clearly. On the one hand we find ourselves overwhelmed by forces that are apparently beyond our decision and control, but on the other hand we do experience real freedom and we make our choices between various options. Thus the truth is that we are free and we are determined both at the same time. Our freedom is very limited, nevertheless it does exist and it is the deciding factor for our responsibility and consequently for the eternal reward or punishment. In the Qur'an Allah has spoken about His control and power as well as human freedom and responsibility. Both aspects are very clearly mentioned in the Qur'an. The best way to understand and interpret the Qur'an is to keep both of these aspects in mind. We should not emphasize our freedom at the expense of Allah's power and knowledge, nor should we speak about Allah's power and knowledge by negating and denying our own freedom and responsibility. Maulana Maududi -may Allah bless his soul- in his book Qada and Qadar (in Urdu) collected both types of verses from the Qur'an. Following a selection of these Qur'anic statements. On Allah's power and control: All power belongs to Allah (al-Baqarah 2:165). Say, Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One the Mighty (al-Ra'd 13:16). Allah has created you and all that you do (al-Saffat 37:96). No female conceives, nor does she bring forth a child save with His knowledge. And no one is granted long life, nor is anything diminished of its life, but it is all recorded in a book... (al-Fatir 35:11). No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence. That is truly easy for Allah. In order that you may not despair over matters that pass you by, not exult over favors bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster" (al-Hadid 57:22-23). To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth. He enlarges the provisions for whomsoever He pleases and straitens it for whomsoever He pleases. Surely He knows all things full well (al-Shura 42:12). And say not of anything, 'I shall do it tomorrow', unless Allah wills... (al-Kahf 18:23-24). If Allah touch you with affliction there is none to remove it but He; and if He touch you with happiness, then He has power to do all that He wills (al-An'am 6:17). Whom Allah will, He lets go astray, and whom He wills, He places on the right path (al-An'am 6:39). Do you desire to guide him whom Allah has caused to perish? And for him whom Allah causes to perish you shall not find a way (al-Nisa' 4:88). If your Lord has enforced His will, surely, all those who are on the earth would have believed together. Will you then force people to become believers? And none can believe except by the permission of Allah (Yunus 10:99-100). On Human Freedom and Responsibility: Neither according to your desires, nor according to the desires of the People of the Book, whosoever will do evil will be requited accordingly and shall not find beside Allah any protector or helper. If any do deeds of righteousness, be they male or female, and have faith, they will enter heaven and not the least injustice will be done to them (al-Nisa' 4:123-124). This because Allah does never change a favor that He has conferred upon a people until they change their own condition... (al-Anfal 9:53). Every person stands pledged for what he has earned (al-Tur 52:21). It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let his who will, believe, and let him who will, disbelieve (al-Kahf 18:29). This is a reminder. So let him, who will, take a way unto his Lord (al-Muzzammil 73:19). And hasten towards forgiveness from your Lord... (Al 'Imran 3:133). O our people, respond to God's summoner and believe in him (al-Ahqaf 46:31). Turn to your Lord and submit yourselves to Him... (al-Zumar 39:54). Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what people's hands have wrought (al-rum 30:41). Whatever misfortune befalls you is the consequence of what your own hands have wrought. And Allah forgive many of your sins (al-Shura 42:30). Indeed Allah does not wrong the people at all, it is they wrong their own selves (Yunus 10:44). As for Thamud, We guided them, but they preferred blindness to guidance (Fussilat 41:17). There is no compulsion in religion. Surely the right way has become distinct from error (al-Baqarah 2:256). The Qur'an has no contradictions. Allah's power and knowledge and human freedom are not mutually exclusive. Whatever freedom we have is granted to us by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and we should use it to submit to Him freely and willingly. This is the honor that Allah has given us and for this honor angels were asked by Allah to bow in respect and honor of the progenitor of the human race Adam -may the peace of Allah be upon him. |
| NS |
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| lightningatnite |
| 04/17/02 at 22:56:41 |
| Salam, I once posed the question of Free Will vs. Determinism to Dr. Jamal Badawi. He answered using this logic: I ask you, are you able to make choices? Of course you can. If you deny this, you are crazy. At every given moment we are making choices, decisions, and moral judgements. So, Free will exists, agreed? Now don't confuse yourself after this point by saying that you don't have free will. If you think in any way that you don't have free will, stop reading here. Are you still reading? See...you do have a free will, you just made a choice to continue, I caught you! :) Now, does God have foreknowledge of everything that will occur? I would say no. Foreknowledge implies knowledge of an event preceding its actualization within the stream of time. God is the creator of time. How can He, or His Qualities, be bound by it? God's knowledge is not foreknowledge, it is infinite knowledge. So was the knowledge that you would continue reading this within God's infinite knowledge? Yes. But did His knowledge precede your action? No. There is no concept of before and after in the world of the infinite. Hmm...about the Problem of Evil, saying God is All-Powerful, why is there evil in the world? Evil is a human quality. Evil is a moral choice. A snake is not evil, though we perceive it to be by our standards. A snake only acts according to its nature, which God gave it. A human, on the other hand, can betray his God given nature, and thus be evil. Going back to Julie's example about he car accident...Julie, you wouldn't say the car accident was evil would you? A car accident is just an event, it cannot carry the quality of evil. But the drunk person, is he evil? Yes, definitely. So God is just, He will enter the 10 year old into heaven, and the drunk driver, if he is not forgiven, to hell. What is the problem here? A Muslim would say, mashaAllah, that was the Will of Allah. We only get disturbed when we think of the worldly life as being worth everything. In that case, we'd say, oh, poor boy, he was only ten, it wasn't his time... Even in the Jewish/Christian culture, acts of God are never called evil. Its a natural understanding within the psyche. We never say, oh man, that earthquake was so evil! So the problem of evil is a human problem, its not God's problem. |
| 04/18/02 at 19:11:02 |
| lightningatnite |
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| Dawn |
| 04/18/02 at 10:00:57 |
| [quote] Now, does God have foreknowledge of everything that will occur? I would say no. Foreknowledge implies knowledge of an event preceding its actualization within the stream of time. God is the creator of time. How can He, or His Qualities, be bound by it? God's knowledge is not foreknowledge, it is infinite knowledge. So was the knowledge that you would continue reading this within God's infinite knowledge? Yes. But did His knowledge precede your action? No. There is no concept of before and after in the world of the infinite. [/quote] This is, essentially, what I have come to conclude (though phrased far better than I would have thought to put it :) ), and my notion of God seeing all possible futures is my way of trying to quantify this to myself. Since we are bound in time, it is highly difficult, if not impossible, to imagine what it is like to not be bound by time, so we have to make do with what little we have. ::) On a separate note, I have been pondering it for a couple of days now, and I think we are spinning our wheels concerning the notion of "free will" simply because the term means different things to different people. If I am reading most of the posts correctly, the definition most people seem to have of free will is that perception we have of being able to freely make decisions, perform actions, etc. I think my definition was more in absolute terms, and less self-relational. However, I am perfectly willing to adopt what appears to be the majority definition, and re-label what I previously was referring to as free will as something else. In which case, there is no conflict between this definition of free will and an omniscient God. Hopefully this will clear up some of the linguistical confusion. :) (Now I have to come up with a new name for my previously named "free will", as that notion remains in conflict with omniscience. Hmm, any suggestions?) Peace, Dawn |
| 04/18/02 at 10:51:48 |
| Dawn |
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| eleanor |
| 04/18/02 at 10:17:39 |
| hmmm.. maybe [i]exclusive[/i] free will ??? |
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| Julie |
| 04/18/02 at 14:06:11 |
| [quote author=lightningatnite link=board=lighthouse;num=1018915513;start=0#13 date=04/17/02 at 22:56:41] Now, does God have foreknowledge of everything that will occur? I would say no. Foreknowledge implies knowledge of an event preceding its actualization within the stream of time. God is the creator of time. How can He, or His Qualities, be bound by it? God's knowledge is not foreknowledge, it is infinite knowledge. So was the knowledge that you would continue reading this within God's infinite knowledge? Yes. But did His knowledge precede your action? No. There is no concept of before and after in the world of the infinite. Hmm...about the Problem of Evil, saying God is All-Powerful, why is there evil in the world? Evil is a human quality. Evil is a moral choice. A snake is not evil, though we perceive it to be by our standards. A snake only acts according to its nature, which God gave it. A human, on the other hand, can betray his God given nature, and thus be evil. Going back to Julie's example about he car accident...Julie, you wouldn't say the car accident was evil would you? A car accident is just an event, it cannot carry the quality of evil. But the drunk person, is he evil? Yes, definitely. So God is just, he will enter the 10 year old into heaven, and the drunk driver, if he is not forgiven, to hell. What is the problem here? A Muslim would say, mashaAllah, that was the Will of Allah. We only get disturbed when we think of the worldly life as being worth everything. In that case, we'd say, oh, poor boy, he was only ten, it wasn't his time... [/quote] That makes 10x more sense! The light bulb goes on!!! :-[ Julie :) |
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| WhatDFish |
| 04/19/02 at 03:42:08 |
| just to add on . . . . THE FREE WILL OF THE HUMAN BEING An important aspect of Islam is that every human being has free will to choose between right and wrong. Allah has honored humanity with this great gift. Human free will does not in any way contradict the fact that Allah knows everything that will ever occur in Creation and that what Allah knows must come to pass. The fact that Allah knows what a person is going to do tomorrow does not mean that He is forcing that person’s hand. Someone might ask: 'If Allah knows that I, for instance, am going to commit murder tomorrow, then it is unavoidable that I do so, because Allah’s Knowledge is infallible and what Allah knows must come to pass. Therefore, I have no free will. My free will is but an illusion.' The answer to this is quite simple: Allah’s perspective is quite different from that of a human being. Allah is timeless. His Divine Knowledge is equally timeless. The notions of past, present, and future have meaning only to a being existing in time. Allah knows, in His timelessness, every decision that a person makes of his or her own free will at every moment of his or her life. This in no way negates that each one of this person’s decisions is made by this person of his or her own free will. Allah’s knowledge of this person’s decision does not imply that he or she is being compelled to make that decision. Human free will does not in any way contradict the fact that Allah has absolute sovereignty over everything in Creation. Nor does it contradict that fact that nothing happens in Creation except what Allah wills. Allah created within the human being the ability to formulate an intention. Allah wants people to be able to make their own choices. When a person makes a choice, Allah, by his Divine Will, creates the actions and circumstances that allow the person’s intention to be carried out. It is Allah’s Will that human beings have free will. Allah wants people to make their own decisions, whether these decisions are right or wrong. Allah is not always pleased with the decisions that people make, but He wants them to be able to make these decisions on their own. By exercising free will, a person can attain a level higher than that of the angels. This is because a person who decides to worship Allah does so because he or she wants to. This makes the person’s devotions greater and more valuable than those of the angels, because the angels have no choice. It is the nature of angels to worship and obey Allah in all things. THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION It follows from this emphasis on free will that Islam must only be accepted on the basis of free choice. The purpose of human life is to worship Allah of one’s own free will. Matters of faith, therefore, only have value if they are accepted on the basis of choice. If a person is coerced into accepting the religion, his or her acceptance is not real and has no value whatsoever. Allah says: “There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has become distinct from error. So whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is all-Hearing, All-Knowing.” [Qur’aan 2:256] |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/23/02 at 15:55:21 |
| [quote]One axiom seems to be that God knows exactly what we are going to do, in every detail. The other axiom seems to be that we have free will, i.e., freedom of choice. But these two can't coexist in a closed system. They are contradictory. We may feel like we have choices, think we have a semblance of control, etc., but if all is already known, then we do not.[/quote] slm, I have only skimmed this discussion so I am not sure if someone has already mentioned this. Please forgve me if I am repeating what has already been said. The key to understanding Freewill and Predestination is that Allah's Knowledge is not an effectual attribute. Power is an effectual attribute and so is Will. Thus to answer the question if everything is known than how can we have a choice? The answer: Allah Willed us to have a will. Humans are forced to have a choice. We have acquision and choice. We earn our actions. We do not create them. Allah creates the action and we aqcuire it bc we had a choice. We are rewarded and punished for how we acquire our actions not for the physical action. Acquision is a connection between our will and the action Allah created. |
| Re: Questions on Destiny and Predestination? |
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| jannah |
| 04/25/02 at 02:51:13 |
| [slm] all :) It's interesting that this debate has been going on for centuries. And unfortunately in the past people have taken this to an extreme that the extent of their beliefs continued along a weird path and ended up taking them out of Islam. There were those who said that they had complete free will to do whatever they wanted. Allah was a far off god that didn't interfere in the lives of man --these beliefs led to other beliefs that Allah didn't know what people were doing, that He knew only the General and not the specific! Then there were those who said we have no control over anything. We are like feathers in the wind, wherever it takes us, we go. Yet this completely ignores the concept of judgement and accountability in Islam. Therefore Islam's true view here is the moderate view, the one in the middle. We neither believe that everything we do is out of our hands and we don't believe that everything we do is outside of Allah's Will and Wisdom. Anyway a nice little book on the subject is called Fate & Predestination by Sh. Mohammad M. Al-Sha'rawi, but the best teacher is really someone knowledgable who can answer your questions firsthand! |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/28/02 at 04:59:03 |
| Salaam 1) You acquire your actions when you make a choice 2) You are judged on your choice AND the action that Allah (swt) has allowed you to acquire. If choice is evil then you made the first choice and Allah (swt) let you acquire it. If it's an evil choice and Allah (swt) did not let you carry out the action eg you were caught along the way and stopped then you are not judged on the basis of that action. Whereas if you intend good and Allah (swt) does not let you carry it out you are still rewarded and this is whats called the blessing of Allah (swt) as that old pakistani song says..# allah hi allah kiya karo..kisee ko dukh na diya karo.. |
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| Faiz |
| 05/16/02 at 15:12:22 |
| [slm] Looks like everyone has reached some kinda consensus. But i am still very, very troubled...so plz help me out. OK this is what i have gathered: Lets say there is a Person A and a Person B. Allah SWT created both of them. they go thru life making choices. Allah SWT knows what choices these folks are gonna make, but that does not change the fact that these guys *do* have these choices (and what appears like free-will). Lets say A chooses to do good and B chooses to do evil. cut to the Day of the Judgement. A and B would be judged based on the choices they made in life. now agreed that B should go to Hell coz he made evil choices...BUT WASN'T HE DESTINED TO MAKE THEM? coz Allah SWT had created him to do that? do you understand my confusion?[i]at this point it seems to me that Allah SWT has created some people to be bad and some to be good. And that He is gonna punish the people who were bad for being bad!! [/i] and this some how conflicts with Allah SWT's charactersitic of being the most fair judge. if i am sounding irreverent, plz understand that that is not the intent. i am just scared and confused... |
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| jannah |
| 05/17/02 at 02:56:43 |
| [quote]A and B would be judged based on the choices they made in life. now agreed that B should go to Hell coz he made evil choices...BUT WASN'T HE DESTINED TO MAKE THEM? coz Allah SubHana Wa Ta`ala had created him to do that? [/quote] just because someone is "destined" to do something doesn't mean they never had a choice in the matter. Allah doesn't "control" your choices, you have that free choice. He may have created you and you may be destined to do something, but that doesn't mean God created you so you *would* do that. why bother with judgement if everything was controlled, if people had no choices.. why weigh peoples good deeds and bad deeds if they had no choice in them? why send guidance and "mercy to all the worlds" in the form of the Holy books and the messengers. in Islam we don't have this concept of a "chosen people" or a "saved people". EVERYONE could believe and do good if they chose to, or NO-ONE could believe and do good if they chose to. a brother recently did a nice demonstration at an inter-faith we went to... he asked one of the students for their folder and said... "see this... this is time, now God... God is outside of time. He created it. so He knows everything that is going to happen." IT'S ALREADY HAPPENNED because God is outside of time. (insert matrix theme here ;)) so now while we are in this "folder/time" we live out our life and make all these choices and do all this stuff... BUT WE'RE STILL IN the folder see and we don't realize that everything in it is destined to happen and is known to the ONE outside of time. |
| 05/17/02 at 03:00:06 |
| jannah |
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| Faiz |
| 05/17/02 at 13:26:15 |
| I guess what you're saying is that one should *only* look at it from an human being's perspective. i *know* i have choices. so i try and make good choices and insha'Allah hope for paradise. Allahu Alam... Jazak Allahu Khairan... |
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| jannah |
| 05/18/02 at 01:38:08 |
| [slm] it's kind of weird thinking about it sometimes... like since we are created beings, we can think all we like, try to understand, hypothesize, theorize, experiment but it's still within this realm. we will never be able to reach that complete understanding because we are still within the limits of our minds which are still created by a Creator. |
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| Faiz |
| 05/20/02 at 20:39:16 |
| i know what you mean:) and when i get really confused, i take solace from the Ayat-ul-Kursi: "...He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth..." |
| Re: Questions on Destiny and Predestination? |
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| UmmWafi |
| 05/20/02 at 22:53:54 |
| [slm] Masya'Allah, I have been gone for quite sometime and look at all the interesting discussions I have missed. I can't stay for a long visit cos I am frazzled with term papers (which is going kinda s-l-o-o-o-w right now) but just wanna mention some things. The issue of free will and predestination has loonnggg been debated. Earliest I know was before the time of the 6th Imam (the Shi'ite Imamates I mean). During that time, the debate was very fierce between the qadarites who believed that everything and anything is predetermined and the free willers who believed that we have absolute free will. Ja'far As-Sadiq took the middle path. He gave a treatise on how predestination and freewill co-existed. His notion of Allah granting us the power to do good or evil is interesting. I am sorry for being a teaser and not elaborating but I am now taking a rest from my term paper and 4 big uns ain't an easy task :D My du'a for everyone's health and happiness. Wassalam |
| Re: Questions on Destiny and Predestination? |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/21/02 at 08:05:28 |
| [slm] For Ahl sunnah wal jamaa the question has been answered by Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) in Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar |
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