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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Why do some Americans support Israeli Massacres? |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/19/02 at 15:46:50 |
| [slm] i've been reading all kinds of articles by the American papers, and i am shocked to find that they are mostly supporting israeli's massacres against the palestinian people!! And whats even more saddening is that many americans are actually agreeing with the media view and think Sharon is doing the right thing!! And you know what? It makes me think one thing, the Americans are brainwashed. If anyone says anything against the Israeli's, they are labelled Anti-Semetic. Those people who can see whats really going on in Palestine are intimidated into remaining silent, therough the fear of the anti-semite comments which would be aimed at them. The American public have not only been brainwashed, but they have had thier courage to speak out, drained away from! This may offend, but in my opinion the Americans are now nothing more than brainwashed people who say "yes sir" "no sir" to whatever Bush says. And how sad a state is that. It infuriates americans when they are labelled brainwahsd, but why? Can't you see how you are being led around by your CNN and FOX news, and other such propoganda tools of the US government? |
| 04/23/02 at 15:15:17 |
| jannah |
| Re |
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| BroHanif |
| 04/19/02 at 15:57:22 |
| [slm], [quote]the Americans are now nothing more than brainwashed people who say "yes sir" "no sir" to whatever Bush says. And how sad a state is that[/quote] well thats a surprise, since when did Britain become the 53rd state ...?? If its anyone whos doing the yes sir I'll jump, how high sir it s good old Tony, yep Tony B liar. Salaams Hanif |
| 04/23/02 at 15:16:50 |
| jannah |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/19/02 at 16:01:01 |
| [slm] I couldn't agree more BroHaniff! But all blair is doing is doing what the other Americans are doing!! You know, bush gave the whole world an Ultimatum, "your either with us, or with the terrorists". He didnt give anyone the option of opting out, or the choice not to take either side, its eithers us or them! And the American's all fell for it. If any americans speak out, they are shouted down as being terrorist sympathisers, or terrorist suporters. For the Americans its now a case of Obey or Else. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| Caraj |
| 04/19/02 at 18:36:55 |
| Not all of us are brain washed. But I fear my countrymen at times get to caught up in making a living and their own personal comfort that they do not take time to find out what is really going on around them. Not all of us agree. I DO NOT agree with the suiside bombers, nor paying a family whose relative did such a thing. If one is poor and deperate enough one may do it just so ones family gets money to help them. This to me is disgusting to offer money to the families of so called maryters. I ALSO DO NOT agree with the way Isreali is handling things and I am at a poitn where I am disgusted how Isreali stubs their nose at the US after we have supplied them with so much and supportsed them. I ALSO do not agree with my country wanting to be the worlds policeman. I personally do not wish to have that kind of responsability. Mujy have you not read my post in the Bebzi Stand titled Canada? My husband and I are seriously and I do mean SERIOUSLY considering moving to Canada after he retires for political reasons as well as others. More later Bro, I need to go. [] a round for the house ;D PS: I do Love my country Dearly, but you can Love someone or something and not agree with them. Not all Americans are brain washed or acting like sheep to slaughter. Obey or else. Some are just caught up in themselves and their lives personally, unfortunatly. |
| 04/19/02 at 18:41:29 |
| Caraj |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/19/02 at 18:37:58 |
| from a brainwashed american, i really do not think i am brainwashed. but i also do not have an emotional stake in that situation as most of the people on here (except for the pain and suffering by alll people). I do not agree with what the israelis are doing, but much of what i read on here makes it difficult for me to support the muslim position either. For and example in a recent post from Shaikh Safar Al-hawali ( i can barely quote but quoting from another post would be way too impossible for my small brain) but it determines palestine as an Islamic waqf, and non muslims cannot own any land except for the contract of dhimmah. not that i understand what dimmah or waqf is, but from what i can gather, a non muslim can only own land if they are under islamic rule, probably with paying the (jizyah) tax? Well , if i am not muslim, i may not want to live under those conditions. What if i felt that the land of palsetine is holy to christians? that might create a problem by itself wouldnt it? also it talks about not rescuing the situation by halting the intafada, because this is forcing the hand of the Israelis to do what they are doing. So if i am reading this correctly, (and i do not know who this person is, or if it is a prevelant opinion in Islam), he is saying that the jews have no right to be there, and the goal is to get rid of anyone who live in the palestine area that is not muslim, unless they live under muslim law. would this not make israel have no choice but to fight for its very existence? doesnt that create a conflict if people have another line of thinking? I see wrongs on both sides. I hope for the very best for the palestinians, but i see nothing but suffering for both sides for a very long time. I do not know why you are saying we are brainwahsed, every day i see and hear of the horrors in the various refugee camps. that have been invaded and i think that most Americans are heartsick of what is happening over there. It is the solutions that are hard to come by. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/19/02 at 20:09:07 |
| Caraj, canada? geez except for hockey they dont have alot going for them. All my relatives come to the USA to get any real medical care they need. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| BrKhalid |
| 04/20/02 at 00:00:40 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]This may offend, but in my opinion the Americans are now nothing more than brainwashed people who say "yes sir" "no sir" to whatever Bush says. And how sad a state is that. It infuriates americans when they are labelled brainwahsd, but why? [/quote] Br Mujaahid, you can raise a topic without the need for being offensive. If you're trying to give people dawah then think about this ayah: Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance (Quran 16:125) That being said its an interesting topic and I'd like to ask Mike and Cara if they consider themselves to be exceptions from the rule. More plainly do do you see other Americans as concerned with the Palestine situation as you guys are or is there more of a sense of apathy with the majority of the American public. If so, why is that? It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/20/02 at 02:29:00 |
| i would be willing to bet that caraj and i are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum (judging by her comments about wanting to move to canada) i tend to be mostly libertarian with some conservative leanings. But it is like any place else. Some people dont care others do. and there is a huge variety of thought (i think an example would be the comments of Jerry falwell and pat robertson vs. our church and we are a conservative church, we invited muslims in and made dialogue with them, while i am sure you heard their comments) . But in the mix is sept 11. I think many americans are angry by what happened, and it has an affect on how we look at the world now and sad to say muslims as a whole. I know it has affected me. I did not know a lot about how muslims thought until after that event. That is why i came to this web site, to find out more. I think (i do not know if i am right or wrong) if israel did this before 911 there would be a much bigger outcry. Every people group feel slighted in America, Conservatives think they get the shaft when it comes to network news, liberals when they here talk radio, jews when they read the LA times. I could probably list another 500 subgroups also. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| BrKhalid |
| 04/22/02 at 11:10:06 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Mike thanks for the response. [quote]I know it has affected me. I did not know a lot about how muslims thought until after that event. That is why i came to this web site, to find out more. [/quote] Mind if I ask what your observations have been? |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/22/02 at 11:39:05 |
| [slm] One of the things about the Americans is ignorance of what thier leaders are doing abroad, and the lack of effort in wanting to find out, and simply believeing the media rhetoric. Cara is a perfect example of this. Cara i remeber you recently saying that the US placing sanctions on Iraq was the choice of the US government, that the US have a right to decide who they can and cannot trade with. Yes, fair point. But thats not the whole story of the sanctions. What your media dont tell you is this: The US has sanctions on Iraq, meaning no US company can trade with Iraq (unless the US says so, which is rare, if it ever happens). But did you also know, that if any non-US company trades with Iraq, say an EU company, than the US government bans ALL US companies from trading with that foreign company, or places heavy restrictions on them, menaing they will probably go bust! So not only are US companies banned from trading with Iraq, but so are all the other countries!! Because if they dont do as Uncle Sam says, then Uncle sam will stop his freinds and babies buying your products!! |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/22/02 at 12:25:03 |
Mind if I ask what your observations have been? i will brkhalid. Will be busy for the next couple of days, a couple of big deadlines at work. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/22/02 at 13:17:08 |
| regarding iraq, sanctions only work if they are effective. if they have alternative sources then what is the point? Not arguing if it right or wrong. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| mujaahid |
| 04/22/02 at 15:39:23 |
| [slm] Mike, in your heart you know sanctions are wrong. |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| Caraj |
| 04/22/02 at 18:20:59 |
| Mujaahid you and I need to have a little talk..... Lil' Bro Sometimes you can be so kind and thoughtful and at other times I wonder if you think before you speak. First of all I find the title of this thread quite offensive as you titled my name in the same sentenced as brain-washed. If I was so brain-washed would I even be in a Muslim chat board??? Would I accept you even though we don't agree??? I don't think so. Second to say...... "Cara is a perfect example of this" HOW DO YOU KNOW >:( what a perfect example of Cara is???? Well let me show you... Cara... perfect example of motherly scolding :( You are the same age as my youngest son and I am going to pull rank on you here lil bro. Please show me the same respect you would show your mother or an older sister, older female. After all I have sons your age and older and I treat you with respect. I have been very friendly, respectful and sisterly of you both in there posts and in private messages showing you respect and sisterly concern. We don't have to see eye to eye but please show me some respect.. Thank you. Mods no need to lock or change this thread. I spoke my mind and heart and am not a type to hold grudges. As far as I am concerned it is now history. Mujy I am going to ask you to also READ carefully my posts as you seem to pick out 50 % of what I say. To answer BrKhalid's question. I don't know half the time what my fellow countrymen think. ??? The idea of moving to another country is a very serious thought and we are taking the next 2 yrs to carefully consider and reasearch this before doing it. But it is very politically motivated but NOT totally. I think the folks in the US are so materialistic that they have to both mother and father in a family have to work, that they are so caught up in making ends meet they don't take the time to really consider things, only what they hear in 30 mins of news. I personally don't believe all that comes out of any newspaper or news as they say what "keeps" people reading and listening ... in my opinion. As for the the Isreali / Palisinian thing, the whole thing disgusts me. I am sadden and sickened by it. I don't agree with suicide bombers and I think it is criminal and horrible to offer money to suicide bombers families. Especially seeing the poverty of some of these people. How many, may take this as an oppertunity to feed and cloth their family and are not really politically motived? Not saying all are but some many very well be. HOWEVER...... I am equally sadden and sicken by Isreali at this point as they wanted so bad to be recognised as a nation (state) yet they deny it to others. Their neighbors. For whatever excuse they can come up with. And I don't think my country needs to be the worlds police officer either. As I said before I don't personally want that kind of responsability. And as to Itcorpest2, he is right we are a little on the diff end of the scales side. I would consider myself a bit on the conservative side. Not liberal in most ways. I would say as to my ways of thinking I am 70% conservative, 25% liberal and 5% who knows :-[ Itcorpest2 can you please define.......libertarian for me please? I just want to understand properly. Tell you all what, the motherly part of me wants nothing more than to take some of these world leaders, terriorist and a few others and give them a swift kick in the seat of their pants and then send them to bed without dinner. People (nations) need to stop acting like fighting silly and hateful children and love and respect their neighbors for Allah's / God's sake. He shows up Love and mercy, he created us and forgives us. How dare we do any different. shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Cara>>>>>> tired and needs a [] |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| Sparrow |
| 04/23/02 at 06:14:40 |
| Hi All Just wanted to put my two cents worth in: 1) Muj, you're right, the American media is clearly biased in general (so is every other media in the world but we'll stick to America here) and pro-Israel in specific, and any American with 1/2 brain knows that. We do not just read and accept what's in the papers. You are not here to hear the continuing debate about the sorry state of US news papers and programs. Americans are well aware of it and most of us take what we read with an enormous grain of salt. Perhaps some day we will meet and you will have the questionable pleasure of listening to my father go off for 45 minutes about the "liberal Jewish media." :) 2) In my opinion, it's not that Americans know and don't care, it's that they don't know. For years it was nearly impossible to find *any* Palestinian points of view anywhere. That is changing, thank God (although you may not see it, it is) and more and more there is coverage of the Palestinian plight. Most people around the world have neither the time nor the inclination to look up the facts that are not presented to them in the media. What I mean is, people may know that the media is pro-Israel, but between work, kids, and paying the bills, they are not thinking about running to the library and researching the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Or any other issue, for that matter. 3) I don't know what newspapers you are reading, but any of the big ones (New York Times, Boston Globe, LA Times, Washington Post) are famously anti-conservative, and so, anti-Bush, and reading them would not brainwash the American public into following Bush, it would turn people against him! I don't have any answers when it comes to what can be done. All I know is, when the debate begins, and I tell people what the Palestinians have suffered, they are shocked and surprised and say, 'I didn't know' so perhaps the answer is not to scold people and accuse them of being brainwashed fanatics, but by working to get the facts of the situtation known. Peace, Sparrow |
| Re: For Cara-brainwashed Americans |
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| eleanor |
| 04/23/02 at 06:35:18 |
| [slm] In case none of you are aware of it, the situation on mainland Europe is a little different than in Britain or USA. Maybe Dawn can contribute here? Or some of our other European residents? The Europeans (on the whole) are shocked and dismayed by the actions taken by Israel in Palestine last week. They highly suspect genocide on the part of Israel and want definite investigations. They have also refused to sell further arms to Israel if they do not promise not to use them on Palestinian citizens. (Israel very angry about this..) They are also pressing charges on Israel, because Israel have destroyed, since Sharon is in power, European funded programs (refugee camps, medical clinics etc). Just yesterday I saw a cartoon in the paper. Three mothers were sitting watching the small son of one of them playing with a toy tank on the floor. The mother of the boy says "We never let Timmy play with war toys... only crisis-intervention toys..." Good, eh? So Tony B.Liar is walking a very thin tightrope at the moment. Sharon is quoted as saying that the anti-Samitism has never died in Europe, so it's no big surprise that we are all so anti-Jew. Why can't he wake up? We are anti-atrocity... It takes a big atrocity to get the Germans on the side of Muslims I'll tell you that much.... wasalaam eleanor :-* |
| what are you trying to prove? |
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| M.F. |
| 04/23/02 at 10:35:07 |
| Mujaahid, I think your posts are extremely disrespectful of Cara and of other Americans who, though you may be surprised, aren't brainwashed. What are you trying to do by targetting Cara in particular and telling her she's a perfect example of American ignorance? Is this your way of doing da'wa? Is this your way of "educating" the so called ignorant americans? What is your goal in this? I think you should be grateful Cara still comes to this board after what you wrote and that she's open minded enough to take it the way she did and just give you a motherly scolding. If I were here to learn about Islam and someone said that to me (especially starting this whole thread with her name and saying brainwashed americans) I would have been extremely offended and might have said to heck with these Muslims if that's how they think. |
| Re: So Free and clever Americans (yeah right)!! |
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| Kashif |
| 04/23/02 at 14:48:51 |
| [color=red] assalaamu alaikum mujaahid, this is your second warning. The Madina constitution states: [5] Anything insulting any other person(s), groups, organizations, fellow posters or moderators will be removed. This thread is now closed. [/color] |
| NS |
| 04/23/02 at 14:57:43 |
| Kashif |
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