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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Shahida |
| 05/02/02 at 08:00:11 |
| [slm] A classmate of mine is generally interested in religions, and this is his month to explore Islam...or so he tells me. The question he posed this morning kinda had me phased, and I need some help in answering him. He wanted to know why no non-Muslims are allowed in Makka and Madina. I need an aswer that will satisfy a very inquiring mind, and will be as unoffensive to a non-Muslim as possible. JazakumAllahu khairun, thanks in advance Salam Shahida |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| eleanor |
| 05/02/02 at 08:48:18 |
| [slm] Well I suppose it's to protect the holy Kaaba from potential attacks and/or vandalism. If just anyone was allowed in, then you could get some extremist non-Muslim walking in and blowing up the place. (Allah forbid). I'm sure someone will be able to back this up with more evidence. wasalaam eleanor :-* |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Hijabi4eva |
| 05/02/02 at 08:54:41 |
| salam, back in the past, muslims allowed non-muslims to stay in a muslim state, but they had to pay a kinda tax thing for there protection! but now, sum rules hav bn twisted, and alot of muslims thik themselves completely right, so they dont allow non-muslims! i think its due to the kings rules, n they way he puts it! i dont think theres a religious reason for non-muslims in makkah! but ya, it cud be coz they might attac the kaba! i'm not sure, but wen this question cums to me, i think in all directions! |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 05/02/02 at 12:41:29 |
| [slm] I guess the most straightforward answer to this question would be because Islam considers the mushrikeen [polytheists] to be najs [impure]. This is because they do not believe in Allah (swt) and the Last Day, because they ascribe partners to Allah (swt), because they eat, drink, and engage in things that are considered najs [impure] and haraam [forbidden] in Islam, they do not properly clean themselves after relieving themselves in the bathroom or after intercourse as is prescribed by Rabbul Aalameen [Lord of the Worlds], etc. All of these things, and others, make the person najs [impure] in Islam. And since these places are Sacred and demand respect and sanctity, no najs [impurity] of such kinds are allowed to enter them. And Allah (swt) knows best. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Kashif |
| 05/02/02 at 12:49:47 |
| assalaamu alaikum I think an even simpler answer is that they're not allowed to enter Makkah or Madina because its the Prophet sallallahu alahih wa sallam's command not to allow them: "No two religions may co-exist" there. In fact, this prohibition extends to all non-Muslims from setting foot on the Arabian Peninsula. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| The_Naeem |
| 05/02/02 at 13:13:37 |
| Abu Hamza, That's what we were always taught, you had to be in a purified state to come there, mean your Iman , the shahadah. Someone speculated that's where the name the Ha'raam, comes from for the masjid where the khabbah is. Ha'raam for kufar to be there. But on the real somethings are as they are. Everything in the deen isn't "PC" or there isn't a pretty way to put it. Some people will be enlightened, some people turned off. You can't please all the people all the time. But inshallah, the Nurullah will fill your friends heart and this won't be a major set back. |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| jannah |
| 05/02/02 at 13:25:38 |
| [quote] i dont think theres a religious reason for non-muslims in makkah! [/quote] there is, i think the brothers brought up the opinions.. there is even scholarly opinion that no non-muslims should be allowed in the hijaz!, but honestly can you imagine if makkah and madina allowed non-muslims.. it would not become a holy place anymore. i think it's the governments right to limit who can enter a place or not. we can't get into fort knox right... (what would civilians be doing there) or the white house... believe me i once stood up on the fence when i was 11 to take a picture and 6 guards came out in 6 seconds saying 'ma'am get off the fence' in the same way what would non-muslims be doing in makkah?? why would they want to go there except to watch everything and be a tourist, and that's not the place for that. everything revolves (literally ;)) around the kabah. are noncatholics allowed in the inner sanctums of the vatican ? i doubt it! |
| 05/02/02 at 13:25:59 |
| jannah |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| nabeela |
| 05/02/02 at 15:12:20 |
| asalaamu alaikum, just imagine if non-muslims were allowed to go as tourists, first of all it gets soo crowded during hajj and ramadan time that it would be over crowded and muslims would not get a chance to worship allah properly there. and then if a non-muslim was to break some law there and gets punished, then whatever country they are from gets involved and a whole big mess is made. it just does not seem like it would work. besides non-muslims (christians and jews) do not have any ties to makkah and madina, therefore they do not have the right to be there. if they were allowed it would be a privlege, but i think if you've been there you can see the wisdom of only allowing muslims to be there. forgive me if i said anything wrong. wsalaam |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| humble_muslim |
| 05/03/02 at 06:02:51 |
| [slm] Don't forget, they allowed non muslims in Makkah to make the Malcolm X movie. |
| NS |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Shahida |
| 05/03/02 at 06:59:57 |
| [slm] jazakumAllahu khairun everyone. Thanks, that helped. He kinda understood where i was going with the whole "imoure" thing, and accepted that he would only be able to travel there if he becomes Muslim...inshaAllah. I donno anything about the Malcolm X movie, but it seems pretty strange to me!! ??? I mean, even for the CNN coverage they only allowed Muslim journalists etc to travel there, like Riz Khan and Rula Amin. I recall hearing a story about a Chinese man, who was only able to take an aireal (ariel/airial???spelling anyone...i mean a photo taken from a plane) AFTER he became Muslim. Or something like that...Allahu a3lam. Wasalam Shahida :-) |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| inti |
| 05/04/02 at 07:06:11 |
| [slm] [The following is my understanding... please feel free to comment and correct me where I am wrong.] Allah has given us guidance in the Qur'an and sent Muhammed [saw] as a guide and Messenger. Indeed God sent prophets in all ages and to all nations to guide the people and to make truth plain and clear. And, there is no more messenger or prophet to come after Muhammed [saw]. And God has set certain limits and prescribed certain rules so that we do not get lost as those before us. We would too if we do not adhere to the commands of God. The exclusion of non-Muslims from Makka is a command of prophet Muhammed [saw]. This is so that when we go there for pilgrimage it be just for the sake of Allah. Not for engaging in worldly affairs more than what is necessary. The focus must be God. The day we leave for pilgrimage till the day we are done with it, we are in a state of [i]ibadah[/i] (prayer). And the whole city is like a prayer house sacred to us. Now dont we hold open house in Mosques now and then and call upon Non-Muslims to have a peek at what Islam teaches and what we strive for or just what the inside of a masjid looks like. Reading some of the observations made (esp the impurity thing) this should seem to contradict. Sure, a mosque is a house of Allah where His name is taken and He is glorified. When we invite non-Muslims to a mosque we follow the practice of prophet Muhammed [saw] when he invited learned Christians to his mosque in Madina to teach them Islam. To sum up, the city of Makka is like a mosque, a sacred place. And we go there for pilgrimage as God has commanded us. And there is no role for non-Muslims because the only role would have been as guests willing to learn more of Islam which they can do by attending many of the mosques which hold such events. Or reading more about Kaba or Makka on the internet :) . In Makka, the devouts are circumambulating the Ka'ba following the sunnah of prophet Abraham and prophet Muhammed [peace and blessing of God be upon them]. May we get that blessing too, inshaAllah [Ameen] [wlm] inti ;-) |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| AbdulBasir |
| 05/05/02 at 07:06:16 |
| [slm] Just to add a few thoughts... To supplement what was already stated in the earlier posts, the basis for the prohibition of non-Muslims in the Haram is in the Qur'an, which Abu Hamza was alluding to, so for the sake of reference, let us quote it: [i]O you who believe! Verily the Mushrikeen are impure. So let them not come near Masjid-al-Haram after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He wills, out of His bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-wise." (at-Tawbah, 9:28 ) [/i] This ayah, in addition to the practice and statements of Rasulallah[saw] and his Companions, is the basis for the evidence for the prohibition. This has been explicitly understood in regards to Makkah and followed since the revelation of this ayah. As Madinah has also been regarded by the 'ulama as a Haram (though strictly speaking it not reffered to in this ayah) non-Muslims have similarly been prohibited from it. Indeed, the analogy was made from this verse by a portion of the 'ulama that all masaajid were off limits to non-Muslims (there is of course an equally sound and widely held opinion that did not extend this to all masajid). But given the importance and sanctity to Madinah, it has come to be also called the Haram and has therefore been forbidden to non-Muslims, but not with the same scope as Makkah (for example non-Muslims have been allowed in the outskirts in Madinah at times). And then of course if one takes the opinion by some scholars cited by Kashif and jannah regarding non-Muslims in the Hijaz, then this serves as even further evidence to support the prohibition of non-Muslims from Madinah. It is interesting to note that in Jerusalem while Bayt al Maqdis, or Masjid al-Aqsa has been come to be known also as al Haram Sharif, it has not over the years been deemed forbidden to non-Muslims, as it is outside the scope of the evidence used to make Makkah, and then Madinah, off limits. So one has to be careful not to be confused by the language we are using at present because all the three great masaajid are being called Haram these days. Earlier posts have already reflected on some of the wisdom behind the prohibition of non-Muslims in Masjid al-Haram. And definitely, protection of the sanctity of the place is among the top reasons (Allahu 'Alam). It's enough of a job for the ummah as a whole to protect the sanctity of Haram with just the Muslims being allowed there! And for all intensive purposes as others have mentioned, there is no need for non-Muslims to be there anyways. Part of the difficutly, perhaps, for some people to understand the prohibition is that they have this perception that foreign outsiders are not allowed in the Haram, and this perception is derived from an ignorance of Islam which still has an idea that Muslims are soley Arab. There is a good quote from Br. Michael Wolfe in regards to this: [i]Some Westerners think of Makkah as forbidden to foreigners. In fact, it exists to receive them and is largely composed of them. Most of the populace descends through thirteen centuries of migrant pilgrims who settled here after their hajj and did not go home. The result is a cosmopolitan city, where every nation and race has taken root. Naturally it is completely Muslim. Only a Muslim has any business being here.[/i] In regards to the prohibition protecting it from attacks and the sort, this of course something which makes sense as well. But unfortunately, let us remind ourselves that the Kabah has been attacked, destroyed and burnt a few times during Muslim history by some Muslims. Indeed, Hajar al-Aswad (the Black Stone) was even stolen during one attack and taken from Makkah (to Bahrain or Iraq, not sure which) not returned back the Kaaba for about twenty years! A reminder to us that it is Allah who has sanctified this place in space and though we are to protect it to the best of our ability, He allows physical derangements to the structures therein as He wills. Yet no matter what happens physically, that place in space remains the most sanctified place in the universe. Now, there have been non-Muslims in Makkah who have secretly and illegally come in over the years, and some have even written accounts of their visit (see for example Michael Wolfe's book "A Thousand Roads to Mecca"), but the authorities have never allowed non-Muslims in. And since it was mentioned, for the filming of the biopic on Malcolm X, with Saudi permission, Spike Lee sent a film crew composed of only Muslims to go in and shoot footage of the Haram that they needed for the film. [slm] :) |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| explorer |
| 05/05/02 at 09:37:41 |
| [slm] Interesting. So does masjid al-haram mean 'the forbidden masjid', in the context forbidden to non-muslims? :-[ Does anyone have the hadith saying that 2 religions cannot co-exist in arabia and (if any) saying non muslims are to be expelled from the hijaz? Sorry to skew slightly off topic but I read a while ago that when stolen(by an iraqi sect called Qaramitans), the Black Stone was shattered into many fragments and today is made up of 3 large parts with smaller fragments held together by metallic wire. Any more details on that? [wlm] |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 05/05/02 at 14:28:27 |
| [slm] [quote]So does masjid al-haram mean 'the forbidden masjid', in the context forbidden to non-muslims? [/quote] No. The word "haraam" in this context does not mean "forbidden." It means "sacred." So the meaning of the word "Masjid al-Haraam" is "The Sacred Mosque." Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/08/02 at 12:24:59 |
| [slm] Hadrat Umar (ra) gave a fatwa that no non-muslim would be allowed in the peninsula and if anybody wants to step forward and argue against this fatwa let him present his evidence |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| sabirah |
| 06/18/02 at 21:41:52 |
| [slm] everyone gave great evidence. I was thinking, it is every Muslims dream and fulfillment of their faith to go to makkah. It is a sacred rite of passage, a priveledge of being Muslim. makkah isn't a tourist attraction. Its a holy site. and yeah, there's not enough room for nonmuslims! the kaaba was built as a House of Worship. and Muhammad [saw] put much time and effort into securing it, protecting it, defending it and establshing the community of Islam there. Letting nonmuslims go there just to satisfy their curiousity is like making light of its history and purpose. :o Also, nonhindus are not allowed at hindu holy places, and the same is true with one other christian sect~which escapes my mind at the moment. ??? anyone? |
| Re: No Muslims in Makka...why? |
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| Dawn |
| 06/19/02 at 01:30:52 |
| [quote author=sabirah link=board=madrasa;num=1020340811;start=15#15 date=06/18/02 at 21:41:52] Also, nonhindus are not allowed at hindu holy places, and the same is true with one other christian sect~which escapes my mind at the moment. ??? anyone? [/quote] Might you have in mind the Mormons? Once one of their temples is dedicated, only Mormons (and only ones approved by their bishop, at that) are allowed into most of the rooms at the temple. I believe that the entryway or foyer, etc., is open to everyone, as it often has some sort of information table or literature stand, etc., available for the general public. But everything else is considered sacred ground, and hence off limits to all but those who are approved. |
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