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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| The New Deemed Threat to the World |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/04/02 at 14:23:35 |
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/from_our_own_correspondent/newsid_1966000/1966979.stm It was an imposing house on an elegant garden square in Rotterdam. The butler opened the door - stained glass with the owner's name Pim Fortuyn emblazoned over a windmill. "The master is running a little late," he explained. "I can bring you tea in the garden while you wait." I followed him down a long yellow corridor taking mental notes about the decor; marble floors, modern art, large black and white photos of my host, framed magazine covers of him and naked men - lots of them. I sipped my tea - Earl Grey - out of a Wedgwood cup edged with gold leaf and counted how many naked men there were in the garden - only two - of the Greek god variety, one posed fetchingly near the small Zen-like pond. It wasn't long before the man who has taken Dutch politics by storm bounded through the French windows to greet me. Very shiny bald head, tall and slim wearing a well-cut pin striped suit, pale pink shirt and matching tie. Under one arm he is cradling a King Charles spaniel, which is licking his face vigorously. "Professor Pim" as the Dutch refer to him, is in a bad mood. Journalists keep on ringing him and comparing him to France's Jean-Marie Le Pen. "We have nothing in common," he says banging the table. The Wedgewood cups shake, and the small dog quivers. "What about your opposition to immigration?" I reply. "Surely you share those ideas?" "No, no, no," shouts Mr Fortuyn. "All those who are here can stay. I don't say send them home like he does - I just say the Netherlands is a small country. "We are already overcrowded, there's no more room and we must shut the borders." There is another crucial difference between the blustering former French paratrooper and the leader of the Dutch new right. Pim Fortuyn is gay, openly so and proud of it and this is crucial to understanding his politics. He fears that the influx of Muslim immigration into the Netherlands is undermining the ultra-liberal, permissive values which made his the first country in the world to fully legalise same-sex marriages. Every time I try to speak, he cuts me off and rants "Muslims have a very bad attitude to homosexuality, they're very intolerant," he says. Jabbing his finger aggressively towards me, he goes on: "And women. For them women are second class citizens". I try to open my mouth with a response but am cut off. "What we are witnessing now is a clash of civilisations, not just between states but within them," and he thunders on. Indeed that sort of characterises our entire conversation - every time I try to speak, he cuts me off and rants. Similar tastes The finger jabbing and shouting reminded me of the time I had taken tea with Jean-Marie Le Pen ... that and the dogs. Pim Fortuyn has two little well coiffed King Charles spaniels called Kenneth and Carla. Monsieur Le Pen has two sleek black Dobermans - called Gauloise and Gitane. Professor Pim has a lot of books in his house whereas I didn't get the impression Mr Le Pen was a big reader The Dutchman even has a rather garish family portrait of himself and his dogs hanging in his study. Both men are wealthy with large beautiful houses and butlers. They also share a taste for statues. Mr Le Pen has a tall black statue of man holding a bowl of fruit in his hall - the only difference is that he's wearing a loin cloth whereas Mr Fortuyn's statues do not. Mr Le Pen has a Vietnamese manservant who I tried to corner in the pantry and asked whether the leader of the National Front was a good boss. He politely ignored me asking instead whether I took my tea with lemon or milk. My attempt to extract information from Herman the Dutch butler was met with equal discretion. Professor Pim has a lot of books in his house whereas I didn't get the impression Mr Le Pen was a big reader: In fact he positively detests intellectuals who he blames for much of France's ills. The only reading material I spotted chez Le Pen was a tabloid newspaper. Intellectual reputation The Dutchman on the other hand revels in his reputation as a thinking man. He's an ex-sociology professor, a former Marxist who then became an opinionated right-wing columnist and a political consultant to Dutch Christian Democrats before setting up his own political party less than three months ago. Pim Fortuyn and Jean Marie Le Pen may be very different men, but the reasons people vote for them are the same: fear and alienation. Fear of outsiders, fear of crime, fear of change and alienation from the old political elites. When you ask people on the streets of Lille or Rotterdam why they vote for them, the answers are the same. "He says what other politicians won't," "I trust him," "he understands the concerns of ordinary people." Very few explicitly mention immigration - everything is couched in terms of crime or "insecurity" as the French call it. "You may not be a racist but the people who vote for you are," I said to Mr Fortuyn. "So what?"came the reply."Why they vote for me is irrelevant, but if they do they're in safe hands." And with that he smiled a big, slow self-satisfied smile. |
| 05/04/02 at 15:20:14 |
| BroHanif |
| Re: The New Deemed Threat to the World |
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| Saffiyah |
| 05/04/02 at 18:49:19 |
| [slm] I watched a part of this on 'Reporters' which comes on BBC News 24, i think ???..well it was something by the BBC, so it may repeated again..so look out for it. Yep I'm sure it was BBC News 24 :-[ |
| Re: The New Deemed Threat to the World |
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| Kashif |
| 05/04/02 at 19:38:01 |
| assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah The seeming surge in support for the right-wing across Europe is a cause for concern. I really would encourage brothers to undertake some kind of training such that if they are threatened, or see another innocent being threatened they are able to deal with the situation. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: The New Deemed Threat to the World |
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| Saffiyah |
| 05/04/02 at 20:15:02 |
| [slm] This would be the part where brother Mujahid would advise 'TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN' ::) (I mean training for self defense not the choo choo type ;)) I think this has been a problem for a while, but has only been highlighted because of Le Pens victory in the first round. Events like that bring it to the attention of the world but it has been something that many ppl have had to live with for a while. Much of the far right has had a lot of exposure and has caused a lot of interest for parties like the BNP...now ppl blame all their crime and unemployment problems on the Muslim immigrants. I am sure that even if the muslims were not there, they would still have the same problems. I would suggest to the leader of the BNP who said something like 'we will pay all the asians to leave' tk spend that money on getting themselves jobs. They (BNP) say more money is given to the asians than the whites..if they have money to get all asians to leave then why don't they give it to the 'whites' who say they don't have any money. The BNP are just picking up the tensions caused cos of crime, unemployment, drugs etc and blaming it on Muslims >:( Anyway i'll stop ranting and pick up on what brother Kashif was saying about training...these dayz sisters need to be prepared as well since many of them are visible targets with hijabs/niqaabs/jilbaabs. So sisters START TRAINING...since many of us complain about lack of exercise...this is a good way to combine the problems :-[ Take care |
| Re: The New Deemed Threat to the World |
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| Dawn |
| 05/05/02 at 04:51:33 |
| I don't know if it is the same elsewhere, i.e., in other European countries, but in Switzerland, there are a lot of assylum seekers and immigrants who are not Muslim, and they get the same bad treatment from the public, along with all the Muslim immigrants. Here, at least, the attention does not seem to be on religion, but on accent or last name. (And, yes, non-Muslim English speaker though I am, I get the occasional hard look when they hear my German.) That does not in any way, shape, or form make the discrimination right, however. I'm up with Kashif on this one. [quote]I really would encourage brothers to undertake some kind of training such that if they are threatened, or see another innocent being threatened they are able to deal with the situation.[/quote] And, at least in Zurich, those other "innocent beings" could easily be non-Muslim. Only I, like Saffiyah, would extend the encouragement to study a bit of self-defense to both genders. (Personally, I recommend Ju-Jitsu. ;)) |
| 05/07/02 at 07:27:00 |
| Dawn |
| Fortuyn shot dead |
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| Saffiyah |
| 05/06/02 at 19:29:55 |
| AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (CNN) -- Maverick Dutch right-wing politician Pim Fortuyn has been shot dead, nine days before a general election in which his party was expected to make big gains. Fortuyn, 54, was shot in the head and chest at least three times at close range at 6 p.m. on Monday as he was leaving a radio station in Hilversum, 20 km (12 miles) southeast of Amsterdam. The killing has cast doubt over whether elections on May 15 will go ahead. His death was officially announced later in the evening by Prime Minister Wim Kok. "After this assassination, Pim Fortuyn is gone," Kok said in The Hague after breaking off a campaign engagement. "This is a deep tragedy. I am shocked. This is a deep tragedy for those close to him, for his loved ones and for our country and our democracy." (More reaction) A man who was believed to have been carrying a gun is reported to have been arrested outside the Media Park in Hilversum. Journalist Sander Van Hoorn told CNN: "Fortuyn was shot in the head, just behind his left ear, and in his neck and chest. "Police have been searching for a single gunman, who was wearing a baseball cap. A police helicopter joined the search. "People witnessed the gunman open fire and four people are reported to have chased after him." Fortuyn's spokesman Mat Herben told Reuters the cigar-chomping politician had received regular death threats. Most Dutch political leaders travel without bodyguards, often using public transport. The only exceptions were Kok, as head of government. Fortuyn, however, had his own bodyguards and his party headquarters in Rotterdam were always guarded. He had been involved in minor scuffles with protesters in the past. (Profile) Opinion polls had shown that Fortuyn's newly formed Leefbaar Nederland (Livable Netherlands) party, running on an anti-immigration platform, was on course to win about 15 percent of the vote in the parliamentary elections. CNN European Political Editor Robin Oakley said Fortuyn might have been part of the coalition government. Fortuyn, a former TV analyst, was a plain-speaking politician who targeted fears over immigration. Saying that the Netherlands was "full up", he criticised Muslims for not embracing Dutch culture. He also said that being gay, he would be persecuted in a Muslim country. Fortuyn's rise mirrors a right-wing resurgence in several European countries, lately highlighted by Jean-Marie Le Pen's surprise showing in the first round of French presidential elections. Le Pen was soundly defeated in Sunday's run-off vote by incumbent Jacques Chirac. Leefbaar Nederland stunned the Netherlands in March when it won 35 percent of the vote for city council seats in Rotterdam, the second-largest city. British Prime Minister Tony Blair cancelled Tuesday's visit to the Netherlands saying: "Whatever feelings political figures arouse, the ballot box is the place to express them." |
| Re: The New Deemed Threat to the World |
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| mujaahid |
| 05/07/02 at 13:52:02 |
| [slm] Pim Fortuyn? Finished. Capeesh. Let this be a warning to anyone else who calls openly for discrmination and a cold war against Islaam. This guys assasination is a sigh of relief to immigrants and especially muslims in holland who were gona suffer because of this homo. Whoever killed him, well done. Now, as the Israeli's would say: We must defend our own people against terrorists. Fortyn got into the limelight with cheap anti-muslim rhetoric, and it got him killed. I wonder how many others now are gona have the bottle to openly take on islaam? And whats even crazeir is the assasin wasnt even a muslim!! |
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