A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Turkey allows menstrual women to pray |
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| Learner |
| 05/20/02 at 13:07:59 |
| ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's Muslim clergymen have agreed to let women attend funerals and prayers alongside men, as well attend mosque during their menstrual periods -- practices forbidden them until now, reports said Sunday. However, Turkey's top clergyman, Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, said the decisions, taken at a meeting on Saturday, were not binding on the public and that the believers were free to choose to follow them or not, daily Hurriyet reported. The declaration by the High Religious Affairs Board said there can be no discrimination between sexes and that women and men were "equal and complementary beings." The state-run board is Turkey's highest religious advisory body and oversees more than 70,000 mosques in Turkey. The decisions are expected to heat up a public debate over the place of women in religious services. Some women were recently scolded by imams, or Muslim clergymen, for attempting to attend funeral prayers while some other clergymen have allowed women to take part in the service. The rulings said women were free to enter mosques and read from the Koran, Islam's holy book, during their menstrual periods. Yasar Nuri Ozturk, one of Turkey's most popular theologians, said women until now were considered "unclean," during their menstrual period but the decision has ended that prejudice and discrimination. "This is a revolution," Ozturk told the Anatolia news agency. In September, the Board decided to take up more controversial questions such as whether Muslim women can marry non-Muslim men. Nearly all Turks are Muslims. Now, both Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslims, but radical Muslims have been seeking to ban Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men. Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. [url]cnn.com/world[/url] |
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| Maliha |
| 05/20/02 at 13:31:23 |
| [slm] Ya Allah what is this world coming to?!!!! It's so depressing to read the news and see how much further we can regress! Who are these Leaders?! Subhana Allah how much further can we decline.... A revolution indeed...May we keep turning until we face the right direction... (Amin) :( |
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| nouha |
| 05/20/02 at 17:04:19 |
| [slm] i know for a muslimah to pray while menstrating is haram, but i thought he can enter the mosque as long as she doesnt go to the prayer area? or if she does, she cant be there while they are praying? for the quran -- its better if she doesnt touch, but if she has too, i heard she can use gloves so her hands wont touch? marrying non muslim men -- whats next? muslim homosexual marriages >:( wasalam nouha:) |
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| hayal |
| 05/20/02 at 17:28:41 |
| Assalamu alaikum As far as I know: Yasar Nuri Öztürk is absolutely not (!!) popular under the muslims who do care about Islam in Turkey! Well sure there are many ppl who appreciate what he says, and that is unfortunately the majority of the "modern-western" turkish ppl who actually do not care about their Religion that much. Well sisters and brothers....i am afraid we are losing our real scholars slowly, isn't that a sign of yawmul akhir? La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah. Assalamu alaikum Hayal |
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| jannah |
| 05/20/02 at 17:53:26 |
| Although this may lead to something worse I don't see what's so wrong with their decisions?? They did not say women can PRAY while having their period they said they can enter the Mosque -- which is a ruling others have made as well. They also said women can read from the Quran and this too is a ruling of some scholars depending upon the amount of Arabic vs other text etc. Also they allow women to attend the Janaza prayers and of course women should pray the Janaza alongside with anyone else and have done so everywhere from Makkah and Madina on... |
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| bhaloo |
| 05/20/02 at 19:46:56 |
| [slm] [quote author=Learner link=board=ummah;num=1021914480;start=0#0 date=05/20/02 at 13:07:59] In September, the Board decided to take up more controversial questions such as whether Muslim women can marry non-Muslim men. Nearly all Turks are Muslims. Now, both Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslims, but radical Muslims have been seeking to ban Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men. [/quote] This is completely against the teachings of Islam for Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men!!!! >:( |
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| jaihoon |
| 05/21/02 at 00:35:36 |
| 'Towards the Lasp Day, the scholars will become the worst creatures under the sky' [saw] |
| Re: Turkey allows menstrual women to pray |
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| PeaceSeeker |
| 05/21/02 at 01:53:52 |
| [slm] The above news article is missing the best part. Along with the rulings concerning women there was another ruling which is absolutely amazing. The advisory board has also decided that from now on Adhan will be called only in Arabic, not in turkish as it had been the practice. And the salat can only be performed in Turkish only if a person does not know how to pray in arabic. This might sound strange to most of those who are not familiar with Turkeys history but in the past people were arrested for calling the adhan in arabic. Even the Quran could not be read in arabic. Imagine that ! So I guess Turkey has taken a turn for the good. AllahuAkbar |
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| jannah |
| 05/21/02 at 02:06:42 |
| bhaloo ohhh i didn't see that part :( what a shame.. and interesting how they call the practicing muslims "radicals" |
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| jaihoon |
| 05/21/02 at 02:29:55 |
| [quote] This might sound strange to most of those who are not familiar with Turkeys history but in the past people were arrested for calling the adhan in arabic. Even the Quran could not be read in arabic. Imagine that ! [/quote] "What she (Turkey) calls new Is the old song of Europe" - Allama Iqbal |
| 05/21/02 at 02:30:58 |
| jaihoon |
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| Anonymous |
| 05/21/02 at 03:54:58 |
| Assalamu Alaikum Everyone, First of all, I second what sister Jannah says. I am familiar with Prof. Ozturk’s arguments and have been following closely the meetings of the mentioned Board here in Turkey. Prof. Ozturk (a theology professor) considers himself a student of the school of Imam Al-Ghazali, that places the Qur’an as an Islamic reference on top of everything else and relies only on “substantiated” hadith. At the moment I don’t have enough time to refer back to the Qur’anic verses and the hadith he (and the board) uses to back up his arguments as to the above-mentioned issues. Insa Allah, as soon as I finish the work I am currently working on I will post them to you. But as sister Jannah said there have been similar rulings by respectable figures before. So there is no suprise here. I take Prof’s “this is a revolution” statement to mean as a revolution against the "established" but unIslamic traditions/ beliefs. As to the marriage issue I am VERY sceptical. I never heard (or read) either Prof. Ozturk or Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz debate it. I am familiar with both men’s teachings as to family and marriage issues and neither of them suspects and/ or debates the clearly stated Qur’anic verse that forbids marriage between non-Muslim men and Muslim women. Last year when a Turkish girl got married to the Catholic son of the ex-German Prime Minister, Helmut Kohl, this was dismissed as unIslamic by them and other Turkish Islamic scholars. Frankly, I don’t see any valid/good reason why this crystal clear issue will be raised up in the near future. Perhaps and most probably it is to re-state the Islamic ruling and, thus, help prevent further such marriages from taking place. Since Turkey is a secular country there is nothing in the law (to my knowledge) that forbids such marriages and they unfortunately do take place and even increasingly so. A renewed and forcefully stated reminder from the Board will Insa Allah make some people review their marriage decisions. Hayal, I don’t think that Prof. Ozturk is liked by the secular elite in Turkey. To my humble knowledge, he is strongly disliked by both the secular elite and the extremists and he knows this himself. I’ve been reading his works only because of his close association with Imam Al-Ghazali, a scholar that I respect immensely. But I don’t necessarily agree with everything he says. In my opinion, he’s done much good to Turkey above all by convincing the population to start reading the Qur’an in Turkish “in addition to” in Arabic. How can you follow the rulings of a book if you don’t understand it in the first place? This sounds so simple but has been neglected in Turkey for decades. There is nothing wrong in inviting the masses to “understand the essence and message” of the Qur’an. Oh, well there is so much to write about this but, as I said, I have to go back to my work now, Peace Zahra |
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| hayal |
| 05/21/02 at 06:06:48 |
| Waalaikum assalam dear Sister InshaAllah I would like to read what you have about him. But anyways I cannot aggree with this "so-called-scholar" who is appreciating the prohibition of hejab in universities. And I do know what I say, since I am of turkish origin, and my parents have turkish TV and buy Hürriyet, the most read turkish paper in Turkey and even abroad. I saw a lot of interviews with him, and I wont forget one interview in which he "protected" the turkish governments decision of prohibiting hejjab. He was even blaming women who wear hejjab, why they "deny" knowledge! >:( :o And in another "(ramadan-)show" he was asked decent questions about the quran and some ayah, but all he said were things like "quran is nice" and "the words inside are nice"....sorry but that kind of stuff does not help ppl to reflect. anyways....allahu alam. May be that he has good aspects, but the other aspects i told you about are worse in my eyes. My impression is, that he is trying to make the ppl still dependent on asking a "Hoca" (Imam) instead of reflecting and asking themselves what their sense of life really is, and not asking if they can drink alcohol during ramadan just because sylvester falls by chance under that time. Such questions were asked just two years ago, and DITIB (the "islamic council" of turkey-sponsored by gov!) was trying to advice them, "better to avoid" that during Ramadan. Well ok, nice that they did that, but ...ehh?!? isn't it haram at all??..well that is what i miss in the "islamic voice" in Turkey. They try to adjust Islam to the "modern ppl". :( And somebody said, that the Athan in arabic wasn't allowed in Turkey. But that is as far as I know not the case. I mean, there was actually a discussion if they should make the Athan in Turkish and not in Arabic. But I think the most of the ppl didn't agree, thats why it is still in Arabic. Allahu alam let's hope that they won't insist on that discussion, cuz that was the same with the janaza prayer. There was a "femenist" muslim woman, who was murdered, her last wish was that women should pray next to men on her janaza prayer. That's why this topic became to a big discussion in Turkey. But anyways allahu alam. Assalamu alaikum Hayal |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/21/02 at 06:30:59 |
| [slm] a) Give dawah b) Disassociate yourself from heretics eg don't attend their houses , funerals, don't intermarry with them c) Give the heretics a seperate name to show they have left ahl e sunnah wal jamaa , call these heretics Yilmazi's |
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| Anonymous |
| 05/22/02 at 11:27:11 |
| Assalamu Alaikum dear Hayal, I’m glad you responded. Do you live in Turkey or abroad? I live in Turkey and am a lecturer at the university. I’ve read your post with great interest and would like to respond to some of the comments you made. I’d like to clarify from the outset that I don’t follow a particular sect or scholar. If there arises a matter for me that I cannot decide by relying on the Qur’an and/or the established hadith only, then I try to read as much as I can on the matter and seek to pick up the one that makes most sense and upon which there seems to be consensus. “But anyways I cannot aggree with this "so-called-scholar" who is appreciating the prohibition of hejab in universities...I saw a lot of interviews with him, and I wont forget one interview in which he "protected" the turkish governments decision of prohibiting hejjab. He was even blaming women who wear hejjab, why they "deny" knowledge!” I’m sorry but I cannot agree with these statements. He does *not* appreciate the prohibition. I also watched many interviews with him and his basic point regarding hejab is that if the Turkish parliament does not pass a law that allows wearing the hejab in the public institutions (and he strongly supports such a law) then women should dress modestly in the absence of hejab if they “want” to study or work in these institutions. He said the prohibition in question is not only unIslamic but also unconstitutional in secular terms. But I guess you are familiar with the immense political weight of the Turkish military establishment which is itself VERY secular. So I know, you know and Prof. Ozturk knows that the prohibition in question is to stay for a long time, if not forever. He is realistic. I am myself suffering from this heartbreaking issue. What am I supposed to do now? Did I study all these years and earn degrees abroad in order to stay at home and waste this knowledge? I also need to earn money. I do not think the Most-Merciful Allah would be pleased if I wasted the knowledge that I gained with His help and will during all those years. The Qur’an calls on us to seek and share both worldly and religious knowledge. I hate the idea of going outside without a hejab. I feel exposed. But I dress modestly otherwise. Prof. Ozturk argues that in that particular case the sin falls upon those who prohibit the hejab rather than on those who are “obliged” to take their hijabs off and whose hearts are in the right place. But as always Allah knows best. “And in another "(ramadan-)show" he was asked decent questions about the quran and some ayah, but all he said were things like "quran is nice" and "the words inside are nice”. In such kind of half-an-hour shows one cannot go into sufficient depth. I read a couple of his books on the Qur’an and they were quite heavy stuff, difficult to understand sometimes. But this is a man who calls himself a true lover of the Qur’an and claims to have been brought up with the Qur’an (no secular education). Who are we to judge, Allah knows best. My impression is, that he is trying to make the ppl still dependent on asking a "Hoca" (Imam) instead of reflecting and asking themselves what their sense of life really is” My impression is that he is absolutely against the so-called hocas and encourages people to read the Qur’an themselves rather than relying on others. Dear Sister Hayal, many Turks unfortunately are not familiar with the Qur’an’s meaning, including those who pray five times a day. I’ve some relatives who claim to be very religious but when I ask them if they know the meaning of all the duas (supplication) they are reciting during the prayer they simply say no and think that memorising Arabic and repeating it is enough... As I said before I don’t always agree with Prof. Ozturk but I think his emphasis on the importance of reading the Qur’an in Turkish deserves praise in a secular society like ours. Hejab is only one of the serious problems in Turkey. If we need to overcome these problems we need to make some positive personal changes firstly at the individual level and we cannot accomplish that if we continue to remain ignorant of the Qur’an and the established hadith. “And somebody said, that the Athan in arabic wasn't allowed in Turkey. But that is as far as I know not the case. I mean, there was actually a discussion if they should make the Athan in Turkish and not in Arabic. But I think the most of the ppl didn't agree, thats why it is still in Arabic.” True. Perhaps for more than forty years it has been in Arabic and rightly so. “There was a "femenist" muslim woman, who was murdered, her last wish was that women should pray next to men on her janaza prayer. That's why this topic became to a big discussion in Turkey. But anyways allahu alam.” If we are talking about the same woman she was tortured and then murdered by a religious militant group. Does the Qur’an allow such things?...I attribute the existence of such groups to the secular regime. Those at the top don’t make laws in accordance with Islam, generations are brought up in ignorance of the deen and the void is filled by those extremists whose understanding of the deen is limited and very selective and they seek to impose it upon others by force. Very dangerous situation. However, the Qur’an advises hope not despair. So let’s hope the new generation is going to be different from the previous ones and we’ll see a gradual re-awakening of the individual and the society to Islam. There are already millions of devout Turkish people but Insha Allah they will be more knowledgeable in their deen and effectively challenge the political elite one day. Take care, Salam, Zahra |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/24/02 at 12:22:26 |
| [quote author=Anonymous link=board=ummah;num=1021914480;start=0#13 date=05/22/02 at 11:27:11] I’d like to clarify from the outset that I don’t follow a particular sect or scholar. If there arises a matter for me that I cannot decide by relying on the Qur’an and/or the established hadith only, then I try to read as much as I can on the matter and seek to pick up the one that makes most sense and upon which there seems to be consensus. [/quote] [slm] Are you a mujtahid? and what do you mean by following the consensus? ??? |
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| hayal |
| 05/24/02 at 18:12:53 |
| Waalaikum assalam dear sister Zahra I do live in Germany and am a student in Unversity with hejab, alhamdulillah. I sureley am not familiar with the wide sea of knowledge in Islam. What i was telling about is, what impression this Prof. left on me. And I am sorry to say that, but I am still not convinced by his strategy. What I would like to say is also, that I did not say that women who wear off their hejab because of any reason in their life, are no muslims anymore. I did not say that before because I do not think so. I never proclaimed to know what in your heart nor what in any other muslims heart is. I feel with all sisters in this world, who are forced by any other reason to leave any point of their faith. I sincerely (without being misunderstood) would like to say, that I admire the sisters who still wear their hejjab but also who wear it off, because they have no other chance. I do not know what I would have done, and I acknowledge the test Allah has given to you. I would anyways like to clearfy that I did not doubt your Iman nor your knowledge. And actually I am sure, that this Prof. knows much more about Islam than I do. But what I strongly dislike is,his strategy. He is trying to start with critisism in the "muslim" community, which actually is needed, but I am not sure, that especially in this time, this tactic will help the muslims over there. Anyways Allahu Alam. He says that the ppl should not reduce "Islam" to hejab and beard. Welh...cool...ok,....until this point he is right....we shouldnt reduce Islam to that point, but we should also not leave this point out. And especially in Turkey I have more and more the impression, that the ppl do want to hear such a voice which says...."do not worry about that...you can be (and you are even) better muslims than the ones who cover themselves or who dress like muslims". And I still will not change my opinion about him. That does not mean that I feel myself superior to him as a muslim, because that is not my job and not in my capacity. I think my last message was clear concerning that topic. Coming to that murdered woman. Yes it was the case you told us about. And I hope you also remember, that many many voices even from abroad were not convinced of the "proofs" which the turkish gov had "found". They were even under the speculation of having done that on their own. That is what in some countries in Europe even was said. And also some in Turkey. Coming to your question if Islam is propagating that. Sister, since you are a Muslim and do look at Qur'an and Sunnah before you make a decision, you should know better than I what the answer is. Peace/Selam Allaha emanet ol bacim Assalamu alaikum Hayal |
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| A_Stranger |
| 05/24/02 at 18:20:56 |
| [slm] Hmmm....I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so please forgive me if I'm repeating.. This article thing reminds me of a hadith..Rasoolullah [saw] once said that the last hour will be close when menstruating women will pray and think it as correct. They'll pray out of despair cuz they'll think that there is no other way of acquiring good deeds...or something to that effect. Please forgive me if I have a made a mistake with the hadith, I remember reading it somewhere.. Anyhow, the point is, the signs have been established, most of 'em. Its just a case of changing that stroll to a run..we gotta [i]run[/i] to get good deeds - time's flying..which is yet another sign of the Last Day..subhaanAllah. Wassalaamu'alaykum |
| Re: Turkey allows menstrual women to pray |
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| an |
| 05/25/02 at 09:40:45 |
| [slm] Hope the article below can clarify the previous article. http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/05/24052002100341.asp [size=2]Turkey: Secular Country Encourages Women To Take Greater Part In Religious Life[/size] By Jean-Christophe Peuch Reversing centuries of tradition, Turkish authorities have decided that women will be allowed to participate more actively in the country's public religious life, arguing they should be granted responsibilities equal to those of men before Islam. The move appears to be an attempt on the part of religious authorities in the predominantly Muslim but strictly secular country to catch up with transformations that have been stirring in society for many years. It could also serve as a test for Turkey's social cohesiveness. Prague, 24 May 2002 (RFE/RL) -- Religious authorities in predominantly Sunni Muslim Turkey have taken an unprecedented step by ruling that women should be allowed to participate in public religious life in the same way as men. The decision was made at a four-day seminar earlier this month in Istanbul attended by religious clerics and university scholars. The Directorate for Religious Affairs, the state-controlled body that monitors Muslim communities in this secular country, made it public on 19 May. Provisions of the new religious code state that women should be allowed to attend regular prayers in mosques along with men, although they will be required to stay in separate rooms. Likewise, the new regulation says women should be allowed to attend funeral services, but only if they stand behind men. Although the public participation of women in Turkey's religious life has never been governed by written rules, female believers have been customarily kept from mosques and regular prayer meetings, effectively forced to perform religious rites at home. Reversing centuries of tradition under which women were considered unfit to perform sacred rites during menstruation, the clerics and scholars also decided that women should be allowed to pray and read from the Koran during these times. In comments published in the "Hurriyet" daily newspaper on 19 May, the head of the Directorate for Religious Affairs, Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, said believers will remain free to follow the new rules or ignore them, but that clerics and priests will have to abide by them and answer all questions they might raise among the public. Participants at the conference justified their decision by saying that "there is no legal, moral or social differences" between men and women and that Islam should grant them equal responsibilities. Such an assessment invalidates the traditional belief that the testimony given by one man to a religious court equals that of two women. "Hurriyet" quoted Yasar Nuri Ozturk, the dean of the faculty of theology at Istanbul University, as describing some of the new provisions as revolutionary. Nilufer Gole is a Turkish scholar who teaches sociology at the Paris-based School for Higher Studies in the Social Sciences (EHESS). She is the author of many books on women and religion in Middle Eastern societies, including "The Forbidden Modern: Civilization and Veiling." Gole says that, if the decision to open mosque doors to women may be seen as revolutionary, it also meets a social demand: "This reform follows practices that have already been taking place and that have sometimes stirred public outcry, such as women reading prayers at funerals. Such practices are seen as illicit. They are banned under Islam, rather under Islamic rites. [This reform movement] began with women demanding the right to read funeral prayers on the front row, alongside men. This public debate on how to reform Islam has been going on for two or three years now." Semih Vaner is a Turkish researcher at the Paris-based Center for International Studies and Research (CERI). He told RFE/RL that he, too, believes the Directorate for Religious Affairs decided to catch up with ongoing social changes that were most noticeable in urban areas: "I think there was a push in that direction which, to some extent, was limited to Istanbul, Ankara, and other major cities. But the Directorate [for Religious Affairs] did not seem to be shocked by such practices. In my view, [it] has simply decided to accompany this movement, but I doubt it was the initiator of the process. I believe there was a process in the making, that things were changing and that, simply, the Directorate for Religious Affairs chose not to oppose them." Turkey has been a secular state since the proclamation of the republic in October 1923 and the subsequent abolition of the caliphate by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Fearing a backlash by supporters of the Shariah, or Islamic law, Ataturk chose to give secularism a strong anticlerical character, banning religion from public life. His objective was not to abolish religion but rather to free his fellow countrymen from what he considered Islam's sometimes oppressive and backward-looking influence. The democratization of Turkey's political life in the late 1940s allowed for some infringements on Ataturk's staunch secularist principles. That softening paved the way for a lift of a ban on religious education and the opening of training courses for preachers. The rise of the leftist movement in the 1970s resulted in the political and military establishments becoming increasingly influenced by the so-called "Turkish-Islamic synthesis," an ideology that imparted to the Turkish nation a quasi-messianic mission against socialism and communism. This ideology, which culminated after the 1980 military coup, materialized in the opening of new mosques and religious schools throughout the country. By contrast, the Turkish military -- which wields considerable influence on domestic policies -- adopted a radically different attitude over the past decade, pushing for a further "secularization" of Islam to counter the growing influence of Islamic parties. CERI's Vaner believes the decision announced last week, which would not have been possible without the blessing of secular authorities, can also be seen as part of a strategy "to involve women further in politics through religion." Yet, Gole argues that, even though the new regulation may appear to be a bid to force changes on society, it still meets the expectations of many Turkish women: "In my opinion, this reform represents a kind of unexpected convergence between secular women, who have always wanted to be allowed into mosques and occasionally join men for prayers; educated Islamic women who have made similar demands; and traditional women who, too, have strong religious feelings. There is here a new, previously unknown, convergence between these three different figures of [Turkish] woman." Turkey's Islamic parties have not reacted yet to the publication of the new religious code -- a delay that could be explained by a political agenda focused on internal divisions and the prospect of early parliamentary elections following Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit's recent illnesses. Gole believes the way Islamic circles respond to the proposed religious liberalization will show whether the convergence she anticipates between the different types of Turkish women could help consolidate society. Otherwise, she argues, the consequences might be dramatic for the country: "Today we witness a tendency, among secular women, to respond to the rise of political Islam by showing that they can go to mosques and behave in a 'secular' way. To some extent, the religious space is having its sacred character taken away. On the other hand, Islamic women have started appropriating secular spaces such as parliament or universities, also sparking public outcry. So we will see whether the religious reform [adopted last week] will bring those two milieus closer or whether, on the contrary, it will create a gap between them and spark a new social conflict." Participants at the Istanbul seminar chose not to address the sensitive issue of head scarves, which they said will be debated later. Controversy over veils and Islamic head scarves have stirred Turkish society for most of the past two decades and culminated three years ago when Merve Kavakci, a deputy for the moderate Islamic Virtue Party, was evicted from parliament after a failed attempt to take her oath wearing a head scarf. Last year (22 June), the Constitutional Court cited the outcry she had caused when it ruled to ban Virtue for alleged antisecular activities. Last December, prosecutors charged Kavakci with insulting the state and the military by publicly stating that Turkish women who wear head scarves and female students who demand the right to adorn Islamic headgear in classrooms are persecuted. In the late 1920s, Ataturk announced the abolition of veils and head scarves as he was proceeding with plans to emancipate Turkish women from the semi-slavery he argued they had been kept under by centuries of Ottoman rule. Yet no legal action was taken to enforce women's dress codes until the early 1980s when, to counter the rise of political Islam, the government imposed a ban on head scarves in universities and other public institutions. In Gole's opinion, the Islamic head scarf should not be regarded as a symbol of Turkish women's submission to tradition. On the contrary, she writes in "Forbidden Modern," veiling conveys a political statement and should be regarded "as an active re-appropriation on the behalf of women of Islamic religiosity and way of life rather than its reproduction by established traditions." The sociologist says she is anxious to see how Islamic women will react to the liberalization of the religious code. But she cautions against the temptation to politicize the Directorate for Religious Affairs' decision, saying it might not only provoke a rift within society but also put Turkey in an uncertain position toward its Muslim neighbors: "If this issue is examined only from a political viewpoint, Turkey might be, as has often happened in the past, perceived by Islamic militants -- within the country as well as among the rest of the world Islamic community -- as a country that goes against Islam and against its Muslim identity. But if one puts the emphasis on women, if the analysis focuses on the gender issue, then the convergence of demands made by Islamic, secular and other women will become obvious." Gole concludes: "What we see in this reform is not an attempt to establish equality between sexes within religion. Rather, it is an attempt to redefine religious rites in the light of equality between the sexes." |
| 05/25/02 at 09:48:24 |
| an |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/25/02 at 09:53:43 |
| [slm] reminds me of what the pharaoan sadat tried to do ;D ;D ;D some bright yahoodi pen pusher figured that christianity began to decline when the bible was mass produced allowing people to see it's errors so he advised sadat to make the quran freely available.... the opposite happened in Misr and we know what happened to sadat |
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| Anonymous |
| 06/03/02 at 01:28:02 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, Sorry brother, what is a mujtahid? I? just a practicing Sunni Muslim. I mean consensus reached by Islamic scholars. Peace |
| Re: Turkey allows menstrual women to pray |
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| Anonymous |
| 06/03/02 at 01:28:27 |
| Assalamu Alaikum dear Hayal, Thanks once again for your kind reply. I’ve really enjoyed it. So you are a university student in Germany, Masha Allah! I myself studied abroad for a long time. Did I make a right decision by returning to my home country? Well, in so many respects simply yes. But regarding hejab and some academic matters, definitely no. Well, I am here to stay, the decision was made and there is no going back. So under these circumstances I am faced with the dilemma I mentioned before. Hundreds of thousands of girls and women are faced with the same dilemma right now. As I understand some of them simply left their schools without graduating. Some of them took their hejabs off and continued their education and are now working. And in today’s Turkey working has almost become a ‘must’ for women because of the deep economic crisis. And in order to earn a decent salary (decent by Turkish standards, like 200 pounds!) one needs to be educated. Thus, all my heart goes to these female students who are eager to study both to acquire knowledge and to get a career, but are forced to leave their schools because of their hejab. I wear a wig at the university but I am not sure whether this is Islamically acceptable. So many female students resort to this but again I am not sure whether I am doing the right thing. May the Most-Merciful Allah forgive me if what I am doing is wrong... “And especially in Turkey I have more and more the impression, that the ppl do want to hear such a voice which says...."do not worry about that...you can be (and you are even) better muslims than the ones who cover themselves or who dress like muslims".” I wholeheartedly agree with you here. The secular elite says such things. But as I said before and as you hint in your message, the Muslims everywhere, not just in Turkey, should be more knowledgeable in their deen and put this knowledge into practice in the best manner. There are countries (I won’t give any name) whose Sharia law is mixed with quite unIslamic cultural beliefs or where such deeply-rooted cultural beliefs are wrongly considered as part of the religion. What I am trying to say is that once the Muslims practice the deen in the fairest manner as demanded in the Qur’an and as exemplified by our Dear Prophet (saw) then the kind of statement you quoted will be totally baseless. “Coming to that murdered woman. Yes it was the case you told us about. And I hope you also remember, that many many voices even from abroad were not convinced of the "proofs" which the turkish gov had "found". They were even under the speculation of having done that on their own. That is what in some countries in Europe even was said. And also some in Turkey.” Whoever committed this horrible crime may the Most-Just Allah punish him/them. Sen de Allah’a emanet ol sevgili kizkardesim, kendine gurbet ellerde cok iyi bak. Wassalamu Alaikum Brother Muqaddar, sorry but what is a mujtahid?? I am a plain Sunni Muslim. Tonight there was a live debate on TV concerning the new decisions referred in the above articles. I’d like to correct that women who are menstruating are now allowed to visit the mosque but not pray there (Some of Prof. Gole’s statements quoted above are far from reality. For instance, no one is talking about reforming Islam. Her perspective is quite distorted). But I am confused over an issue and I need your kind assistance, especially the one of you whose native language is Arabic. It was argued by a theology academician that the state of menstruation is not referred in the Qur’an as a state of impurity. The Arabic word normally used for impurity, he argued, is not used in this case and another word (I could not hear it well so I cannot quote it here) is used more or less meaning a stressful situation like an illness. He also argued that the Prophet (saw) had allowed his wives and other Muslim women not to pray out of mercy because of the known emotional and physical distresses associated with menstruation. So this academician (like some others) treats not praying in this situation not as a ban but as an allowance exemplifying the merciful treatment of Islam towards women. Any views on this perspective? Many thanks in advance. Salam Zahra |
| Re: Turkey allows menstrual women to pray |
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| mwishka |
| 06/03/02 at 12:20:37 |
| sister zahra, i look forward to the replies people give to what you asked. about this, It was argued by a theology academician that the state of menstruation is not referred in the Qur’an as a state of impurity. The Arabic word normally used for impurity, he argued, is not used in this case and another word (I could not hear it well so I cannot quote it here) is used more or less meaning a stressful situation like an illness. He also argued that the Prophet (saw) had allowed his wives and other Muslim women not to pray out of mercy because of the known emotional and physical distresses associated with menstruation. So this academician (like some others) treats not praying in this situation not as a ban but as an allowance exemplifying the merciful treatment of Islam towards women. Any views on this perspective? Many thanks in advance. not a ban, but a mercy. there is a great difference...... i have asked this repeatedly, of several people, and never gotten a clear or good answer. i hope there is some knowledgable person here who is willing to clear this up satisfactorily. mwishka |
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