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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Pakistan vs India |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/23/02 at 17:50:26 |
| [slm], Do you think its possible ? Do you think both sides are stupid to use Nukes ? Do you think the Kashmir issue will ever be solved ? My view is that India won't go to war until the US leaves its shores otherwise if Pakistan attacks India, a retaliation may also be sought by Bubba Bush. If there is a Nuke war then I think it may be started by Pakistan who have a smaller army and have less resources than India. What are your thoughts ? Hanif |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| salik |
| 05/23/02 at 18:29:06 |
| [slm] I think it's quite likely that india may carry out some kind of attack on the training camps across LOC. How they are going to do it remains to be seen. If they try testing thier unused missles, it'll be a shame if the missiles misfires(which is quite likely) and there are casulties on india's side. and I don't know if india is willing to fly sorties, knowing well there are quite capable anti-aircraft fire on the other side. Lets hope that the situation diffuses and there is a peaceful solution to kashmir. [slm] |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| Kashif |
| 05/23/02 at 18:39:30 |
| [quote author=salik link=board=ummah;num=1022190626;start=0#1 date=05/23/02 at 18:29:06] Lets hope that the situation diffuses and there is a peaceful solution to kashmir.[/quote] Ameen. |
| NS |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 05/23/02 at 22:26:09 |
| [quote author=BroHanif link=board=ummah;num=1022190626;start=0#0 date=05/23/02 at 17:50:26] Do you think its possible ?[/quote] From the way things look right now, very much so! [quote]Do you think both sides are stupid to use Nukes ?[/quote] Both sides *are* stupid, yes! Not stupid enough to use nukes though, I don't think. [quote]Do you think the Kashmir issue will ever be solved ?[/quote] Allaahu a'lam. It will eventually be solved, of course. When and how ... Allah knows best. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| mujaahid |
| 05/24/02 at 04:09:29 |
| [slm] The Pakistan Army are raiding mosques and Madrasas, and arresting Imams and Ulema. They are destroying book which contain Hadiths for Jihad. They are arresting and handing over Mujaahideen to the USA. They are allowing thier land for the US to use to launch attacks against the Afghans Mujaahideen. I get the feeling Allah is about to humiliate Pakistan for what is has done and is doing to the Afghan muslims. :( They have knowne but themselves to blame. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| Kashif |
| 05/24/02 at 06:29:50 |
| assalaamu alaikum I don't know mujaahid. If the situation is as serious as peope are saying, why would Musharraf be arresting those who speak jihad? One would imagine that he would be aiding them bceause they would be amongst the most prepared of people to fight against the Hindu Army of India. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| mujaahid |
| 05/24/02 at 07:45:32 |
| [slm] Thats a good point Kashief, but war with India is inevitable. All its gona take is another attack on the cow-worshipping parliament, which isnallah will happen, as the Hindu government of india SHOULD now all be killed for thier part in supporting the massacre of the muslims in Gujarat. However that will mean India will go to war with Pakistan, a war Pakistan will not one: 1) Because they can forget the help of the Afghan mujaahideen, they have thier own problem, and they wouldnt help the country which caused them so much devastation 2) India and the US and Israel have almost certainly got control or will take control of Pakistan's nukes should war break out 3) Pakistan is now Isolated. India on one side, and the US backed New afghans on the other. Also, the Pak army, and the real muslim areas, they promised civil war, this would be thier oppurtunity to get rid of Mushrraf. Musharraf will not turn to the Jihadi's for help. He dont need them, he has his munaafiq buddies to help him, or so he thinks. Inshallah Musharrafs time is up, and maybe out of all this a real muslim will take control of pakistan, a real Jihadi. Not another spineless munaafiq. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| explorer |
| 05/24/02 at 09:09:35 |
| [quote]Do you think its possible ?[/quote] Yes. If action does start most likely we will see limited strikes across the LOC targetting mujahiden and army camps. The danger with this is losses India incurs during the process which may force it to widen the war across the whole international frontier. Summer isn't the best time for war right now because it takes its toll on troops and tanks cannot cope well under hot conditions, limiting an attackers ability to advance. I think its just the routine barking by the hindu dogs across the border. We witness this all the time. They are cowards right down to the bone and if *ever* win against pakistan, will be due to sheer size, not bravery or strategy. Only their wrecklessness will start a war. [quote]Do you think both sides are stupid to use Nukes ?[/quote] Yes. being the smaller force Pakistan has had to incorporate nukes into its official military doctrine. [quote]Do you think the Kashmir issue will ever be solved ?[/quote] No never. Not until Imam Mahdi's army arrives. Will write more tonight. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| mujaahid |
| 05/24/02 at 11:16:44 |
| Military "experts" dont rate the Indin Army, or its tactics. From BBC News By Jonathan Marcus BBC defence correspondent The Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee has told Indian troops that this is now the time for "a decisive fight" against Pakistan, a country which he said was fighting a proxy war against India in Kashmir. There is all sorts of speculation about a possible Indian punitive strike against bases from which militants prepare for operations across the Line of Control in Indian-administered territory. But while the political pressures for action are strong, India's military options are probably limited. India's army is large but there are doubts about its capability Ever since this latest crisis erupted last December, huge numbers of Indian and Pakistani troops have been confronting each other. Sporadic artillery fire - sometimes heavy - has made numerous casualties. As the tension mounts, so the political pressure on the Indian Government to act is growing. Prime Minister Vajpayee's comments could be dismissed as diplomatic sabre-rattling. Outside the region there are growing fears that an Indian operation launched as a limited punitive strike could escalate into all-out war, maybe even a nuclear confrontation. 'Outdated' But there is also an interesting strategic debate inside India which suggests that its military options may be limited. Some strategic commentators have dismissed India's massive movement of troops and tanks to forward bases as a strategically irrelevant step, reminiscent of the mass European mobilisations of 1914. One Indian think-tank has described this forward deployment as "the act of an outdated armed force, desperately thrashing about in the only way it knows". India's armed forces are large and capable but they are not at the cutting edge of modern military science. Nonetheless India retains significant strategic ambitions and, along with assistance from its major arms suppliers, has embarked upon a wholesale modernisation of its armed forces. But this process is patchy and in some sectors only just getting under way. Risks of deployment Precise punitive attacks require air-launched guided munitions and aircraft capable of carrying them. They require sophisticated intelligence gathering systems which are only just being integrated into India's order of battle. India is responding to the latest tensions in Kashmir in the only way it can - mass military deployment. But such deployments inevitably run the risk of prompting a wider war. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/24/02 at 11:54:12 |
| [slm] If there is a war..Musharaf won't use nukes even if India does cause he's Amrika's executive puppet in chief He's busy persecuting the quran and books of hadith in pakistan so what makes you think he gives a fig about muslims in pakistan? Hindoostani army will practically have a walkover in pakistan like in '71 because the pakistani jawaans have lost the concept of jihad that General Zia shaheed taught them. whereas the leadership of the army is full of incompetants who are there because they kiss and brown nose the amrikans. Very few of the mujahideen in the Subah sarhad have any interest in fighting for the pakistani army because they don't see the difference between it and the hindoo's |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| explorer |
| 05/24/02 at 15:53:08 |
| [quote author=muqaddar link=board=ummah;num=1022190626;start=0#9 date=05/24/02 at 11:54:12] [slm]If there is a war..Musharaf won't use nukes even if India does cause he's Amrika's executive puppet in chief[/quote] Not true at all. If India uses nukes on Pakistan then rest assured pakistan *won't* hesitate for a second in kindly returning the favour. If we never see a nuclear response, the only reason is sabotage. And contrary to what some think America has no control over pakistan's nuclear arsenal, never has and never will. They've tried in the past but failed and responded with sanctions. Even the CIA has no official figure on the number and size of warheads available, rather choosing to estimate. They may have intelligence on the whereabouts of some but tracking every last missile is almost impossible considering the terrain. The only time Pakistan will hesitate to use nukes is during a first strike. But if India strikes first, then it won't be long before you see Delhi and Bombay glow in the dark. [quote]He's busy persecuting the quran and books of hadith in pakistan so what makes you think he gives a fig about muslims in pakistan?[/quote] So if he doesn't care about muslims in Pakistan, then he certainly wouldn't give a monkeys about nuking hindus in india. [quote]Hindoostani army will practically have a walkover in pakistan like in '71 because the pakistani jawaans have lost the concept of jihad that General Zia shaheed taught them. [/quote] You honestly believe that? If that was the case then whats stopping India for this 'walkover'? The hatred, rivalry between the two nations is so immense and bitter that if any one side had the chance of a so called 'walkover' then it would have been done a long time ago to settle the score. And for your information in '71 east pakistan was defeated simply because it was isolated, surrounded and outnumbered. This wasn't the case on the western front where there was no 'walkover' and sure isn't the case today. Today the two armies are facing a bitter stalemate with indian gains in the Rajasthan sector due to its larger size, not bravery or anything else and with possible Pakistan gains in the Kashmir sector. The whole conflict is a double edged sword with massive risks if someone blinks but with the potential of spectacular success if ones strategy goes according to pin point accuracy. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/25/02 at 10:35:21 |
| [slm] Face it the country is controlled by a corrupt quisling who has virtually no support in any other subah except punjab. thus the country has no leadership He has deliberately undertaken a policy of removing people from subah sarhad from the army thus the people are disunited from the army He has already demonstrated his cowardice at least once thus the army is ruled by cowards A sahabi met the minister of Khusrau who laughed at him and said you state you will destroy our army and yet you have a sword thats barely a sword and your scabbard is rags of cloth the sahabi said bring me your strongest shield..the sahabi hit the shield and split it in two...he said 'don't look at the weapon look at the hand that wields it!' the pansy butter hands of this executive thief are ill matched to rule a nation. Allah (swt) supports those who ONLY fear him & who obey the sharia as the prophet promised the worst of the worst will be at the top. we await the army of the black flags |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| explorer |
| 05/25/02 at 13:39:47 |
| Right now my concern isn't what you think about who rules pakistan or the army. My concern is defending Pakistan from the hindus. The fact is the Pakistan armed forces are more than ready for a fight with India and will fight right to the last drop of blood if need be. India will never, I repeat *never*, gain a decisive victory over Pakistan. Pakistan will take India down with them if necessary. It was made for Muslims and to protect them from the Hindus and Sikhs. The armed forces certainly won't stand by and let these muskriks walkover their land. Talk to the men on the ground and you will hear about their determination for a chance at india. They are motivated, professional and prepared to meet any eventuality and rest assured will never let the hindu hordes walkover them without a fight. |
| 05/25/02 at 13:41:50 |
| explorer |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| mwishka |
| 05/25/02 at 18:26:30 |
| ok boys, one day, in a bright future, i'm going to wander into ummah for some interesting and intellectual discussion on some world situation, and in that discussion there will be, um, only the greatest and wisest and most astounding thoughts on the real world, and life with real people, on a real planet. and no one will be taking a field-of-play perspective where all the people of the armies and all the civilian inhabitants and, yes, even the governing individuals, are merely concepts to be tossed about, mere playing pieces on a board, of whom annihilation or decimation or vaporization could be lightly discussed or considered as any kind of decent perspective. can't decide whether to give my viewpoint on this particular REAL situation, or to wait for that bright future. hmmmm....think i'll go away and think about it.... mwishka |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/26/02 at 08:33:04 |
| [slm] [quote]for some interesting and intellectual discussion on some world situation, and in that discussion there will be[/quote] Isnt this interesting for yah...??? [quote]we await the army of the black flags [/quote] And how long you going to wait ??? Iman Mehdi hasn't got a wand or something that when he waves it, peace will be restotred. People have to work for a change, for example, if you want a baby you have to make dua and then adopt the means, nowadays many of the muslims have this dream that when Imam Mehdi comes all will be solved in a flash. What about the time before him, will we not fight for what is right and command people to do good and forbid evil ??? And how do we know that we will be even alive or even on his side. ??? Make dua that we are in his army and then adopt the change in ourselves, family, society and country and then maybe just maybe... Anyway last night I saw Musharraf on the box rallying his troops. I must say he looked determined to fight back in case he got attacked. My view is this, most people in Pakistan will fight back and thats just not the army but everyone. And those guys who are always on about jihad then it is up to them as well to prove that they can walk the talk. And perform defensive jihad. I think India is in for a surprise. May Allah bring peace to the region. Ameen. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| mwishka |
| 05/26/02 at 10:15:42 |
| no bro hanif, that's exactly it - this IS interesting for me, very interesting! that's why i listed ummah third on my "spots to hang out in" list. but, well, i'm a very sensitive girl ;) :D it seems.... i'm not too keen on de-humanizing humans at all. it makes me queasy (i'm sooooo sensitive...), so i, um, would just rather talk on a different level or in a different way about these kinds of things. generally, i feel more comfortable in these discussions when i feel, hear, and sense what my own bias tells me is a muslim perspective on the world: loving, tolerant, practical, with high honor and integrity, never minimizing the horror of human suffering.... and with god's word to back up one's perspective. (i'm simple and silly, and can't much see the differences among people until they tell me in their words and actions what those differences are.) and i'm always curious to learn what islam says and how it would advise one to deal with these difficult situations. (i'm admittedly stuck in this little area - the difference between what islam says, the quran says, god says, and how people live it out. it's my own little problem, and i try not to be too obtuse about it, but it is really a hurdle to my acceptance of islam, this on paper version vs. the in practice version. that's part of why i'm here, to try to reconcile these differences. ideal world and all that, you know.... i'm sorry - you all are in my fishbowl...) mwishka and i have an opinion on everything, unfortunately. that's another reason i keep coming in to these, um, messy ones. |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| muqaddar |
| 05/29/02 at 11:25:59 |
| [slm] Hmm BroHanif did you read Hajja Zainab Al -Ghazzali's book 'The return of the Pharoah' ? Musharaf is the first enemy of pakistan Before we start to get into all this patriotic nonsense perhaps you should ask who and what your fighting for? Currently Pakistan is ruled by a quisling Most of the Army generals who supported the constitution have been killed eg General Nawaz (poisoned) or fired It is already Occupied and it is ruled by kuffar laws and frankly the north west frontier has decided it dosn't want to be part of this heejra state..because this is most definetly NOT why they opted to join pakistan rather than india... i fail to see the difference between a pakistan where the quran and hadith are burned in madrassahs and muslims are killed with napalm and a hindoo india where etc... I don't fight for Urdu because Urdu isn't my language Musharaf can play the patriotic drum all he wants nobody in subah sarhad believes it . Maybe you should ask Saleema what she thinks what people in the Punjab think because she voted for Musharaf |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| Anonymous |
| 06/03/02 at 01:42:10 |
| India has been masquerading as a secular democracy for many years. This facade has been lifted by their atrocities in Kashmir and the actions of Hindu nationalists in Gujarat. If any man claims to be a Muslim and an Indian patriot at the same time...then he is neither....what he is...is a liar and a hypocrite. How can a Muslim support a country that has killed thousands of Muslims and which watches silently while its minorities are being slaughtered? Did no Muslim in India feel a chill go down their spine when the Dargah Hazrat Bal was burnt ( along with personal relics of the Prophet SalAllah-ualihi Wasalam)? Or when Muslim bodies were paraded through the streets of Gujarat? Or when Indian troops raped and killed teenage Kashmiri girls? Or when the babri masjid was destroyed while the police stood watching? I could go on...but If the Indian muslims had no emotions on these occasiosn, then may God help them! Have they looked at their Prime Minister? Have they read statements form nationalists such as Advnai and Bal Thacray? They consider Muslims to be traitors and have gone on record to say that the Muslims must " revert to being Hindus" since that is the religion of their ancestors. India has produced some great Muslim personalities and I have family in India ( in UP) but they too don't have any but they too have no allegences to Delhi any more. It is time that the musalmans woke up form their slumber and recognized that India is nothing more than a Muslim-hating, Hindu nationalist state which sees its salvation in perpetuating the worship of cows, snakes, monkeys, and male penises( the shiva-lingum represents a penis). I respect religious freedom, but you should choose what side you're on?.are you Indian or are you Muslim? You can't be both any longer. May the Lord give us the wisdom to see the truth. And may He grant victory to the Muslims. Amin. Click on this link to see some unbelievable pictures from Gujarat: http://www.pakistanpage.net/gallery/main/IA/IndianAtrocities.html |
| Re: Pakistan vs India |
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| Faiz |
| 06/03/02 at 18:24:42 |
| [slm] And what do you suggest Anonymous? that all the muslims in India get out of their houses shouting takbeer and be shot down? or should they try and migrate to Pakistan? will our Pakistani brethren accept us with open arms. like they accepted the Mohajirs? and what about Kashmir? if it succeeds in it's struggle, what does it achieve? it just goes from under a kuffar rule to a namesake Islamic country which stabbed Afghani mujahideen in their backs?! maybe even *that* is good for the Kashmiris, but just imagine the plight of millions of Muslims in India who would be tormented all over India because their brothers elsewhere seceded from the country. don't get me wrong brothers, i am a Muslim first and then anything else. i just feel that this talk about nuking each other is not very constructive... and i can't think of a solution either...other than wait for Imam Mehdi. may Allah SWT grant Muslims everywhere peace. Ameen. wassalam... |
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