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is it right for sister's to work?
Faiz
06/10/02 at 22:50:53
[slm] i donno whether i am allowed to post here, but i wanted the sister's perspective on this one. so please excuse me...:) If a Muslim woman cannot go out without a mehraam: 1) Can she study in a school/college where there would be  guys around? 2) Can she work? where i come from, there are two extreme patterns of behaviour: 1)sisters follow a complete 'purdah'[veil], go to a girl's only Urdu school where they learn more about deen than duniya, drop out of school around the 10th grade and then get married and become homemakers. 2)drop the hijab completely (though most of them still dress modestly, shalwar-kameez etc.), pursue higher education and a career. i have even seen a lot of them praying 5 times, but they consider hijaab to be a strict no-no :( and over here in the West, i have seen sister's wear the scarf Hijab, participate actively in community events, go to unversities et al. and from this board, i have also gathered that some sisters work...i.e. have careers. so What is the correct Islamic way? jazakAllah Khair, wa salaam, ;-) P.S: any links, Q/As explaining this tricky topic are very welcome!!

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
jannah
06/11/02 at 03:38:04
brother faiz, not sure where you're from... but a lot of that stuff is particular to certain cultures... but to read the islamic perspective which is pretty flexible check this :   http://www.jannah.org/genderequity  it's a nice overview of stuff.

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Barraa
06/12/02 at 01:58:20
[quote author=Faiz link=board=sis;num=1023763853;start=0#0 date=06/10/02 at 22:50:53] [slm] If a Muslim woman cannot go out without a mehraam: 1) Can she study in a school/college where there would be  guys around? 2) Can she work? [/quote] ok allah made women to live in their homes. for the back up and stuff for this e-mail me. but we'll see...

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Kathy
06/12/02 at 08:12:35
[wlm] Barraa- I am sure the above statement is an incomplete one. Could you please explain what you mean. Please keep in mind Ayiesha, Khadejah, other sahabah's wives and many of the other women who helped Prophet Muhammad pbuh as you answer.

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
jannah
06/12/02 at 11:19:32
umm if Allah made women to live in their homes, he made men to do so as well. so can you prove both statements?
06/12/02 at 11:20:05
jannah

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Faiz
06/12/02 at 14:59:24
[slm] Jazak Allah Khair sis Jannah. i am from Bombay, India, and the observations were about the Muslims in my city and also other places in India. the article was nice and rounded. i will have to re-read it many times though po get the complete import :) and sis could you suggest some literature which tells *why* hijab is necessary (the Ayahs and Hadiths) and also the *extent* to which it is necessary (as in the scarf or the veil) This is what i gathered from the Gender Equity article: - the primary role of a woman in Islam has been defined as that of a Home Maker. - but that does not mean that women have to be confined to the house. they can be socially active and even take up jobs which would be beneficial to the community. (though what sis Barraa says contradicts this!! ???) - if the financial need arises, they may even pursue full-time careers. now here is my problem: i have sisters who, alhamdulillah, have had professional education. and now they want to pursue careers they were trained for. now my family is doing well and we are not in financial needs, alhamdulillah. so would it be right on my part to suggest to them against working? and they don't take very kindly to these suggestions. they call me a chauvinist etc., which i most definitely am not  :'( wa salaam
06/12/02 at 15:09:33
Faiz

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
nouha
06/12/02 at 16:34:02
[slm] mubarak to your sisters who have pursued their careers. faiz... if a women has a talent in a field... teaching, nursing, chemist etc, then by all her means, let her use the talent only Allah(SWT) has provided for her! Allah(SWT) has given everyone somethign unique about them so it would be a waste to just let it go if its such a beautiful gift. wasalam nouha:)

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Faiz
06/12/02 at 16:53:00
[wlm] thanks sis Nouha!! i am really proud of them. and being their only brother i was their strongest supporter when it came to their education. but now after reading what role Islam assigns a woman (i must confess i wasn't aware of these things till sometime back) there is some confusion in my mind as to whether they would be able to pursue their career and at the same time live within the framework of Islam. one of my sisters is into Finance and the other is a Nutrition Specialist. and if they pursue normal jobs they would have to keep long hours and they would most likely interact with men. ...and i am wondering how they could balance this with what Islam prescribes for them... Jazakallah Khair, wa salaam

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Barr
06/13/02 at 02:09:48
Assalamu'alaikum :) Dear brother, May Allah reward you for your concerns and support that you gave your sisters, mashaAllah :) [quote]now my family is doing well and we are not in financial needs, alhamdulillah. so would it be right on my part to suggest to them against working?  [/quote] In addition to have a career, I think there is a need to take a step back and see the role of having a particular career or job itself. Is a job solely to seek money? Perhaps, that can be one reason why people work, than remain jobless.. however, having a job also means doing something that you like, applying Allah's gifts as Sis Nouha has mentioned... and also, to know and play our role in society as well. As mentioned in the article posted above, women have a lot to contribute to society as well. And if Allah has given them the gift of knowledge, competency and skills to contribute to society, why would then, they be stopped to be amongst those people who enjoins good through their contributions by working? Would we not want to see a society that progresses and develops and be a part of that? Intentions change everything... and it is from intention that colours whether something that we embark on receives barakah or otherwise. And the same goes when we have a job.  And the question to ask is why we're in this line, why we're doing all of this, and ultimately, whether what we do is for Allah. Once we're clear on this, then, nitty gritty that entails with a job can be addressed with the right framework. In addition, being clear on our objectives, would give a heightened self-development as well. Working, as you know, is a part of self development as well... and the challenges that a person faces while working, to me, is character building. [quote]and if they pursue normal jobs they would have to keep long hours and they would most likely interact with men.[/quote] Do you mean, long hours as in 8 hours per day or...? As for interaction with men, I think there is nothing wrong with interaction with men, provided that it is within the boundaries of Islam, and that includes observing adab while interacting and having mutual respect. I feel that men and women can learn so much from each other, and develop so many positive and progressive things, when we put our minds and hearts together. Islam does not prohibit male-female interaction. What it prohibits are interatcion that is void of boundaries and respect, that would only be detrimental not only to the individual, but to the society as well. As with all things, there is a need to weigh things out, and see the balance in things. We are a moderate nation (ummatun wasata), and keeping the balance, is where the challenge is. I think I'd better stop now and get back to work! :) Take care, Wassalam :-)
06/13/02 at 08:17:25
Barr

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
momineqbal
06/13/02 at 02:18:56
[slm] bro! Take any advice you get regarding this together with your own circumstances and situations that exist in your place. The atmosphere in India right now regarding women might be influenced a lot by likes of shabana azmi, tasleema nasreen and others. So you have to be very gentle and careful about telling your sisters about what their role should or should not be. Our sisters are under constant bombardment by a lot of different people. Another thing is that we should try not to put the cart before the horse in Islam, which unfortunately many times we do end up doing due to lack of holistic thinking and deficiency in our knowledge about our deen. I would leave that to you to figure the previous sentence, since I do not have enough knowledge to articulate the idea very well. May Allah make this matter easy for us, ameen! Wassalam Eqbal

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Faiz
06/13/02 at 20:21:46
[wlm] Jazakallah Khair sis Barr, what you said makes a lot of sense!! and brother Eqbal you're right too when you say that one should constantly evaluate things in the context of the existing situation. and about the likes of Shabana Azmi...the media likes to potray "emancipated" muslim women like her as role models for  the Indian Muslims. but the fact of the matter is that their only claim to Islam is that they were born in a Muslim family... Jazakallah Khair everyone, this discussion (along with some parallel reading) has helped me rationalize a lot of stuff. wassalam...

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Barraa
06/15/02 at 02:00:22
[quote author=Kathy link=board=sis;num=1023763853;start=0#3 date=06/12/02 at 08:12:35] [wlm] Barraa- I am sure the above statement is an incomplete one. Could you please explain what you mean. Please keep in mind Ayiesha, Khadejah, other sahabah's wives and many of the other women who helped Prophet Muhammad pbuh as you answer.[/quote] allah made the women to stay and raise their children at their homes. ok sis kathy you guys were right in ONE way as this following hadith says: Narrated Al-Aswad bin Yazid: I asked 'Aisha "What did the Prophet use to do at home?" She said, "He used to work for his family, and when he heard the Adhan (call for the prayer), he would go out." and i was right too: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The best women among the camel riders, are the women of Quraish." (Another narrator said) The Prophet said, "The righteous among the women of Quraish are those who are kind to their young ones and who look after their husband's property . "

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Barraa
06/15/02 at 02:06:15
and also forgot to say: those ahadith are from sahih al-bukhari

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Kathy
06/15/02 at 09:12:51
[slm] Barra- a woman working can also be kind to their young ones and look after their husband's property. This hadith does not prove your statement.

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
amatullah
06/15/02 at 16:39:24
Title of Fatwa Women Holding Public Positions   Date of Fatwa  20/ May/ 2002   Date of Reply 20/ May/ 2002   Topic Of Fatwa  Working Issues     Question of Fatwa As-Salamu `Alaykum. I was recently the president of the Muslim Student Association (MSA) at our local university. My term just ended last week because of our new elections. When I was president, our MSA brothers all dropped out. Though they never mentioned anything to me directly, I received repeated hints that they dropped out because I am a sister and not a brother. My proof that this was the main reason for the brothers leaving the MSA came when the new president emailed me that he did not want me to think that was why he ran for election and when the sheik we invited to our picnic out of the blue mentioned that in Islam a woman can be in a public position. Basically, I wish to inform my brothers that they were wrong. I would appreciate if you could email me anything in the Qur'an or Hadith that would support or deny a women's right to be an active leader in the community. I know that as long as she is not the Khaleefah she can hold a position, so please email me the supporting evidence. Jazakum Allah Khayran.   Name of Mufti Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi   Content of Reply Wa `Alaykumu As-Salamu wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Sister in Islam, we really appreciate your efforts in pursuit of knowledge, which is an Islamic obligation upon all Muslims, males and females. As regards your question, we’d cite the following Fatwa issued by the well-known Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, says: "Woman's invaluable work, in fact, is to look after her children and husband. As for employment, which is meant for earning a living, she is permitted to do it provided that the following conditions are met: First, it should be legal. The Muslim woman is not permitted to work in a place where she will be in privacy with non-Mahram (marriageable) man, or in clubs where she is supposed to offer alcohol to people. Second, she should abide by the Islamic morals in dress, talk, etc. Third, woman's employment should not be at the expense of her immediate work, namely caring about her children and husband. Accordingly, [u] the Muslim woman is permitted to go to work as long as she is in need of money and there is no person responsible for her maintenance, and the above conditions are met. [/u], In this context, we should recall the story of the daughters of Prophet Shu`ayb, peace and blessings be upon, about whom the Glorious Qur'an says, "And when he (Prophet Musa) came unto the water of Midian he found there a whole tribe of men, watering. And, he found apart from them two women keeping, back (their flocks). He said: What aileth you? The two said: We cannot give (our flocks) to drink till the shepherds return from the water; and our father is a very old man." (Al-Qasas: 23) Apparently, Prophet Shu`ayb's daughters went out to give water to their flocks because their father was an old man and they had no brothers. Admittedly, the Muslim society is in need of working women in certain fields such as education and medicine in order to educate and treat women. As for the woman's work in judiciary, Abu Haneefah permits her to be a judge in cases that her witness is accepted in, i.e., in cases other the criminal ones. Ibn Hazm and At-Tabaree, however, are of the opinion that the woman can be a judge in all cases. Here, we should keep in mind that the permissibility of appointing woman as a judge does not necessitate it. Rather, the public interest of the Muslim society and the welfare the woman herself and the family should be the main criterion in deciding whether it is necessary to appoint a woman in such serious position or not. A woman is not allowed to be a governor, a ruler, or a Caliph of a Muslim state because often she cannot bear the burdens of that tremendous job. We say "often" to refer to the fact that there may be some women who are more powerful and forbearing than some men. Yet, this is unusual and the Islamic rulings, therefore, cannot be founded upon the exception. There is no wrong, then, if a woman is appointed as head of an institution, or Member of Parliament as long as it is within the interests of the Muslim society." Conclusion: 1- According to Sheikh Al-Qaradawi's Fatwa, you are blameless for nominating yourself as a candidate in the elections of MSA presidency, for it is not a caliphate office. 2- It was the duty of those brothers who dropped out of the Association to give you sincere advice and to explain why they did so. 3- Muslim associations in the West shoulder a great responsibility, namely caring about the welfare of Islam and Muslims, and therefore Muslims should support them irrespective of the gender of their leaders. 4- Muslims now are in need of understanding what Muslim scholars call as Fiqh Al-Awlawiyyat (Discernment of Priorities), which requires Muslims to concern themselves with the fundamental issues and disregard trivialities. Thus, it was the duty of the brothers of the MSA to be more active and support the Association in order to bring forth its avowed fruits. 5- The questioner, the ex-president of the MSA, was put in her position by the voters, and so it became binding upon all members of the Association to give loyalty to her as long as there was nothing Haram (unlawful) committed. Allah Almighty knows best.
06/15/02 at 16:40:41
amatullah

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
amatullah
06/15/02 at 17:16:18
Women Working Alongside Men Question: What is Islam's view of women working alongside men? Response: It is known that when women go to work in the workplaces of men this leads to mixing with men and being in private with them. This is a very dangerous matter that has dangerous consequences and negative results. [u]  It is in clear opposition to the texts of the Shariah that order the women to remain in their houses and to fulfill the type of work that is particular for her and upon which Allah has fashioned her nature, which is far from the place where she will mix with men. [/u] The clear, authentic evidences that indicate that it is forbidden for men and non-related women to be in private together and for men to look at women are numerous. There are also much evidence that what leads up to those forbidden ends are also forbidden. The evidences are many, clear and decisive that the mixing between the sexes is forbidden as it leads to negative and blameworthy results. Among those evidences are the following: "Stay in your houses and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance and offer prayer perfectly and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only wishes to remove evil deeds and sins from you, O members of the family [of the Prophet] and to purify you with a thorough purification." (al-Ahzab 33). "O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" (al-Ahzab 59). "Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornments except only that which is apparent and to draw their veils over necks and bosoms and not to reveal their adornments except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their women or the (female) slaves, or old male servants who lack vigor, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful" (al-Nur 31). "And when you ask them, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts" (al-Ahzab 53). The Prophet (peace be upon him) himself said, "Beware of entering upon women. the women who are non-mahram." They said, "O Messenger of Allah, what do you say about the in-laws?" He said, "The in-laws are death."1 The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) categorically prohibited privacy between a man and a non-related woman. He said, "Satan is the third."2 He also prohibited traveling except in the presence of mahram males in order to close the door to the roads that lead to evil and sins and to protect the two parties from the plotting of Satan. That is why it is confirmed from him that he said, "Be wary and cautious of this world and be wary and cautious of women. Verily, the first trial that afflicted the Tribes of Israel was with respect to women."3 Another hadith states, "I have not left behind me any temptation more harmful for men than women."4 These clear verses and Ahadith indicate that it is obligatory to avoid the mixing of the sexes that leads to evil and lewdness and the destruction of societies. When we look at the plight of women in some of the Muslim countries we see that she has become a disrespected working servant because of her leaving her house and taking roles that are not her responsibility. The wise people in those lands and in the lands of the West are calling for the return of the woman to her natural roles that Allah has prepared her for and for which her body and mind are me attuned to. But this call is coming too late. There are enough jobs for women in their houses, teaching positions and other places related to women that make unnecessary for her to take on jobs in the workplace of men. We ask Allah to protect our land and the lands of all Muslims from the plots and machinations of their enemies. May Allah guide those charge and the rest of the media to lead people to what is best for them in both this life and the Hereafter. May Allah guide them executing the commands of their Lord and Creator who is most knowledgeable of what is in their best interests. May Allah bless and guide the leaders of the lands of the Muslims to what is be for the Muslims and the country with respect to their livelihood here and their resurrection. May Allah save us and them and all the Muslims from the misguidance of temptation and the causes of destruction. He is the One with the Power and Ability to do that. Shaikh ibn Baz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Footnote 1. Recorded by al-Bukhari and Muslim. It implies that such close relations can easily lead to adultery which has the death penalty.--JZ 2. Recorded by Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi. Al-Albani says it is sahih. Al-Albani, Sahih al-Jami, vol. 1, p. 234.-JZ 3. Recorded by Muslim.--JZ 4. Recorded by al-Bukhari and Muslim.--JZ

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
amatullah
06/15/02 at 17:18:09
Permissible Work for a Woman Question: What are the permissible types of work for a Muslim woman to work in without being in contradiction with the teachings of her religion? Response: The places of work for women are those places that are specific for women. For example, she may work in woman's education, either in administration or otherwise. She can also work in her house by being a tailor for women and so forth. It is not allowed for her to work in areas which are exclusive for men because in that case she must mix with men and this is a great source of trial and temptation that one must beware of. One must realize that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "I have not left behind me any temptation more harmful for men than women."1 "Verily, the [first] trial that afflicted the Tribes of Israel was with respect to women."2 A man must keep his family and wife from falling into such temptations and their causes under all circumstances. Shaikh ibn Uthaimin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Footnote 1. Recorded by al-Bukhari and Muslim.--JZ 2. Recorded by Muslim. The Arabic text of this work presents these two hadith as one hadith. In reality, they are two hadith.--JZ

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
muslimah853
06/21/02 at 12:43:12
[slm] I find it very interesting that some of the conditions applied to women working are not assumed to apply equally to men.  The rules for intermingling of the sexes apply to both genders, men are not exempt from them.  It is just as haram for a Muslim man to be alone with a non-mahram woman as it is for a Muslim woman to be alone with a non-mahram man.  So if he has a job which requires him to do this, why is it that we don't get all bent out of shape about it, ordering him to the home never to leave again unless escorted by his wife? The fact of the matter is that throughout Islamic history, from the time of our beloved, Allah bless him and give him peace, on down, Muslim women contributed on many levels to Islamic society.  They have been scholars, writers, doctors, midwives, teachers, traders, and so forth.  Many of them have also been devoted mothers and wives.  The two are not mutually exclusive.  Someone already mentioned the mothers of the believers, may Allah have mercy on them all, and they did many things, from playing a major role in preserving the mushaf, to teaching people in the deen, to taking care of the poor.  There are also other examples, such as Anas Khatun, the wife of the great Imam ibn Hajar al Asqalani, who was a great scholar of hadith in her own right, the mother of Abu Sufyan ath Thawri, who devoted herself to work in order that her son may pursue sacred knowledge without having to worry about earning a living, to Nana Asma'u, one of the daughters of the great Shaykh Uthman dan Fodio who was a scholar, historian, poet, teacher and political leader as well as a wife and mother of five sons.  There are many other examples.  Many of our most outstanding luminaries in the Islamic sciences were taught by women.  But today we feel that women can only sit in the house.   The fact of the matter is that we have some *very* capable sisters who have alot to contribute to our communties, yet we're so eager to shut them out.  The fact is, at this point, we need every capable hand that we have available. Where does all this rhetoric leave women who are barren, or not married?  Do they have no life calling?  I've always been taught that the primary responsiblity of human beings, male or female, is to worship Allah.  In His Infinite Mercy, He has created a variety of ways that we can accomplish that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against motherhood, wifehood, and all that.  I am married, and a stay at home mother to my three young children.  In spite of having a college education, I have decided to make my primary occupation raising my children.  But I also happen to serve on the board of the local masjid as well as being involved in coordinating Islamic educational programs on a national level.  I do freelance writing, prison outreach, and other things by the grace of Allah.  Al hamdulillah. If we're honest, we'll find that the primary responsibility of a *man* is his home and family as well, though that doesn't stop him from having responsibilties in the public sector.  Again, the two are not mutually exclusive, the key here being something called balance. [wlm]

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
an
06/23/02 at 12:45:49
[slm] In regards to Sura Al-Ahzab, if you see the previous ayat (ayat 32), Allah was directly referring to the Prophet's wives. This is because they are the Mothers of the Believers... the women alongside the Prophet (SAW) who are expected to have the highest standards of morals and characteristics. It because of this title that Allah has given them, that Allah warn them to live up to that standard. [32] [u]O Consorts of the Prophet! ye are not like any of the (other) women[/u]: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complaisant of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just. [33] And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance: and establish Regular Prayer, and give Regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye Members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. Also for ayat 53,  you also ought to see the full ayat. Where this too refers to his wives. [53] O ye who believe! enter not the Prophet's houses, - until leave is given you - for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the Truth. [u]And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. [/u]Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah's sight an enormity. It also saddens me to see women being restricted from the rightful right they have. No where does it say  in the Qur'an that women are not allowed to work. Ofcourse there are boundaries such doing halal work, not getting too close to men, etc. Why restrict women from contributing to the society? We already know about Khadijah working. What about the women in The Prophets time who went to war to help the wounded? Aren't they around men too? As long as women hold tight to Allah's rules, there's nothing wrong with them working. Ofcourse, it is better for a mukminin to stay at home rather than "dazzling themselves" somewhere doing nothing particularly useful. But when you work, you are contributing something, you're *not* aiming to give a "dazzling display" of yourself.  You are using your talents, your skills that Allah has given you. I am also not oppose against motherhood because I think motherhood is such a beautiful thing. In your hands are the future of the society. I guess I'm just saying that in some Muslim societies, women have been denied their right in playing their full part in society whereas Islam.. the true Islam doesn't promote this kind of behaviour. Wallahu Alam [wlm]
06/26/02 at 19:17:11
an

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Barraa
06/23/02 at 14:54:31
[quote author=Kathy link=board=sis;num=1023763853;start=0#13 date=06/15/02 at 09:12:51] [slm] Barra- a woman working can also be kind to their young ones and look after their husband's property. This hadith does not prove your statement.   [/quote] To look after their husbands property, please don't take me wrong, but i was right. what is their husbands property? where he lives and where he owns. but i also heard that if a womans husband dies and she needs to make a living, it's o.k. but under this point i heard its not permissionable. maybe doing a home work, such as selling your sewings, doing henna for women and girls etc...that's a womans job anyways. you cannot bring a man and tell him do my henna or for my friend. its not a mans job anyways. hope that gave you an idea. salam

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Aliya
06/23/02 at 16:13:25
Salam, In respons to your question I totally agree in the way Barr persieves the situation. Although it is important to realize that u have to take ur personal circumstances and situations into consideration before decided something. “Intentions change everything... and it is from intention that colours whether something that we embark on receives barakah or otherwise. And the same goes when we have a job.  And the question to ask is why we're in this line, why we're doing all of this, and ultimately, whether what we do is for Allah.   Once we're clear on this, then, nitty gritty that entails with a job can be addressed with the right framework. In addition, being clear on our objectives, would give a heightened self-development as well. Working, as you know, is a part of self development as well... and the challenges that a person faces while working, to me, is character building.” Another point I would like to mention here is talk with ur sisters regarding the whole situation, explain ur feelings, take ur parents decision into consideration. My personal advice is at the end let ur sisters decide on this, afterall they are individuals and have a personal contact with God. And pray to God to guide us all. Aliya

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Jasmin
06/25/02 at 09:40:39
[slm] We know that Khadija may Allah be pleased with her, was a business woman and the Prophet may peace and blessings be upon him worked for her prior to marriage... But, from what I know,  she also financially support and provide for him during their marriage, before and after his prophethood. And lets remember that Aisha may Allah be please with her -- I believe there is a hadith that says to take half our deen from her ... and she, despite the fact that she was young and healthy, never had children of her own.   So if a Muslim woman's main purpose is to be a mother then how is it that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala did not give someone who we are suppose to take half our deen from, any children? [wlm]
06/25/02 at 13:05:57
Jasmin

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Aliya
06/25/02 at 11:05:28
Salam, Dear Jasmin, to be honest i did not know that Aisha (ra) did not have any children of her own. Actually I haven't red that many hadiths, so can't reflect on this. Could u or anyone give a bit more information on this...like where did u find this piece of information...? In reponse to ur post I agree on what u are stating. To this I would like to add the following statement: "Muslim women's main purpose isn't being a mother...Muslim women's main purpose or let me say every Human beings' main purpose is to search for the 'right' path, walk towards the 'right' path and try to stay on the 'right' path.

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
nouha
06/25/02 at 14:13:12
[slm] the way i see it is.... if u teach a man.... u just teach a man but if u teach a woman..... u teach a whole family so its important to educate our women in the education field and let them get experience in the wokring feild...... wasalam nouha:)

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Umm-Ahmad
06/26/02 at 04:43:47
[slm] I agree with the sisters who have cited that nowhere in the Quraan does Allah banish us to the home permenantly!  Women are HALF of society, and therefore they can and should play an active role in that society!  Being a stay-at-home mom is the greatest job, but there are sisters who either cannot afford to do that, or just feel that they have more to contribute to the society at large.  They have the right to take up employment outside the home as long at their work does not go against what Allah has prescribed for us. I recently met a young sister studying law in an Islamic country.  She said that she wanted to become a lawyer, because she felt that she could help women in particular with their legal problem, problems that men are often either oblivious to or very callous about.  Her intention, and inshaAllah, her work will be rewarded.   Thinking about a more personal example: I visited Afghanistan earlier this year as part of a relief team of medical personnel.  I can't tell you how in demand we as women doctors were, because the Afghan women were very reluctant to be seen by male doctors!   I can NEVER endorse the mentality that many Muslims and Muslimas have that the woman's place is in the home ONLY!  There are many fields in society that NEED a woman's contribution!  Dont you agree?  I am sure all of you can think of many more examples... Just a thought, yes, Ayesha (ra) did not have any children.  There was a divine plan behind why she was married so young, and why she never had kids...and remember that she taught MEN and related Ahadith to MEN, and she was one of the best knowers and relaters of Ahadith in the history of Islam.   We should also not forget that men die, men and women get divorced, men are sent to prison, and many other scenarios where they "disappear" from the family.  The woman is then left with the burden of supporting her family.  What can she do if she has not studied? How will she be taken advantage of in the workplace because she has never been in it before? And is not used to interacting with people? As an educated mother, you could even work from HOME! Or as I do, work half day from home, I run my practice, and I am still able to perform my duties in the home and look after my son.  Should something happen to my husband, and may Allah prevent anything, he will know that I am FULLY CAPABLE of taking care of the family!   Ok, I drifted a bit, please forgive me.  But this is ONE issue that can get me so mad and I feel very passionate about woman's rights! Salamat to all Umm Ahmad :-)

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
amatullah
06/26/02 at 15:31:34
Bismillah and salam, I know this is such a difficult topic to discuss. I used to work and had the same mentality. The only reason i will insha'Allah write this is because one day Allah will ask if I knew something why i didn't say it. I am not into arguing this topic. i will only state some information. Allahuma inni ballaghtu, fash-had. -"So if he has a job which requires him to do this, why is it that we don't get all bent out of shape about it, ordering him to the home never to leave again unless escorted by his wife? " Well for one thing it is a Fardh on him (obligation) to go out and work and pay for his family. Which creates certain rules and he has to go for the least harm and harmful. we don't have to. We are more obliged to guard our modesty. I don't think it is right to say that three out of the most prominent scholars of islam of the century(bin baz, bin othaimain, qardawi) are just getting "bent out of shape" about women's work. I think they deserve more respect. We need to look at what is the role of women in muslim society. Islam is a way of life, it is economics, political, everything. There is a huge financial set-up that is affected by this. It is why the men get more in inheritance,etc. I agree women have contributed alot to society. but why is it that we run after what is not mustahab for us UNLESS we fall under certain conditions? -I want to make a clear distinction here between the education of women and women joining the work force. one is an obligation on us the other is not. And even the one that is an obligation, it has to be done in a halal way in so much as it is possible. Ex. learning in women's only spaces, if only the teacher is male, online, etc until you reach a situation where it might be mixed (in the sense that it is commonly a jaheleyya way of teaching and learning society nowdays, but then you apply the rules on yourself which means hijab, averting the gaze,etc) There is a hadeeth often misused, without understanding. This is taken from alimam annawawi book: (my translation obviously) "Intentions change everything" - His saying peace be upon him : ( Innama ala3malu binneyat = but the actions are by the intentions )  he meant by it the 6a3at (obediences) actions not actions that are merely legal (muba7at). Al-Hareth Almhasbi said : the sincerity do not include the legal (muba7) because it does not include a [on a canteen and do not lead to a canteen as the structure improvement no for the purpose of the carelessness] But if the purpose was to build a mosques... then it is preferable (Musta7ab). He said : and there is no sincerity in Mu7arram or makrooh as who looks on to that which he shouldn’t and he claims that he looks at that so that he contemplates Allah’s signs/creations… And the second state which causes the actions to be  miscarried (7abi6a) is that its goal is to demand of this world and the hereafter. some of the scholars followed that this action is closed and showed evidence by his saying peace be upon him in the information : ( says the god : I was above the richest partners then who made an action he included in him an except then I are an innocent from him ) . -"In regards to Sura Al-Ahzab, if you see the previous ayat (ayat 32), Allah was directly referring to the Prophet's wives. This is because they are the Mothers of the Believers... the women alongside the Prophet (SAW) who are expected to have the highest standards of morals and characteristics. It because of this title that Allah has given them, that Allah warn them to live up to that standard. " There is a hadeeth that says that one who interprets quran according to his own opinion has erred even if he is right. Many say it is only for the wives of the prophet. (sadly some peopel say that about hijab as well) There are many ayas that came revealed for a reason who is a person, but their wisdom and whatever they made sharee3a is not exclusively for them. Please see the tafseer i only have it in arabic of this aya. For one thing it is safe to say that the dazzling display you metnion includes any unlawful adornments like make-up or perfume, which most women do when they go to work. But regardless, the point is: ACcording to the scholars of tafseer the aya 32 and on it falls not just for the ummahat almu'mineen. (check it out in arabic here if you know it: http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?nType=1&bm=&nSeg=0&l=arb&nSora=33&nAya=32&taf=KATHEER&tashkeel=0) If we agree that our purpose here is to worship Allah, then we see if we are all in need of to copy the prophet in things that are 3ibadat,etc. But as women, we also have to follow the mothers' of believers for guidance in their way of life, their adornments, clothes, etc. Perhpas i am stricter to some, but even in the thread where you guys discussed whether it is ok to change our islamic trademarks to be more westernized, it seemed to be in agreement that it is good if it is for da3wah but the prophet may peace and blessings be upon him had told us not to imitate the kuffar not in our hair or dress or anything and to me that would more of the decisive factor. They did tableegh of the message with the prophet as well and it attracted people the simple fact that they had something different even from other Arabs in the aread, and then later to other nations surrounding, and much more. walhemdulilah without that compromise. But all in all, this is not a huge issue, beacuase it doen't fall under your worship directly, but it can be. SO there are more important thigns of 3aqeeda to consider here. Unlike the other issue. anyway back to the issue. if the mothers' of believers basically were Mahram to all the muslim men and they still wore niqab, talked from behind a screen, had all these things, why should we when the men are not as good, and the iman in general is less as seen by the state of the ummah, compromise these aspects of worship and run to what is not considered even worship for us? What I mean to say is there is a hadeeth saheeh that says a woman who does her basic 3ibadat and obdient to her husband can enter jannah from which ever door she wants. Another hadeeth states that our taking care of the home and husband is considered our jihad. Yes some women worked, some women went to the battle field,etc. But keep in mind these were exceptions, not the majority. and there were cases where it is necessary to do so. And to even help you understand the importance of this more is the fact that the Aisha herself which everyone uses as an example (although i have no knowledge that she worked with men even though she would be considered their mother) said that if the prophet had seen the way women look when they go to the mosque nowadays, that he wouldn't allow them to go. Moreover, you are all right in saying that we are allowed to go to the mosque, but think about it in all honesty in your heart. If we are not even allowed to do a fareedha like hajj without mahram, and if the prophet peace be upon him has clearly said that our prayer is better in our property than it is in the masjid, and in our home better, then the property, and the room is better than the rest of the house, and the most private part of the room is best, doesn't that all mean it is better for women to be modest, and worship privately. Our role and domain is mainly the home. there is nothing wrong with that. we are allowed to go into the field of work, but under certain condtions. That is our jihad. JIHAD is a kurhun (we hate it) just as men would not particularly love to go fight and guns and get killed/maimed/hurt,etc so if the wives of the prophet saws who are one miliion zillion times better than us, are told to stay at home, how should we view ourselves command? Also, There is an incident when the prophet saws asked his daughter what is best for women, and she said not to see men and for men not to see her. He praised her for that and said she is truely that daughter of a prophet. Why do we not aim to be like the sahabeyat? learn your deen it is an obligation. start with the boligations. So many women argue to go to work, and they don't have even one juz of the quran memorized. -"Ofcourse there are boundaries such doing halal work, not getting too close to men, etc. " -so the boundries are mentioned in the fatwas. And there is no need to argue in ba6il. We need female doctors, teachers, etc for females more than ever. And that would be more than desirable islamically. But what ends up happening is not this. just for you information, the aya that you mention refers to the dazzling display of the jaheleya, teh women back then wore lose black big clothing, and a head cover as well. the aya of hijab that came was to tell the  muslim ladies to basically cover the area of neck and part of the upper chest which used to be exposed back then. What do you think we would be asked of with the way the indignitites and immorality with this society nowadays? we do not merely need the experience of joining the work for character building and the experience of dealing with people. As a Muslim woman i believe all indications seem to be that Islam has put us above that hussle and bussle and respected us to be more calm for the home, to raise awareness in chidlren and to pass on to them a certain kind of transparency and innocence. -People say usually oh i am not against the home. but i don't think that a woman's place is in the home only because we have so much to contribute. That is a contradiction to me. working in the home you affect society at large. you are a doctor, a cook, a teacher, a lawyer, an artist, a decorater, an accountant, everything and anything you want to spend you energy on. And it is how we raise those kids that affect society. Some say it is change from within we get in there and we change their minds about it. But keep in mind those adults wiht minds already made up. It is better for us to follow the method of the sahabeyat al3afeefat and change the next generation. it is faster change. and in fact you can do da3wa and all sorts of things that do not entail free mixing as is today.  We are obviously doing something wrong when we look even at the aqsa being occupied we can tell the fruits of faith are not there. (listen to 3amro khalid's lecture about alquds and Zanadani's about iman). If you want to change and contribute to the muslim ummah, we must really focus on the home instead. All else will fall in place insha'Allah if we raise good devoted muslims. That way we are not lusting after dunya and our goal is the akhira, we are compromising in order to contribute in a way that Allah is writing it as hasant and 6a3at and worship. And anyway, staying at home mom, doesn't mean you stay at home as in stirctly no going out at all. THere is so much we NEEd to do with the children and for the house and ourselves and our iman. You can it is possible to be busy and enjoy an islamic life like that. Most women think it is empty, unsatisfying and unrewarding. but that is not true. so get educated and use your talents to what pleases Allah first. Another example i think Allah made us from bent rib, which means we are more emotional, more to lean some way, that is why he made us to be the head fo the inside of the home and asked about our kids infront of Allah. We are better at that job than men and by this nature, it facilitates certain other jobs for the women who do not have kids to do certain fields and not others. This is though my own opinion and i have no daleel from sharee3a (proof) but i think even by the physical structure of bodies, there are differences, not to say it is better or worse, just different. So i hope i made clear a distinction between educaiton which is fardh and work which ghayr mustahab. and yes if you don't have a family, and if you need the money,etc in certain condtions as outlined by the 3ulama' the fuqaha' of this deen we know each of us what is best for us. I probably am publicl muslim enemy number one for women. I find only very few really internalize what information we have and it is ok if you want to do different for now, but i feel so attacked half the time to be told i am wrong, when we have scholars of this opinion. many will follow what a da3eya ( and with all respect to them as well, but it is different from someone who has deeply studied the topic according to sharee3a and fiqh, etc). I guess i should know islam was strange and will be strange, but the attacks on beliefs by other muslims hurts as well. for their sake as well. If you don't want to wear hijab fine but do not say some 3iabadat are not have to, or that they wern't commonly or it is natural for it to be little/lot depending on where you are at. the truth is there we have to just ask people who studied it. I don't claim i know much about this. and i need to find you guys at least some of these ahadeeth i mentioned.
06/26/02 at 15:40:08
amatullah

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
an
06/26/02 at 20:25:58
[slm] sis Amatullah, I would like to apologise if I sound like I'm attacking sis or anyone else. I was just contributing my opinion and may not realise if I offended anyone. Please know that I would never have the intention to hurt anyone especially my sisters. I've just read your post and I learn a lot from it. Please accept my sincerest apology.  :-* I think that it is only natural that people have differences in opinions. That should not be discourage but what we must seek out are the things that we agree upon. (There's a good article on this by Sheikh Salman al-'Awdah  [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=library;action=display;num=1025135557]click here[/url]) I think these are the points of agreements from the discussion: - That a woman hold the noble role of motherhood - That it is a man's job to support his wife and family - That women have the right to education, in fact it's fardh or an obligation for them to seek knowledge - That women don't need to work but can do so if they want to (under certain conditions/boundaries) I think the differences in opinion lie in whether or not it's ok for women to work out of home in a place where they work side-by-side with men. [wlm] :-)
06/27/02 at 02:41:35
an

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
NinthMuharram
06/26/02 at 23:44:30
[slm] Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim I haven't read all the replies, but have been thinking abt this thread for quite sometimes. I'm not gonna post on the right/wrong, social/religious implication since those have been discussed above. Or anything abt boycotting certain companies... this is just to tell ya all what the  achievement of Muslim ladies in M'sia which has never been quite exposed. More on the achivement of Muslim women in M'sia in future post (including a lady <insert word .. i can't remember the job..those ppl that do postmortem on dead ppl> ) Of course I'd have to translate from Malay to English! Anyway..before i start going off the topic... Everytime you buy a computer or processor from Intel that says Made In Malaysia, or hard drive from Seagate (since Seagate also procudes HDD recording head for other companies I'd assume most HDD would use Seagate's product) or the motherboard for your notebook from Jabil Circuit..etc etc etc. Know that most of the women(or men ;)) who assemble those components are women who happen to be Muslims. I can easily say the number of Muslim women working in assembly lines here are more/equal to the non-Muslims. And I do not intend for this post to be politicised or whatever! But as I sat on the  bus, going home, I looked around my sisters and I smiled because of their achievements and no one has actually praised them for that. Oh yeah, we'd be doing so many cover stories on the doctors, engineers, prime minister...nothing wrong with that, but I'd just take this chance to celebrate the success of my fellow sisters here. They prolly don't realise that... I repeat I do not want what I have written above to be turned into a right/wrong discussion. I hope that this won't burden anyone or create arguement among all of us. May ALlah forgive me if that happens. Wassalam p.s: I do not work with any of the company listed above ;)
06/26/02 at 23:46:49
NinthMuharram

Re: is it right for sister's to work?
Halima
06/28/02 at 07:07:50
I am a Muslim woman who has been working for the last sixteen years.  I work in a multicultural organization whereby I rub shoulders with men (not literally).  I work side by side with them without comprising myself, my dignity and my religion.  I know what the limits are and how I should behave.  It is not easy, NOT ALL!!!   Family (children, father, aunt, sisters and others) have depended on me all these years.  The reasons for their dependence is personal.  The point here is that Muslim women can work in any field.  No questions about that.  If one understands the deen and its requirements, then there will be no problem.  Because of what I am and how I conduct myself, the men I work with respect me and my religion. So, sisters and brothers here, all depends on how a Mulsim woman conducts herself.  Of course there will be temptations, discrimination, etc.  but these are not insurmountable obstacles.  And my dad believed in the education of women both in the deen and formal education.   I hope I am not annoying anyone here. Wasalaam. Halima
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