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"HARDBALL" HOST CHALLENGES REP. DELAY
ahmer
06/19/02 at 17:57:57
"HARDBALL" HOST CHALLENGES REP. DELAY ON PALESTINIAN STATE Hardball, MSNBC, 6/18/02

HEADLINE: Congressman Tom DeLay's reaction to Ted Turner's statements about
Israelis being terrorists

HOST: CHRIS MATTHEWS

Today's suicide attack comes the morning after Ted Turner made some
controversial remarks about the Middle East to the London Guardian. Turner
said, quote, "The Palestinians are fighting with human suicide bombers.
That's all they have. The Israelis, they've got one of the most powerful
military machines in the world. The Palestinians have nothinc. So who are
the terrorists? I would make a case that both sides are involved in
terrorism." That's Ted Turner speaking. Congressman Tom DeLay is a Texas
Republican. He's House majority whip. He joins us now.

Mr--Mr. Leader, what do you make of the comments by Ted Turner?

Representative TOM DeLAY (Republican, Majority Whip): Well, I think they're
pretty outrageous. It's--it's pretty sad. Ted Turner's been wrong on a lot
of things, I've got to tell you. And to--to equate Palestinian terrorism
with Israel's attempt to defend itself is a new low. Ted Turner's rantings
show that he has a defect in his moral compass. There--there is no moral
equivalency between terrorism and--and a country trying to defend itself.

MATTHEWS: What do you think the Palestinians should do in this situation?

Rep. DeLAY: The Palestinians should do in this situation?

MATTHEWS: Yeah, what should they do as a people?

Rep. DeLAY: They should--they--they should work with the Israeli government
to--to stop the violence, number one.

MATTHEWS: Right.

Rep. DeLAY: And secondly, help them find the terrorist networks and help
them root out the terrorist networks and should make sure that those
moderate Palestinians can be safe from Arafat. Tho--those po--moderate
Palestinians should rise in leadership so that we will have somebody to
negotiate with. Right now, you cannot negotiate with a terrorist.

MATTHEWS: What would be the point of them negotiating? What would be the
point of them laying down their arms and opposing terrorism? Why would the
Palestinians do that? What would be in it for them?

Rep. DeLAY: Well, it'd be--for them, it would be a--a--a prosperous life in
Israel. Right now...

MATTHEWS: In Israel. You mean, they would all be condemned to living as
part of the Israeli government? They would be under the Israeli government
forever. That would be the goal.

Rep. DeLAY: I think it's pretty--pretty awesome that you think that they
would be condemned to live in the most pos--prosperous nation in the--in
the area. I mean, you--you look at Israel, a democracy. And it's--the--the
prosperity that is generated for their citizens because of freedom to
associate freedom to--to start your own businesses...

MATTHEWS: Right. Would they be able...

Rep. DeLAY: ..freedom--freedom to go to...

MATTHEWS: Would they be citizens of Israel? All the Arabs in the West Bank
and in Gaza now, would they be citizens of Israel under your--your view?

Rep. DeLAY: I--there are citizens of Israel that are Palestinian.

MATTHEWS: No. No. I mean, the people living on the West Bank now, in
the--the disputed territories, they're called. Should they become part of
Israel?

Rep. DeLAY: Certainly, they should become part of Israel?

MATTHEWS: Should they become citizens?

Rep. DeLAY: Cert--certainly, they should become citizens. And--and they
should--they--they should start schools. We should help them with
hospitals. We should more or less impo--impose a--or bring a Marshall Plan
to--to these areas so that they can have the prosperity and hope that
obviously Arafat and the Palestinian Authority is not giving them.

MATTHEWS: Well, the Israelis want a homeland, and they have one, the State
of Israel since 1948, and that's a matter of dispute with some of the Arab
extremists. Do you think the Palestinians should have a state?

Rep. DeLAY: I don't think we should be talking about a Palestinian state
right now.

MATTHEWS: But right now, you've just...

Rep. DeLAY: ...while violence is going on.

MATTHEWS: You've just said that there shouldn't be any Palestinian state
because you said Israel should continue to rule the entire West Bank and
Gaza, and the Arabs should become part of Israel and be citizens of Israel.
So what's the dispute? What's to negotiate?

Rep. DeLAY: There--there is no negotiation right now. We shouldn't be
negotiating with terrorists at all.

MATTHEWS: No, it's not on question of terr--terrorists. Should there be a
Palestinian homeland where the Palestinians rule themselves ever? Ever?

Rep. DeLAY: I--that--that's not what we're talking about here. We're talk...

MATTHEWS: Well, that's what I think is the question.

Rep. DeLAY: No, it is not.

MATTHEWS: There's a dispute in the Middle East between the Palestinians and
the Israelis. The Palestinians are resorting to terrorism. But the question
is: What is the alternative that you're offering them to this terrorist
regime they're under now? What is the promise you can offer them...

Rep. DeLAY: You--you're...

MATTHEWS: ...as an American?

Rep. DeLAY: Well, hold on just a minute. Your premise is all wrong. The
pre--what you have right now is a Palestinian Authority and--and Yasser
Arafat that wants to destroy Israel. It has nothing to do with creating...

MATTHEWS: Right. Well, do you want to destroy the Palestinian hopes...

Rep. DeLAY: May I finish?

MATTHEWS: ...of having a homeland?

Rep. DeLAY: May I finish? May I finish what I'm saying? You have a si--that
isn't the situation at all. The situation is you have a--a free democracy
called Israel.

MATTHEWS: Right.

Rep. DeLAY: And you have Palestinians and the Palestinian Authority trying
to destroy Israel. They don't want to talk about a Palestinian state. They
want to destroy Israel. That is the issue today. It has nothing to do with
giving--creating a new state or--or creating...

MATTHEWS: But how...

Rep. DeLAY: ...new borders or anything like that. What is important right
now...

MATTHEWS: How can there ever be a Palestinian homeland...

Rep. DeLAY: What is important right now is to stop the violence and stop
the killing of innocent citizens in Israel. When you stop the violence and
we can go in and get the terrorist networks and we can root these
terrorists out of there, then you can sit down with people of reason,
Palestinians that wa--that believe that Israel ought to exist and you can
negotiate. No one should be negotiating right now...

MATTHEWS: But...

Rep. DeLAY: ...with terrorists.

MATTHEWS: But how--do you believe a Palestinian state ought to exist
somewhere down the road?

Rep. DeLAY: I--I'm not going to talk about that until the violence stops.
You--because what you're doing...

MATTHEWS: Do you believe that Israel has a right to...

Rep. DeLAY: What you're doing...

MATTHEWS: You--you gave a speech recently where you said to AIPAC, the
Israeli lobby that--that when you fly over Jenin and Samaria which is the
Likud line from the West Bank, that that's all Israeli territory. If that's
the case, then why should we even ask the Palestinians to play ball with us
or to be peaceful and negotiate with us, if you've decided that there's
nothing for them to negotiate, they can't have a homeland. You've said that.

Rep. DeLAY: No, you're...

MATTHEWS: So how does that appeal to moderation?

Rep. DeLAY: Chris, no one is asking the Palestinians to sit down with us.
I'm not asking them to sit down with us. I'm asking them to stop the
violence. I'm--I'm as--I am asking the United States to stand with Israel
to go after terrorist networks. Once you...

MATTHEWS: Would you accept it...

Rep. DeLAY: Once you stop...

MATTHEWS: If you were a Palestinian, Congressman...

Rep. DeLAY: Once you stop the violence...

MATTHEWS: If you were a Pa...

Rep. DeLAY: Once you...

MATTHEWS: If you were a Palestinian, Congressman, would you accept virtual
captivity by another country? Would you live in somebody else's country and
let them rule you?

Rep. DeLAY: If I...

MATTHEWS: Or would you fight?

Rep. DeLAY: If I was a Palestinian, I would not kill innocent citizens...

MATTHEWS: Would you fight?

Rep. DeLAY: ...by driving up next to a bu--a bus like what was done today...

MATTHEWS: Would you fight the Israeli occupation?

Rep. DeLAY: ...and kill children going to school.

MATTHEWS: Would you fight the Israeli occupation?

Rep. DeLAY: I--I would not--I would not kill innocent children.

MATTHEWS: But would you fight the Israeli occupation?

Rep. DeLAY: I wou--again, I'll answer you again. I will not kill innocent
civilians. And I will not support terrorist networks.

MATTHEWS: Right. OK. Well, thank you very much for joining us. Congressman
Tom DeLay, the House majority whip, the congressman from Texas.

CONTACT: (As always, be POLITE.)

Rep. Tom DeLay
2370 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5951
FAX: (202) 225-5241

In Texas:

Rep. Tom DeLay
10701 Corporate Drive, Suite 118
Stafford, Texas 77477
Phone: (281) 240-3700
(800) 759-5748 - Toll-free in area code 409
FAX: (281) 240-2959

E-MAIL: http://majoritywhip.gov/contact.asp


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