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| Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| Red |
| 06/24/02 at 18:20:12 |
| Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat Mon Jun 24, 4:50 PM ET By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer Yahoo http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020624/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_mideast_37 WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush ( news - web sites) urged the Palestinians Monday to replace Yasser Arafat ( news - web sites) with leaders "not compromised by terror" and to adopt democratic reforms that could produce an independent state within three years. "Peace requires a new and different Palestinian leadership so that a Palestinian state can be born," Bush said at the White House. In his long-anticipated speech, Bush said "reform must be more than cosmetic changes or a veiled attempt to preserve the status quo" if the Palestinians are to fulfill their aspirations for a state alongside Israel. Elections should be held by the end of the year for a legislature with normal authority and there also must be a constitution, Bush said as he set stiff conditions for a Palestinians state. "When the Palestinian people have new leaders, new institutions and new security arrangements with their neighbors, the United States of America will support the creation of a Palestinian state, whose borders and certain aspects of its sovereignty will be provisional until resolved as part of a final settlement in the Middle East," Bush said. Senior administration officials said they envision the Palestinians being able to reach provisional statehood within 18 months and full permanent statehood in as soon as three years. "With a determined effort, this state could rise rapidly — as it comes to terms with its neighbors on practical issues such as security," Bush said. Israeli Communications Minister Reuven Rivlin, a close ally of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon ( news - web sites), interpreted Bush's formula as calling for the Palestinians to make the first moves. Rejecting a provisional state, Rivlin said Bush's proposal represented a "vision of bringing the Palestinian people to democracy and reform, and then to negotiate." A senior Palestinian official said only Palestinians can choose their leadership — and already have in Arafat. "President Bush must respect the choice of the Palestinian people," said Saeb Erekat, an Arafat aide. Though his meaning was plain, Bush never spoke Arafat's name. "I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders not compromised by terror," Bush said. "Today, Palestinian authorities are encouraging, not opposing terrorism. This is unacceptable." Israel also has a large stake in the success of a democratic Palestine, he said. "A stable, peaceful Palestinian state is necessary to achieve the security that Israel longs for." Touching delicately on the thorniest issues, the president said Jerusalem's future and the plight of refugees must be addressed. But he offered no prescription. "You have lived too long with fear and funerals," he said. Addressing the Palestinian people, Bush said he understood how they could feel like pawns in the Middle East conflict. "You deserve democracy and the rule of law," he said. "You deserve a life for your children and an end to occupation." The president made his remarks in an afternoon speech in the Rose Garden, where he had announced in April that his administration would try to mediate the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. Bush leaves Tuesday for a meeting in Canada with leaders of the world's other major industrialized democracies. Two administration officials said that the secrecy surrounding Bush's address was driven in part by a fear that announcing the address could trigger a suicide bombing. Secretary of State Colin Powell ( news - web sites), Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice ( news - web sites), the president's national security adviser, stood alongside the president in stifling early summer heat. Bush and his advisers staked out a shady area. Bush also demanded that Israel withdraw to positions it held on the West Bank two years ago and to stop building homes for Jews on the West Bank and in Gaza. Ultimately, he said, Israel should agree to pull all the way back to the lines it held before the 1967 Mideast war. Terms of a provisional state and its international functions were left for negotiations between a reformed Palestinian leadership and Israel. Bush said the United States, European Union ( news - web sites), World Bank ( news - web sites) and International Monetary Fund ( news - web sites) stand ready to help oversee reforms in Palestinian finances. "And the United States, along with our partners in the developed world, will increase our humanitarian assistance to relieve Palestinian suffering," he pledged. Powell already was in consultation with Arab and Palestinian officials as the Bush plan was developed and is likely to return to the region for direct talks, a senior administration official said. Bush will discuss his initiative with leaders of industrialized democracies at a G-8 meeting this week. Meanwhile, with intense conflict in the Middle East, the idea of a peace conference is being put on hold, another senior official said on condition of anonymity. In the meantime, the administration renewed its support for Israel's self-defense, even as Israeli tanks encircled Arafat's badly damaged headquarters in Ramallah, on the West Bank, and Israel went on the offensive against Hamas militants in Gaza. "Israel has a right to defend itself," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said. He also repeated the standard admonition that "everybody has to be aware of the consequences of their actions." |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| BroHanif |
| 06/24/02 at 19:27:57 |
| Salaams, Not only does the US bomb countries that don't support them but they also ask leaders of other countries to be removed. Yet they can deal quite comfortably with butchers like Sharon who is a clear criminal. It's disgusting to hear Mr Bush speak, openly he hates the Palestinians. They did the same in Afghanistan and screwed it up and now they dictate how others should run their country. Who would have thought eh ???. May Allah save us from such ruin and humiliation. Hanif |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| Red |
| 06/24/02 at 19:46:42 |
| [slm], What really bugs me is that no government will ever *dare* say Sharon or the Israeli government are "compromised by terror". It really hurts when you come to a realization that some things that people do, like the united states ignorance and hypocrisy towards the Palestinians real heart of conflict, will never change. wasalam, red |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| yunus |
| 06/24/02 at 21:07:23 |
| the funny thing is when Bush came into power he said that his administration would not be involved in "nation building". Also Mr Bush in is war on terrorism needs to look in the mirror this government and our allie Israel are the biggest terrorists in the world. WE possess more weapons of mass destruction then any other country. WE spend more money on war and destruction then any other country (more then entire european uniono comibined) WE as the people need to do the world a favor and ask for the removal of Mr. Bush and his terroristic administration (both home and abroad). We need to speak a true word in the presence of his tyranny |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| sofia |
| 06/24/02 at 22:50:57 |
| Israel has the "right to defend" itself, and no one else around it, from it, it seems. Nutty. We're living in dajjalic-times, people. Actually, this may be one of the few times *ever* that I can agree with this man's foreign policy (hey, my family voted Green Party...). Ok, just this one viewpoint, of replacing Arafat. Even stranger is that I actually did catch a solid 1/2 hour of Sunday afternoon "table talk" news shows on NBC and CBS this wkd. Anyone else catch it? There was Representative (or Congressmen, Senate, whatever his position is) J. Kerry on one channel and Joseph Lieberman on the other, both speaking about the current Israel/Palestine situation. Lieberman was much more realistic and objective than Kerry, by a long shot. He argued that a "provisional" Palestinian state is not enough, it's either a state or not, so build a permanent state. He also mentioned (politely, but more directly than Bush) that Arafat, for the best interest of Palestine, should step down and be replaced by someone more capable and representative of the Palestinian people. As long as a proxy doesn't decide who his replacement is (and if my opinion mattered here), there should be a replacement that can, insha'Allah, act in the best interest of the people. Even if Arafat *were* an effectual leader or if he *were* anywhere close to "at fault" for the Palestinian crisis, at least replacing him would be one less excuse for the nay-sayers. Don't forget, there was a small pocket of Arabs/Muslims who saw a silver lining to the black cloud that is Ariel Sharon after he was elected PM of Israel. And that was: hey, if he's elected, then the world will see what kind of things he will do; he can't possibly get away with it for too long (i.e., continue his legacy as the "butcher"). Not sure if the world "got it" yet, b/c he's still butchering. Actually, the world gets it, but the US, not yet. Slowly, it will realize, insha'Allah. But it's all just a game to these folks. And Allah is the best of Planners. Allahu'alim, may Allah guide and protect us all, aameen. |
| NS |
| 06/24/02 at 23:18:01 |
| sofia |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| yunus |
| 06/25/02 at 00:41:05 |
| Thats good for your family to vote Green. They are probably the only political party that can be trusted. The Democrats and Republican are war mongers and only look out for the interests of the Corporations and special interst groups. Muslim brothers and sisters need to get behind this pary. Both democrats and republicans a hyporcites. Look how Bush betrayed our vote if it was for us we would not have carried florida (which he did anyway but i guess no one cares any more) alos i bleive we gave him Michigan. Besides Nader is an Arab (his family is from Lebanon) |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| mwishka |
| 06/25/02 at 09:35:18 |
| ok, my quick comments about this whole thing: 1. "i call on the palestinians to elect new leaders not compromised by terror". you don't have to play into what bush may be saying behind the words he's actually saying. so let the palestinians elect some "new" leaders - every time there's an election anywhere "some" new leaders are elected. "not compromised by terror" we can take as meaning not those who might be inclined to accept harmful israeli conditions for palestinian life. 2. it's pretty obvious, for anyone who's playing this political word game - and none of us have to play it - that if sharon were removed, the terror would end. now that is NOT a simple child's statement of "sharon is a bad man. arafat is a good man." (which i think people here know without me even saying), but just a point about thinking simplistically: you want to identify - because you play games - one single thing that will end the most violence over there: remove the war criminal and extradite him to his waiting trial. arafat is not under indictment anywhere, so, duh...um which one should go? 3.the stupidest part of all of this is that israel is pretending, as it does about everything, that "oh, the US said it should go like this, with arafat out first (which is not what the US said, anyway) so, hey, we israelis are so open to the influence of the US and never fail to abide by their wishes, that we will have to sit here, with our arms folded and our toes tapping, like bumps on a log (another duh....this was dull and heavy and leaden and i dislike using duhs anyway) until the palestinians get rid of arafat. we are such good citizens in the world that we wouldn't dream of doing anything more ---um um i mean less, yes less, i meant less...." 4. on BBC last night a palestinian cabinet minister made the best point about this that i've heard anyone make. (i can't remember the spelling of his name at the moment so i will just leave it out - only one cup of coffee so far, not up to maximum brain function) he said that what president bush is asking of the palestinians is to make internal changes within their institutions. of the israelis he's asking that they cease actions external to themselves and israel, that they cease their illegal actions against another nation and its people, that they cease their occupation of, and further encroachment into, another nation. mwishka |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| jaihoon |
| 06/25/02 at 12:13:32 |
| :( The Muslim masses are doing tawaf of the Squared Black House while the muslim leaders are doing around the oval white house... Won't the Zionists leave behind anything for the Anti-Christ to destroy? Where is any justice in this world? - Jaihoon >:( |
| 06/25/02 at 12:14:55 |
| jaihoon |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| Red |
| 06/25/02 at 14:51:52 |
| [slm], I guess being young, the Palestinian crisis, like the Chechnyan one, is so frustrasting. But to my parents and older folks this has been going on for ever, so i wonder will this go on forever, does it matter if Arafat steps down or Sharon somehow magically disappears? Maybe none of this will ever stop no matter the leaders. I know this is a test from Allah subnah tallah but it seems like the Palestinian have been doing dua forever and soooo many muslims have too done dua, and the number of people muslim and non-muslim doing everything we can but to only be shut down over and over again. Oh well, Allah knows best. wasalam, red |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| Sparrow |
| 06/25/02 at 20:04:39 |
| Does anyone (here, I mean, not in politics) consider Arafat to be, or have been, an effective leader at any point in his reign? Sparrow |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| salik |
| 06/25/02 at 22:17:10 |
| [quote author=Sparrow link=board=ummah;num=1024957212;start=0#9 date=06/25/02 at 20:04:39]Does anyone (here, I mean, not in politics) consider Arafat to be, or have been, an effective leader at any point in his reign? Sparrow[/quote] I had recently seen some clips of young bouncy arafat delivering speach at UN i guess some time in 70's he looked really charming then. |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| mwishka |
| 06/25/02 at 22:46:12 |
| sis sparrow, (live long and prosper!) i'm going to answer with a probably unpopular opinion. first, for me to discuss this we have to toss aside the word "effective", because it now has no meaning in this context, having been abused into oblivion by people who like to abuse words. second, reign doesn't apply. he used to be a military leader and is now an elected governing president, neither of which involve a reign. if ever asked about yasir arafat's history as a leader of the palestinian people, the first thing i say is that, unlike many other leaders and politicians, he has dedicated his entire adult life to the struggle to free palestine from israeli rule. now, he's not palestinian, which is only important to me in that i would like to see a palestinian eventually lead the re-emerged nation, as an emphasis on its palestinian identity, but it's not important in measuring the extent of his efforts. if you think at all like i do, the next word to pop into your mind will be "ché". and he was not alone in this kind of venture to another land to fight for freedom there. ok, i'm kind of a softie for freedom fighters, and president arafat has a soft spot in my heart, based on his unswerving dedication and his early astuteness in recognizing the need for organized and armed effort against an organized and armed invading and occupying force. (the one that turned out to be some combination of blood-and-life-sucking monster with a chimeric and nearly indestructible israeli-american nature and the apparent self-replenishing resources of the borg.) i believe he fell into the trap so many people fall into if they achieve success or fame, especially early in life: he began to feed off the resources of his "work", without an eye to the future or those around him or the limits of those resources in real terms. i don't know enough of the real details of the his persknal history as the years went by. (i can tell you that i nearly failed a physics exam when his helicopter was missing in the desert -- i really couldn't concentrate, and feared that if, at that time, he were lost, the peace process would just fall apart. and there were a lot fo people hoping he WAS lost, and that that stupid idea of peace could be forgotten.. uh, but that's my history, not his...oops...) as for now, i think that palestine, even without recognition of its national sovereignty, or its own boundaries, and with most of its people in refuge elsewhere, has been dragged by TV news cameras into a national mentality that it might not have developed in the same way had the media not been involved. and, this mentality is kind of like the mentality of a lot of countries, say....america for one: "we" have an elected leader, and he's ours, and we have faith in him, and we're his people. now i do think the palestinians are way more politically savvy than americans, and i think they have a greater to capacity to distinguish between a sham leader and a real one. with that in mind, i'd say that they as a people have more respect for arafat as a long-lived hero of their people than they do necessarily as their best leader for right now. but i'm emphasizing that they do have some respect for him, which is not something you can even say generally of americans as far as their leaders are concerned, because respect doesn't enter into the picture - that picture is only a collage of small individual units of self-aggrandizement, what your "leader" has done for you personally --- hard to fathom, but true. so, that was the short answer.. :D want to hear the long one? :D no, really, any question of "evaluating" pres. arafat is not about effectiveness. who could be effective against the monster from planet zero?? pres. arafat, as does any president, has all the advisers he needs to do whatever he can manage to do, given the context of his administration, so i don't think "effective" is relevant as a question. to me, the question is "do the palestinians want him as their leader right now?" i think the answer to that is yes. this is a country that has been being warred upon for more than a generation, and there are many younger capable people around to take over the governing roles when the nation is re-established and has a country to run, and is not just involved in trying to survive and seeking outside assistance and having to negotiate for basic human rights. and i am curious to hear other responses..... mwishka |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| jaihoon |
| 06/26/02 at 00:20:27 |
| [slm] Basically i am a pacifist. Yet, I lost my admiration fo the leader when he butchered the freedom cause at the negotiation table. It is vain to think that the palestininans and jews can live in peace relying on a formula devised at Camp david or Oslo or Geneva. What I dont understand the logic how stupid of the arab leaders when they UNCLE SAM to a 'play a grater role in mideast peace'. What he has been playing, everyone knows. Why in the world would uncle sam restrict israel when it supplies billions of dollars in millitary aid to the zionist state. Israel's powerful existence is a must for US control over the region. Then why depend on it? Both jewish and palestininan leadership shuld undergo a change. The people shuld 'play the role'. Dont expect any 'bindas' from the leaders who pay piligrimage to Unsle sam's shrine. |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| mwishka |
| 06/26/02 at 09:31:08 |
| bro jaihoon, as far as i can tell, the reason anyone keeps wanting the US to be involved in the process is that as long as they're occupied in name in that way, they can't pretend to be COMPLETELY - and i emphasize that - unaware of what's going on over there. it's kind of like when the rolling stones chose to have hells' angels as security at their altamont concert --- ooooo have i drifted into twilight zone where no one here knows WHAT i'm referring to, or what the connection is?? eh oh maybe?.... as for all these stupid negotiations anyway, ?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is all i can say... is this an idiot planet, just masquerading as a planet with intelligent life forms? are their no functional minds left? is it an alternate existence in a matrix of our choosing? how brainwashed and complacent can we really let ourselves be? i absolutely agree that it is the PEOPLE who are a country, aa well as the ummah. the leaders are just the way each group gets to connect into the larger games going on. oh, and the only reason the US would restrict in any way - or, even pretend to restrict heh heh heh - their buddies the israelis is because the US does have to maintain its trade interactions with the countries who at this point are openly criticising not only israel but the US. but how empty can words be??? why are these other countries, many of whom are much more internationally aware than the US has ever been or ever wants to be, just sitting on their hands?? people get slaughtered constantly, and they SIT watching?? ok, i know many people say but the palestinians blah blah blah and the ummah blah blah blah but there are lots of governments who have had the good sense to condemn what's going on, and apparently they are just so, um "knowledgable" about the mindless, swivelling head of the US as it stalks and controls and threatens whereever it wants to around the world that they KNOW they could be next on the list, of having very "clean" actions taken against them and their people.... um, i don't agree with or like any of these goings-on, it's just the way i see what seems to be (not) happening.... uh oh....gotta get out of here. mwishka |
| NS |
| 06/26/02 at 09:39:17 |
| mwishka |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| Red |
| 06/26/02 at 11:24:53 |
| [slm], Is Arafat an effective leader? I don't know, but i much in the agreement with you mwishka, its really not a question of "effective" leader, to me at least. The guy is stuck between three people in his face the US, Israel and the Palestinans telling him what they want, its hard. What to ya do? It won't EVER matter to me the leader because you have to negotiate with people, who have pretty much had their way with everything (Israel and US). i took a US foregin policy class this year, and i can't think of one country the US has not stuck their head in (Guatemala, Korea, Vietnam, etc). Its amazing how much support they give to Israel, yet at least the last time i checked (please correct me) the second country they give the most money to is Egypt and the first Israel! go figure ??? wasalam, red |
| Re: Bush Calls for Removal of Arafat |
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| Muneerah134 |
| 06/27/02 at 10:36:11 |
| [slm] I wondered, how can you call for "free" elections when, by supporting Israel in the fullest sense of the word, you have directly destroyed the infrastructure of a people? (In our name I might add.) When the voters in question are under house arrest? ??? If the Palestinian people called for them I would be all for it. Maybe someone could educate me on what our brothers and sisters feel about their leadership. We almost never hear what they are thinking from our media (not that we expect to.) Maybe we should hold free elections here in this country. ;) I am still a child of the 60s and 70s. I have seen some of the games our government has played and what I have seen doesn't even scratch the surface. I don't know, only Allah knows best. May He protect us all. :-)Muneerah |
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