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Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.

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Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.
Halima
06/26/02 at 04:55:48
Asalaam Aleykum,

In my several visits to the Madina Community and the different subjects aired/written by sisters and brothers, I find different definitions and spellings of words or phrases from the Q'uraan.  I understand this to be the reason for our diversity (different parts of the world, some predominantly Muslims, some more Muslims and some less Muslims).

Hence we adjust depending on where we are, environment, culture and way of life not withstanding.  Another case is the way the Q'uraan is taught in different Muslim communities around the world.  More often in Madarasas, phe Q'uraan is more a recital of the scriptures of the Holy Q'uraan rather than understanding the surah, the ayah and message in each verse.  As a result, most children finish the Q'uraan and can recite it without missing a beat.  But Arabic is not learned as a language to enable the kids understand the Q'uraan fully.

So, in trying to write some words in the latin alphabet for instance, here I will write like this for the following:  Subhana Wataala; Alhamdu Lillahi; Insha-Allah; Jizakall Khayr, Salallahu Aleyhii Wasalaam; Asalaam Aleykum; Duniya; Raliyaanhu; etc.  Another Muslim brother or sister in another part of the world will mean the same things but write them a little differently or totally different.  

Now, to the various message board admistrators and/or moderators: how would you uniformize these?  Is it possible?  Does it really matter?  Do we assume that whichever way ones writes is okay so long as the meaning is understood?

Another thing, are Madarasas in Europe, Asia and America teaching both children and adults the Q'uraan as well as Arabic to help them understand and grasp the meaning from the start?  Are any of the Retreats attended by some Madina Community Members addressing this?

The word "Reverts" confuses me when a non-Muslim converts to Islam.  Why do we say "revert(s)" rather than "convert(s)" .  I undestand anybody joining another religion as being a convert.  Anyone leaving the new religion to go back to his/her former religion as being a revert.  Please clarify.

Also heard that once you are Muslim and you leave Islam, you can not revert to it.  Is this true?  Knowledgeable sisters and brothers, please respond.  I am a born Muslim but it does not necessarily mean that I know all.  And I am not afraid or embarassed to ask here.

Shukran.

Halima
Re: Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.
Umm-Ahmad
06/26/02 at 05:15:48
 [slm]

I cannot answer anything about the moderators trying to unify the way we spell the various Aarbic terms.  

Just wanted to make a point about the whole convert/revert question:  Sis Halima, every human being is born in submission to Allah s.w.t, we are ALL born MUSLIM.  It is only our parents and later the environment etc that makes us something else, jewish, Christian, Athiest etc.

Thus when we rediscover Islam, we are said to REVERT back to our original constitution, to pur original state of submission.  I hope that makes some sense, inshaAllah.

(As you see I write InshaAllah as one word, others write Insha' Allah or inshallah, some turkish sisters write InsyaAllah i think, but we all know what we are talking about:) )

Salaam
Umm Ahmad
Re: Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.
Halima
06/26/02 at 07:00:01
Shukran, Brother Ahmad,

You have given me something to ponder some more about the revert/convert issue.

I hope somebody will give me some insight to the Madarasas across Europe, Asia and America.

Wasalaam.

Halima

Re: Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.
Shahida
06/26/02 at 07:25:25
[slm]

Dear sis Halima...I can help to answer the question about the Madrassahs (Madaaris) in various parts of the world that I have either lived in or visited...

Righto, first things first: I am in South Africa at the moment.  The Islamic Madrassah here usually operates after the normal school times, in the afternoon(3-5pm), and in some cases also on Saturday(morning).  Children are taught many subjects, depending on where you go, in which community, different languages will also be taught, for example Urdu.  Children are taught mostly to read and write Arabic, but are never really equipped with skills to be able to speak or understand the Quraan without the translation.  Emphasis is placed on Tajweed and fluency in recital, not on understanding unfortunately! :(

My friends also say that the little Arabic they did learn, they have forgotten, except for the usual "babun=door" type thing they drum into kids here.  As for the Urdu some are lucky enough to learn, the problem with that is that sometimes Arabic is taught through the medium of Urdu, and after you graduate from Madressah, you never have contact with that much Urdu anymore, so the Arabic is lost as well.  Does that make sense?

In Germany I know of a few weekend Madressah programmes, where they have Arab teachers, and children and reverts are taught first to read then understand.  At least they make an effort to teach the Arabic language so that people will understand at least a bit of the Quraan on their own.  I am not the expert on those Madressahs though, maybe sister Hayal can help?  I think the system and the Arabic learning issue is different if the school/mosque is run by non-Arabs, like Turkish or Bosnian etc...

My main experience of Madressahs in other parts of the non-Muslim world is that they DO NOT TEACH TO UNDERSTAND, but merely lay the main fcus on being able to read the Quraan in Arabic, and learn some of the Surahs of by heart, because you will need that for Salah etc.  There are however specialist Islamic schools, where people are taught Arabic, but this is usually, in my experience, not an extra-school, but rather a replacement for "normal" school...children will learn FusHa Arabic, learn Fiqh, learn Islamic law, everything, but they will not have a very good knowledge of English or Math, or anything else seen as "western" knowledge.  There's a whole other discussion in that last sentence, which I wil leave for now.

This is just my personal experience.  I hope others have something more positive to contribute inshaAllah.

BTW, UmmAhmad is a sister :-), Umm Ahmad means that she is the mother of Ahmad, her real name is Rihab.

Take care,
Wasalam
Shahida :-)
Re: Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.
mwishka
06/26/02 at 16:28:48
sis halima,

as someone who loves languages as much for their diversity as for the amusing ways they are all the same, i absolutely LOVE seeing things here spelled in as many different ways as people generally use them in their lives.  even the, um, sloppy "shorthand" styles.  

it's like a glimpse around the world, and reminds me not to fall into patterns of too many assumptions - like oh, she's muslim, she'll be the same in all ways as that other muslim woman i know though she's from a country on the opposite side of the planet.  the important things WILL be the same, but the things that are less important are often the things that are most interesting, and can be quite educational.

so i'd like to see people continue to use their own natural expressions, just keeping in mind that some of us really have to have things translated..

mwishka
Re: Definitions of Words, Prases, Sentences, etc.
Halima
06/28/02 at 03:54:12
Dear Sis Shahida,

Many thanks for taking the time to respond in detail and sharing your experience for places you have been.  

You know, what you have described is exactly what goes on here.  I am based in Nairobi, Kenya.  Here, I know of three ways the Q'uraan is taught (there could be more as the Q'uraan is now translated in different languages).  One is in Arabic but using the Swahili (or Kiswahili) language meaning that although the deen is taught in its Arabic text, the accent is Swahili.  The second is Somali, again the deen is taught in its Arabic text but the accent is Somali and the third is Arabic meaning that the deen is taught in Arabic and so is the accent.  The third is mainly practiced at the coastal area of Kenya where the population has Arabic influence from the Arab trade along the East African Coast (where the Swahili or Kiswahili language was born).

In all three cases, the Q'uraan is memorized, there is the tajwid too and translation is in either Somali or Swahili for those Madarasas accordingly.  So, Arabic as a language is not taught at Madarasas here.  Memorization helps in everything to do with tha deen, not only the Salat (or Salah).   Any kid here will read the Q'uraan to you and you will be thoroughly impressed.

For those children who attend school, madarasa is attended after school for one hour or two and on Saturdays and Sundays, madarasa is fully attended (meaning whole day).  My children do this so are all kids here.  They are taught salat in madarasa as earlyas seven year olds and fasting also at the same age.  

Thank you for pointing out that Umm Ahmad as a Sis.  You know, it is not easy to tell and I am glad to know that Umm means Mum in Arabic.  I am one of the those who do not know Arabic.   With you, I know that you are a Sis because many sisters around here are called Shadida too.

Many thanks Sis Shahida and may Allah Bless YOU!

And Dear Sis mwishka,

I agree with you with the fun in the different spellings.  You get a glimpse of the our diversity this way, as you say.  Yeah, assumptions can be embarassing and sometimes painful.  More often that not, you put your foot in your mouth, as the saying goes.

May Allah bless you too.

Best regards.

Halima


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