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slavery
saadia
06/27/02 at 14:31:11
[slm] everyone,

I have a q....I read something rather disturbing online,

[quote]while the British Empire was abolishing slavery under pressure from British Christians like David Livingstone and William Wilberforce, Arab Muslims were enslaving Africans (i.e. following the promise by Allah concerning the (captives) that your right hand possesses from Sura Nisaa, 4:3). [/quote]

The person who wrote this tried backing up their theory w/an article by Karen Davies which was even more disturbing..her name seems very familiar to me and I can't place her, can anyone help me w/something to shoot back at them? I'm at work so I can't do the research but maybe there's something on the board abt this topic already???

[wlm]
Re: slavery
AbdulJalil
06/27/02 at 17:44:03
assalamu alaikum
     



Christians who bash Islam either don’t know or ignore their own“biblical” text.


Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

 Exodus 21:7-8  allows the selling of daughters into slavery "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands and thoust has taken them captive, and seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and have a desire unto her, that though would have her to be thy wife, then though shalt bring her home to thine house . . . and after that you may go into her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. But if though have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go".


Numbers, Chapter 31, verses 17 and 18:". . . kill every woman who has known man by lying with him,but all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."




New Testament

1 Peter 2:18 "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are HARSH."

Colossians 3:22 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in EVERYTHING; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."








Also,Verses from Glorious Qur'an that call for freeing slaves

http://users.erols.com/zenithco/slavesq.htm

.

06/27/02 at 18:05:35
AbdulJalil
Re: slavery
Soulman
06/27/02 at 17:59:48
[wlm]

I have seen this question addressed many times. There is some truth in there statement and some untruth as well. I think the best answer should include...

A slave is interpreted as a person who works for no cash, has no rights and whose human rights are abused. Islam has completely forbidden this. What it has permitted is that one person work for another within a contractual agreement defined within a legal framework. Both parties are equally bound to the agreement, otherwise it becomes null and void. Most people would not consider this slavery. Anyway, we do use the word "slavery" and indeed all muslims are slaves...of Allah.

All the empires (including Christian) up until the Prophet (pbuh) used slaves. Most specifically they had slave casts (subcultures) where slaves could not leave generation after generation. Their children would become slaves as well they were treated pitifully, suffered brutal treatment and psychological humiliation.

Islam changed this in the following ways...sharia recognises the rights of a slave to food and clothing. He/she can marry his mistress or master and thereby secure release. He/she can only be owned under legal contract. This has an appointed term. Breach of contract by either party is addressed in sharia court. In many cases, a slave could fix his own salary. A slave could not be beaten or hit on the face by sharia law if this occurs he/she can ask the court for his freedom on the basis of abuse. Slaves were able to buy their own freedom. Any slave that says "La ilaha illa Llah" is immediately released, unless he willfuly opts to remain with his master.

Islam admits its "slaves" to all positions in society, including Khalifa! THe Prophet upon whom be peace said we must obey the Khalifa EVEN IF HE IS A SLAVE provided he governs by Quran and sunna! We are the only nation ever to have been governed by its slaves - the Mamlukes!

When Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, entered Al-Quds he was wearing rags and was barefoot. He was leading a horse. On the horse rode his slave, and he was better dressed than Umar himself. The Christians were terrified because they did not know who to offer their surrender to. Muslims like Abu BAkr used to buy and release slaves whenever they had the opportunity. By permitting slavery muslims were able to buy and free millions of slaves over the ages. The empires of the time were shaken to their foundations by this. Their slaves heard about islam and often refused to fight against the muslims and also wanted to embrace islam, because they knew that the shahada would release them from bondage. This was one reason for the rapid rconquests made by muslim armies.

The Christians ran slaves for 1800 years, so they cannot say that christianity abolished slavery, the British did...after they no longer required slaves having developed more sophisticated industries.

We have millions of blacks living in the americas (N.America and S.America) as witness to 500 years of Christian assault on african peoples. So if muslims were driving slaves into the Ottoman empire why do we have no major black communities living in squalour in the middle east? After 500 hundred years of Ottoman rule how many blacks do we have living in Turkey, Syria, Palestine the heart of the Ottoman Empire? Sure! They found corrupt muslims happy to drive slaves at a price, but the market was principally for the white man. The morrocons raided muslim communities in west africa and sacked their towns many times in the 1700s, but they were armed by whites and their slaves were all sold to the whites, so what exactly is their point? In fact one of the great African muftis, Uthman Dan Fodio, waged jihad against Morrocon slavers, and he rooted his jihad inside sharia. Has a Pope EVER fought a crusade against slavery? I think not.

Ask this christian whether he/she considers South Africa a good example of a christian country. Because the Nationalist Party which condoned brutality against blacks was christian, and its leader P W Botha a christian protestant, and a devout one too.

Ask this christian how many black disciples Jesus had, because Muhammad upon whom be peace had many.

Ask this christian how many of Jesus disciples were slaves, beacause many of Muhammads companions were slaves.

Ask this Christian whether they have considered embracing islam.

[wlm]  
Re: slavery
AbdulJalil
06/27/02 at 18:06:18
assalamu alaikum

extract from The Position of Slavery in Islam
by Abul Ala Mawdudi

Appendix A Excerpted from "Human Rights in Islam" by 'Allamah Abu Al-'A'la Mawdudi. Chapter 3, subsection 5 - Al Tawhid Journal, vol. IV. No. 3 Rajab-Ramadan 1407. 5.

Individual's Right to Freedom:

Islam has clearly and categorically forbidden the primitive practice of capturing a free man, to make him a slave or to sell him into slavery. On this point the clear and unequivocal words of the Prophet are as follows:

"There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgement. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money" (al-Bukhari and Ibn Majjah).

The words of this Tradition of the Prophet are also general, they have not been qualified or made applicable to a particular nation, race, country or followers of a particular religion. The Europeans take great pride in claiming that they abolished slavery from the world, though they had the decency to do so only in the middle of the last century. Before this, these Western powers had been raiding Africa on a very large scale, capturing their free men, putting them in bondage and transporting them to their new colonies. The treatment which they have meted out to these unfortunate people has been worse than the treatment given to animals. The books written by the Western people themselves bear testimony to this fact.



06/27/02 at 18:11:55
AbdulJalil
Re: slavery
Soulman
06/27/02 at 18:13:32
Mashalla Abdu Jalil - we seemed to have cleaned up this one! []

[wlm]
Re: slavery
saadia
06/28/02 at 08:47:20
[slm] !

Mash'Allah you guys killed it! Jazak Allahu Khairan for your replies!!!

[wlm]

Re: slavery
ltcorpest2
06/28/02 at 16:18:53

New Testament

1 Peter 2:18 "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are HARSH."  

Colossians 3:22 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in EVERYTHING; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."  

since i am going on vacation I do not have time to respond in depth, but you may want to look into the context in which this was written,  just like anyone pulling out a verse here or there in the Koran, to prove a point.  This is not a doctrine on slavery, but on how slaves, and if you look at the totality of verses surrounding it it is how husbands, wives, childern, citizens and slaves are to respect authority, even though it may not be just authority.



here is a more complete reading of 1 Peter
1 Peter 2

Honor Authority

13   (36) Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14   or to governors as sent by him (37) for the punishment of evildoers and the (38) praise of those who do right.
15   For (39) such is the will of God that by doing right you may (40) silence the ignorance of foolish men.
16   Act as (41) free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as (42) bondslaves of God.
17   (43) Honor all people, (44) love the brotherhood, (45) fear God, (46) honor the king.
18   (47) Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and (48) gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.
19   For this finds favor, if for the sake of (49) conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
20   For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if (50) when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

21   For (51) you have been called for this purpose, (52) since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you (53) an example for you to follow in His steps,
22   WHO (54) COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
23   and while being (55) reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24   and He Himself (56) bore our sins in His body on the (57) cross, so that we (58) might die to sin and live to righteousness; for (59) by His wounds you were (60) healed.





Re: slavery
ltcorpest2
06/28/02 at 16:23:22
oh, and by the way,  i hope I am not offending anyone by quoting the Bible, but it was in response to the earlier post.  As a Christian on a Muslim website i try not to do that since i am here as kinda of a guest, and if the administration wants to delete the last post i understand.
Re: slavery
ltcorpest2
06/28/02 at 16:27:03
although, i did make it all the way to medina muslim
Re: slavery
sofia
06/29/02 at 10:19:49
Masha'Allah, good info to have as a reference. There were also a lot of other threads on "slavery" here, maybe someone can put those links up, insha'Allah.

Don't have much time, but did want to say that Mike's concerns on taking certain biblical texts out of context (or not in any context) are valid.

The verses used by the brothers from the bible should be meant to convey that very point; we can't just pull out partial text and consider ourselves experts on the exegeses of these verses. Because if that were true, we can do the same to any other text. And I think the brother's comments on Jesus and Muhammad (may peace be upon them; re: their companions, in particular), were meant to demonstrate the differences between how Christians and Muslims have held onto/let go of certain teachings throughout the centuries (Jesus likely had many companions/followers who were slaves). Islam teaches that Jesus was a noble prophet, and the prophets did not carry out or teach inequity or injustice.


NS
06/29/02 at 10:30:15
sofia
Re: slavery
Dawn
06/29/02 at 11:29:39
[quote author=Soulman link=board=madrasa;num=1025202671;start=0#2 date=06/27/02 at 17:59:48]
Ask this christian how many of Jesus disciples were slaves, beacause many of Muhammads companions were slaves.
[/quote] For what it may be worth, first century Christianity, outside of what was then Judea, was considered by its contemporaries to be a religion of slaves, the lower class, the poor, and women.  It took a while for it to work its way up the status ladder.
Re: slavery
ltcorpest2
06/29/02 at 12:00:55
Ask this christian how many of Jesus disciples were slaves, beacause many of Muhammads companions were slaves.

that is an interesting take,  soulman,  i thought that muslims considered Jesus to be a prophet.  but dawn is corrrect,  if you look at who he hung around with, fisherman, tax collectors and a prostitute,  not exactly the elites of society.
Re: slavery
Soulman
06/29/02 at 14:26:24
I never ask straight questions. ;D
But before you begin asking why I have asked the question; why not answer it?  

Christian books seem to contain many stories about Isa ibn Miriam [saw], so I am asking whether, according to your BOOKS any of his 12 disciples were slaves? There is an IMMENSE difference between a slave and a prostitute and a fisherman, you must admit!  ::)

If you have the time, then there are still the following seperate questions concerning christianity and slavery which were raised earlier, and a christian perspective would be great.

;-)

[center] ______________________[/center]

[glow=red,2,300]1>[/glow] Why were slaves driven by christian religious men for centuries under the auspices of the catholic church in Africa and S.America and protestant churches in N.America and S.Africa. I realise this was NOT taught by Isa 'alaihi salaam, but many extremely knowledgeable christians have seen fit to use the BOOKS otherwise: Pope Pious in 1450 passed a papal bull which saw the negro peoples as animals "fit only to be driven in subservient bondage". While the dutch reformed church in S.Africa passed a ruling in 1880 that black peoples had "no part in God's divine plan for humanity" and need not be afforded basic human rights.

[center] ??? ??? ??? ??? ???[/center]

[glow=red,2,300]2>[/glow] Treatment of slaves is mentioned in the Quran on many occasions. There are several references to slaves in christian books, not all are so kind: deuteronomy, leviticus and new testament references have not been fully addressed. I would also be grateful if you could also find verses protecting the rights of slaves as are found in the Quran. :)

[center] ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? [/center]

[glow=red,2,300]3>[/glow] Was there ever a crusade by early christians against slave driving nations? And if so, was it rooted in the biblical law? As in the case of the Marmlukes and the Jihad of Uthman dan Fodio which were all firmly based on sharia.

[center] ??? ??? ??? ??? ???[/center]

[glow=red,2,300]4>[/glow] As a final question, could one consider the violent imperial monopolisation of global resources over the last 200 years and there continued control of capital markets through the IMF and world bank as a new and subversive form of slavery?   And if so should we not oppose it?

[center]??? ??? ??? ??? ???[/center]

Lastly, I hope you do not see what I have written as an attack on your religion. I am also happy that some christians have broken into jannah.
Inshallah there will be many in heaven as well.  ;)

All they have to do is to believe in not worshipping other than Allah and that Muhammad is his Prophet and that Jesus is his Prophet.

Easy!

Peace be with you,

S.
06/29/02 at 16:10:53
Soulman
Re: slavery
Anonymous
07/03/02 at 12:56:31
Assalaamu alaikum,

 Without disputing the larger point, I don't see that the hadith quoted by Br.AbdulJalil
says all that he is
claiming for it. It does not say that a person can't enslave a free man and then keep
that slave for himself,
nor does it say anything about selling or keeping people who are already slaves. Sure,
it's a step in the right
direction-- but that one hadith is far from an abolition of slavery. Or am I
misunderstanding?

                                             Jazakum allahu khairan for your insights
into this matter
WaRe: slavery
Soulman
07/03/02 at 20:51:38
[wlm]

Basically, his hadith points out that a person cannot enslave a free person.
Combine this with slave's children being recognised as being free individuals by sharia.

Result=abolishion of slavery within 1 generation.

Confounding factors...muslims are permitted to buy slaves from other nations, and so new slaves do enter the system. BUt their children will be freemen.

Muslims are also permitted to take prisoners of war into slavery, depending on terms of surrender. But this should be understood in the light of laws of jihad, which only allows war in order to defend from attack.

Last, and most importantly...slaves are only kept under a contract, which ensures their fair treatment. They can also "buy out" of the contract. So really this is not slavery, but a means of employment in the pre-industrial era. What today you call a builder or a garbage-collector or domestic, who are all working in difficult jobs under contractual agreements, make very little money and have to pay food, rent, child support etc... in islamic nations these tasks would have been carried out by slaves, also under contract, except their housing, food and childcare would all be covered by their owner. Their children had option of education, and were usually brought up in the households where they worked, they had every chance in their lives to be successful. As the various slave leaders and scholars of the muslim world have proven.

So really the term "slavery" has come to take a different meaning in islam. Or else how is it possible that the slave of Muhammad, alaihi salaam, preferred to live with him than with his own beloved parents? See the story of Zaid.


[wlm]

S.


07/03/02 at 20:59:01
Soulman


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