A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 06/28/02 at 12:58:24 |
| ok, madinites......sigh. i kind of wonder if someone could shed a little light on my confusion. and give me some practical advice.... it seems the longer i continue to participate here, the further away from the shahada i'm going. i have some ideas on why, but wonder if this is just what happens to people here.... as i said when i registered, i was looking for an emotional connection to god, and um, being here is not helping me. having read in, um i think it was the colliding articles (hee heee) that bro ahmer put up, that communities would do well to establish mentor systems, i think that's what's missing -- even though i've had lots of "assistants" for periods of time here, i guess maybe this is a personal and very real world thing that can't be replaced by an on-line interaction. even in my discussions with mokhtar, though i love listening to him give talks - and just talk, period! - i think we often end up talking science and physics hee heeee and it's almost like it would be way too personal to talk differently.... (oh i don't mean that we don't talk about god and islam!) and i know without a doubt that my "case" is unusual (if not downright bizarre) for my failure to have god as a child. part of the problem getting past that is that i'm soooooooooooooooo hard-headed (hey i have a lot of scot-german, nothing i can do about it..) that it's rare to find someone who can, um, "deal" with me well. he he he i was kind of counting on palestine to finish the job all by herself...... and, as was also mentioned in that article, those coming to islam don't have a lot of time to fool around trying this one and then that one -- i've been through that with doctors, found one good one in about 10, and i have less time for this than i ever had patience for their incapacities in the practice of medicine. ok, so now the, um, edge of crankiness is creeping out here --- that's where i'm really at with this. feeling frustrated and not having fun. think my grasp on god is established, though not permanently, but cannot seem to get any further than i am now. i don't have the luxury of taking "time off" for this pursuit. keep finding myself forced into that position, though, when i run into, um bad places, and can't keep up regular function because this is haunting me so. don't have time for that either... so, without a personal teacher or mentor or time to take for personally indulgent seclusion, what kind of creative ideas can anyone give me? pretty much out of ideas, and afraid i'm going backwards faster than i'm going forward, screwball mwishka |
| 07/02/02 at 22:54:28 |
| mwishka |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| Mohja |
| 06/28/02 at 15:15:44 |
| Dear mwishka, First of all, i have to say that I was reluctant to post due to my lack of ilm(knowledge) and because i don't know your situation well, save what i could read here and there on the board. But since you asked for advice, here it goes. Forgive me if any of what i say carries a wrong assumption on my part. Have you considered asking GOD to help you in your search for Him?? one thing that islam teaches us is that nothing occurs without the permission of Allah[swt]; that the so called law of cause and effect is in actuality the creation of Allah.In other words, instead of looking for guidance from human beings, who themselves need guidance, why not [u]humbly[/u] and [u]sincerely[/u] request it from the Guider Himself, first? Remember Islam means submission. This is both the starting point and the fruit of iman (belief/faith). Unless one realizes their total helplessness vis a vis God and their neediness then there's no point in even looking for God. Is there? (i know i know, you're gonna ask how do you know you need God if you don't even believe in Him? hmm..why are you then looking for Him?) I had a weak athiest/agnostic colleague at work and we often discussed religion. She was having some of the same problems that you are talking about. I gave her the same advice and her reply was really interesting. She said that if she prayed to God for guidance then that means that she already accepts His existance and she wasn't ready for that yet. To me it sounded, and Allah knows best, as if she "wanted" to find the Truth, but on her own terms; not as it really is but as she thinks it *should*be. Do you see what i mean? Of course i'm not saying this is the case with you but i know how easy it is to get wrapped up in our own little "perceptions" of the reality so much so that we delude ourselves that we're on the right track in our persuits when in fact we're way off base.I've seen it in myself! So maybe for a start you can sit down with yourself and find out exactly why you're here? and what is the best way to get where you want to go? while being mindful of a little nosy mouse called ego! :) I hope this helped a bit and that i didn't confuse you any further. May Allah[swt] guide us all. peace :-) |
| 06/28/02 at 15:44:48 |
| Mohja |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 06/28/02 at 16:22:57 |
| sis mohja, oh no you certainly didn't add to my confusion. and i agree with your suggestion. in fact, that's exactly what i've tried, which is why i think it must be that i need more personal guidance because...well....that doesn't seem to be working for me. (hee heee see shahada bookstore, the love dogs. trying to figure out where the response is.. i'm pretty good at being a squeaky little mouse, but not doing so good at being a dog...... :( ) he he no i wouldn't ask that particular question. i'm quite sure i need someone's help, and if god is out there it must be god's help i need. i once got the good advice to pray anyway even if i didn't have any idea what i was doing or if i knew if anyone WAS out there. it really was good advice, but, um, to you this will sound odd, but the praying, no matter how sincere it seems to be, still feels like just "practice". ok :D i'm sure you can't imagine not knowing how to pray! that must sound really strange to believing people. thanks for your advice, though, sis mohja, because i guess i do need to hear the same thing just over and over and over and eventually either it will just sink in properly, or....well, not sure what the other possiblity might be called by nature, but it's the one where everything falls nicely into place, and all the questions go away because i have more than answers.:) mwishka (will keep trying. and trying.) (oh yeah forgot to add that that's my concern, that i'm somehow way off track and don't know just how far off-track i am.....!) |
| 06/28/02 at 16:56:12 |
| mwishka |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| AbdulJalil |
| 06/28/02 at 16:46:27 |
| assalamu alaikum why don't you try to take classes about Islam at your masjid? perhaps you will find some sisters who will help you(or you don't need to take the classes,just try to hook up with some sisters who are willing to help you) Try this book too "Islam the Natural Way": http://www.mels.webstar.co.uk/booksc.html#8 |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 06/28/02 at 17:11:38 |
| bro abdul jalil, in the past i'd been reluctant to take classes at the masjid, because, well, atheists don't fit in too well when they start asking all the wrong questions and people just get annoyed (yep, this has been my experience with most people who have god) if you kind of sound like, um a two-year old, maybe saying "why?" or "how?" even once too many times.... BUT i should reconsider that option, since i really have gotten pretty far since then. (it might seem like barely a mm to you all, but......for me i've come light years from no belief and no doubt about that -- though i was always open to having my doubt removed. guess i never had the right conversations before recently...) yeah i have female friends who are muslim. they're not um open to the "kind" of islam i'm interested in....ayyy that sounds weird, eh? um, my friends are very traditional. someone like hamza yusuf is um too "sufi" for them, so i mostly don't talk god, really tothem, just religious and cultural practices... um thanks for the book suggestion. don't think i've seen that one...... heee heeee really bro, i'm quite impatient at this point. i have tremendous stresses around me (eh, what doctoral student doesn't??) and i just can't settle down and be patient anymore..... might sound whiny, sorry! it's just that it's been such a long hard struggle to get this far (the mm, you know?) and i'd hate to lose it all, and just start sliding backwards..... :( but i'm afraid that's starting to kind of happen... silly mouse |
| 06/28/02 at 23:03:57 |
| mwishka |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| NinthMuharram |
| 06/29/02 at 02:15:48 |
| (((((((( LIL MOUSE ))))))) lotsa hugs to you sista, I will repeat the advice from Umm Wafi to you, to focus on your side, yourself, YOU, before crossing to the other side (Islam/God the Creator) . What do you know abt yourself. Analyse that first. Everything. From the day you were born(well maybe not that far) till the present time. For everything that happen, there is always the root cause that propagate this issue. Personal stuff that you don't have to tell us abt. Sit down with a good Muslim that you trust and respect. Perhaps, the manners and practises of this person will rub on you. K.I.S.S <-- just learn it from my co-worker :) . Keep It Simple & Short. I'd like to stress in Keep It Simple part. Let yourself be free for a few moment from all the distressing issues circling around you, esp Palestine. Sound like a bad arguement/advice, eh? :) . What I mean is not be sucked into the vortex of emotions circling that issue. Let others think abt ot for a while. It is ok. Once your mind, heart and soul are clear then go ahead think abt it! Give yourself a break :) . A lot of Muslims are also having difficulties understanding God. It is not just you. I wanted to post a few verses from the Qu'ran but I forgot which chapter and verse number... I'll go look for it during the weekend. I am not sure if whatever I have typed hurt you more or not, or confuse you even more. My hope is for you not worry because that is what I sense in your post. Worry and anxiety lead to fatigue, esp your mind. Your desprate heartfelt desire to understand your Creator. It is a big thing right now, why not break it into pieces and deal with it one by one. Do not move to the next puzzle when you haven't solve all the riddles in the first one. All of the members of the board here are supporting you all the way, though most of us can't be there personally in physical with you. When you're down, we will pull you up. When you're happy, we will cheer with you. When you worry, we will make du'a for you. InshaAllah, things will come easy for you. Yanno what, there are almost 600 members here, just think of how many du'as (supplication/prayer) are for you , dear sista. ARGH!!!!!!!!! I've typed too much. Salam. |
| 06/29/02 at 02:18:19 |
| NinthMuharram |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| NinthMuharram |
| 06/29/02 at 02:24:55 |
| Just adding a lil bit more. Perhaps putting distance to any people that make you confuse, upset or worry more. I know it is hard for you as you have a very active mind, to response, answer and write to the editorial :) if you see something not right or half right. A thougth just came across my mind. I was thinking of how Rasulullah [saw] went to Hira' Cave (right?) every night , alone, thinking, meditating. Taking a break from his society condition, to be alone. I'm not asking you to start going off to forest or caves! Just the idea of having a personal space and time with total peace. Find it. I know you can. Lil mouse can just abt do anything she sets her heart one. :) |
| 06/29/02 at 02:25:34 |
| NinthMuharram |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| Traveler |
| 06/29/02 at 06:28:59 |
mwishka don't worry if you're not able to find God in your life. By reason if God exists and wants to be worshiped or to be realized, I believe it's his duty to tell us of his existence without a shadow of a doubt. But I strongly believe we have to make an effort to seek the truth to find it. And if God is Truth He will make sure you find out. On our part I think we should just be honest to ourselves, so when we do come in contact with the Truth we don't deny it just because it came in conflict with our current set of beliefs, whatever they might be. And I recommend you taking up ninthmuharram's advice of finding some time for yourself. Find some time to reflect upon your life and how you fit into this world. Believe me, it does help for it has helped me. I think I know what you're going through. I went through it myself and am still going through it to some extent. But everyday the burden seems to lighten. And I sincerely hope you find that peace of mind you've been so earnestly trying to find. |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| Sara |
| 06/29/02 at 12:56:36 |
| Mwishka, I'm not sure I understand your dilemma completely, so let me rephrase what I understand. Are saying that you are willing to believe in Allah... you understand that the Islamic worldview is correct logically speaking, but you need to feel, and experience, and that's what you are having difficulty in? |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 06/29/02 at 16:19:37 |
| yep, you got it, sis sara. i guess i have to acknowledge that i think this is my second time hanging out in al-manar groaning over feeling stalled out....... i think i'm just temporarily having to bide my time in reality - that nothing happens magically, automatically....that different things come to different people with different degrees of ease. maybe i'm not grateful enough for the things that aren't difficult. hmmmm....maybe that's my whole obstacle. little mouse can't even appreciate that she was born loving to squeak...... um 9thM and traveller, uh, well, maybe i've had enough um reflection and now i could just um really use some help with what i find there....:D :D mwishka |
| 06/29/02 at 16:26:41 |
| mwishka |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| an |
| 06/30/02 at 13:57:39 |
| [slm] sis, I'm just wondering, beside looking for the connection, are there any fears as to your stopping doing the shahada? A friend once told me that Islam is a state of becoming not being, which means that we will always continually work on improving ourselves. Taking the shahada is only just the first step not the final. It may be that the experience you are looking for come about after the shahada or maybe during the shahada. We're all seeking to get that connection to God but I believe that God will truly guide those who are sincerely seeking the truth. Sometimes the feeling that we seek come when we're not really forcing ourselves to feel it. Sometimes it just comes naturally. sis, it might simply be time. Hang in there, and take it easy and slowly. The time will come for you sis, but don't let it steal you. Wassalam. |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 07/01/02 at 01:14:09 |
| sis an, my main qualm about the shahada is a basic question of honesty. i sometimes grasp this idea of god (a miracle in itself -- this is NO small statement), but this is an oath of faith, right? you can't take an oath if there's some uncertainty. i may just be so inexperienced with the idea of god that i can't recognize that i do indeed understand it now, or it might still be that i just need more time to be certain. it must sound funny, but i can't even tell which it is....but i think it's that most of the time the idea just slips away from me, and i can't find it anymore. and i'm a very honest sort of person, so i'm not able to take this lightly and just say "yeah well maybe..who cares if i know what i'm doing or not?" it's very very serious to me, and i feel like i can only do such a thing in full truth... mwishka |
| 07/01/02 at 01:16:19 |
| mwishka |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| BrKhalid |
| 07/01/02 at 14:08:59 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]so, without a personal teacher or mentor or time to take for personally indulgent seclusion, what kind of creative ideas can anyone give me?[/quote] Sometimes it's not a case of finding the right answers but asking the right questions. |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 07/02/02 at 23:06:16 |
| um, bro khalid, are you going to help me any more than that....or leave me stranded here in the dark? :( i mean, is that as in >hint hint< "you know what the questions are but you're not asking them", or......perhaps you might have suggestions for me of how or in what way i'm asking the wrong questions......??? mwishka (who's feeling like someone dumped her into a water-maze and then turned all the lights out.....:( ) |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| UmmZaid |
| 07/03/02 at 03:04:34 |
| [slm] Mwishka: I don't know what to say to you. I guess I sort of understand your dilemna... I wish Muslims (in general, esp. IRL) would make it easier for people like yourself to question and wonder, you know, make it safe for you to do so. Maybe the only thing I can say is to let go of this expectation you seem to be holding that "experiencing God" will be an overwhelming, at-once experience. I know that a lot of Born Again Christians have testified about this sudden feeling of love and faith flooding into the heart, but IME, it isn't really a true experience for many, or most people. "Experiencing God" or coming to know Him and His Signs may seem very mundane or ordinary. It may take time. 'Iman (faith) increases and decreases. Don't look to other people to help you establish that connection or have that experience. I don't think growing up atheist or agnostic should affect you anymore than growing up Jewish or Christian. In fact, I would argue it may be more to your advantage, since you don't have a pre-conceived notion of how God should be or how experiencing Him should be. Like others said here, look within yourself. But I would add, look at the Universe around you. Look at the trees or mountains or desert or whatever the nature is where you are. Study the stars and planets. In His Qur'an, Allah subhannahu wa ta'ala asks us to reflect on these things around us as His Signs. Try not to look to other people to validate your experience. If you don't find a tolerant / friendly crowd at the masjid, well, you only need one person. Insha'Allah, you will find that one person who you can question and confide in. Anyway, if you like, you can send me a private message and we can exchange e-mails, if that is more comfortable for you. Umm Zaid |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| BrKhalid |
| 07/04/02 at 09:55:45 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]um, bro khalid, are you going to help me any more than that....or leave me stranded here in the dark? :( i mean, is that as in >hint hint< "you know what the questions are but you're not asking them", or......perhaps you might have suggestions for me of how or in what way i'm asking the wrong questions......??? mwishka (who's feeling like someone dumped her into a water-maze and then turned all the lights out.....:( )[/quote] My apologies mwishka if I added to your confusion. It certainly wasn't my intention. :( What I intended was to get you to think, reflect and ponder over what you've been through and what you've learnt here and elsewhere. Let me tell you of an experience of mine when I was a kid……. I remember doing my math(s) homework on many occasions and always getting stuck on some question or another. My textbook had the answers at the back, so when I was at the end of my tether I would sneak a look. Usually it would say something like 42 and that was it. It just gave you the answer and nothing else. Of course that was of much use!!! NOT ;-) The key thing being I wanted to know *how* to get to the answer and not just the answer itself. Ahhh the amount of times I used to pull my hair out trying to figure stuff out shere this answer came from!!! But anyway enough of me and my bald headed youth……. If you read one of Sr se7en's posts, you'll notice she has the following as part of her text: "I love not those that set" This is a quote from the Prophet Ibrahim (as) when he was also searching for his Lord. [color=Brown]So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude. When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set." When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray." When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah. "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah." [6:75-79][/color] As has been said by others in this thread already, there is much benefit in reflecting on the knowledge that you have obtained and reasoning with your own mind. I'm sure all of us on the board would love for you to come up with the right answer. ;-) There was something interesting which you also said in an earlier post: [quote]and if god is out there it must be god's help i need[/quote] As Muslims we believe the *answer* to any problem is *Allah's help* [like 42 in my example above] but the real *question* is how do you go about getting Allah's help??? In the case of the Prophet Ibrahim (as) he made tremendous sacrifices in the path of Allah once he received guidance. Each time he sacrificed something, the help of Allah was near. When he broke the idols of the idol worshippers, Allah protected him from the fire they had him thrown in. When he gave up his wife and only son in the desert, Allah provided water from the well of ZamZam. When he was prepared to give up his son, Allah replaced it with a ram. The real question mwishka is what are you prepared to sacrifice in order to obtain Allah's help??? Because if you truly make a sacrifice to find Allah, His help will come and once you see it, you will know finally that there is indeed a God. [color=Brown]"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)." [8:53][/color] InshaAllah I pray this has been of some use to you. May Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong. Any errors are mine and mine alone. Wasalaam Br Khalid |
| 07/04/02 at 09:58:00 |
| BrKhalid |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| Sultana_Begum |
| 07/13/02 at 09:19:14 |
| Asalamu Alaikum, It seems like you need a constant connection with Allah, well Allah is wuth all the time, we need to help you realize that somehow. You should read Qur'an more to make your Iman , your faith, stronger, it surely will bring tears to your eyes. Read the history of Islam, you'll never be the same pick up a Seerah book. You seriously should consoder getting married, your spouse will discuss Islam with you always insha allah, kind of like a personal mentor. I kind of know how you feel and that is why I am offering you this advice. It changed my life. May Allah be with you. |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| mwishka |
| 07/13/02 at 14:57:37 |
| sis sultana, thank you for your kind thoughts and considerate suggestion. unfortunately, there is a serious problem with what you suggest, which seems to have some chicken-and-egg qualities to it, i.e., the very personal help a spouse could offer might be the most effective help that one could receive in their need, and quest, to be closer to god, but without first becoming close to god on my own - becoming muslim - such a spouse would be unavailable to me. i appreciate your concern, though. i do read qur'an and listen to the arabic. i'm just drifting in a forwards and backwards process that doesn't seem to be settling anywhere particular..... he he haven't reached equilibrium, and don't even know the equilibration time period for this particular little mouse in this particular process under these particular conditions - maybe i have a long time to wait until that state is reached, maybe it will be minutes. i have no basis for prediction here. mwishka |
| Re: confusion.... |
|---|
| Kathy |
| 07/14/02 at 23:21:57 |
| My little mouse, As you have noticed I have stayed away from answering your question, mainly because I have yet to understand your question. I am a simple woman with simple thoughts, perhaps that is why I too am unsure of the advice to give you. I would like to offer you a little cheese- with out the trap... to come sit and nibble some corn with me. Answer me these questions-[i]as simply and short as possible![/i] ;) What are you most afraid of? Who are you most afraid of? Tell me what you do as far as charity? Tell me about your wealth.[i]materialistically[/i] Tell me about the person you love most. Tell me about the heartache. |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |