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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| Anonymous | |
| 07/06/02 at 02:11:36 | |
| I read a hadith that states that if a woman does not come when her husband calls her to bed the angels curse her till morning. My question is what if she avoids him because he ticks her off to the point where she can't stand him? Some points to consider is that the relationship is extremely weak because of things that have happened in the past and divorce is not an option. | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| Barraa | |
| 07/06/02 at 04:45:24 | |
| sister which hadeeth was that and are sure its true? | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| Kathy | |
| 07/06/02 at 10:16:14 | |
| [slm] Here is the hadith: It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘When a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he went to sleep angry with her, the angels will curse her until morning.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3065; Muslim, 1436) Why is divorce not an option? It is not fair to you or your husband not to have marrital relations. Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this? Should you really remain married?... or will counseling help? | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| BroHanif | |
| 07/06/02 at 17:23:50 | |
| [slm], If he ticks her off to a point without a valid sharee reason for example, he abuses her or mistreats her to a certain degree, then the fault will lie at the mans head and not at the womans. The above hadith surely dosen't mean women are just subject to the mans whims and desires. Islam looks after both parties and if the man causes much heartache and grief to the woman and then calls her for the act then his got some nerve. Hanif | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| amatullah | |
| 07/07/02 at 15:07:46 | |
| Bismillah and salam, I really missed this board. Alhemdulilah. i just wanted to put this hadeeth from sahih ilbukhari in defense of the woman: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68: Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a: "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?" which is quite wrong and barbaric to do wrong on to others and then demand your rights over them. On the other hand, what is it that you are seeking sister? hopefully the answer is the hereafter. And so do not deprive him of rights just becuase you he did that to you. two wrongs do not make a right. It is better to ask Allah the ajir for giving him his rights. And in fact you get probably more ajir and rewards the more difficult it was for you to obey him. That means you have overcome the shaytan and upset him since he is most proud of his offspring that seperate husbands and wives. And/or you have overcome the nafs or the hawa. You have set your soul free from the "ana" ( i seek refuge in Allah from thinking the importance of that word 'I') And sometimes it is a good thing to erase whatever bad feelings were there before from an argument for example. 3aqd nika7 = a sex contract (excuse the clarity) but this is what the marriage is based on in its essence the contract. You are not obligated to do much else (ie ironing, etc although we have the sahabeyat and even the daughter of the messenger of Allah herself doing everythings for their husbands) all for extra reward and the thawab of the true jihad that a marriage life is for the woman. My advice is do not deprive him of something that they as men are in too much need of. The reason most get married is to be chaste. If you think you are avoiding him because he tick you off to the point where you can't stand hims is a solution you are wrong. You really need to work on it if you wanted to continue, or if you feel it just has to. what is the point of saying it has to, but chosing to make it a miserable one? difficulties are a must in life, but misery is optional. Perhaps not to discuss it right at the moment that you are ticked off but you need to communicate with him better later, and tell him how it makes you feel. and plan things together. and make dua. http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/riyad/00/chap035.htm | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| mwishka | |
| 07/07/02 at 16:22:21 | |
| sis anonymous, if the relationship as it exists now is weak, you need to go to your imam with your husband and find ways to make your relationship strong. neither of you should have to be in a relationship which is making both of you unhappy. like sis kathy, i wonder why you say that divorce is not an option - it is always an option, if the reason for it is appropriate. if you mean that you feel that perhaps the economic circumstances of your life make you feel that divorce is not an option, then this, too, is a reason to go to your imam, alone if you must. but if your marriage is actually bad, and not just weak, you should not be in it, and your imam would support you. islam does not require you to subject yourself to a life that works against your own ability to be strong in living life with your husband as islam has taught, which includes that you must share a sexually satisfying relationship - not that HE is entitled to this alone, but that it must be mutual. sis amatullah, my knowledge of islam is quite limited, but i don't think most muslim wives or husbands would enter a marriage they felt was based on nothing more than a contract giving the husband one-way rights to a sexual relationship with his wife. it is my understanding that this is NOT what the contract represents. but, as i said, i don't know very much, and it could be that the general opinions of muslims here are just opinions, and that the contract really is meant for nothing more than that. BUT based on what i have learned of islam so far i SINCERELY doubt it. there was an extended discussion here not long ago about what wives would want to have stated in their contracts, and nowhere in that discussion did it say that the true prupose of the contract was sexual obedience. if i am wrong, i am happy to be corrected. and as i understand it, that contract is exactly what could protect a woman like sis anonymous from feeling divorce was not an option granted her --- that is, of course, if what she means is the fear of economic deprivation if she divorced. (if that is not her case, i still want to emphasize that supposedly women are to be protected in islam from such a possibility.) the one other important thing i want to add here is that there is no truth to the idea that men have more need for sexual activity than women do. this is one of the ways in which islam has limited itself, and deprived the ummah, by failing to engage in modern scientific study and scholarship. the fact of that matter is that there are men with high sex drive (if i should not say that here would someone just edit this to something suitable?) and women with high sex drive. and there are men with a low drive and women with a low drive. and all of them are normal for themselves. as brother jaihoon has said elsewhere today (al-taqwa), most traditional muslim communities do not permit a couple to "know each other" very well before they marry, because the sexes cannot mix. without at all getting into that area of discussion, let me just say that there are many ways and many levels in which married couples will have to find common ground, and the less they know each other the more they must accept that they face putting in a lot of work to making that common ground a firm foundation for their future together. their sexual interactions are going to be one of the most important areas for them to actively work to ensure mutual trust and respect, since it is the singular facet of a family relationship which is exclusive to the couple, but also holds the most potential for enhancing the harmony of not only personal interactions between the wife and husband, but also the level of harmony of their entire family life. mwishka | |
| 07/07/02 at 16:25:46 | |
| mwishka |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| amatullah | |
| 07/07/02 at 16:47:16 | |
| Bismillah and salam, You are right in the sense that the contract of marriage the bond has many rights and duties that is not just sexual of nature. but i think you misunderstood what i wrote is the words itself in arabic mean nika7=sexual and that is in islam for a certain reason which is to emphasize the importance of intimacy between the couple. i didn't say that is all it is. a marriage obviously is much more. I am trying to show her the importance of intimacy in the marriage to the point they named it after that. It is the only person you are with like that and that is a major factor which makes the relationship different from with any other. I don't know about what you wrote about the sexual arousal and drive of men and women. but i have read many western scientific things that seem to imply that men are more easily. Anyhow this is what the prophet saws has implied in many occassions saying it is a hard fitna on men and not vice verse and science will some day get the facts straightened out insha'Allah if you say you have read otherwise. I think even common knowledge dictates that although yes there are high drive of both genders and low drives of both, that on average the man thinks more aobut it, easily affected, and the need itself seems to be more physical in nature, when women it is more emotional. I realize i say this is a common knowledge thing since it is on average, but the exceptions does not mean deviation or anything, it is nromal for themselves. And in fact the prophet saws praised a woman who wants it from her husband alot. He has told us many other things has happened with so many different information that he has told us about, may peace and blessings be upon him, that science later explains. I think there is truth to it. For example, sleeping on your right side, now they ask the ICU in hospital to put them on right side. diets, etc I think you are again right about seeking help. like i already told her, going down a negative road is useless if not harmful. If she feels that divorce is not an option like ex. wanting the kids to grow in a two parents and he is good to them and for them or for wahtever reason she doesn't want to get divorced, then she needs to communicate better with the husband and to try to solve the problems instead of running away from them. divorce is a huge thing in the eyes of Allah. Just this word thrown around between couples makes the thron of Allah with all its majesty shake. It is halal but it is the worst, absolute bottom, of the halal thing there is. If you can work it out it is better. In terms of not knowing each other before marriage i know what you mean, but i don't think it is more difficult than if you know them. A marriage is a difficult to live with another and your lives are so intertwines all of a sudden. I think if they have the ultimate goal the same, then whatever difference they put it back to What is best islamically and they do that. Idont' know how many countless coulpes who are " in love" got married only to divoce later. Love comes as you see this person cares and takes care and is fair, etc not the excitment and fleeing things. A woman i know lived with the guy 8 years and then they divorced after marriage. You don't know the true person without hte commitment i guess. It is not as hard as the westerners imagine it to be. And besides you get to sit and talk to them before you marry, you are allowed to do that, as long as it is in public or with guardians, and you can discuss the important things to you. perhaps i am repeating what has already been discussed in another thread?! | |
| 07/07/02 at 17:05:08 | |
| amatullah |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| amatullah | |
| 07/07/02 at 16:52:10 | |
Sheikh Ahmad Kutty Profession A Senior Lecturer and an Islamic Scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Subject General Fatwa Session Date Sunday,Jul 7 ,2002 Name muslima - Profession Question what do you say about a husband who refuses his wife's demand to sexual intercouse? Does this mean that he will be cursed by angels the same way with a woman who does the same act? Answer In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. As far as the teachings of the Qur’an and the Sunnah are concerned, just as the husband has rights over his wife, the wife has rights over her husband. Allah (SWT) says in the Qur’an: “And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness…” (Al-Baqarah: 228) As Imam Al-Ghazli has analyzed this issue, this includes women’s rights to sexual satisfaction. Therefore, just as a wife will be accountable for her refusal to the demand of her husband, the husband will be also accountable for his deliberate act or negligence in this matter. In conclusion, let us remind each other that of the Prophet’s statement that “your spouse has right over you”. This involves both partners. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: “Man would be committing a huge sin if he were to neglect those who are dependant on him.” All of these reminders would be sufficient for the husband who is conscious of Allah (SWT) to do his best to please his wife just as she should be doing whatever she can within the permissible limits to please her husband. Having said this, I would like to draw your attention that there might be some medical or psychological reasons for your husband’s unusual behavior towards you, so it is advised to seek professional help in this matter. Often times people become disinterested in sex because of depression for other reasons, so both of you should seek professional help in this matter. Allah Almighty knows best. | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| mwishka | |
| 07/07/02 at 20:18:11 | |
| sis amatullah, i did appreciate that you were offering a definition, but, please accept my apologies, i thought you were doing so to cynically say that's what the contract is in essence, and that 's nearly the limit of a woman's obligations, so how much could that be asking of her, and she has no choice in the matter. i won't dwell on the mentality of men vs. women where sex is concerned, except to say that it's not as simple as one gender vs. the other. women have just as hard a time as men do, whereas most cultures condition people to think that for men it's something different. no doubt there are lots of women who have greater emotional than physical needs, but men are unfortunately conditioned to believe that for them only one of those needs is manly, and the other is "effeminate". that's why the idea persists in its one-sided form. as cultures evolve and the nature of the work people do in their society changes from more physcial to less physical, our general metabolism changes and our individual hormone production changes, because most hormones are messengers, telling the body what's needed and where and when in order to both maintain health and to accommodate change or emergency need. a person who engages in a lot of physical labor, including the type of physical demands on people of the past, especially at times of war, would have a different metabolic balance than a man or woman of today who eats very few real foods or does very much manual work. physical health and vigor generally provide a higher degree of sexual health and vigor ---- though not always! heee heee nothing human is absolute, except birth and death.... as for sleeping on the right side: i have questioned people repeatedly about this recommendation, and never gotten a satisfactory answer. i hesitate to explain this, (especially since this thread is not about this!) since my explanation will tell you that it is frequently but not ALWAYS the best way to sleep, but perhaps it will help somehow. the reason patients who need to lie in bed immobile for long periods of time would be turned to the right is to facilitate peristalsis (through the body traveling of digested food). our activity generally aids in this, helping to keep our general metabolism (rate of body maintenance and repair processes) at a high enough level for good health, and people who develop sedentary habits, such as those who are forced to sit at desks for long periods of the working day, will develop sluggish or impaired digestion, which is a key system, of course, in human metabolism. for a person who can't get out of bed, lying on the right side will help empty the stomach contents into the ilium leading into the small intestine (i'm no medical doctor, just a chemist, so any biology-degreed people out there feel free to correct any errors i make - thanks). BUT, for a person who is sick to their stomach (nauseated or vomiting) this will make things much much worse. a person who is sick to their stomach - for whatever reason - will feel almost instantly quieter and calmer and less nauseated if they lie down on their left side, for as long as the nausea persists. this prevents the stomach contents from entering the esophagus also, and traps them (liquid or liquidy) down in the bowl of the stomach. so perhaps a way of looking at this in the context of sleeping on the right side being desirable is that it is, if your health is good and your internal processes are working well. (and now another general apology, for this long digression - this particular topic has been a tiny little nagging thought for a long time. i never asked about it here because i just never know when someone will take offense at certain types of questions.....) mwishka | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| Kathy | |
| 07/07/02 at 22:27:18 | |
| [slm] Little mouse did you really think I would let this line pass by...uncommented on? [quote]this is one of the ways in which islam has limited itself, and deprived the ummah, by failing to engage in modern scientific study and scholarship. [/quote] Islam has not limited itself. We Muslims have.... | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| bhaloo | |
| 07/08/02 at 02:17:38 | |
| [slm] I just saw this thread now, and I'm glad Kathy made mention of this, because what Mwishka wrote was offensive. Islam is a perfect system, Muslims aren't. Also as a reminder, non-Muslims or Muslims that don't have knowledge about an Islamic matter, should not be speaking without knowledge when people are asking what Islam says about a matter. We want to ensure that when people are coming here and asking for Islamic opinions, proper evidence is provided (i.e. my sheikh said this, or this scholar said this, this is the view of this madhab, etc.) Of course good counseling, support, etc are always encouraged, but for serious matters when someone asks what does Islam say about this matter, do not even guess, we have to refer to those that are knowledgable in a matter. | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| Fatimah | |
| 07/08/02 at 11:23:07 | |
| salam alaikum, I was just wondering what evidence you have for this statement: *divorce is a huge thing in the eyes of Allah. Just this word thrown around between couples makes the thron of Allah with all its majesty shake. It is halal but it is the worst, absolute bottom, of the halal thing there is.* I was just wondering because this is a big statement. There are some hadiths I thought maybe you were refering to, but all are unacceptable. Allahu Alim. ÃÈÛÖ ÇáÍáÇá Åáì Çááå : ÇáØáÇÞ (The most hated halal to Allah: divorce) -this hadith is daief (weak). ãÇ ÃÍá Çááå ÔíÆÇ ÃÈÛÖ Åáíå ãä ÇáØáÇÞ (Allah did not make something lawful that is most hated to Him more than the divorce) -this hadith is daief (weak) ÊÒæÌæÇ æ áÇ ÊØáÞæÇ ÝÅä ÇáØáÇÞ íåÊÒ ãäå ÇáÚÑÔ (marry and do not divorce for verily divorce causes the arsha (throne of Allah) to shake) – this hadith is mawdoo and daief (fabricated and weak) | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband | |
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| amatullah | |
| 07/08/02 at 13:38:38 | |
| Bismillah and salam, JAZAKI ALLAH KULLLL KHAYR I ask Allah to yusli7 laki anneya (intention) and a-thureya (offspring) I always thought it was hasn. I also have other evidence about divorce i just have to research it insha'Allah. I will make sure it is authentica. May Allah bless you and reward you. It is a relief to know something correct. And alhemdulilah always always for Allah's mercy for lifting the pen from the wrongs we do out of forgetfullness or not knowing to begin with. | |
| Re: Saying "No" to Husband |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/08/02 at 15:05:54 |
| salam alaikum sister amatullah, mashaAllah, your information about divorce is really good. My last post, I just wanted to point out those hadiths in case that was what you were referring to. Im really careful about the information I read. Alhamdulilah, Allah doesnt take us for our mistakes. I do know divorce really should be the last option. Id love if you posted more about it. Take care. salam |
| 07/08/02 at 15:07:54 |
| Fatimah |
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