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| So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| abc10 |
| 07/14/02 at 11:09:51 |
| Let me explain my situation & maybe you could advise me I don't mind if its from Muslim or non Muslims. I was married for 14 yrs before this to a non Muslim who drank & smoked pot too much. So I left him, I met this Egyptian Muslim on the internet while researching Islam for myself (I was very down spiritually after my 1st husband). I kept hearing more & more about Islam, all through the internet. Well, finally I met him at this time since I didn't know much about Islam still, I guess I had no way to judge his behaviour. He mainly talked about Islam & that's what he still does. I married him against my familys wishes. I was 32 at the time, so they couldn't say too much. I reverted to Islam, he talked me into not working I wore the hijab for awhile (BTW I did feel very happy to wear it). Then he started running up my credit card to the point where I got a letter from a lawyer, he also used up my divorce settlement. So, then he changed his tune real fast about me not working and started comparing me with Sisters who didn't wear hijab, but worked. I argued like hell with him, but he kept saying "if you loved me..." So, I gave in of course & got a job as a hotel clerk this is vacation town & there isn't much else). Of course, you can't wear hijab in this job. I stayed there for about 9 months. This is a town where the spring break college kids come & the situation just got intolerable. They had wet t-shirts contests, wild drinking. I wasn't going to sit there & look at this any longer. I quit. I went back to wearing hijab. After 9/11 happened I was so depressed, I insisted we start going to the mosque & praying regularly. It took him approx. 2 yrs to even get me to the mosque. The sisters there are very welcoming and wanted to teach me more. But he wont' let me see them..I don't know if he's jealous or what, this really upset me as I have no Muslim person to talk to except him. All my real info is still coming off the internet. Then he stopped wanting to pray regularly with me saying "God understands..I just have to be in the mood". We then went to Egypt where he wanted me to wear hijab on the street & take it off in front of his family-there was a tremendous amount of pressure there as his brother was living in the same house. He encouraged me to kiss his Uncle, him & his sister-in-law would regurlarly hug or touch, not sexually, but still I don't he was supposed to do that. While I love his mom & sister,I was just miserable with this. And if I said anything at all I'm accussed of criticizing his family. After 3 yrs of this kind of practicing Islam where it's like "yes I know there are rules, but God will understand" I feel really lost. I can't tell him anything I've learned because he thinks he knows everything about Islam. And yes, I've tried talking to him hundreds of times,he's not interested in going to the Iman,I've threatened divorce...nothing works. I was hoping that my husband would actually help me with Islam. People, I'm so soul tired of this.....I cry every night I've never felt so alone. He doesn't escort me anywhere, even right after 9/11 when I was scared to wear the hijab. I still have no real life Muslim sisters to go anywhere with either....I don't want to leave Islam, but I see no way to live it with this man. If only I'd of known enough about Islam before I married him..I would have been able to see that he wasn't pious he just likes to talk about it and ignore the laws when he doesn't want to do them. I can't live in a vacuum without being allowed to see my Sisters & my only real live source of Islam is somebody who doesn't practice it. Well, just now looking over this (sometimes writing things out does help) it becomes obvious I have to get out of this situation. This marriage is just going to pull me right out of Islam. What do you think about trying a seperation first? Just leaving, until he can either decide to practice Islam or not. I think it's my last chance here. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| ijtihad |
| 07/14/02 at 13:02:01 |
| Asalaamalaikum wr wb, Sister, If the situation is as you say it is, i.e. your husband does not pray, etc., then, according to many scholars, you have to refuse intimate relationships with him. I strongly suggest you contact your local Imam, if he is an understanding person, and discuss the matter with him. Jazaakallah Khair. May Allah [swt] keep you strong....ameen. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| se7en |
| 07/14/02 at 15:55:13 |
as salaamu alaykum, [quote] you have to refuse intimate relationships with him.[/quote] How would that help rectify things in her marriage? *confused* |
| 07/14/02 at 15:55:49 |
| se7en |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| jaihoon |
| 07/15/02 at 02:35:18 |
| [quote] I don't want to leave Islam, but I see no way to live it with this man. If only I'd of known enough about Islam before I married him..I would have been able to see that he wasn't pious he just likes to talk about it and ignore the laws when he doesn't want to do them. I can't live in a vacuum without being allowed to see my Sisters & my only real live source of Islam is somebody who doesn't practice it. Well, just now looking over this (sometimes writing things out does help) it becomes obvious I have to get out of this situation. This marriage is just going to pull me right out of Islam. What do you think about trying a seperation first? Just leaving, until he can either decide to practice Islam or not. I think it's my last chance here. [/quote] [slm] It is a mistake to attribute ur relationship to islam based on a person or a place. Islam demands loyalty to God, not to individuals or relationships. While I know these words wouldnt solve ur problem ,you have to understand that you are solely accountable to Allah for whatever decision u take. Islam has nothing to do with a country like egypt (or any other country for that case) or a certain individual. Maybe this is a trial from Allah which would eventually change. Take it as a challenge to prove ur faith. dear sis in islam, i dont have the capacity to suggest separation or patience- this is totally a personal affair involving ur relatoinship with ur deen and Allah. Wait for some more time... Allah is not deaf or blind. He surely knows the warmth of every teardrop shed in the nightly hours. May Allah give you peace... I rememeber readin the story of a renowned western female author who embraced Islam by meeting a paki man and married him seeing his 'piety' only to see that in the later stage of their life, while in pakistan, the man started drinking etc. She separated from him. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| abc10 |
| 07/15/02 at 10:12:58 |
| [quote] It is a mistake to attribute ur relationship to islam based on a person or a place. Islam demands loyalty to God, not to individuals or relationships. While I know these words wouldnt solve ur problem ,you have to understand that you are solely accountable to Allah for whatever decision u take. Islam has nothing to do with a country like egypt (or any other country for that case) or a certain individual.[/quote] Maybe I came off wrong, being articulate is not one of my strong points! , I do understand that Allah is the only one that matters. I wasn't blaming him or his country. Allah alone know how many hours I've put into researching all of this on my own. Thank God, for the internet! I wasn't blaming my husband or his country. My point was, how hard it is trying to live an Islamic life with somebody who will not & since he won't let me have any kind of relationships with the local Muslim community, I don't even have that kind of support . My family isn't Muslim, so I don't talk to them about this. So, the only Muslim person I have to talk to is my husband. Constantly having to discuss, debate, argue with him about when its appropriate to take hijab off (being pressured by him to take it off when he wants) & the importance of praying & the importance of trying to live an Islamic life is exhausting and dispiriting. After 3 years of this...I know three things for a fact. 1. I can never, ever change my husband only Allah can do that. The only thing I can do is pray for him, whether we separate or not I'll be praying for him. 2. I know that I want to have an Islamic home & strive to improve it.. 3. After 3 yrs of only finding out info on the internet, I need to be free to build relationships with my local Muslim community. I'm going to go crazy from loneliness doing it like this. That's my dilemma. I just wanted to mention also, how much I'm impressed by these boards. I can't put my finger on why it's different from most of the others, you really seem to have a nice mix of people here, but I don't see the nastiness or the "my way is the only way" I see on others. 100 gold stars to everybody here! Here's a funny thing too..I spent hours reading all kinds of posts here...I did read the one about dreaming about the board. Thought it was cute. I had a dream last night that I was looking here and somebody handed me a box of those girl scout chocolate chip mint cookies, said they were doing it for all the people currently online! Then I looked at the bottom and I wasn't logged in, just lurking. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how they knew I was even there!Thanks Guys, they were tasty! |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| Kareema_Abdul-Khab |
| 07/15/02 at 10:42:45 |
| So, basically, your problem is that you want to put following the obligatory and spiritual aspects of the religion of Allah ahead of your marriage? I was under the impression that one of the sole reasons for marriage was to increase your faith. Struggle that doesn't involve making your Islamic situation better in short or long term isn't jihadul-nafs(a struggle with your lower self)its often the opposite. You've already strived for three years to make something of your marriage, and you don't look to be prepared to spend a lifetime. I think there are some cases in which striving for Allah would mean seperating from your husband. You were very emotionally vulnerable after you left your first husband, it seems you are still quite vulnerable. A seperation may add even more to this if its messy, but you can then satisfy yourself that you tried everything and every possibility to keep your marriage going, so I would recommend it, it's the Islamic way :-X Have you seen a sheik or any type of counselor who maybe can try to talk some since into your husband and convince him that what he's doing is wrong?You do know that your husband Islamically cannot prevent you from going to the masjid to make even the daily prayers? Sounds like he has a lot of cultural Islam going on. About the finances, why does he need the money, doesn't he have his own job? Are financial problems causing a lot of friction, this could be a major, major issue. PS I really, [i]really[/i]didn't write another post advocating divorce/seperation. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| ijtihad |
| 07/15/02 at 18:10:08 |
| Asalaamalaikum, [quote author=se7en link=board=madrasa;num=1026659391;start=0#2 date=07/14/02 at 15:55:13] as salaamu alaykum, How would that help rectify things in her marriage? *confused*[/quote] I was under the impression that the sister already had it with the relationship. Some scholars consider people who do not pray [with no valid excuse] or who openly deny this obligation [quote]he just likes to talk about it and ignore the laws when he doesn't want to do them[/quote] to be on the brink of kufr [as a hadith indicates]. Therefore they, through a very literal interpretation, suggest not having intimate relationships with someone who is on the very edge. Ofcourse this is just one opinion. My suggestion [of physically seperating oneself] was to make the husband know the seriousness of the matter at hand. I felt that her husband was not taking the sister seriously. Getting counsel from the local Imam is the best course of action....provided he is understanding and helpful, insha' Allah. I apologize if I misunderstood the issue at hand. Wasalaam. |
| 07/15/02 at 18:17:07 |
| ijtihad |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| jannah |
| 07/16/02 at 08:44:42 |
| [quote]I had a dream last night that I was looking here and somebody handed me a box of those girl scout chocolate chip mint cookies, said they were doing it for all the people currently online! Then I looked at the bottom and I wasn't logged in, just lurking. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how they knew I was even there!Thanks Guys, they were tasty! [/quote] Oh my goodness!! Talk about a crazy message board dream.. that should go in the archives :) as for the cookies... I wish ;) chocolate chip mint mmmm... i was never really a fan of the cookies.. but what made me change and what everyone should try is the Hood Mint Chocolate Chip Cookie Mini Sandwhiches -- only a 100 calories... :D |
| 07/16/02 at 08:45:47 |
| jannah |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| abc10 |
| 07/16/02 at 12:45:22 |
| Dear Brothers and Sisters, First of all thank you for all the replies here! If you are going to read this post, please get all comfy coz it's long! ijtihad- [quote]to be on the brink of kufr [as a hadith indicates]. Therefore they, through a very literal interpretation, suggest not having intimate relationships with someone who is on the very edge. Of course this is just one opinion.[/quote] I'm not sure on this either. A couple of people who he knows from school and who do go to the Mosque regurlarly, have actually cared enough about him to stop by our house & told him right to his face something about missing 3 of the Friday gooma? mandatory prayers in a row making him kufr. This happened on 2 separate occasions this had no effect on him. They then talk to me..and say "Make him go". As you can see from my post I've tried I don't know how many times ...I'm at a complete & utter loss. Kareema- [quote]So, basically, your problem is that you want to put following the obligatory and spiritual aspects of the religion of Allah ahead of your marriage? [/quote] Yes exactly.....at first my family was concerned that I was reverted just for him. Looking back (I'm really searching my heart on this) I can honestly say....that I really don't think that was the case.He probably had some sort of an influence,as far as timing goes. I believe that it would have happened eventually anyways. I knew the very basics of Islam and that it held the same values for me as what I already felt was important in life and wanted to know more. Now, I know for a fact that I will stay in Islam Insha Allah, man or no man. [quote]I was under the impression that one of the sole reasons for marriage was to increase your faith. Struggle that doesn't involve making your Islamic situation better in short or long term isn't jihadul-nafs(a struggle with your lower self)its often the opposite. You've already strived for three years to make something of your marriage, and you don't look to be prepared to spend a lifetime. I think there are some cases in which striving for Allah would mean seperating from your husband. [/quote] As to your 1st sentence...yes, me too. As to your second sentence I never thought of it in quite that way...but you are right. Your saying the struggles that would count would be something like wearing hijab even tho you may feel awkward. Or praying when you JUST don't feel like it! Who, hasn't had those times? Since, you put it in that light I've decided on my personal jihad and that will be quitting cigarettes (something I've been trying yrs to do). I will do it just for Allah, I'm not going to think about saving money or my mother doesn't like it,etc... I will focus on Allah & the fact that He doesn't like it! So, please pray to help me quit also. [quote]Have you seen a sheik or any type of counselor who maybe can try to talk some since into your husband and convince him that what he's doing is wrong?You do know that your husband Islamically cannot prevent you from going to the masjid to make even the daily prayers? Sounds like he has a lot of cultural Islam going on. [/quote] Well, hubby outright refuses to go at all....the general opinions here seem to be to see an Imam on my own. So, Insha Allah I'll do that. Yes, his Islam seems to be cultural. He lived in Saudi & learned the Quran in school until he was 13. Then moved to Egypt. His mom & a couple of his cousins were the only ones wearing hijab. His dad he said wasn't religious and cheated on his mom. This has nothing to do with him, but I was kind of disappointed in the fact that I REALLY wanted to talk to some people about Islam and the more religious Sisters I did meet, didn't speak a word of English & I know about 50 words of Arabic. Why...oh..why didn't I study Arabic more? My bad! [quote]About the finances, why does he need the money, doesn't he have his own job? Are financial problems causing a lot of friction, this could be a major, major issue.[/quote] It was a major, major issue...let's just say some fibs (about his finances) were said before marriage. He was going to school told me he had enough money from his family, it wouldn't be a problem. His family sent him enough money for him to support me. He wanted me to put my money in a bank account and just leave it. Told my mom he would take care of me, etc... Things didn't work out like that first all my money went, then he talked me into getting credit cards with the same (if you loved me you would do it.....) his car broke & has been using my car for the past 3 yrs. After talking me at first out of working because a Muslim woman should be at home, etc...he then turns around and says a woman should work & help her husband.All this time, I'm still telling my mom that he's taking care of me, I lied to her about him having his own car, I didn't want to talk bad about him or make her think anything bad about Islam. Well, finally it came to an end....with him & my mom. He had pressured me & I mean PRESSURED me to ask her for a loan for his school, he said if my MOM loved him...she would do it (my mom had met him once at this point). Of course, she said no, she can't afford it. Then the whole truth comes out to her.......wants to know why I'm living in an apt. instead of buying a house with my money and on and on and everythings all over with that. Finally his green card comes & he took out govt loans on his own. Yes, he did work after his work permit came the jobs are low-paying. What really got to me...was not about giving him money..I really don't mind share & share alike, I'm Muslim, but I'm also American and that's generally the way it works here . I believe in helping your husband when you can. It was the WAY it was done. None of it was done in an upfront Islamic way. And this isn't meant to be a big long complaint about him I have no problem forgiving people....it's just to clarify the situation. Reading what I've just written I can see that this would have been avoided by being honest from the get-go. I firmly believe that almost all these problems and any other problems we have in our marriage would be greatly minimized if we lived in an honest Islamic way. We could have been poor for awhile but at least OK spiritually. He graduated last December and has had zero luck with finding a good job. I've told him since December to pray for a good job. He outright REFUSES, can anybody tell me why??? I can't think of any possible reason why he wouldn't & he won't give one. I really feel like screaming "Are you nuts? Ask for Allah's help!" Weirdly enough & much to my happy suprise. I've found that instead of not liking Islam because of him....I'm pulled (it's almost like a physical thing in my heart) all the more strongly to it. It's like a living example that you SHOULD strive to live an Islamic life. Allah will help you, if you give Him the chance. Any tiny small lingering buried doubts I may have had...are gone. Lovely feeling...Thank God. I'm sorry for this really, really long post, I hope I didn't bore you too much. May Allah bless you for listening to me. P.S. I may go see my brother for a few days...I think I need to distance myself from this situation & just think with a clear head, I can check the board from there. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| jaihoon |
| 07/16/02 at 16:04:41 |
| [quote] Weirdly enough & much to my happy suprise. I've found that instead of not liking Islam because of him....I'm pulled (it's almost like a physical thing in my heart) all the more strongly to it. It's like a living example that you SHOULD strive to live an Islamic life. Allah will help you, if you give Him the chance. Any tiny small lingering buried doubts I may have had...are gone. Lovely feeling...Thank God. [/quote] that's nice to hear :) keep ur spirits high8br> |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| Kareema_Abdul-Khab |
| 07/17/02 at 03:30:19 |
| Oh, I'm glad to hear that the situation isn't to wear you are actually being outright banned, or fearing it, from doing any of your own Islamic activities I'm not saying that staying with him necessarily isn't jihadul-nafs, just that you should take a long, hard look at that, Allah knows best. Isn't Jummah prayer in some madhab only Sunnah, not Wajib?So if he still prays the zuhr, you might not have a case against him. are you sure that you know about how his finances truly are now? Or is an personal Worldcom lurking? Perhaps you could invite the iman/moderator over for dinner with your husband? Unwillingness to ask Allah(ta'ala) for help may be due to he believes he shouldn't ask for material things, or his deen may have reached the level where he believes the help of Allah is far from him.Does he seem depressed? There's a smoking thread named'Addicted' on this Naseeha Corner, you might visit it for some pointers. May Allah ta'ala bless you for your struggle and give you good in this world and the next. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| M.F. |
| 07/17/02 at 06:21:11 |
| [quote]Isn't Jummah prayer in some madhab only Sunnah, not Wajib? [/quote] I really doubt it because the order to go to Jumu'a is in the Qur'an in surat Al Jumu'a. And how could it be not wajib in one madhab, while missing 3 jumu'as is an act of Kufr for others? I've never heard of it being only sunnah before. |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| Marcie |
| 07/17/02 at 11:10:20 |
| [color=Teal] [slm] Sister, Please go and talk with an Imam. He will be able to help you see things more clearly. Unfortunately I have seen too many marriages where the husband gets what he wants and goes. :'( I can't speak for your marriage, because I'm not in it and I only see one side. I think that you need someone knowledgeable, who is not involved in the situation, to give you some advice. Insha'Allah your stay at your brothers will be restful. :) As salamu alaykum Marcie [/color] |
| 07/17/02 at 22:21:36 |
| Marcie |
| Re: So Confused, Marriage Beyond Repair? |
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| abc10 |
| 07/17/02 at 11:56:17 |
| Dear Brothers & Sisters, You know just writing here has helped a lot,I don't know if it's seeing everything I've felt written down in black & white or the fact that people are actually listening & helpful. It's lifted my depression over this a whole bunch :-* First thing I don't really want a divorce (been there, done that :()...but I want our marriage to a good one & to be blessed by Allah. So, I've decided on a new course of action & you guys can tell me what you think or add any ideas. Obviously, this current way isn't working with him, (being sad & endless discussion). So, I'm going to view this instead as a "quiet, loving, battleground" I don't know how else to put it. Try to view it as a challenge instead of getting depressed about it. First: I will go see my brother for a few days, maybe the shock of him coming home to any empty house for a few nites will make him see I'm serious. Second: Before I go away, I will do some things. I have a cassette of the Quran. I will put it in the car..so the first he hears when he turns it on is that. We have 3 Qurans in the house. I think I'll put one on his pillow with a note saying "Please read me" I'll put one on the TV saying the same thing. Maybe one near the coffee, since that's the 1st thing he goes for in the morning. Maybe if he can open the first page..the power of the words will "wake" him up a little. I could download some passages from the Quran in Arabic, print them out and tape them around the house, find an Islamic screensaver, I'm sure I'll think of more. Third: This is if the above fails utterly. I will go see the Imam, if he says "Alright divorce this guy, he's not praying, he's not coming to the Mosque every Friday, how's he going to be a good father (we don't currently have kids, but 1 day this could be a big issue),etc..." This is a last resort & even then if I went ahead that..I wouldn't file a civil American divorce right away. I would really be hoping that that would wake him up, but after the 3 months are up and if nothing changed, not even a glimpse of hope. I would really feel like I've done everything humanly possible. The following effects me more personally: I will go to the mosque, I will build relationships with my local Sisters, if they want to go to a local conference (there are some here where speakers come & talk about different issues) I will go. If he don't like it..too bad. From an Islamic standpoint I need to learn more and more. From a social standpoint I need some female companionship. It has been 3 yrs since I've had one single female friend. 2 1/2 yrs since I've seen my mom , I used to live close to her & we would go shopping, etc together. She is really my best friend and I need some of this back in my life. So, if they invite me for tea again I will go. This is not Egypt where you are surrounded by your "big" family and it's common to see your relatives on a daily basis. So, the next best thing here to make any friends is your Mosque. At least, you can be pretty darn positive they are not doing anything stupid like nightclubbing or drinking. Especially not with hijab on!!The sheer loneliness of the way I've been living is not tolerable to me any more, I really am at the breaking point here. What do you guys think? Are my ideas alright? I do value your opinions!I'm not going to see my brother for a few days yet. So any more suggestions would be appreciated.God Bless! |
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