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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Question for the "men" |
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| Ayla_A |
| 07/19/02 at 22:17:31 |
| [slm] I have a question that I would like to get a "man's" opinion on. How would any of you feel if your wife went to a family member to mediate a problem. I don't know the imam well enough to speak with him about this, and my husband is of the type that you keep problems "inside" the house. I have tried speaking to him on this subject, by using "proof" of my point of view and still no budging. I was thinking of emailing his brother-in-law - someone that he respects alot to help me with this issue. How would you react if your wife went to someone to help her in this situation? [wlm] Ayla_A |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| nouha |
| 07/20/02 at 10:21:32 |
| [slm] ok no men responded so its time for a women:), i just want to give a point here, u dont have to listen to me since u want a mans view, but i couldnt help but post it ;D there is nothign wrong in you asking a family member for help, they are still your family, the first person im thinking of is your mother, she has been there done that, and she is the one you can trust, i would think it would be easier to go to your own family member than his, becuase most likely his family member will go agaisnt what u want and with what he wants, it is always good to have someones from his side and someone from ur side come together to discuss the issue if it is that serious if u moved to ur husbands place after marraige, then ur husband must unerstand that u are in a new place where u dont know anyone and in a new situation (mariage) so he should expect problems my local imam actually said its better for a women to stay near her family after marraige, so if anything happens they are right there, this makes it easier if he beats u becuase u can go stay with a family member if the problem is either a haram/halal situation , then i would go to an imam regardless of if u know him or not, or how about going to www.islamqa.com ? (is this the right web addy) and ask ur question anonymously anyway just my two cents :) wasalam nouha:) |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| Kathy |
| 07/20/02 at 10:29:27 |
| [slm] I really hope some Brothers take the time to answer this question. It is so pertinent to so many women. How would you feel if your wife went to the Imam or a mediator and discussed your persnal business? ... and how much of this falls under a wife not divulding in her husbands mistakes? |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| ahmer |
| 07/20/02 at 12:10:35 |
| [slm] I am not sure if you want to discuss something about your husband. I haven't enjoyed the 'bliss' of married life but here is my 2 cents... I think that if the situation is at a level where outside intervention is the only way out, it's not only good but recommended, and on the other hand Allah says in the Quran about the husband and wife.. "They are your garments and ye are their garments." So without putting the integrity of personal life at stake, you can go ahead and try to solve it by talking to a family member. But you can never predict his reaction on this specially if you hubby doesnt want to discuss the issue with other people. So in essence, if there is no way out i guess going to his broinlaw is the best way. I don't see anything wrong in it.. Allahu Alam (but i would rather like the Imam to mediate in all this if he is a good imam..!! ) ma'salama ahmer |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| dirt |
| 07/20/02 at 12:56:47 |
| [slm] I am hesitant to answer this question for fear that I may give bad advice but I will answer as best I can. Knowing myself, I feel that I would probably be upset if my wife (if I had one) went outside our house to mediate a problem UNLESS (and this is a big unless).....unless the problem was of such a serious nature that there was no alternative for the woman. It really depends on the problem, it depends on how long we have been discussing the problem, it depends on a lot of factors. But I too like to be able to solve problems internally and I would feel almost betrayed if my wife went behind my back to solve a problem between us. I dunno, it just depends on the situation. Like nouha said, if it is a matter of deen and you know you are right, then whether I like the answer or not, in the end I would be happy (realistically though, probably not at first) to have a wife with the courage to do what is right. This is a tough call. [wlm] |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| mwishka |
| 07/20/02 at 13:45:21 |
| sorry sis ayla, another female voice....(more male voices will show up soon, i'm sure.... this is what i think is important in this particular situation.... [i]I don't know the imam well enough to speak with him[/i] about this, and my husband is of the type that you [i]keep problems "inside" the house[/i]. I have [i]tried speaking to him on this subject, by using "proof" of my point of view and still no budging[/i]. I was thinking of emailing his brother-in-law - [i]someone that he respects[/i] alot to help me with this issue. sister ayla, i commend you on the way you have not only gone about working with your husband, but on what you have told about the situation in seeking other male opinions. you have told us 1)you are not comfortable enough to approach your imam - which addresses the usual advice anyone might give to you. 2) you have tried to consider your husband's point of view in problem-solving. 3) you have made reasonable and informed efforts to communicate with your husband. 4) he is being resistant to reason. 5) in your concern to solve the problem WITH him, you have suggested only asking advice of someone he knows and respects. it seems to me that you have made the best possible choices in this situation, and are not in any way compromising your love, respect, honor, or sense of duty to your husband in seeking this help. i would hope that he, too, would applaud the considerateness and thought fulness of your approach. the only thing i would like to add, though, is that it seems you [i]should[/i] have someone such as an imam available to you for such assistance when you need it. so, is there another close-by community which has an imam you might be more comfortable with? or, perhaps, if this matter is of such a nature, might the wife of your own imam might be someone you could go to? i think it would help you, if you plan to remain living where you are now, to find someone like this with whom you ARE comfortable, and establish a close ebough relationship that you would always feel you have a place to turn, and would not ever have to wonder if you were doing the right thing. hope this all works out smoothly. mwishka |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| BrKhalid |
| 07/20/02 at 20:02:55 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Sr Ayla can I ask whether this problem is of an Islamic nature? If it is, do you hold what you believe to be the correct view and your husband does not? I don't want to go into specifics but just wanted to get an idea of the type of problem we have here. I think the answer (as has been said by people above) depends a lot on this. |
| 07/20/02 at 20:05:12 |
| BrKhalid |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| Ayla_A |
| 07/20/02 at 20:41:12 |
| [slm] Thanks for all the replies so far. Nouha - my family is not muslim, so this is not a possiblity to include them in this discussion, though it is partly because of them that we are having this issue. Thanks God it is not an issue of abuse or anything haram. Thanks Mwishka. I know that I must find someone that I trust in this manner. Insha'allah I can find someone locally that my husband respects as well. Br. Khalid - yes it is of an islamic manner. I have found hadith/fatwa but nothing from the quran that exactly deals with this matter. What I have found I have brought to his attention, normally this is something that works very well for both of us on many issues that comes from marriage, this time it does not seem to be having the effect that it usually does. This is why I wanted to bring in another "party" to the discussion, someone who is not passionite about this issue [wlm] :-) Ayla_A :-) |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| BrKhalid |
| 07/22/02 at 04:54:18 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) I would have thought if you had approached this third party without first discussing it with your husband, he might feel pretty hurt. But then again, maybe you need to go to these lengths? Alternatively discuss it with him and suggest you want to talk it through with someone else because you feel very strongly about the issue and see how he reacts. Unfortunately I don't think there are any easy answers. |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| mustafas_baba |
| 07/22/02 at 14:59:16 |
| [slm] Ayla Just to voice one more brother's opinion(afterall, it is the IKHWAN healthclub, right? ;) ). I agree with Br.Khalid that you should discuss, 'discussing' this problem with anyone else, with your husband before proceeding. Men are very big on the confidentiality of problems in their lives. I myself, being a married person, have a very solid understanding with my wife that we will not discuss our issues with others at all. Unless ofcourse its something that is bordering on Divorce, I think you should refrain from doing that. Usually, more then anything else, what would happen is that the IMAGE and RESPECT of the relationship you guys have amongst each other will be viewed a little differently by others. This is something that your husband will probably not want, ESPECIALLY from someone he respects a lot! So unless its something that both of you agree to get mediation on from an agreed upon person, I would say keep it between yourselves. Ofcourse, if there is some danger to your health or safety, then thats a different story. I am giving my advice under the assumption that its simply a disagreement that the two of you have on some issue in your life. For that, its best to keep it between yourselves and sort it out. Men, in general, do not disucss their problems with their buddies while out playing basketball etc :D, and in this regard they are very different from women. So you can probably see a significant divide in the opinions you're getting right here as well. The sisters are saying go for it, while the brothers are either telling you to be cautious or dont do it at all. |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| siddiqui |
| 07/22/02 at 15:33:56 |
| [slm] I generally feel that men feel let down by the spouses when the "dirty laundary "is washed in public in real or its just an apparent illusion Men are 'macho' hide their feelings inside and consider they can handle everything But I personally feel that once there is a break down of communication and there is no means of seeing a light at the end of the tunnel the couple needs a another person to shine a flash light and remind them to evaluate what ones priorities in life are If there is a mediator who should it be a man or a woman? A another man is not a very good idea for men think that there esteem has come down if another man advices him how to run his family A lady - a man is kind of embarrased when the family problems come out in front of his inlaw , cauz his good image goes down The best person would be his sister or mom if he is close to them to put things indirectly to him for he dosent like things to be direct when he is on the receiving end. The key is tp determine when to seek help,please exhuast all possible avenues of direct communication.cajoling, and yes sometimes manupulation (In a nice way) too ;) Please dont forget the best mediator of all Pray to Allah swt to mend things between you too I would request you to kindly reconsider talking to his bro inlaw ,Its not adviseable to talk about 'family matters ' to a non mahram and to man who he likes and respects dearly ( falling from grace philosophy) May Allah swt help you and all of us Ameen [wlm] |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| haaris |
| 07/23/02 at 10:11:20 |
| [slm] Sister, I do not wish merely to reiterate all the good advice that the brothers and sisters have already given and so will confine myself to your question: [quote]How would any of you feel if your wife went to a family member to mediate a problem.[/quote] Fine, provided that: 1. She had discussed it with me and we had agreed to do so; and 2. I was confident as to the knowledge/qualifications of the family member in question in relation to the issue at hand. Now, I'm probably being an overly pedantic lawyer here (yeah, I know, most unlike me!) but you use the term "mediation". Generally this term is applied to the process whereby a third party tries to find "middle ground" between two opposing perspectives. It is not concerned with who is right / wrong but only with finding a "deal" with which both parties can live. It is important to know what you are looking for. If you are looking for someone to confirm or deny the validity and applicability of the "hadith / fatwa" that you have uncovered, then mediation may not do this and an approach such as jointly drafting a submission to something like Islamic QA may be better. If, on the other hand, there are two equally valid points of view or you wish to achieve "any" result within a given framework then perhaps mediation would be better suited. I apologise for having strayed from your original point. Salaam |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| eleanor |
| 07/25/02 at 02:13:59 |
| [slm] I just wanted to add that in my case, I know for a fact that my husband would literally rather die than bring in a third party to mediate between us. If it was a case of saving the marriage, then yes, I can understand it; but if you feel like you can live with this, then I'd leave it. Allahu Ahlam wasalaam eleanor |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| AyeshaZ |
| 07/25/02 at 14:24:24 |
| [quote author=eleanor link=board=bro;num=1027131452;start=0#12 date=07/25/02 at 02:13:59] [slm] I just wanted to add that in my case, I know for a fact that my husband would literally rather die than bring in a third party to mediate between us. If it was a case of saving the marriage, then yes, I can understand it; but if you feel like you can live with this, then I'd leave it. Allahu Ahlam wasalaam eleanor[/quote] I truly believe that the third party should not be brought in unless as the sis/bros stated it is divorce or something serious of that nature. I have seen with my own eyes someone very close to me inviting other *close* family members and the thing turning out to be a total mess. Insha'Allah May Allah(swt) guide you to take the right decision and protect your marriage. ameen JazakumAllahu khair |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| Ayla_A |
| 07/25/02 at 20:59:56 |
| [slm] Thank you all for your great advice:) At least I know now not to go to his bil with this. I know he has been discussing a little bit of it with his sister, so insha'allah she will ask me about it. Again I don't know if we are any closer to solving the issue or not, but at least I know what "not" to do Again thanks so much everyone [wlm] :-) Ayla_A :-) |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| UmmAbdulRahman |
| 07/26/02 at 04:04:59 |
| [slm] I haven't gotten a chance to read through all of the replies to this post so I apologize if my thoughts are a little off track. I have gone to the imam at the local masjid here a few times with marital issues- without my husbands consent- and it has helped my marriage tremendously. Sometimes, the imam offers me personal advice and other times, if he feels the need to speak to my husband himself, he calls him or even comes to our home-and talks to him alone or the both of us together. I never thought of asking my husband first about what he thought about talking to an "outsider" about our problems because I understand that this is my right in Islam. Didn't women go to the prophet [saw] and complain of some characteristics of their husbands? The prophet [saw] intervened and advised the husbands towards kinder relations with their wives and families or he helped to solve the problem through some other form of intervention. La Hayaa fid din. When marriage problems reach a point where they are seriously dividing the husband and wife, both of them should put aside their embarassment, anger, or whatever emotions they might be feeling- and solve the problems while consciously aware of the fact that marriage makes up half their din. Also, many of the imams in our masajid are so insightful and knowledgeable, mashaAllah, that just talking to them can relieve so much stress that marriages can bring. I don't think that our communities utilize enough of this wealth of knowledge and resources that can be found in our imams. We need to develop a dialogue with our leaders and learn from them and trust them. |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| muqaddar |
| 08/04/02 at 17:33:05 |
| [slm] Unless she has already discussed it with her husband and feels that it is such a major issue (level of divorce) then I would completely sympathise with any bloke who divorced his wife for telling their private secrets to other people. actually a while back i heard of some bloke who not being too aware of islamic guidelines didn't shave his hair and the girl told her parents after the wedding night! that guys name is now a joke in my local area |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| EdisonShi |
| 08/07/02 at 23:44:06 |
| If I were to invite someone else into my spouses issues I would get consent from my spouse first. As a Man, opening up to anyone is not easy. That's one of the beaties of having a mate. For the first time you get to relax and be yourself with someone so special. If I felt (even unreasonably so) that my spouse was opening my trust with her to someone else I would be hurt. If however it is causing such a serious issue and we can come to know agreement (even one that allows us to just leave it alone for a while) I would consent to the Imam, before a family member. Just one man's opinion. I think age plays apart as well. As a younger man I was more sensitive to myself and as I'm growing I'm, thankfully becoming more sensitive to others and less concerned about my own issues. Doubt that helps any. Pretty personal question, so my answer can't take into account all of yours and your Husbands personality traits. Plus I'm in another forum asking for help meeting Women. ;) ;D |
| muqaddar |
| 08/08/02 at 17:42:59 |
| [slm] *shocked* :o :o your never ABSOLUTELY honest and open with any woman...! you try telling a woman the clothes that suited her at 16 no longer suit her at 25.... and get ready for more stripes than a tiger akhi.. she'll turn into a bandri and flying kick you outta the house ! You agree with whatever they say and then suggest something and make it seem like it's their idea... *guru muqaddar nods sagely* |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| se7en |
| 08/09/02 at 00:06:06 |
| as salaamu alaykum, [quote]your never ABSOLUTELY honest and open with any woman...! [/quote] I don't think it's about honesty, but just about being *considerate* of the other person's feelings, especially if you know the other person is sensitive (which, hate to break it to ya guys, most women are :)).. and I think you can still be honest without saying something in a mean or blunt way. About your wife drop kicking you out of the house for something you've said/done.. this is actually in your favor :) because you've learned that it's a sensitive area for her and inshaAllah you won't do it again. Otherwise, if she just keeps it bottled up inside, you'll continue doing things to hurt her and never know. So count your blessings when you're out on the curb ;) hehehe wasalaamu alaykum :-) ps sorry for derailing the thread :) |
| 08/09/02 at 00:09:39 |
| se7en |
| Re: Question for the "men" |
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| muqaddar |
| 08/10/02 at 14:37:35 |
| [quote author=se7en link=board=bro;num=1027131452;start=15#19 date=08/09/02 at 00:06:06]as salaamu alaykum, I don't think it's about honesty, but just about being *considerate* of the other person's feelings, especially if you know the other person is sensitive (which, hate to break it to ya guys, most women are :)).. and I think you can still be honest without saying something in a mean or blunt way. [/quote] Well put se7en :-[ my fragile ego can sure take a beating cause it's male ...promise i won't cry :'( [quote] About your wife drop kicking you out of the house for something you've said/done.. this is actually in your favor :) because you've learned that it's a sensitive area for her and inshaAllah you won't do it again. Otherwise, if she just keeps it bottled up inside, you'll continue doing things to hurt her and never know. [/quote] wife ... who said anything about a wife ?!...what ?! where ?!... ;D ;D actually i was talking about the Bandri sitting in the cage with me cooking banana soup [quote] So count your blessings when yo[/quote] and your bruises.... wasalaamu alaykum :-) ps sorry for derailing the thread :) [/quote] ditto |
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