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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| How do women pray? |
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| Anonymous |
| 07/23/02 at 13:33:37 |
| Assalamu Alikum I've been praying my daily prayers for a while now (alhamdulillah), but I'm now worried I've been reading them in a wrong manner. My mother thinks I read it like a man & not a women. So my question is if there is a difference? I've looked over the internet pages on how to pray but can't seem to find any specific ones for women. I know that men place there hands below their navel and women on their chest, but when you go down for sujood, how do you place your feet? 1. Is the toes supposed to face the direction of kabbah as well, or can you neatly put them underneath u? (my mother thinks by bottom sticks out when I position myself with toes out in front) :) 2. I usually place my arms near my legs whlst in sujood but not touching the floor. Is this correct or should they touch the floor? Look forward to hearing your suggestions. JazaakaAllah Khair. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/23/02 at 15:25:42 |
| Salam alaikum sis, There is no difference in the way men and women are supposed to pray. Your toes should face the qibla while in sajood, and your arms should be out to your sides, not touching your body and not touching the ground. Both men and women should have their hands on their chests while standing. If you need me to find the hadiths to back up what I just said, just let me know and inshaAllah Ill find them and post them. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Barraa |
| 07/23/02 at 17:01:22 |
| Sister Fatimah you are right. There is no difference. And in Mughrib, Fajr, and Isha prayer you must read aloud, in the other prayers you only say allahu akbar aloud. and if it is sunnah prayer you could read quietly and if its night prayer your praying you could read however you wish. and you must copy the prayer of the imam unless he made a mistake women clap and the men say "allahu albar" Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The Imam is to be followed. Say the Takbir when he says it; bow if he bows; if he says 'Sami a-l-lahu Liman hamida', say, ' Rabbana wa-laka-l-hamd', prostrate if he prostrates and pray sitting altogether if he prays sitting." Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: I saw that whenever Allah's Apostle stood for the prayer, he used to raise both his hands up to the shoulders, and used to do the same on saying the Takbir for bowing and on raising his head from it and used to say, "Sami a-l-lahu Liman hamida". But he did not do that (i.e. raising his hands) in prostrations. Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd: The people were ordered to place the right hand on the left forearm in the prayer. Abu Hazim said, "I knew that the order was from the Prophet ." and you musn't look towards the sky in prayer Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, "What is wrong with those people who look towards the sky during the prayer?" His talk grew stern while delivering this speech and he said, "They should stop (looking towards the sky during the prayer); otherwise their eye-sight would be taken away." and always recite surat al fatiha Narrated 'Ubada bin As-Samit: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever does not recite Al-Fatiha in his prayer, his prayer is invalid." Narrated Abu Ma'mar: I asked Khabbab whether the Prophet used to recite the Qur'an in the Zuhr and the 'Asr prayers. He replied in the affirmative. We said, "How did you come to know that?" He said, "From the movement of his beard." Narrated Abu Huraira: The Qur'an is recited in every prayer and in those prayers in which Allah's Apostle recited aloud for us, we recite aloud in the same prayers for you; and the prayers in which the Prophet recited quietly, we recite quietly. If you recite "Al-Fatiha" only it is sufficient but if you recite something else in addition, it is better. i hope that helped you sister. sister fatimah you don't really need that much back up because most of what you said is here. so you weren't wrong. and there is no difference between the male and the females prayer. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Aurora |
| 07/23/02 at 19:04:39 |
| Hmmm, I've been taught that women pray differently than men, the differences are small, but they are there, i.e. placement of hands, feet, and the like. I have a book titled Taleemul Haq, and it has a chapter describing the differences, as soon as I get a chance i'll type it out for you, inshaAllah. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/23/02 at 22:54:03 |
| Salam alaikum, I have read about this topic before, but now I am looking it up again. I really like to go by Quran and the authentic sunnah, then by what the scholars say. So, what I have found is that there are no authentic reports by the Prophet [saw] or his Sahabah that says women pray differently than men. So thats what I like to go by.. (I do know that some sheikhs say there is a difference, but Ive never seen them give evidence on that difference.) I may be wrong. Allahu Alim. What I have found (I feel most comfortable with the last one) Allahu Alim: Question: Is there any prove from the Sunnah or ijtihad of the Sahaba that the praying (salat) of a woman is on some points different from the man, like it is in the Hanafi madhhab? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. The general principle is that women are equal to men in all religious rulings, because of the hadeeth "Women are the twin halves of men" (Reported by Imaam Ahmad and classified as saheeh in Saheeh al-Jaami’ 1983), except when there is evidence (daleel) of a specific ruling which applies only to women. One of the cases in which the scholars mention specific rules for women is prayer, where there are differences as follows: Women do not have to give adhaan or iqaamah, because adhaan requires raising the voice, which women are not permitted to do. Ibn Qudaamah, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: "We know of no difference between the scholars (on this point)." (Al-Mughni ma’a al-Sharh al-Kabeer, 1/438). All of the woman’s body is ‘awrah and must be covered during prayer, except for her face, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "No prayer will be accepted from an adult woman unless she wears a khimaar (head-cover). (Reported by the five Muhadditheen) There is some dispute as to whether her heels and feet should be covered. The author of al-Mughni (2/328) said: "As for the rest of the free woman’s body, it must be covered during prayer. If any part becomes uncovered, it renders her prayer invalid, except if only a little bit is uncovered. Maalik, al-Oozaa’i and al-Shaafi’i said the same. The woman should keep her limbs close to her body during rukoo’ and sujood, and not spread them out, because this is more modest and covering. (Al-Mughni 2/258). Al-Nawawi said: "Al-Shaafi’i said, in al-Mukhtasar: there is no difference between men and women in prayer, except that women should keep the parts of their bodies close to one another, and they should make their stomachs touch their thighs during sujood. This is more covering and preferable, in rukoo’ and the rest of the prayer too." (See al-Majmoo’ 3/429). It is preferable for women to pray in congregation, led by one of their number, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told Umm Waraqah to lead the women of her household in prayer. There is some difference among scholars on this matter. (See al-Mughni, 2/202 and al-Majmoo’ al-Nawawi, 4/84-85). The woman leading the prayer should read aloud as long as no non-mahram man can hear her. It is permissible for women to go out and pray in the mosque with men, although their prayer at home is better for them, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Do not prevent the women from going out to the mosques, even though their homes are better for them." (For more details on this matter, see Question#973). Imaam al-Nawawi, may Allaah have mercy on him, said (al-Majmoo’ 3/455): "Women differ from men in congregational prayer in a number of ways: (1) Congregational prayer is not required of them in the same way as it is of men. (2) The imam of a group of women stands in the middle of the (first) row. (3) (If one woman and one man are praying), she should stand behind him, not next to him. (4) If women are praying in rows behind men, the back rows are better for them than the front rows. What we can learn from the above is that women and men are forbidden to mix. Allaah is our Helper and Support. Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q After being criticized on the way I prayed my salat by women from different schools of thought whose criticism often contradicted one another, I began to read numerous books and ahadith on phe performance of salat. In studying, I learned that the person who had taught my mother to pray by dictating the prayer for her to write down had left out the tashahhud! I thought that I had finally learned salat correctly, but when I performed the salat with an Afghan woman, she sharply admonished me that I was praying like a man, and she said that women should not straighten their backs on bowing, point their right toes to the qiblah in tashahhud, etc. The books that I had read made no differentiation between men and women in the performance of salat except the extent of clothing. Insha-Allah, could you provide me with the correct way for a woman to pray? A. The general principle is that every act of the prayer of women is exactly the same as the prayer of men unless there is some clear proof showing otherwise. In fact, the general principle is that the laws for women are exactly the same as those for men unless there is proof showing otherwise. There is a difference of opinion among the scholars with respect to the manner in which a woman is supposed to perform the prayer. Some say that she should keep her body close together and not spread it out like men do in the prayer. However, there are no authentic reports from the Prophet (peace be upon him) stating that. There does not seem to be anything authentic of this nature from the Companions either. There are, though, some reports from the Followers stating that the woman does not extend herself in the prayer the way that men do. Such authentic reports have come from Mamar, Qatada, Ata and Ibrahim al-Nakhai. (Such reports may be found in the Musannafs of ibn Abu Shaiba and Abdul Razzaq al-Sanani.) In Sunan al-Kubra (vol. 2, p. 222), al-Baihaqi states that this revolves around the fact that women are supposed to remained covered or, that is, not expose themselves. Perhaps the best way to resolve this dispute and Allah knows best is to say that when women are not praying in the presence of non-related men, then they should pray in exactly the same manner as men. However, if there are men present, in the same way that the scholars say that she should then cover her face during the prayer, then she should not pray in that fashion. Instead of extending her body in the bowing, prostration, sitting and so forth, she should keep her body close together and not expose herself to men who may see her. There are other differences between the prayer of men and women, although they are not concerned with the manner of performing the prayer as such. These include the following: (1) Women are not commanded to make the adhan or iqama like men are. Furthermore, if there are men present, they should not give the adhan or iqama. However, among a group of only women, they may make the adhan and iqama if they wish. (2) Obviously, the aurah or the parts of the body that must be covered in the prayer is different for that of men and women. When praying by herself or among women, the most common opinion concerning the aurah of the woman is that she must cover all of her body for the prayer with the exception of her face and hands. If her feet should become uncovered, there seems to be no strong evidence that this invalidates her prayer. However, it is better and safer for her to cover her feet. Furthermore, in the presence of non-related men, she should cover all of herself in the prayer. (3) When praying in a congregation of women only, the female Imam stands in the middle of the first row and does not stand ahead of the rows by herself. Such has been authentically narrated from the acts of Aisha and Umm Salama. (4) When the Imam makes a mistake in a congregational prayer, men would correct him by saying, Subhanallah, while women would correct him by clapping (some describe it as clapping the palm of one hand against the back of the other). This is confirmed in well-known hadith. (5) It is neither obligatory or recommended for women to pray in the mosques. Instead, the prayers they perform in their homes are the best. Furthermore, when praying in the mosque, they are supposed to get up and leave as soon as the prayer is finished, as was the custom during the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him)ó as narrated by Umm Salama and recorded in Sahih al-Bukhari. This was in order to avoid any mixing between the men and women in the mosque or outside the mosque after the prayer. (6) In the congregational prayer, the best rows for the women are the back rows while the best rows for them are the front rows. Many argue that this is best because she is further away from men. Hence, they also say that if she is not in the view of the men, then, the best rows for her becomes the front rows, as al-Nawawi stated in his commentary to Sahih Muslim. (7) The Friday Prayer is not obligatory upon women. If a woman performs the Friday Prayer, then she does not pray the Dhuhr Prayer. QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY JAMAAL ZARABOZO --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud Deen Al Albaanee says: All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet's prayer (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), "Pray as you have seen me praying", includes women. This is the view of Ibraaheem an-Nakh'i, who said, "A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's" - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him. Also, Bukhaari reported in at-Taareekh as-Sagheer (p. 95) with a saheeh sanad from Umm ad-Dardaa', "that she used to sit in her prayer just as a man sits, and she was a woman of understanding." The hadeeth about the indimaam (tucking up) of a woman in prostration, and that she is in that regard not like a man, is mursal and not authentic. Abu Daawood transmitted it in al- Maraaseel on the authority of Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb. As for what Imaam Ahmad has reported, as in his son 'Abdullaah's Masaa'il, from Ibn 'Umar, that he used to instruct his wives to sit cross-legged in prayer, its sanad is not authentic, for it contains 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar al-'Amri, who is a da'eef (weak) narrator. |
| NS |
| 07/29/02 at 20:01:22 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/23/02 at 22:58:12 |
| [slm] By the way, I really recommend reading this book about salat. Its really good! You can read it online here: http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Aurora |
| 07/24/02 at 16:30:35 |
| Unfortunately upon searching I realized I had lent my book which discussed these matters to a friend. So to help 'anonymous' out I found this 'article' on Mufti Desai's website ( http://www.askimam.com ) The direct link to my copy/paste is http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=3242 [quote]In the Shariat, although certain forms of Ibaadat (worship) are done both by men and women, yet the manner in which these forms of Ibaadat are fulfilled differ. This is especially apparent in Salaat. Many postures of the Salaat of women differ to that of men in order to maintain the very important principle of modesty and concealment. Many narrations substantiate this fact. Hadhrat Abdullah bin Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "When a woman sits in Salaat, she should place the thighs (of one leg) upon the other and when she makes sajdah, she should attach her belly to her thigh so that it is as concealing as possible. For indeed Allah Ta'ala looks at her saying: 'O my angels I make you witness that I have indeed forgiven her'." (Baihaqi Vol.2 Pg.223) Waail bin Hujr (Radhiallaahu Anhu) says that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "O Waail, when you commence the Salaat, lift your hands in line with your ears and women should (only) lift it in line with the chest (shoulders)." (Kanzul Umaal Vol.7 Pg.307) In another narration, it is stated that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) passed by two women who were performing Salaat. He said: "When you make sajdah, attach your body to the ground. Indeed women are not like men in this matter." (i.e. they differ in the posture of sajdah). (Maraasil of Imaam Abu Dawood (R.A)) The Imaams of all four Mazaahib (schools of thought) attest to the differences between the Salaat of men and women. Thus, we will now discuss a few aspects pertaining exclusively to the Salaat of women. * Before commencing the Salaat, a woman must ensure that besides her face and wrists, all other parts of her body should be concealed. Some women perform Salaat with their hair exposed, others with their ears exposed, while the forearms of others are completely open. Some wear such a thin (see-through) burqa' (head covering) that the hair can be seen through it. All this is incorrect and not permissible * If any limb, besides the face and wrists are exposed for the duration it takes to read thrice, the Salaat will be rendered null and void. If it is exposed less than that, the Salaat will be valid. However it will be makrooh and she will be sinful. * It is best for women to perform Salaat in a place that is most concealing. Thus to perform Salaat in an inner room of the house will be better than performing it in the front room or lounge etc. Similarly performing the Salaat in the lounge will be preferred to performing it in the courtyard of the house. * Whilst saying the Takbeer-a-Tahrima (Allahu Akbar), women will only lift their hands till the shoulders and not till the ears like men. They will lift the hands under the burqa (veil). They should not take their hands out of the burqa. * Women will put their hands on the chest by placing the palm of the right hand over the back of the left wrist. The fingers should be kept close together. Women will not adopt the method of men in placing of the hands. (Tahtawi Pg.141) * Women should stand with both feet close together. There should be no gap between the two feet. In ruku also, the same position of the feet should be maintained. (Bahishti Zewar & Mufti Taqi Uthmani) * First make the intention, then say Allahu Akbar. Thereafter place the hands on the chest. Then read Thanaa, A'uzu, and Bismillah after which you will commence with Surah Fateha. On completing Surah Fateha, say A'meen. After that, read Bismillah again and read a Surah. After completing the Surah, say Allahu Akbar and go into ruku. * A woman should only bend so much in ruku that she is able to place the hands on the knees. Women will not make ruku like men by straightening the back. Their bending for ruku should be less than that of men. Place both hands on the knees while keeping the fingers closed together. Do not spread the fingers apart. (Tahtawi Pg.141 & Bahishti Zewar) * Keep the forearms close to the sides and keep the ankles together in ruku. (Ibid) * In ruku, women will not keep the feet completely upright, but rather they will bend the knees slightly forward. (Shaami & Mufti Taqi Uthmani) * Read three or five times in ruku. Ensure that the 'dh' is pronounced correctly. * After saying , lift the head and stand with ease and read or * Sahih Muslim * Women will make sajdah in such a way that the belly will touch the thighs and the forearms will touch the sides. The forearms will be placed on the ground. Bahishti Zewar * Place the head between the hands in sajdah. Place the forehead and the nose on the ground. The fingers should be kept close together, facing the Qibla. The thumb should also face the Qibla. * In sajdah both feet will be placed on the ground facing the right. The feet should not be kept upright. However, the toes should face the Qibla. should be read three or five times. * Thereafter say Allahu Akbar and sit with ease. Sit on the left posterior with both feet protruding to the right. Place the right thigh on the left thigh and the right shin on the left one. (Tahtawi Bahishti Zewar) * Place both hands on the thighs with the fingers closed together. This is the method for women. In ruku, sajdah and qa'adah, the fingers will be kept close together without any gap in between, while the law for men is that in ruku they will keep the fingers apart and in sajdah they will keep it closed together. In all the other postures, the fingers will be kept in their natural position. * In jalsah the following duaa should be read, whether parforming a fardh, sunnah or nafl Salaat. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) used to read this duaa. (Tirmizi & Abu Dawood & Haakim) * Thereafter the second sajdah should be made in the same manner as the first sajdah was done. Thereafter stand up whilst saying Allahu Akbar. Do not take support with the hands while standing up. Then read Bismillah and Surah Fateha. Upon ending Surah Fateha, say A'ameen. Thereafter Bismillah and a Surah will be read. (Behishti Zewar) * Sit in the qa'adah posture after completing two raka'ats. The manner of sitting is the same as that of jalsah. Read At-Tahiyat and when reaching Ash-hadu-al laailaaha illallaahu, join the small and ring finger and and attach their tips to the palms and form a ring with the middle finger and the thumb. Lift the index finger, indicating to the oneness of Allah Ta'ala. Drop the index finger when reaching illallaahu. However the other fingers will remain as is * If it is a Salaat of two raka'at, then maintain this posture till the end. Read the Salawaat (durood) and duaa and thereafter make salaam. If it is a Salaat of four raka'at, stand up immediately after completing the At-Tahiyaat. * In the third and fourth raka'at also, read Bismillah before commencing Surah Fateha. If it is a Fardh Salaat, go into ruku after completing Surah Fateha. However in the Witr, Sunnat or Nafl Salaat one will read a Surah after Surah Fateha. * After completing the final qa'adah, say the salaam while turning the head towards the right. Commence the salaam with the face in the direction of the Qibla. Complete the salaam when the face is fully turned to the right. Then bring the face back towards the Qibla and commence the second salaam from there. Turn the face towards the left as you say the second salaam. Do not commence the second salaam whilst the head is turned towards the right. Face the Qibla, then commence the second salaam. Whilst making both the salaams, make the intention of greeting the angels. * It is Makrooh (reprehensible) for women to perform Salaat in jamaat (congregation). They should perform their Salaat individually. However if the Mahram males (i.e. those men with whom one cannot get married eg. brothers, father, grandfather etc.) are performing Salaat with jamaat in the house, a woman can join that jamaat. She will stand behind the men. She should not stand in line with the men. (Mufti Taqi Uthmaani) Women should read their five daily Salaat, Taraweeh and Witr Salaat individually. It is Maakrooh Tahrimi for them to perform Salaat with jamaat. (Shaami Vol.1 Pg.418 & Fataawa Rahimia Vol.1 Pg.347) Shaykhul Hadith Mawlana Fadhlur Rahmaan Saheb Kindly refer to www.alinaam.org.za/library/scorrect18.htm and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best Mufti Ebrahim Desai FATWA DEPT. [/quote] |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Kathy |
| 07/24/02 at 20:45:19 |
| [wlm] ..and I found this! [code] Differences in women and mens salat http://www.troid.org/jan/aretherediffereces.htm Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud Deen Al Albaanee says: All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet's prayer (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), "Pray as you have seen me praying", includes women. This is the view of Ibraaheem an-Nakh'i, who said, "A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's" - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him. Also, Bukhaari reported in at-Taareekh as-Sagheer (p. 95) with a saheeh sanad from Umm ad-Dardaa', "that she used to sit in her prayer just as a man sits, and she was a woman of understanding." The hadeeth about the indimaam (tucking up) of a woman in prostration, and that she is in that regard not like a man, is mursal and not authentic. Abu Daawood transmitted it in al- Maraaseel on the authority of Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb. As for what Imaam Ahmad has reported, as in his son 'Abdullaah's Masaa'il, from Ibn 'Umar, that he used to instruct his wives to sit cross-legged in prayer, its sanad is not authentic, for it contains 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar al-'Amri, who is a da'eef (weak) narrator [/code] Ok gang... i am getting mighty uncomfortable with this thread... because we are hearing so many conflicting ideas. Much of what Shaykhul Hadith Mawlana Fadhlur Rahmaan Saheb said, I have never heard. -[i] (Doesn't mean it is wrong tho!!)[/i] I am kinda wishin someone will clear up all of this! |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/24/02 at 21:53:11 |
| [slm] Sister Kathy, give me a day and Ill have a good reply to this post inshaAllah. It sounded very strange to me. I am going through that fatwa from Shaykhul Hadith Mawlana Fadhlur Rahmaan Saheb, with the help of my husband. I have many authentic hadith that goes against what he is saying. I will also have my husband call a well known sheikh here inshaAllah just to make sure. Just give me a little time inshaAllah. Wa Allahu Alim |
| 07/24/02 at 21:54:10 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| bhaloo |
| 07/24/02 at 21:57:19 |
| [slm] Mufti Desai is of the hanafi school of thought. So it maybe a difference in the way different schools follow. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| jannah |
| 07/25/02 at 01:15:02 |
| [slm] There is a difference of opinion on this subject. Some like Sh. Albaani says there is no difference between the prayer of a woman and man's. Others say there is and the school's of thought have differences in the details of this as well. I guess everyone can post all the different viewpoints which are probably very diverse and every opinion possible. The better route would be for everyone to go with their madhab/imam or knowledgable person they trust. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Shahida |
| 07/25/02 at 05:55:51 |
| [slm] I agree with Jannah...consult your particular Imaam about this issue! BUT it is essential also to read what other scholars have written, so that when you see a woman praying "differently" to you, you do not automatically assume that she is wrong... I just have to highlight one statement that worries me immensely, and may Allah forgive me, but this REALLY worries me... [color=Red] It is Makrooh (reprehensible) for women to perform Salaat in jamaat (congregation). They should perform their Salaat individually. However if the Mahram males (i.e. those men with whom one cannot get married eg. brothers, father, grandfather etc.) are performing Salaat with jamaat in the house, a woman can join that jamaat. She will stand behind the men. She should not stand in line with the men. (Mufti Taqi Uthmaani)[/color] No offense to the sheikh, but pray tell, were all the women who stood in prayer behind our Prophet (s.a.w.s) his Mahram? Do you have to be the Imaam's relative in order to pray behind him? Are we only allowed to pray "in jamaat" in our homes? It is not my intention to start bashing the Imaams, but I have major problems with this...sorry. Wasalam, let me go before I say something worse... Shahida :-) |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Kashif |
| 07/25/02 at 06:55:37 |
| assalaamu alaikum Thanks for pointing that out sr. Shahida, i missed that on my first reading. It seems like only one of a number of things that seem incorrect in the article authored by the brother mufti. It contradicts a clear permission given by the Messenger of Allah alaihis-salaatu was-salaam on allowing women to go to the masjid. And it doesn't sound correct that he would say concerning a disliked matter: "Do not prevent the female servants of Allah from visiting the mosques of Allah, but they may go out (to the mosque) having no perfumed themselves." [Abu Dawood 2:565] Also, there are several references made to a book of dubious authenticity named Bahishti Zewar. The Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallams command is so simple "Pray as you have seen me praying." Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 07/25/02 at 07:39:18 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) I have to admit, I read that passage in the context of women praying in congregation at home and not in relation to the Masjid. Hence, the meaning I took was that the scholar was saying if a group of women were *at home*, then it was better for them to pray individually rather than in congregation between themselves (no men involved) I can understand though how the line: [quote]It is Makrooh (reprehensible) for women to perform Salaat in jamaat (congregation). [/quote] Could be misinterpreted to mean not coming to the Masjid to pray. As ever Allah knows best. Wasalaam Br Khalid |
| 07/25/02 at 07:40:44 |
| BrKhalid |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/25/02 at 10:28:55 |
| [slm] If it were makrooh (disliked-not recommended) for women to pray together in jamaa'ah, then why would the Prophet [saw] agree to it like is shown in the following hadiths? Also, why would so many sahabah women do it if it were makrooh? In this fatwa that I found..its saying it is mustahab (loved-recommended) for them to do it. I think this is correct because of the hadiths that support this opinion. I am still going through the earlier fatwa and I am finding out that some of the hadith used in it are weak. InshaAllah Ill post when I finish. I dont think questioning a fatwa is imam bashing. I respect all of these fatwas and the ones who said them. But I really think it is important that we dont just read something, then believe it right away. We should only do that to what Allah says and His Messenger. If the Prophet [saw] has said something that is different to what a scholar says, we should really follow the Prophet [saw] because he is free from mistakes. If there is a difference of opinion about something, I think we should first studing both sides..then if one has more evidence we should go with that one. If they both have evidences, then we should choose our madhab/imam/scholar which we trust most.. Is my thinking correct on this? Ok, here's the fatwa about women praying together: Question: Is it better for women in the prayer-rooms of women’s colleges to pray together in jamaa’ah or individually? Which will bring the greater reward? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. We put this question to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, may Allaah preserve him, who answered as follows: It is better for them to pray in jamaa’ah, if possible, but the reward of twenty-seven times more applies only to men, because praying in jamaa’ah is obligatory for them. “The correct view is that for women to pray in jamaa’ah, and for a woman to lead other women in prayer, are things that are permitted in Islam and indeed are mustahabb for them. The evidence (daleel) for that is the hadeeth of Um Waraqah that we have referred to above, in which it states that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave her permission to lead the (female) members of her household in prayer… It is also confirmed by the fact that some of the Mothers of the Believers led other women in prayer. It was reported from Laytah al-Hanafiyyah (from the tribe of Banu Haneefah) that ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers led them in the obligatory prayer. And it was narrated from Tameemah bint Saleemah that ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) led women in Maghrib prayer, and that she stood in the middle of them and recited Qur’aan aloud. It was also narrated that Um Salamah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) used to lead women in prayer in Ramadaan, and that she stood with them in the row. And it was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar used to tell one of his slave women to lead his womenfolk in prayer in Ramadaan.” Al-Muhalla, 4/119-200 Al-Mufassal fi Ahkaamal-Mar’ah, p. 254 (www.islam-qa.com) |
| 07/29/02 at 19:59:41 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Barraa |
| 07/25/02 at 15:41:14 |
| [quote author=Shahida link=board=sis;num=1027445617;start=0#11 date=07/25/02 at 05:55:51] [slm] I agree with Jannah...consult your particular Imaam about this issue! BUT it is essential also to read what other scholars have written, so that when you see a woman praying "differently" to you, you do not automatically assume that she is wrong... I just have to highlight one statement that worries me immensely, and may Allah forgive me, but this REALLY worries me... [color=Red] It is Makrooh (reprehensible) for women to perform Salaat in jamaat (congregation). They should perform their Salaat individually. However if the Mahram males (i.e. those men with whom one cannot get married eg. brothers, father, grandfather etc.) are performing Salaat with jamaat in the house, a woman can join that jamaat. She will stand behind the men. She should not stand in line with the men. (Mufti Taqi Uthmaani)[/color] No offense to the sheikh, but pray tell, were all the women who stood in prayer behind our Prophet (s.a.w.s) his Mahram? Do you have to be the Imaam's relative in order to pray behind him? Are we only allowed to pray "in jamaat" in our homes? It is not my intention to start bashing the Imaams, but I have major problems with this...sorry. Wasalam, let me go before I say something worse... Shahida :-) [/quote] Sister Shahidah i didn't get what you meant. Are you against this or with it or you dont know if its true or not? Well my suggestion i dont think it is very true that it is prohibited women pray behind men. maybe if it is mixed men and women maybe its makrooh ok? i gave as much proof as i could in my last post so read it again. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Aabidah |
| 07/25/02 at 16:16:03 |
| [slm] sis Shahida, to my understanding the Sheikh is talking about the Hanafi madhab. In the hanafi madhab, the women can't lead the salaah and so, when i'm with sisters and it's prayer time, i go off to a corner and pray on my own and the oterhs pray in jamaah. (I am hanafi :)) So, that is waht the sheikh means when he says they should go off and pray themselves. However, I agree with you on the matter that I too didn't understand what he meant by the last sentence. In the masjid, i always pray behind our imam and the bro's of the community....anyone have any ideas?? plz forgive me if i've said anything wrong..... [wlm] Betul |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/25/02 at 19:38:04 |
| Salam alaikum, I just wanted to point out that there are hadiths approving women leading other women in salat. The hadiths mentioned are all saheeh (authentic) or hasan (good), for those who are following a madhab that says women are not to lead salat, here are a couple of quotes from the Imams themselves. They all say that if we are to find an authentic hadith that goes against what they have said, we should follow the hadith, and that hadith would be their madhab. Allahu Alim. Narrated Umm Waraqah(RAA): That the Prophet(pbuh) commanded her to lead the inmates of her house in prayer. Abu Dawud transmitted it; Ibn Khuzaima made it authentic, AlBaani made it hasan (good). Also: It was reported from Laytah al-Hanafiyyah (from the tribe of Banu Haneefah) that ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers led them in the obligatory prayer. And it was narrated from Tameemah bint Saleemah that ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) led women in Maghrib prayer, and that she stood in the middle of them and recited Qur’aan aloud. It was also narrated that Um Salamah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) used to lead women in prayer in Ramadaan, and that she stood with them in the row. And it was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar used to tell one of his slave women to lead his womenfolk in prayer in Ramadaan.” Sayings Of The Imaams Regarding Following The Sunnah And Ignoring Their Views Contradictory To It: It would be beneficial if we gave some of these here, for perhaps this will admonish or remind those who follow the opinion of the Imaams - nay, of those far below the Imaams in rank - blindly18, sticking to their madhhabs or views as if these had descended from the heavens! But Allaah, Mighty and Sublime, says: "Follow (O men!) the revelation given to you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends and protectors, other than Him. Little is it you remember of admonition."19 1) Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) The first of them is Abu Haneefah Nu'maan ibn Thaabit, whose companions have narrated from him various sayings and diverse warnings, all of them leading to one thing: the obligation to accept the Hadeeth, and to give up following the opinions of the imaams which contradict it: 1. "When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab."20 2. "It is not permitted21 for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."22 In one narration, "It is prohibited23 for someone who does not know my evidence to give verdicts24 on the basis of my words." Another narration adds, "... for we are mortals: we say one thing one day, and take it back the next day." In another narration, "Woe to you, O Ya'qub25! Do not write down everything you hear from me, for it happens that I hold one opinion today and reject it tomorrow, or hold one opinion tomorrow and reject it the day after tomorrow."26 3. "When I say something contradicting the Book of Allaah the Exalted or what is narrated from the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then ignore my saying."27 2) Maalik ibn Anas (rahimahullaah) As for Imaam Maalik ibn Anas, he said: 1. "Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it."28 2. "Everyone after the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) will have his sayings accepted and rejected - not so the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)."29 3. Ibn Wahb said: "I heard Maalik being asked about cleaning between the toes during ablution. He said, 'The people do not have to do that.' I did not approach him until the crowd had lessened, when I said to him, 'We know of a sunnah about that.' He said, 'What is that ?' I said, 'Laith ibn Sa'd, Ibn Lahee'ah and 'Amr ibn al-Haarith narrated to us from Yazeed ibn 'Amr al-Ma'aafiri from Abu 'Abdur-Rahman al-Hubuli from Mustawrid ibn Shaddaad al-Qurashi who said, 'I saw the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) rubbing between his toes with his little finger.' He said, 'This hadeeth is sound; I had not heard of it at all until now.' Afterwards, I heard him being asked about the same thing, on which he ordered cleaning between the toes."30 3) Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah) As for Imaam Shaafi'i, the quotations from him are most numerous and beautiful31, and his followers were the best in sticking to them: 1. "The sunnahs of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) reach, as well as escape from, every one of us. So whenever I voice my opinion, or formulate a principle, where something contrary to my view exists on the authority of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then the correct view is what the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has said, and it is my view."32 2. "The Muslims are unanimously agreed that if a sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is made clear to someone, it is not permitted33 for him to leave it for the saying of anyone else."34 3. "If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and leave what I have said." In one narration: "... then follow it (the Sunnah), and do not look sideways at anyone else's saying."35 4. "When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab."36 5. "You37 are more knowledgeable about Hadeeth than I, so when a hadeeth is saheeh, inform me of it, whether it is from Kufah, Basrah or Syria, so that I may take the view of the hadeeth, as long as it is saheeh."38 6. "In every issue where the people of narration find a report from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) to be saheeh which is contrary to what I have said, then I take my saying back, whether during my life or after my death."39 7. "If you see me saying something, and contrary to it is authentically-reported from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then know that my intelligence has departed."40 8. "For everything I say, if there is something authentic from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) contrary to my saying, then the hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) comes first, so do not follow my opinion."41 9. "Every statement on the authority of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is also my view, even if you do not hear it from me."42 4) Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah) Imaam Ahmad was the foremost among the Imaams in collecting the Sunnah and sticking to it, so much so that he even "disliked that a book consisting of deductions and opinions be written."43 Because of this he said: 1. "Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took."44 In one narration: "Do not copy your Deen from anyone of these, but whatever comes from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions, take it; next are their Successors, where a man has a choice." Once he said: "Following45 means that a man follows what comes from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions; after the Successors, he has a choice."46 2. "The opinion of Awzaa'i, the opinion of Maalik, the opinion of Abu Haneefah: all of it is opinion, and it is all equal in my eyes. However, the proof is in the narrations (from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions)."47 3. "Whoever rejects a statement of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is on the brink of destruction."48 These are the clear, lucid sayings of the Imaams (Allaah Exalted be pleased with them) about sticking to the Hadeeth and forbidding the following of their opinion without clearly- visible evidence, such that mere opinion and interpretation is not acceptable. Hence, whoever adhered to whatever of the Sunnah that was proved authentic, even if it opposed some of the Imaams' sayings, he would not be conflicting with their madhhab, nor straying from their path; rather, such a person would be following all of them and would be grasping the most trustworthy hand-hold, which never breaks. However, this would not be the case with the one who abandoned any of the authentic Sunnah simply because it contradicted their views; nay, such a person would be being disobedient to them and opposing their above mentioned sayings, while Allaah says: "But no, by Your Lord, they can have no (real) faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."49. He also says: "Then let those beware who withstand the Messenger's order, lest some trial befall them or a grievous penalty be inflicted on them."50 Haafiz Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali (rahimahullaah) says: "Therefore it is obligatory on anyone who hears of a command of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) or knows it, to explain it to the Ummah, advise them sincerely, and order them to follow his command, even if it contradicts the opinion of someone great. This is because the authority of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has the most right to be respected and followed, over and above the opinion of anyone great who has unknowingly contradicted the Messenger's command in any matter. This is why the Companions and those after would refute anyone who contradicted the authentic Sunnah, sometimes being very stern in their refutation51, not out of hatred for that person, for they loved and respected him, but because the Messenger of Allaah was more beloved to them, and his command was superior to the command of any other created being. Hence, when the order of the Messenger and that of someone else conflicted, the order of the Messenger would be more fitting to be enforced and followed. None of this would stop them respecting the person they had opposed because they knew that he would be forgiven52; in fact, the latter would not mind his instruction being opposed when the command of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) was clearly shown to be opposite."53 Indeed, how could they mind that, when they had ordered their followers to do so, as we have seen, and had enjoined on them to abandon any of their views which contradicted the Sunnah. In fact, Imaam Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah) told his companions to attribute the authentic Sunnah to him also, even if he had not adopted it or had adopted something contradictory to it. Hence, when the analyst Ibn Daqeeq al-'Eid (rahimahullaah) collected together, in a bulky volume, the issues in which one or more of the four Imaams' madhhabs had contradicted the authentic hadeeth, he wrote at the beginning of it, "It is prohibited to attribute these answers to the Mujtahid Imaams, and obligatory on the jurists who follow their opinions to know of these so that they do not quote them regarding these and thus lie against them."54 The Imaams' Followers Leaving their Views if these Contradicted the Sunnah Due to all that we have mentioned, the disciples of the Imaams, a number of people from those of old, and a few from those of later time55, would not accept all of their Imaam's views; they actually ignored many when they found them to be clearly against the Sunnah. Even the two Imaams, Muhammad ibn al-Hasan and Abu Yoosuf (rahimahullaah) differed from their shaikh Abu Haneefah "in about a third of the Madhhab"56, as the books of masaa'il prove. Similarly is said about Imaam al- Muzani57 and other followers of Shaafi'i and other Imaams; were we to start giving examples, the discussion would become exceedingly, long, and we would digress from what we set out to do in this Introduction, so we shall limit ourselves to two instances: 1) Imaam Muhammad says in his Muwatta'58(p. 158), "As for Abu Haneefah, he did not regard there being a prayer to ask for rain, but we hold that the imaam prays two rak'ahs and then supplicates and holds out his wrapping garment ..." 2) We have 'Isaam ibn Yoosuf al-Balkhi, one of the companions of Imaam Muhammad59 and a servant of Imaam Abu Yoosuf60, who "would give verdicts contrary to Imaam Abu Haneefah because he did not know the latter's evidence, and other evidence would present itself to him, so he would give verdicts using that."61 Hence, "he would raise his hands on bowing (in prayer) and on rising from it"62, as is the mutawaatir sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam); the fact that his three Imaams (i.e. Abu Haneefah, Abu Yoosuf and Muhammad) said otherwise did not prevent him from practising this sunnah. This is the approach which every Muslim is obliged to have, as we have already seen from the testimony of the Four Imaams, and others. To sum up: I sincerely hope that no follower of an Imaam will race to condemn the principles of this book and abandon benefiting from the sunnahs of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) which it contains, with the argument that they are contrary to his Madhhab. I hope that such a person will instead consider what we have given of the exhortations of the Imaams towards the obligation to act on the Sunnah and ignore their sayings contradictory to it. I hope also that he will realise that to condemn the attitude of this book is to condemn whichever Imaam he is following, for we have taken these principles from those Imaams, as we have explained. Therefore, whoever refuses to be guided by them on this path is in great danger, for such refusal necessitates turning away from the Sunnah, the Sunnah to which we have been ordered to refer in cases of difference of opinion and on which we have been commanded to depend. I ask Allaah to make us among those about whom He says, "The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allaah and His Messenger, in order that he may judge betweeen them, is no other than this: they say, "We hear and we obey" - it is such as these that will attain Success. It is those who obey Allaah and His Messenger, and fear Allaah, and keep their duty to Him, who will triumph."63 here is the link: http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/01.html#RTFToC4 |
| 07/29/02 at 20:03:46 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/25/02 at 21:50:31 |
| [slm] [quote]In another narration, it is stated that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) passed by two women who were performing Salaat. He said: "When you make sajdah, attach your body to the ground. Indeed women are not like men in this matter." (i.e. they differ in the posture of sajdah). (Maraasil of Imaam Abu Dawood (R.A)[/quote] I looked this hadith up and sheikh Albaani made it weak..ill post more inshaAllah. Allahu Alim. |
| 07/29/02 at 20:05:27 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Aurora |
| 07/26/02 at 00:42:39 |
| [quote author=BrKhalid link=board=sis;num=1027445617;start=0#13 date=07/25/02 at 07:39:18]Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) I have to admit, I read that passage in the context of women praying in congregation at home and not in relation to the Masjid. Hence, the meaning I took was that the scholar was saying if a group of women were *at home*, then it was better for them to pray individually rather than in congregation between themselves (no men involved) I can understand though how the line: Could be misinterpreted to mean not coming to the Masjid to pray. As ever Allah knows best. Wasalaam Br Khalid [/quote] I also took it the same way, as I remember an occasion a few years ago when Mufti Desai was asked concerning women praying together in congregation and he said they should not. I know this will only add to the confusion, Last year I had the priviledge of listening to a woman speaker, (her name escapes me), the founder of the Al Huda school in Islamabad, and after the talk she was asked a number of questions, of one which was the matter of women praying in congregation, she said it was permissible. At the maghrib prayer after the lecture, I noticed a few ladies who prayed alone, i.e. did not pray with the congregation, when asked they said they did not believe it was right according to the Hanafi school of thought. Allah swt knows best. |
| 07/26/02 at 00:43:30 |
| Aurora |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Shahida |
| 07/26/02 at 08:55:12 |
| [slm] Just to clarify, I read that sentence again and again, and the only thing i got from it was the following: Women are NOT allowed to pray in jamaat, not only with other women, but also not with other men who are NOT mahram...that's how I understand this. My view is further qualified by my experience with women who REFUSE to pray in jamaat with a man, in the mosque or the prayer room, because they believe that it is not only MAKROOH, but actually HARAAM! This is a very dangerous thing, and only confounded by this Mufti's fatwa. I will write more about this later. JazakiAllahu khairun to sis Fatima for posting and all the others too, may Allah reward you all. It's very very important for us to research our practices and actually see where they come from, and whether they contradict the practices of the Prophet s.a.w.s. Salamat Shahida |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| BrKhalid |
| 07/26/02 at 10:06:198/td> |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) The quote in question is: [quote]It is Makrooh (reprehensible) for women to perform Salaat in jamaat (congregation). They should perform their Salaat individually. However if the Mahram males (i.e. those men with whom one cannot get married eg. brothers, father, grandfather etc.) are performing Salaat with jamaat in the house, a woman can join that jamaat. She will stand behind the men. She should not stand in line with the men.[/quote] To the best of my understanding, the opinion is that whilst *disliked*, the prayer of women in jamaat will still be *valid* but less *rewardable*. I think there is a big difference between the above and: [quote]Women are NOT allowed to pray in jamaat[/quote] Apologies Sr Shahida if it seems I may be splitting hairs but I thought it was a point worth making. |
| 07/26/02 at 10:07:29 |
| BrKhalid |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Kathy |
| 07/26/02 at 10:28:03 |
| [slm] I am also wondering about congregational salat for woman and the need for unity when saying our prayers. If some schools of thought are one way and others are different things get a little bit complicated. For example in the privious post, Shaykhul Hadith Mawlana Fadhlur Rahmaan Saheb says: * Women should stand with both feet close together. There should be no gap between the two feet. Now what happens if the sister standing next to her believes in the toe to toe/shoulder to shoulder stance? (I am starting to understand why sometimes I fell as if I am spread eagle during some jummat prayers!) |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/26/02 at 11:41:55 |
| [slm] The reason why the schools of thought differ on matters many times, is because not all the hadiths were all collected together at their time. It wasnt like today, where I can just go and pick up all my hadith books and read all the sayings in there. Sometimes they wouldnt know about a hadith, then they would judge according to what they knew. In fact, there were times when they made a ruling, then changed their minds later after finding an evidence against it. Thats why all the Imams have said that if we find an authentic hadith, then to follow it, and that would be their madhab. There is an authentic hadith that we are suppose to be shoulder to shoulder and foot to foot in the salat. So Kathy, dont worry, you are doing what is correct and if you keep being an 'eagle' (i know what you mean!) then inshaAllah you will be rewarded for your intentions. Sister Shahida, im not sure what the imam ment by his statement about the mahram..i dont want to misunderstand what he was saying, BUT i do know that the women in the time of the Prophet [saw] prayed behind non mahram males and the Prophet [saw] has told us women to come out and pray the Eid prayers ect.. in congregation. |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Barraa |
| 07/27/02 at 16:15:33 |
| [quote]In another narration, it is stated that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) passed by two women who were performing Salaat. He said: "When you make sajdah, attach your body to the ground. Indeed women are not like men in this matter." (i.e. they differ in the posture of sajdah). (Maraasil of Imaam Abu Dawood (R.A) [/quote] abu dawud is not all correct ahadith. and women?, are exactly like men in their prayer. if you have any TRUE backup that what i say is wrong please do post it... Narrated Sahl: The men used to pray with the Prophet with their Izars tied around their necks as boys used to do; therefore the Prophet told the women not to raise their heads till the men sat down straight (while praying). the above hadith means that women used to pray behind the men while the prophet lead the prayer. Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle used to offer the Fajr prayer and some believing women covered with their veiling sheets used to attend the Fajr prayer with him and then they would return to their homes unrecognized . remember these are all correct ahdith from sahih al-bukhari... i hope that helps you alot....and Sister Shahidah please make yourself more clear....because i think what you understood was wrong. and if it isn't wrong give me proof that its right. and don't worry i gave enough dalil (proof) to pray behind non mahram men in jama3a(t) if i am wrong please correct me because i shouldn't be seen going astray while you know and won't help...well maybe we could stop this whole conversation if all i said was correct. and sometimes shukh aren't very strict and islamicly ordered people so die as if you knew you were going to leave one day. well thats it for this post...correct or follow(as in what i said) me... wa salamo alaykum wr br... ;) |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Shahida |
| 07/29/02 at 05:59:49 |
| [slm] Brother, you are correct, he did say reprehensible! But the point I tried to make (rather unsuccessfully, I admit) is that I have always wondered why in heaven's name women would enter a mosque or prayer room, be able to hear/see/or both the Imaam, and yet pray alone, by themselves. And then I read this and the answer I ALWAYS hear "It is HARAAM for us to pray behind an Imaam!!" came flooding back, like the bad experience that it is... I finally found out where they were getting this "haraam" thing, even though the sheikh does say "Makrooh"...by the way, many many people would regard Makrooh as haraam, just for safety sake, and avoid anything that is Makrooh, including in this case, praying behind an Imaam. [quote] To the best of my understanding, the opinion is that whilst *disliked*, the prayer of women in jamaat will still be *valid* but less *rewardable*. [/quote] This is exactly what they DO NOT understand... [quote] Apologies Sr Shahida if it seems I may be splitting hairs but I thought it was a point worth making. [/quote] No problem, this was my error, thanks for pointing it out and helping me to clarify... Wasalam Shahida :-) |
| Re: How do women pray? |
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| Barraa |
| 07/29/02 at 15:21:12 |
| so sister shahidah maybe the sheikh did mean that but did you understand what i meant and what our Brother (in islam) said? because i feel that you aren't understanding really. private mail me for a reply please. wa jazak allahu kula khair |
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