A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| stap |
| 07/25/02 at 10:51:45 |
| Interesting article...insha-allah please make Dua for him and Abdul Hamid (aka John Walker Lindh) and all the other mujahideen imprisoned in Guantanamo and else where. A Window on The Mind of Moussaoui Alleged 9/11 Conspirator's Court Papers Form A Creative, Rambling Work By Philip Kennicott Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, July 25, 2002; Page C01 Whether or not alleged Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui appears in federal court in Alexandria today -- a hearing at which he has vowed he will plead guilty -- he has produced a substantial paper trail. In dozens of motions filed with the court in past weeks, he has written a kind of autobiographical tract written in a rough legalese. It is a document of a mind and a man facing death and afraid of dishonor, sometimes rambling and discursive, yet with threads of logic and flashes of brilliance. In short bursts of three, four and five pages, he was written letters to the world, decrying injustice, pleading for aid, and warning of God's wrath. They are not exclusively the megaphone for propaganda that many worried would emerge from his efforts to represent himself against an indictment charging that he was to have participated in last year's terrorist attacks. Rather, they show an angry man focused on what he feels is American hypocrisy and determined to hold this country to its stated principles of freedom and justice. Even as observers speculate about Moussaoui's mental stability, his writings suggest that he was developing a legal strategy, if not to save himself then to call to account those who he feels are abusing him. His pleadings, sometimes filed at a rate of five or six a day, are handwritten. They are not always grammatical and his spellings are frequently phonetic. At times he reverts to spellings -- Americain for American -- that remind the reader that he grew up in France as a French citizen of Moroccan descent. The pleadings are filled with exhortations to Allah and repetitive diatribes. And yet, they're also playful at times, especially when tweaking or goading Judge Leonie Brinkema or his court-appointed standby lawyers. He asks rhetorical questions, makes sarcastic asides and sometimes indulges in an almost whimsical irony. Furious with Judge Brinkema, he writes, "Keep going Brinkema but don't forget it's the landing that is difficult. (Trust me, I am a pilot.)" Much of that passage, and many others, are written in all capital letters. Although he feels cut off from the world (barred from seeing anyone but lawyers and family), he hasn't lost touch with it. He knows of his celebrity as the only person facing the death penalty for crimes committed in the alleged conspiracy. He fears for his safety: "Alexandria Jail is constantly having new Deputy, it will be easy to claim that a distraught Sept 11 family member gain employment and shoot me." He's afraid that a stun belt will be used to subdue him in court, or that an incident will be manufactured as a pretext for killing him. One of the few consistent elements in his pleadings is the heading. He demonstrates a basic familiarity with the legal format, labeling each filing with the heading "Zacarias Moussaoui V. US." But under his own name he consistently writes "Muslim" and under the initials "US" he writes "Godless Government." That dichotomy reveals the degree to which he views his case as a religious persecution, rather than a contest within a secular court system. He suggests that a Muslim cannot expect justice from a non-Muslim court, and seems to reference passages in the Koran that discourage friendship with, and the acceptance of aid from, unbelievers. Those passages, like any scripture, are open to multiple interpretations, but Moussaoui's own relation to scripture is essentially literal: "The Coran, which is the Most beautiful book of Allah, unchanged for 1400 years." His understanding of the trial entirely in religious terms colors his expectation of fairness at every turn, including the debate about his sanity. He is dismissive of any effort to give him legal assistance, referring to court-appointed defenders as "death lawyers." In a July 11 pleading, he turns the question of his mental competence around and diagnoses Judge Brinkema's sanity from his own point of view: "Mental State examination . . . "Acute symptom of Islamaphobia with complex of gender inferiority" "Diagnostic impressions "Legal pathological killer instinct with ego [boosting] dementia to become supreme" "Conclusion and Recommendations "Immediate Psychiatric hospitalization to specialist Unit. I propose UBL Treatment Center (of course UBL stand for unique best location)." His use of the initials UBL, for Usama bin Laden, is only one example of an almost mystical relation to language. He finds patterns in language, initials that can stand for multiple words, or phonetic connections that seem, to him, to suggest philosophical similarities. UBL isn't only "unique best location" and Usama bin Laden, but also "United Behind the Lion." The FBI is also the Fascist Bureau of Information. The initials SAM, which stand for Special Administrative Measures (restrictions that prevent him from outside communication that might compromise security), also reveal "Secret Assassination of Moussaoui" and are, of course, a reference to the government, Uncle Sam. He also enjoys politically charged neologisms. Rather like Rush Limbaugh's use of terms such as "feminazi," Moussaoui invents the word "demoncratic" to dismiss the idea of democratic justice. On July 3, he says, "I am learning the hard way that every word count in this life." It's a statement that has at least two meanings: He acknowledges that, in a legal context, he must parse his requests with care. But he also declares a view of language that was once common in literature from Homer to Freud. Epithets, allusions and etymological similarities have profound, perhaps even magical, meaning for him. Taken out of context, Moussaoui's individual requests seem erratic, at best. In an effort to prove that the FBI had him under surveillance long before his August arrest, he asked for a forensics expert to examine an electric fan that he claimed had been bugged by federal agents. He claimed that the fan had been left "on my car" and that he had unsuspectingly taken possession of it. The FBI, in his account, could claim he had stolen the fan, willingly taking possession of the bug and thus, whatever it revealed would be admissible in court. In pleading after pleading, his demand to see the fan becomes obsessive, the request shortened, and syntactically garbled into something that sounds manic and delusional: "Where is my Bug FAN!" and, "The FBI must give me the bug fan." As his pleadings are routinely dismissed as repetitive, frivolous or moot, his anger grows, and becomes focused on Brinkema. After declaring that "The Fascist Bureau of Inquisition with the Special Services of Furor Brinkema" are preparing him for the "GAZ CHAMBER," he traces over the initial letters of Special Services, so they appear in boldface. Thereafter Brinkema is SS Brinkema. He also precedes her name in some pleadings with DJ, for Death Judge. His references to her allude, at times, to discomfort about her gender and power (evident from his "mental" evaluation of her as suffering from gender inferiority). He says, "She is a master of deception deceiving everybody with her Grandnany Look." He calls her the "She Clinton," and says she is "Without a doubt Pro Choice . . . The Choice for the killing of Zacarias Moussaoui." His use of "pro-choice" is one of several attempts to play with and invert political labels. He also mocks Brinkema's "compassionate conservatism, namely pretending to want to protect me." Brinkema's power frustrates him, even as he knows that, as a judge, she "is not above the law." He speculates that her goal is to become a member of the Supreme Court, and is suspicious of her efforts to prevent him from sabotaging his own defense. "On one hand SHE will be held as a caring compassionate human and on the other she will be held as a dutiful patriotic judge. SHE HAVE IT ALL." As he simultaneously engages and dismisses the justice of a "godless" government, and as his distrust of Brinkema grows, he feels increasingly trapped. His efforts to force foreign governments to admit their alleged collusion with the FBI come to nothing. Letters to the outside world are intercepted. He is prevented from working with his requested legal adviser, the Muslim lawyer Charles Freeman from Texas, who late yesterday made his first formal effort to assist Moussaoui; and his pleadings are sometimes held under seal or redacted. "So I am still in my cave," he writes. He seems aware that his anger could be used against him in an effort to have him declared mentally incapable of defending himself. He refers consistently to a conspiracy to have him judged unfit, and his fear of being declared insane is striking. Being declared insane, he feels, would lead immediately to his execution. In legal terms, it might be the one thing that can save him, but it would also cost him an argument that he considers a strong defense. He asserts that he could not have been one of the hijackers because that would mean he intended to commit suicide. And, he lectures, "The right to life is a fundamental right in Islam. Everybody should know that Islam does condemn suicide." As proof that he never intended to commit suicide, and thus was never part of the plot to fly planes into buildings, he cites his efforts to get married. He wants the FBI to reveal that he approached an imam in Norman, Okla., and asked for his assistance with finding a wife. "Of course the FBI did not want to declassified this interview because it confirm that I intended (and still intend) to have a family. A jury might find a bit difficult to believe that even a Muslim fundamentalist will marry one day and kill himself the next." But as he tries to prove his interest in having a family, he hedges on what Islam says about defending one's own life. "Islam is very flescible on thing you can do to protect your life -- For example everybody know that alcool is forbidden in Islam but if you are dying of thirst in the desert Islam allow you to drink whiskey as long as there is no water." He doesn't address the issue of what he means by "life," whether it refers to this life on Earth, or life in the hereafter, though in several passages he refers to making his final account before Allah. His argument about suicide is a rare attempt to construct a defense that would argue for his innocence. Often he strikes a fatalistic note about disproving the charges against him. He makes no effort to hide his admiration for Osama Bin Laden, at one point writing the cryptic question, "Who is the main tiger?" which he answers, upside down, on the bottom of the page: "USAMA." In one pleading, he speculates that the prosecution will connect him to Bin Laden. ("Because if for example the prosecution were to prove to the jury that for example you serve food in a guest house of Bin Laden, and supposedly are guilty . . . .") His fear, in this pleading, is that a jury won't distinguish between his admiration for Bin Laden and alleged participation in the hijacking plot. And in one of his most revealing statements, he suggests that he is bound by a sense of personal honor to avoid any prosecutorial attempt to catch him in a lie: "Basically a jury might spare the death penalty to their enmy but they will not to a coward liar." His attempt to connect the FBI to a 9/11 coverup scheme is a constant, but it grew more insistent as he became aware of FBI agent Coleen Rowley's criticism of agency brass. He refers to her as the "whistle blower," as someone the FBI is afraid of, and as someone who can prove his claim that FBI knew of his activities all along. In a pleading filed July 9, he says, "I must be able to speak on: why Coleen Rowley . . . should testify to prove the FBI COVER UP." Although often vague about the details of that coverup, Moussaoui says "the FBI facilitated the movement of the 19 hijacker in the US [and] will kill Zacarias Moussaoui to silence him." It seems paradoxical that Moussaoui, even while distancing himself from the 19 hijackers, would goad the FBI for information that could connect him to the plot. But he insists repeatedly that he was not one of the 19, that he "was not in 19 martyrs team." Strictly speaking, he wasn't one of the 19 hijackers. He was arrested in Minnesota on immigration charges almost a month before the Sept. 11 attacks. Between intending to do something -- whether it's murder or marriage -- and actually doing it, lies an existential gulf. Sitting in prison for almost a year, Moussaoui, still a young man of 34, is aware of at least two roads not taken: that of marriage and family and life, and that of martyrdom. It's not clear to what degree he regrets the former and feels guilty about the latter. The difference between Moussaoui and the terrorists of Sept. 11 is that he has, for now, time to ponder these questions. © 2002 The Washington Post Company |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 07/25/02 at 12:49:24 |
| please make Dua for him and Abdul Hamid (aka John Walker Lindh) and all the other mujahideen imprisoned in Guantanamo and else where. why don't you make dua for the people they killed or intended to kill? |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| stap |
| 07/25/02 at 18:47:49 |
| "why don't you make dua for the people they killed or intended to kill?" Who did they kill or intend to kill? It is a well known fact that the US has an extremely weak case against Mouassaoui and Abdul Hamid(the fact that he got 20 year is a complete disgrace and travesty of justice)). As for the Gitmo "detainees", they are mujahid who intended to defend Afghanistan against the Kuffar American soldiers and their Afghan allied puppets, so why should I make dua for the Kuffar except to ask Allah to destroy them? |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 07/25/02 at 20:40:55 |
| so why should I make dua for the Kuffar except to ask Allah to destroy them? its a free country so make dua for whomever you want to. It's is a nice thought about wanting to destroy people, but i would rather pray for people that they would become right with God. but again it is a free country. Of course it is a very difficult case to prove that someone will do something if they were not arrested, but to say he had no bad intentions is a stretch also, may or may not be provable. |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/25/02 at 21:59:36 |
| [slm] I like asking Allah to give us victory over the kufar which is quite different than asking to destroy them :) My family are still non muslim and so are all my old friends. I hope that we can ask Allah to guide these people and also to give us victory over them..but isnt asking for their destruction a little harsh? Allahu Alim. |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| mwishka |
| 07/25/02 at 23:13:25 |
| this is a well-written article, especially in the sense that it conveys a true picture of zacarias' mind. and he sounds to me - in his flashes of brilliance, facility with language, love of current cultural words and phrases and "buzzwords", and mind-boggling swiftness of letter and word meaning associations - to be a near classic schizophrenic. unlike the frequent misconceptions that people find who-knows-where about schizophrenia, it's primarily a language disorder, and tha effect of overstimulation of certain brain functions leads to, or carries with it, an endless high-paced inner world of thinking and seeking, and connection-making. this connection-making, in its most extreme effect, can produce delusions of grandeur, or of persecution, or also often a very personal sense of either purity, or, well, degradation -- or even evil. this man's thought patterns sound very very much like almost any of the 6 or 7 schizophrenic people i've either known personally or just had conversations with. and, well, then, of course, there's always nietzsche - another classic case, though i can't say i've ever had a real conversation with him. anyway, intelligence has nothing to do with ability to defend oneself in a courtroom. (aha ha! bro haaris and bro muqaddar, please forgive me for that unintended second meaning.. eek! fortunately, i think they're both fairly appreciative of even accidental humor....) ok, so what i really meant was that this man could be quite intelligent and yet not capable of participating in a courtroom proceeding. (schizophrenia often occurs in people with above-average or well above-average intelligence.) and about john walker lindh (abdul hamid), hey mike, whatta ya got against this poor guy? he's no one. well, not exactly no one - he's someone's child. he's no kind of terrorist, no more deserving of some big publicity trial about doing wrong than ony other single soldier in that "war", including each and every US soldier there. should we just round them ALL up and put them all on trial? is there anything about any kind of show like that that can do anything to assuage the pain of the pierced hearts we're supposedly putting on the show for? since it sure isn't about right and wrong - we don't have a lot of sense of that in US government, and, either by extension or as the hidden base of the lack of it in government, neither does it exist in the US military, anywhere except at maybe the level of the lowest recruits, beofre their ability to make choices about right and wrong is taken from them. and now, about all these kuffar we either want to destroy or not to destroy: can we go over this just once more, for me? pretty please? hee heee.....ok, now i thought that this term was to be applied ONLY to those who fail to follow one of the abrahamic religions. because if that isn't correct, then how can muslims marry people OF the religions of abraham, because then they'd be marrying kuffar, which i, um have been made to understand is a very very very big no-no, eh? mwishka |
| 07/27/02 at 20:18:42 |
| mwishka |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| yunus |
| 07/26/02 at 00:10:58 |
| Why should people be praying for Allah to kill non muslims we should be praying that Allah guide them to the truth. I know many non muslims who are very good people and work very hard for peace and justice. As a matter of fact I know more jews and other non muslims that are working to help our brothers and sisters in Palestine by raising money orgainizng rallys teach ins etc. It is a very sad situation that to many muslims are to afaird to speak out our work for justice when our deen teaches us we must do so. One of the big problems that I see with muslims here in my community is that we segregate our selves to much from other people. The best dawah is not giving someone literature or whatever in fact I dont even like to give dawah verbally. I just like my actions to speak for and educate people about Islam. Every revert I have talked to no one gave them dawah Allah made them a muslim and they came to it on their own. We need to realize that we are all human beings before we start putting labels on people. I was a kuffar not to long ago but praise be to Allah I was guided to the truth. Why should we pray for hate and destruction there is already to much of that now. We should be praying for peace and for people to love each other. This deen is one of peace not hate. |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| bhaloo |
| 07/26/02 at 01:12:38 |
| [slm] [quote] and now, about all these kuffar we either want to destroy or not to destroy: can we go over this just once more, for me? pretty please? hee heee.....ok, now i thought that this term was to be applied ONLY to those who fail to follow one of the abrahamic religions. because if that isn't correct, then how can muslims marry people OF the religions of abraham, because then they'd be marrying kuffar, which i, um have been made to understand is a very very very big no-no, eh? [/quote] The kuffar (non-Muslims) refers to any non-Muslim, including the Christians and the Jews (even if they are ignorant of Islam due to not hearing about it). (We've had a couple of threads on this in this board, several people were confused about this). There were some good articles I put up in that thread including scholarly proofs as did others. You are either a Muslim or you are a kafir, there is no middle ground. And as to Muslims marrying people of the book (christians or jews), this is only allowed for Muslim males to chaste people of the book, see surah 5:5. Quran 5:5 ...(Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers but chaste women among the People of the Book revealed before your time when ye give them their due dowers and desire chastity not lewdness nor secret intrigues.... In fact here was one of the articles I had posted earlier on this: Confirmation That Judaism And Christianity Are Forms Of Disbelief Shaykh Muhammad ibn Salih al-`Uthaymeen http://www.islaam.com/Article.asp?id=80 Question: One of the preachers in one of the mosques in Europe claimed that it is not allowed to consider Jews and Christians disbelievers. You know - may Allah preserve you - that most of the people who attend the mosques in Europe have very little knowledge. We fear that statements like this one will become widespread. Therefore, we request from you a complete and clear answer to this question. Answer:I say: The statement that came from that man is misguidance. In fact, it can be blasphemy. This is because Allah has declared that Jews and Christians are disbelievers (kuffaar) in His Book. Allah has said, "And the Jews say, ‘Ezra is the son of Allah,’ and the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the son of Allah.’ This is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth. They took their rabbis and their monks as lords besides Allah and [they also took as Lord] the Messiah, son of Mary. But they were commanded only to worship none but One God. Praise and Glory be to Him, [far above is He] from having the partners they associate with Him." [at-Taubah 9:30-31] That shows that they are polytheists who associate partners with Allah. In other verses, Allah has made it clear that they are disbelievers: "Surely in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary." [al-Maidah 5:17 and 72] "Surely, disbelievers are those who said, ‘Allah is the third of the three [in a Trinity]." [al-Maidah 5:73] "Those among the Children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David and Jesus, son of Mary." [al-Maidah 5:87] "Those who disbelieve among the People of the Book and the idolaters will abide in the Fire of Hell." [al-Bayyinah 98:6] Many verses and hadith express the same meaning. The one who rejects the idea that the Jews and the Christians who do not believe in Muhammad [peace be upon him] and deny him are disbelievers is, in fact, denying what Allah has said. Denying what Allah has said is blasphemy. If anyone has any doubt concerning them being disbelievers, then he himself is also a disbeliever. Glory be to Allah! How could that man be pleased to say that it is not allowed to say that they are disbelievers when they themselves say that Allah is one of a Trinity? Their Creator Himself has declared that they are disbelievers. How could this man not be pleased to call them disbelievers when they actually say, "Jesus is the son of God" or "the hand of Allah is tied," and "Allah is poor and we are rich"? How could this man not be pleased to call them disbelievers and apply the word of disbelief (kufr) to them in general when they describe their Lord in such ways that are nothing but cursing and abusing Allah? I call upon that man to repent to Allah and to read Allah’s words, "They wish that you should compromise (in religion out of courtesy) with them, so that they (too) would compromise with you." [al-Qalam 68-9] He should make it clear to everyone that they are disbelievers and that they are the inhabitants of the Hell-fire. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "By the One in whose hand my soul is, no Jew or Christian of this community hears about me - that is from the community of people from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) until the Day of Judgment - and then does not follow me - or he said does not believe in what I brought - except that he is from the inhabitants of the Hell-fire." [Saheeh Muslim] The one who made such a statement must repent to his Lord because of this great falsehood he has stated. He must make a clear announcement that they are disbelievers and that they are inhabitants of the Hell-fire. He must also announce that it is obligatory upon them to follow the unlettered Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). he is the one that the Jews and the Christians know and they know him like they know their own sons. Allah has stated, "Those who follow the Messenger, the illiterate Prophet whom they find written about with them in the Torah and the Gospel, he commands what is right and forbids what is evil. He allows them the good things and forbids for them disdainful things. He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the fetters that were upon them. So those who believe in him, honor him, help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful." [al-Araf 7:157] He is the one of whom Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon him) gave glad tidings. Jesus said, as His Lord states in the Quran, "O Israel, I am the Messenger of Allah for you confirming the Torah (which came) before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad [one of the names of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him]. But when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, ‘This is clear magic.’" [as-Saff 61:6] When the one, Ahmad, who was promised came to them with clear signs, they said that it was nothing but magic. By this, we can refute those Christians who say that the one Jesus promised was named Ahmad and not Muhammad. We say to that that Allah said, "When he came with clear proofs," and none has come to you after Jesus except Muhammad (peace be upon him). Muhammad is Ahmad and Allah inspired Jesus to call Muhammad Ahmad. This is because Ahmad is a name from the root meaning, "to praise," and the name itself means, "One who praises Allah more than others." Therefore, [Muhammad (peace be upon him)] is the most praiseworthy of Allah among all peoples... I further say: If anyone claims that there is a religion on earth other than Islam that is acceptable to Allah, then the person who made that claim is a disbeliever and there is no doubt about his disbelief. This is because Allah has said in His Book, "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. [ali-Imran 3:85]. Allah has also said, "Truly, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam" [ali-Imran 3:19]. Another verse states, "This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" [al-Maida 5:3] Based on that - and I repeat it for a third time - the person who made that statement [mentioned in the question] must repent to Allah, Most High. And he must also make it clear to all the people that those Jews and Christians are disbelievers. This is so because the proof has been established against them, they have received the message but they have refused to believe. The Jews have been described as those who have earned Allah’s wrath. That is because they knew the truth and chose to go against it. The Christians have been described as those who have gone astray. This is because they sought the truth but were misled from it. Now, all of them have knowledge of the truth and recognize it. However, they go against it. Therefore, they all deserve to have the wrath of Allah upon them. I call all those Jews and Christians to believe in Allah and all of His Messengers. I call upon them to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This is what they have been ordered to do in their own books. Allah states in the Quran, "My Mercy embraces all things. That (Mercy) I shall ordain for those who are God-fearing and give zakat, and those who believe in Our revelations. Those who follow the Messenger, the illiterate Prophet whom they find written about with them in the Torah and the Gospel, he commands what is right and forbids what is evil. He allows them the good things and forbids for them disdainful things. He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the fetters that were upon them. So those who believe in him, honor him, help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful. Say (O Muhammad): O Mankind! Verily, I am sent to all of you as the Messenger of Allah, to whom belongs the heavens and the earth. There is no true God but He. It is He who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered, who believes in Allah and His Words. And follow him so that you may be guided." [al-Araf 7:156-158]. [By having such faith, those converts from Judaism and Christianity] shall receive their reward twice. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, "There are three people who will receive their rewards twice: A person from the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] who believed in his prophet and believed in Muhammad..." [al-Bukhari and Muslim]. I have also found in the law book al-Iqna`, in the section on apostasy, where the author has stated, "One who does not consider as a disbeliever one who follows a religion other than Islam, such as the Christians, or who has doubt about their disbelief or who approves of their way himself is a disbeliever." And he quotes Ibn Taimiya as saying, "[The following is] a disbeliever: Whoever believes that churches are the houses of Allah in which he He is worshipped or who thinks that what the Jews and Christians do are valid acts of worship of Allah and obedience to Him and His Messenger, or loves or approves of what they do, or aids them in having such places and establishing their religion, and he does so thinking that is a way of getting closer to Allah or worshipping Allah." He also stated, "If someone believes that visiting the Jews and the Christians in their places of worship is an act that brings him closer to Allah, then he is an apostate." These statements support what was stated in the text of the answer. This is a matter concerning which there is no room for doubt. And help is sought only with Allah. This question was responded by Ibn Uthaimin, Fatawa Islamiya, vol. 1, p. 87 |
| 07/26/02 at 07:40:00 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| stap |
| 07/26/02 at 03:03:28 |
| "Why should people be praying for Allah to kill non muslims we should be praying that Allah guide them to the truth." To clear something up, I didn't say to destroy the Kuffar fullstop. I said I'd make dua to destroy the "Kuffar American soldiers" in Afghanistan who are fighting against the mujahideen. The word "Kuffar" in the last sentence of my post was referring to the definition of the sentence before it. Sorry for the misunderstanding... :) |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/26/02 at 11:06:37 |
| [slm] [quote]because if that isn't correct, then how can muslims marry people OF the religions of abraham, because then they'd be marrying kuffar, which i, um have been made to understand is a very very very big no-no, eh?[/quote] MashaAllah Bhaloo said everything I was going to say! (well, atleast the ayahs used and the point made) I just wanted to add something. All non muslims are kaffirs, even the people of the book, like the evidences in the quran gave. But Muslim men are allowed to marry kaffirs, they arent allowed to marry mushriks (kaffirs other than the people of the book) look at ayah 221 from AlBaqarah. |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| remote |
| 07/26/02 at 13:27:29 |
| [slm] We all need to make Dua for our brothers who are in captivity for defending Islam. What we, as an Ummah must do is single out extremists, people who call for the destruction of those who are not muslims. This is not the Islamic way. We need to make Dua for Allah (awj) to guide them to the path of Islam, for it is a duty upon all muslims to call others to Islam. Calling for the destruction of non-muslims push's them further away from Islam, and it breeds fear and hate. As muslims we don't need to add fuel to the fire. The non-muslims hear about us as being violant, aggressive and oppressive people, capable of murder in the name of religion. They have been fed lies about how Islam teach's its followers to target non-muslims if they fail to embrace Islam. We as muslims know this is not true. But what is a non-muslim supposed to think when he himself hears muslims calling for the kaafirs to be destroyed? Put ourselves in thier position. If a non-muslim poster was to say 'All muslims should be destroyed if they dont support us in our War On Terror", we would be outraged at those who say it. With this in mind, do we want the non-muslims to feel this way towards us? Is it for the benefit of dawa that we call for thier destruction. Please choose your words carefully. Peoples words can have a much larger impact than they realise, and in a time like this, we muslims do not need to be our own worst enemies. [wlm] |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| mwishka |
| 07/26/02 at 14:30:02 |
| (bro stap, forgive me for messin around in your serious discussion thread to meet a single additional personal need of my own....) ok, now one more vocabulary lesson, and i'll be on my way: i thought "mushrikeen" was defined as "polytheists" - which of course only includes a certain number and type of religions... am i wrong about that? (so when anyone here uses any form of kafr, i am to understand that that person is including every single human who is not muslim, regardless of anything about any particular individual, their nature, their beliefs, or anything else.......) mwishka (who's not really likin the things she's hearin.....:() (and a p.s. to a later post, below: well, yep, i think that most pagans and "idolators" might be called polytheists.......) |
| 07/26/02 at 19:54:36 |
| mwishka |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/26/02 at 14:55:23 |
| [slm] Now im getting confused with all this language stuff too :'( Im going to take back my statement of [quote]mushriks (kaffirs other than the people of the book)[/quote] because I dont know the arabic language well enough. Im going to ask about this..if anyone else knows please tell. |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| yunus |
| 07/26/02 at 15:00:52 |
| Everyone by their nature is muslim. Everyone is born muslim. All the plants and animals are muslim. All inanimate objects such as rocks are muslim. People who are brought up in another culture and are ignorant of Islam were born muslim and are muslim till the reach puberty at that point based on culture infulences or personal choices people decide whether or not to remain muslim. I dont like to call people kaffirs first because non muslims dont know what it means and it seem derogatory. I think that it is better to describe people as non muslims. The fact is that these people we call kafirs are ignorant of the truth and at one time were muslims we should be more focoused about educating people and enjoing the good then hoping for a peoples destruction who like us were at one time muslims. we should instead bring these lost brothers and sisters back to the truth |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/26/02 at 15:02:09 |
| [slm] I looked up Mushrikun in the back of my Quran..its says Polytheists,pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and His messenger Muhammad (saw)... So now im really confused by this because people of the book would be in this last category, and well, in AlBaqarah verse 221 it says that its not permissible for muslims to marry mushriks. So is this a translation problem? ??? |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| yunus |
| 07/26/02 at 15:04:00 |
| some people of the book such as jews and certain christian groups belive in the oneness of God though |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/26/02 at 15:05:29 |
| [slm] I truely believe its ok to use the term kafir because the Prophet [saw] used it, his companions used it, the scholars use it, and even Allah(swt) used it. I do agree we need to give dawah to these people though. Allahu Alim. |
| 07/26/02 at 15:10:09 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| Fatimah |
| 07/26/02 at 15:09:39 |
| [slm] [quote]some people of the book such as jews and certain christian groups belive in the oneness of God though[/quote] Allah's Messenger [saw] said: "By Him whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, there is none from amongst the Jews and the Christians (of these present nations) who hears about me and then dies without believing in the Message with which I have been sent, but he will be from the dwellers of the (hell) fire." sahih Muslim |
| 07/26/02 at 15:10:53 |
| Fatimah |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| jannah |
| 07/27/02 at 00:43:48 |
| [slm] not sure what this discussion is exactly talking about... mushrik just means one who commits shirk... i guess if we're disputing who we should be making dua for, we should go back to the Quran which says in dua: "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against the Kafireen." |
| Re: Zacarias Moussaoui |
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| mwishka |
| 07/27/02 at 07:38:12 |
| um, nope sis jannah.....not really a question about du'a... you came in on the discussion resulting from a "vocabulary lesson", in which there was no 'dispute', but which raised the benefits and disadvantages of the use of certain terminology, in consideration, i believe, of da'wah. the clarification being sought was any differentiation between people of abraham and other disbelievers.....and what is the best attitude for muslims to have toward kuffar. mwishka |
| 07/27/02 at 08:03:27 |
| mwishka |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |