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| How could she? How could her mother allow it ??? |
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| Caraj |
| 07/30/02 at 22:33:11 |
| Hi everyone, it's been a long time. Even though I have been away all of you have been in my thoughts. Well, to the topic of this thread. My youngest (23 y/o) did his first skydive here recently. All were there, my husband and I, My son's wife, my oldest son and his wife and my mother. One of the young ladies who jumped, when she was done started taking off her coveralls. In front of everyone. Underneath was something less than bra and panties. Like a small bikini. I was appauled. A skydiving school was not the place for this. I was not only appauled in general but totally disgusted for my poor daughter-in-laws. (who I might add and very sweet and very beautiful young ladies who for non-muslims dress conservatively) This young lady was early 20's and her own mother was there ( a jumper herself) Where was this young ladies self respect? How could her mom watch and smile and joke with others while her daughter undressed in front of men of all ages and strangers?????????????????? I wanted so much to say something not only to her but to the director of the school. But did not want to embarrass or upset my son. If any of the brothers and sister here had been there how would you of handled it? I walked away and stayed with my daughter-in-laws. It angers me at times thinking back to it. As a mother I couldn't of allowed or stood there and let it go on no matter how old she was. Salaam, Caraj |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Barraa |
| 07/30/02 at 22:57:35 |
| i could feel what you felt sister Caraj. welcome back anywayz....it is disapointing and very rude but what could people do when allah took away shyness from a humans heart? i pray for her inshallah. thanx for thinking about us...i think that most of us thought of u 2, becuz i did. |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Dawn |
| 07/31/02 at 05:47:27 |
| Welcome back, Cara! You have been in our thoughts too! |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| eleanor |
| 07/31/02 at 06:23:51 |
| [slm] welcome back Cara :) Funny, I was just wondering yesterday where you were. To the point in question.. nothing much can be said. Society is degressing rapidly. In some places more than others. Just yesterday there was a report on TV where a young woman went out around the streets in a see through top (with no bra) just to gauge the passers'-by reaction.. Their reaction? Amused, impressed, awed at her self-confidence..etc etc. There was not one negative reaction, and if there was, the TV didn't feel it necessary to show it. Message to the public - it's okay to walk around in a see through top with no bra on, as long as you have a nice figure. This show was aired at around 6pm. Just this morning on the train - commuter traffic - there were two very obviously lesbian ladies, in deep conversation, stroking each other's arm, hands around other's waist. It was difficult to gauge reaction; but I was very uncomfortable and wished to be anywhere else but there. But what can you do? The times they are a changin'.. Morals have gone out the window. Prudes are out, exhibitionists are in. If you can't stand the heat you have to turn off the gas, and get out of there, because they surely aren't going to leave. Like you did. Authu billahi minashaitani rajeem. (I seek refuge in Allah from the devil) peace eleanor |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Kathy |
| 07/31/02 at 08:57:59 |
| She probably thought it was cool, especially after all the 'positive' media response the woman soccer player got after doning her top after winning and swinging it around in the air! It is called desensitization. We see these things so much it begins to become normal. I would absolutely call the managment. Once I walked into K-R-Us in late September with my then very young boy. All the clerks had devil horns on- gearing up for the next months Halloween. I talked to the manager the next day. At first he did not see anything wrong with it, (desensitized) however, once I explained that from a kids point of view it is scary...especially when they don't expect it, in September, and if they want K-R-Us to be a friendly welcoming place. Having the shayton greet you at thier doors is not the costume you would want to wear! :-[ All of a sudden he understood! :P So yes, make a phone call today. I may have had the two responces, said mild enough for her good ole'mom to hear: "I thought this was a sky diving class, not a strippers!" ..the other one I'll IM you...[i]said Momma Mod not wanting to ....[/i] |
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| Marcie |
| 07/31/02 at 10:03:39 |
| [color=Teal] [slm] Sisters, Hey Eleanor that doesn't count! You live in Germany! They have always been more open about that stuff. :P I remember when I lived in Cologne they had an art exhibit of male statues ( :o ) in the center of town. I had to ride past them every day! YUCK! :o :o [wlm] Marcie :-)[/color] |
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| AyeshaZ |
| 07/31/02 at 11:25:11 |
Thats pretty sick sis Cara.. >:( Every single day while driving to school I see this really gross Billboard of 2 twins.. I try to avoid it but sometimes its soo hard to just block it while you are driving. This reminds me something my teacher told us that how Imam Shafi complained of loosing some of his memory cause he ( May Allah(swt) be pleased with him) saw something haram for a couple seconds. Autubillah just imagine how much haram we witness everyday. Welcome back :) |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Barraa |
| 07/31/02 at 13:33:27 |
| you are very right sister ayisha... [quote]To the point in question.. nothing much can be said. Society is degressing rapidly. In some places more than others. Just yesterday there was a report on TV where a young woman went out around the streets in a see through top (with no bra) just to gauge the passers'-by reaction.. Their reaction? Amused, impressed, awed at her self-confidence..etc etc. There was not one negative reaction, and if there was, the TV didn't feel it necessary to show it. Message to the public - it's okay to walk around in a see through top with no bra on, as long as you have a nice figure. This show was aired at around 6pm. [/quote] Astaghfirallah, ealanor this is very bad... and Sister marcie it counts everywhere in the world because everyone will one day be accounted. you guys should visit britain some day. that place has all the dirt (may allah guide those people) my uncle live there and hoh! i think hes getting astray by now. in europe and south africa are the most dirtiest places written in my mind! [i]ya allah help all of the muslims and the ones who try to obey your commands day and night. ya allah help the masakeen, and the yateem, and the people in the middle east and everywhere those who are being tortured. ya allah give the dalimeen a very black day, and torture them, and dont let not even one of them get away, ya rub al 3alameen.[/i] |
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| Aabidah |
| 07/31/02 at 13:45:05 |
| [slm] Astaghfirullah, it's not like we see so much haraam everywhere else we go, that young lady has to do it in a Skydiving School??? SubhanAllah, i agree with everyone else that it is just not acceptable. This past weekend, me and my dad took my sisters to Catskill Game Farm and it was soo hot outside SubhanAllah, around 90-95 F. There was a family next to us that we kept on bumping (not phsical bumping :), but we saw them every time) into as the day passed. The mother had on the shortest shorts (even shorter than her 2 daughters :o) and the 2 daughters were also wearing short shorts. As we walked by them, I felt so proud that even though it was so hot, I was covered and hijabi, and they just kept looking at me. I don't know what they get out of dressing so openly??? May Allahu SubhanaHu Wata'ala guide them if He Wills and keep us guided, if He Wills, on the straight path. ameen [wlm] Betul |
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| Zahra |
| 07/31/02 at 17:04:32 |
| [slm] This incident is so disgusting! :(It seems that this type of immoral dress is becoming the norm of the day.Even young girls of 9 and 10 are wearing tight,skimpy dresses and enough make up to make them look years older.Recently there was a report of a group of young women who decided to earn a living by washing cars wearing next to nothing. >:(Needless to say their business was booming.At least now it's winter here so people are decently covered up! : > [wlm] |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Muneerah134 |
| 07/31/02 at 17:11:09 |
| [quote author=Kathy link=board=sis;num=1028082792;start=0#4 date=07/31/02 at 08:57:59]She probably thought it was cool, especially after all the 'positive' media response the woman soccer player got after doning her top after winning and swinging it around in the air! It is called desensitization. We see these things so much it begins to become normal. [/quote] [slm] I agree with Sis Kathy and everyone who responded, but especially about desensitization. Most folk wouldn't think twice about what we mentioned in these posts. I witnessed something so upsetting over the weekend, I was frozen, unable to do anything but look for my children and ask that Allah forgive me for not getting the license plate and trying to report it to the police or someone - they probably wouldn't have believed it either. :'( Because this was so disgusting ... well... let's just say that someone double parked on our block, left his car running and left the video tape in the VCR deck in his car. He had one of those cars with screens on the back of both headrests, so that passengers could watch a tape while riding. That wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for what was on the tape, for all, including the children playing outside, to see. Audhu billah!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o Sister Ayesha's quote from Imam Shafi is a good one - I think I lost a huge chunk Saturday. >:( I am still upset about it. My husband said he probably would've pulled the guy out of the car! (alhamdullillah he was at work! ;)) We do become used to it, but alhamdullilah I think that is why we as Muslims are such standouts in the midst of all of this. We fear the accounting so don't go around doing (or condoning) the stuff we see everyday. May Allah guide us all and grant us paradise. :-) Muneerah [] |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| BroHanif |
| 07/31/02 at 18:47:02 |
| [slm] Nice to see that you are back Caraj. Well Caraj said as it may be that is the norm, society has dropped to sucha level that if you caution or give a kind word about what you saw and the incidents obviously preceding it you would be classed as some sort of bore, nun or even in some cases I've heard Taliban woman. Here in the UK its the same as well, theres one company called French Connection and thier T-Shirts are so deemining that you think man what the hell. Even some muslims are wearing these offensive T-Shirts and what can you say....nothing but feel sad and angry. This is my daily routine and you'll soon see how sad it is: Get out of the house and drive the car. Pass the billboard on the road and you have some markeing campaing that is using a woman as the selling item, a recent one in the UK is the Coca Cola advert where it shows a mans and a womans lower private bodys. Sit on the train or stand at the station and you have women and men in these ridiculous French Connection T-Shirts and skimpy tops. Get the paper and you see some other woman selling her body for a product or another boring story about Big Brother on how they performed certained sexual acts in the Big Brother House. Big Brother was a voyer programme in the UK on a number of people living in a house who had CCTV in all areas of the room. Get to work make sukar that its not as bad as where I worked before where women wore see through blouses, I'm in IT so its dominated by mostly men (sorry Jannah) Lunch and the suns out, and guess what you see women and men in shorts and bikinis. Go home and same process repeats itself. As society continues to degrade further I think there will be some people who have a concious and feel it necessary to go against the tide of sexual advertisments yet we know those people are commonly referred to as Fundamentalists or Extremists. Theres also a hadith(saying of the prophet [saw] ) that until you don't have shame then do whatever pleases you, how true is that today. May Allah save us from this sin. Ameen. Slaams Hanif |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Ameeraana |
| 07/31/02 at 20:11:22 |
| [color=Purple][/color]First of all, yes, it may bother you all how these women are dressing nowadays, but what can you do? There is no law saying you cannot wear a bikini to go skydiving is there? There are no laws about how short your shorts and how little your shirts have to be.... in the western world, unfortunately, sex rules most everything... and so sex is what the majority of people are going to sell. What can you do? If you are living in a society where women and men can dress freely how they wish, then that is how it is going to be.... Do you really think the western world is going to ever be a conservative society? I think not... the only thing to do is keep on showing an example and teach people and hope some will realize the truth of Allah and His words. :P I for one am one who used to dress "hoochie" and hey, back then I never understood why I was being treated the way I was alway saying, "Just because I dress like this you can't treat me thay way!!" :obut now that I look at those clothes I used to wear (I still have some in my closet) I am amazed I was brave enough to dress like I did. Now I know why I was treated the way I was. But, hey, all in all, I loved the attention--I was at a point in my life where I believed I needed to be beautiful and to have all the attention of men on me. And boy did I get it...but towards the end it got a little too much for me...I started to hate the way men would try to touch me or the way they spoke to me. I stopped going to nightclubs altogether also because it irritated me so much the way men spoke and touched me. But now, thank God, I don't need that anymore. I have learned and lived a little and realize that true respect is what I deserve. The blame is to be put on a society based on sex, sex, sex, and only sex. The younger generations need more positive rolemodels who use their minds and not their bodies to sell. There are many new singer/songwriters whom, do all their own work and have actual talent out there. But guess who sells more? Brittany Spears (she does not write her own songs and music) Christina Aguilara,and so on.... :( I mean, even our own ex-President Bill Clinton??? And Monica Lewinsky...look how famous she became.. sad sad sad Hey, I fell for all the "sins" of my society but I learned. Oh yes I did!! I actually used to hang out with a Muslim girl and, oh poor girl, when I would pick her up for school in the mornings with my hoochie dress or my little shorts and shirts... she was so patient though, and was never pushy about teaching me about Islam... I have great respect for the religion, and, although I am not a Muslim (still studying it), I even learned about my religion, Buddhism, and learned that many of the teachings also are the same as the Quran. I like being respected for my intelligence instead of the degradation I mistook for the "respect" I was once searching for in the past, and I will never go back!! |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Caraj |
| 07/31/02 at 20:20:12 |
| Thank you everyone for your responses. This whole thing bugs me and if I had a daughter I would not allow her to dress in such a manor. I know what some of you mean by the word...... desensatize. I talked to my husband about this and his response? "So, it's nothing less than you would see on the beach" Well we were not on the beach we were at a skydiving place. Seems like the whole world is desensatizing to sexual and violent things. I wonder if my husband ever has a daughter if he would want her dressing (or rather undressing like that in front of men) HEHE>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he is standing behind me reading this and said>>>>>>NO :D :D :D :D :D I wanted so much to go to the director and tell her this was offensive to me and my daughter-in-laws, but I didn't want to cause embarrassment and my son would of been most displeased. And besides :( this young lady I speak of :o is the one who re-packs the parachuts So maybe my mouth was better left shut ::) Maybe I can ask all of you to say a pray and may God/Allah give her a sense of modesty. Salaam My Dear Friends, Cara |
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| Julie |
| 07/31/02 at 21:42:33 |
| It's not just girls and women who wear revealing clothes. There are a lot of guys who think that it's extremely cool to walk around with pants that only come part way above their knees. :o [quote]And besides this young lady I speak of is the one who re-packs the parachuts[/quote] Good idea not to mess with her. ;D Julie :) |
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| Ameeraana |
| 07/31/02 at 23:39:21 |
| [quote][/quote]There are a lot of guys who think that it's extremely cool to walk around with pants that only come part way above their knees.[quote][/quote] :-/ LOOOL, But, hey, most of those guys also wear T-shirts that are 10 times bigger than they are!! Not all, but most. LOL I personally think its fun to wear different styles of clothes. The only thing is, I actually wear clothes and not underwear!! ;D |
| 08/01/02 at 20:09:30 |
| Kathy |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| Kathy |
| 08/01/02 at 08:47:52 |
| [slm] Last night I was watching my son ;-)at Karate[i](tring to read the latest Jummah mag...which seems to be getting better every month!),[/i] and a Mom came over to gab with me. :-)I was slightly irritated- [i](couldn't she see I was trying to read!)[/i], but as always I smiled, closed the magazine and asked how she was doing. While she was talking I couldn't help notice how she was dressed. Se was my age and was wearing a bathing suit ,with jeans and open cover up. [i](I mean if you are going to wear a coverup- button it!)[/i] :P :oHer cleavage was quite apparent.... She was telling me that she just passed her orange belt , [i]which is an incredible feat at our age![/i], with a tongue in cheek I said "That is why you are dressed like that....trying to impress the sensi to get your green belt!" [i](The sensi is all of 29...and she is almost 50 ,so it was an obvious joke)[/i] She and the other ladies laughed and yet I saw her adjust her clothes. ;) The conversation continued for the next hour on other topics and at one point I wryly noticed her buttoning the cover up. At the end, in a humerous tone she said "kathy you made me feel really self concious" I apologized and laughed and said- well look at me, everyone looks naked compared to me! We actually stayed after class and talked for another hour about modesty. She said she did not even think about how she looked and it did not even cross her mind that she was being inappropiate until I had made the first comment. :-[ I think this is all based on that desensitation. |
| 08/01/02 at 08:58:16 |
| Kathy |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| se7en |
| 08/01/02 at 12:13:50 |
| as salaamu alaykum, Hmm.. y'all, this kind of reminds me of a Q & A I read recently.. someone wrote in about how they were trying to convince a non-Muslim friend of theirs not to drink alcohol, and he asked the scholar for some arguments he could use to convince his friend not to drink. The scholar's response was very interesting.. instead of responding with a list of the harms that alcohol can cause an individual and society, he said that discussing something like this with a non-Muslim is not proper, because they were talking about alcohol and it's nature without the context of Islam or belief in Allah. Meaning that, as Muslims we don't believe something is prohibited or commanded because we can come up with a convincing rational argument for or against it.. it's our belief in Allah, and our belief that the teachings of Islam are divinely prescribed that do this.. and perceiving it's harms/benefit is just an added benefit. He said that we need to keep in mind that any rational argument you can come up with for a practice of Islam can be countered or dismissed, except with the understanding that this command was divinely prescribed, and that in in it is wisdom we may not be able to understand or appreciate at a given time. He emphasized that we need to educate people on the trunk of Islam (belief in Allah and tawheed) before worrying about the branches (following the teachings).. because once the trunk is established from it naturally, the branches will emerge. I think all of the above can be applied to what's been discussed in this thread of hijab/modesty. While it's benefits can be seen by many, without an understanding that it is divinely prescribed it can be easily dismissed or countered. So we have to remember to keep things within the context of Islam and belief in Allah. And we also have to understand that we can't impose shari'ah on people that don't believe in Islam!! :) We need to work on teaching the fundamentals - ie belief in Allah, before worrying about these other things. wAllahu a'lam. wasalaamu alaykum :-) |
| 08/01/02 at 12:23:10 |
| se7en |
| Re: How could she? How could her mother allow it ? |
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| AyeshaZ |
| 08/01/02 at 13:38:20 |
| [quote author=se7en link=board=sis;num=1028082792;start=15#17 date=08/01/02 at 12:13:50]as salaamu alaykum,. He said that we need to keep in mind that any rational argument you can come up with for a practice of Islam can be countered or dismissed, except with the understanding that this command was divinely prescribed, and that in in it is wisdom we may not be able to understand or appreciate at a given time. He emphasized that we need to educate people on the trunk of Islam (belief in Allah and tawheed) before worrying about the branches (following the teachings).. because once the trunk is established from it naturally, the branches will emerge. wAllahu a'lam. wasalaamu alaykum :-)[/quote] Asalamu alykum, Sis se7en thats sooo true!!!! I remember once our teacher telling us that always start w/ tawheed and never let them go around in circles about other issues. The concept of tawheed is soo powerful and deep w/in everyone resonates once you start speaking about it :-X |
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