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| War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| muqaddar |
| 08/09/02 at 16:16:55 |
| IT'S A NOVEMBER 6 WAR (source The Mirror : 9/8/2002) EXCLUSIVE: Eight reasons why the U.S. will attack Saddam this year By Tom Newton Dunn and Ben Taylor AMERICA will attack Iraq on November 6, US defence experts believe. They are so sure of the date that they have posted an Iraq Countdown clock on the internet to show the minutes ticking away. Five of the US Navy's aircraft carriers will be close to the Gulf region. Weather and political factors also favour the date picked by international think tank GlobalSecurity.org for the start of the campaign to topple Saddam Hussein. Respected commentator John Pike, director of the Washington-based organisation, told the Daily Mirror: "Iraq is going to happen a lot sooner than most people think." The eight key pointers are: - President Bush must have resolved the Iraq situation when his re-election campaign begins in under 18 months, and a war and clean-up will take at least a year; - Delaying an attack will give Saddam more time to prepare his defences; - A war in the desert would be almost impossible before October because it is too hot for troops to wear protective bio-chemical suits; - In December and January, temperatures are low enough to freeze diesel oil, cloud hinders air visibility, and desert snow can hamper tanks; - Elections to the US Congress finish on November 5. President Bush cannot fight a war in the month-long run-up; - Media speculation and government leaks had all predicted an invasion in February or March 2003, so early November might have given the US an element of surprise; - The military will have time to replenish stocks of smart bombs that were depleted by the Afghanistan campaign; - Five US aircraft carriers will be close by, together with Royal Navy carrier Ark Royal, providing an invasion base under the cover of routine deployment. Aircraft carriers are expected to play a key role in any assault on Iraq. Several allies, including Saudi Arabia and Jordan, that gave facilities in the 1991 Gulf War have ruled out the same support for America's drive to oust the Iraqi dictator. Each American carrier will have a full complement of F18 Hornet fighter-bombers and a strike force of up to 1,000 Marines. All five will be battle ready and within five days sailing from the region on manoeuvres by the beginning of November. Ark Royal's war games mission in the Mediterranean, announced this week, is due to finish on November 5. Mr Pike said: "The opportunity to attack without having to announce new deployments to the world beforehand is likely to be far too good for Pentagon war-planners to ignore. "You can go to war within three weeks of making a decision about it, and within one week of the world finding out. "The President is under a lot of political pressure for results and his window is pretty tight. "If I was a betting man, November 6 is where all my money would be." |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| humble_muslim |
| 08/09/02 at 16:50:31 |
| [slm] Wonderful...so the end of the world begins on Novemeber 6th. |
| NS |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| Anonymous |
| 08/12/02 at 05:07:59 |
| Humble Muslim and others, I am a US military spouse. Please don't believe everything you hear. Think about it? The media has to use something to get you to read and listen. I have know many in the US military and some over the last decade or so that were close to action and I can tell you they DID NOT even know the day before let alone three months in advance when things would start. I'd also like to take this opportunity to say, us Americans are not all dumb, living in a bubble, etc. I'm not saying there are not some real idiots in my country. But not all of us. Like Jannah said in one post, saying a whole country/people are dumb is like saying all Muslims are terrorist. These comments are just not so. I know there are many Muslims in the US services and there are even Muslim clergy in the services. Muslims are respect in our services as any other religon is. Please know I came here to learn and make friends, not to get my American teeth knocked in, nor to be belittle, be rated and put down. My country may not always do what I or others feel it should, believe me I have other ideas of other ways things can be done. But if it's so bad why are millions flocking here for living and employment and education. Please don't judge a whole country or it's people by a few. And please don't believe everything you read and hear. Even the men and wonen on those ships and in the troops have no idea when action is being taken till they are told. |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| humble_muslim |
| 08/12/02 at 08:44:57 |
| Hi Anon, I understand what you are saying, but according to a CNN poll, 51% of pollers (a sample of 80000) responded yes to the following question : "Is the threat from Iraq enough to justify American casualties ?" Now when half of the people in this country think this way, it is very hard NOT to think of Americans as totally unaware of the repurcussions of an attack on Iraq. Forget "dumb" Americans, this is just plain scary, that so many people are willing to believe the leaders. IMHO, an attack on Iraq will be catastorphic for the whole world. |
| NS |
| 08/12/02 at 12:49:12 |
| Kashif |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| sofia |
| 08/12/02 at 22:27:25 |
| As-salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah, Peace, Anon- I'm glad you wrote this, I was beginning to wonder what some of the non-Muslim American lurkers were thinking out there (besides our very own Dawn, Mwishka, Mike, etc). I'd agree with you on most points. Just a side comment, most of members here from America are, in fact, American. It's just that, if we're Muslim, we tend to identify ourselves as Muslim first, ethnicity and nationality, etc are less important. In any case, I'd also like to point out for once and for all: CNN polls (and the like) are *not* representative of the total population. Think about it: how many people log onto CNN? How many of those are aware of the polls? How many of those post their vote? And then, compare the average CNN voter to the average slice of Americans. How representative are the results, compared to what the "average slice of Americans" would vote for? There really is no conclusive evidence, one way or the other, when it comes to these types of polls. You'd have to have a more random sample of the population (like CNN knocking on the average American's door, not knowing who lives there, doing this across the country, even if it's only 30-60 households, since not everyone has internet access) to get a true reflection of America's opinions, so disregard most of these voluntary media polls. Rubbish, I tell ya, rubbish. And the worst part is, those that conduct these polls and commentators know that very well (and if they don't, God help them), and *still*, they continue to use terms like "50% of Americans..." AAaaaaaaaaaaggghhhhhhhhh Anyways, the reason I wanted to respond was because I firmly believe that there is a silent majority out there in the West that knows what's going on (maybe not exactly, but hey, do any of us?) and/or dislikes it in their hearts. Truth is not that difficult to distinguish from falsehood, but sometimes, the details and distractions blur our view from it (and man, are the distractions getting more and more obviously ridiculous). So props to the seekers of truth. |
| NS |
| 08/12/02 at 22:28:54 |
| sofia |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 08/13/02 at 12:40:13 |
I'm glad you wrote this, I was beginning to wonder what some of the non-Muslim American lurkers were thinking out there (besides our very own Dawn, Mwishka, Mike, etc). I'd agree with you on most points. for some reason i thought Dawn was muslim. I understand what you are saying, but according to a CNN poll, 51% of pollers (a sample of 80000) responded yes to the following question : i think CNN is padding its numbers. I can't believe that 80,000 people watch CNN and actually respond to something, maybe they are trying to get advertising money. now the question at hand of what we think about US invading iraq. I would put our chances of doing so at about 10%. I think it is a big bluffing game going on , but the one thing about bluffing, You have to make it look real, and also be able to respond when and if your bluff is called. I , personally do not see Iraq as a major threat to the USA, although i do see him as a threat to his own people and possibly some neighboring countries. I think a threat of war could be a very effective way to topple him, ALthough I have limited knowledge of IRaq, I would think that his military having to think about going up against the usa would be a task that they would not do again. They came close to going to a major civil war last time. I would also think that an invasion of Iraq would end Bush's chances of a second term. |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| Anonymous |
| 08/13/02 at 16:29:29 |
| Humble Muslim I'm not sure where you're from but 80,000 isn't even a med size city much less all the cities and states. I sometimes wonder who they poll and where? Beside how many of you on this website always say CNN isn't a great one to listen to. Oh Humble Muslim, we are not stupid, nor do we live in a bubble (oh ok well some do :) ) I don't know what to think anymore. I wish I could change things. All I know is you can't believe everything you hear and you can't predict a war, the folks in the armed forces don't even know themselves. I am not saying this is or isn't true but I can say any specific date about this or anything is foolish. Tell you what, I came here to learn, I am not opne to hear something and believe it without checking the facts. I have questions, maybe you or others on the board can direct me to reading and studying. Here in the US we hear Iraq has these weapons and have even used tested them on their own citizens, anyone hear about this? It was in our news ages ago. Why have Iran and Iraq fought so much? What are the issues there? Why do Pakistan and India have problems with each other? Why do the Arab nations get together and decide what is acceptable behavior or their countries and if they see a threat, they take care of it themselves? If Iraq can afford weapons why can they not afford to farm and feed their own citizens? I hear about santions but do they not have dirt, water and sunshine to grow things? Meat, goats, chickens and such to raise and eat? These are sincere questions. Feel free to educate me. I am of open mind and heart. |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| humble_muslim |
| 08/13/02 at 20:58:41 |
| I will try to answer your questions as truthfully as possible. "Why have Iran and Iraq fought so much? What are the issues there?" Well, you should ask the American and British politicians for this one. Iraq was enocuarged to fight aginst Iran by the USA nd the UK, who supplied them with the chemical and biological weapons. "Why do Pakistan and India have problems with each other?" Most of the problesm are over Kashmir, and the GROSS human rights violations on the people of Kashmir by the Indian army, as documented by Amnetsy International et. al. "Why do the Arab nations get together and decide what is acceptable behavior or their countries and if they see a threat, they take care of it themselves? " I agree with u on this. There is no way Saudi and Kuwait should have asked USA and UK to help them in Gulf War I. But of course, this was also in the US's national interest. "If Iraq can afford weapons why can they not afford to farm and feed their own citizens? I hear about santions but do they not have dirt, water and sunshine to grow things? Meat, goats, chickens and such to raise and eat?" This is a complicated issue. Saddam Hussein is a criminal lunatic who does not care for his people, but sanctions have only helped him gain more control over his people, who are the ones really suffering. See http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/, a non-muslim American site, to find out the truth about the sanctions on Iraq. BTW I live in the US, have been for 9 years. But if US attacks Iraq, I will find it hard to justify my conscience in staying here. |
| NS |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/13/02 at 22:28:19 |
| [slm] Anonymous you mentioned you don't live in a bubble, but many of the questions your asking sound like you don't really have knowledge about whats going on in the world. I think this is pretty true for most Americans, we hear only what the Jewish crontolled media tells us. [quote author=Anonymous link=board=ummah;num=1028924216;start=0#6 date=08/13/02 at 16:29:29]Here in the US we hear Iraq has these weapons and have even used tested them on their own citizens, anyone hear about this? It was in our news ages ago. Why have Iran and Iraq fought so much? What are the issues there? Why do Pakistan and India have problems with each other? Why do the Arab nations get together and decide what is acceptable behavior or their countries and if they see a threat, they take care of it themselves? If Iraq can afford weapons why can they not afford to farm and feed their own citizens? I hear about santions but do they not have dirt, water and sunshine to grow things? Meat, goats, chickens and such to raise and eat? These are sincere questions. Feel free to educate me. I am of open mind and heart. [/quote] Here is excerpt from an article, entitled No Faith in US Policy, by a journalist named Eric Magolis. If you really want to know why people in the middle east hate the U.S., here are just a few reasons: Syria, 1948 - The U.S. overthrows the regime; Syria turns anti-U.S. Iran, 1954 - The U.S. overthrows nationalist Mossadegh, puts the shah in power. Result: Ayatollah Khomeini's 1979 Islamic revolution. Egypt, 1955 - The U.S. tried to kill nationalist Gamal Abdel Nasser. He turns to the Soviets. Iraq, 1958 - The U.S. puts Col. Kassem in power. He turns into an anti-American lunatic. Indonesia, 1967 - The U.S. overthrows Sukarno. The army and mobs then kill 500,000 Sukarno supporters. Libya, 1969 - The U.S. helps a young officer, Moammar Khadafy, seize power in Libya, then tries to kill him in 1986. Iraq, 1975 - The U.S. helps young Saddam Hussein seize power. In 1979, the U.S. encourages Saddam to invade Iran in an effort to crush Iran's Islamic revolution. Some 700,000 die in the war. Lebanon, 1983 - U.S. forces intervene in the civil war to prop up the Christian government, 240 U.S. Marines die. Kuwait/Iraq, 1991 - The U.S. goes to war against former ally Saddam, but keeps him in power. Somalia, 1992 - The U.S. intervenes in a civil war, loses men and flees. Iraq, 1996 - A U.S. attempt to create a Kurd mini-state collapses under Iraqi attack. CIA agents run for their lives. ;======= Even in Pakistan and India it was the U.K. that colonized that area and caused the problems that we see even today. What Muslims want is for the US to stay out of their lands and stop putting evil dictators in power. The US put Saddam Hussein into power!!! |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| Dawn |
| 08/14/02 at 11:26:16 |
| [quote author=ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1028924216;start=0#5 date=08/13/02 at 12:40:13]for some reason i thought Dawn was muslim.[/quote] Hmmm, not by the standard definitions, at least since she last checked. Dawn is currently, umm, monotheistic but unaffiliated. |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 08/14/02 at 12:37:17 |
Hmmm, not by the standard definitions, at least since she last checked. Dawn is currently, umm, monotheistic but unaffiliated. sorry about that |
| Re: War on this November 6th 2002 |
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| Muneerah134 |
| 08/14/02 at 17:59:53 |
| [quote author=bhaloo link=board=ummah;num=1028924216;start=0#8 date=08/13/02 at 22:28:19][slm] Even in Pakistan and India it was the U.K. that colonized that area and caused the problems that we see even today. What Muslims want is for the US to stay out of their lands and stop putting evil dictators in power. The US put Saddam Hussein into power!!! [/quote] And "the beat goes on" Excellent Bhaloo. But why stop with the Middle East? Why not go to South America? I believe the policy of our government there was (is?) to hinder any change in government if the change was to a Socialist or Communist group. It's the same in the ME now with potentially even more dangerous possiblities. Always looking at short term monetary benefits over long-term disaster. I think the "rabbit hole" of truth and lies goes very, very deep indeed. :-) Muneerah [] who could be, and often is wrong, and prays she is this time. |
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