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| U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| Red |
| 09/17/02 at 12:26:30 |
| [slm], I wanted to ask everyone, what their feeling are on Iraq. I am not really sure about this, but I am trying to figure out what the United States exactly wants from Iraq. I have heard alot of things. Does the US really believe Iraq has nuclear weapons and that capablility? Or do they really want oil from Iraq? I am not wishing to start a heated debate, but rather what everyone thinks could possibly happen and why the US is really pushing the Iraq issue. More than any other country the US seems to be really pushing at the issue. Do you guys think Iraq is a problem facing any country? Nobody can doubt that Saddam is not a good person, but this whole thing seems to not concern what the Iraq people are suffering. wasalam, red http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020917/ap_on_re_us/us_iraq_diplomacy_22 U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution Tue Sep 17,10:31 AM ET By GEORGE GEDDA, Associated Press Writer UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Despite Iraq's promise of unfettered U.N. weapons inspections, Secretary of State Colin Powell ( news - web sites) said Tuesday he will seek a new U.N. Security Council resolution spelling out the steps Iraq needs to take to meet 11-year old U.N. demands. "We will press for a resolution," Powell said. "If they (the Iraqis) are serious, they will want one." Powell spoke during a photo session with Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal while, back at the White House, a senior administration official corralled reporters to try to head off any slowing in what Bush advisers had seen as momentum toward action by the Security Council and Congress. This official, briefing reporters on condition of anonymity, dismissed Iraq's offer as more of the same "rope a dope" that Saddam Hussein ( news - web sites) played with the world during the 1990s and said it shows Congress and the United Nations ( news - web sites) that he responds to pressure. "The last thing they should do now is lift the pressure," the official said. Iraq made its inspection offer Monday night, apparently hopeful that it will generate strong international opposition to the U.S. goal of installing a new regime in Baghdad, by force if necessary. What the Iraq proposal means in practice remained to be worked out. It is not clear, for example, whether President Saddam Hussein would allow the United Nations to inspect his palaces for evidence he has or is trying to develop chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. Saddam's offer is the latest example of a greater Iraqi diplomatic sophistication of late. He has sought to improve relations with his neighbors while simultaneously wooing three of the Security Council's permanent members: Russia, China and France. President Bush ( news - web sites)'s speech last Thursday to the U.N. General Assembly put the spotlight on Saddam's promises of 12 years ago to disarm — promises the administration says he has consistently ignored, imperiling world peace. Bush seemed to be making headway, finding a number of countries agreeing with his thesis that Saddam was making a mockery of the Security Council by systematically flouting its resolutions calling for Iraq to certify that its weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed. Saudi Arabia, which said only a month ago that it would not allow U.S. use of Saudi territory for an attack against Iraq, recently reversed itself but only in the event that the Security Council was amenable to the use of force. Before Monday night, Bush's speech had framed the debate among diplomats here over the Iraqi question. Now, part of the mix will be Saddam's four-paragraph letter to the United Nations that his decision to allow the inspectors' return was taken "to remove any doubts that Iraq still possesses weapons of mass destruction." Not long after the letter was made public, the White House signaled its strategy, suggesting the Iraqi move had really had changed nothing. Officials called it "a tactical step by Iraq in hopes of avoiding strong U.N. Security Council action." The administration seeks three things in a new U.N. resolution: a list of Iraqi violations of previous resolutions; steps Iraq needs to take to comply; and consequences Iraq will face if it does not comply. U.S. officials least impressed with Saddam's offer of renewed inspections are those most convinced that inspections are not the answer. Vice President Dick Cheney ( news - web sites) said in August: "A debate with him (Saddam) over inspectors ... would be an effort by him to obfuscate and delay and avoid having to live up to the accords that he signed at the end of the Gulf War ( news - web sites)." Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, another critic of inspections, said on Sunday: "Imagine a September 11 with weapons of mass destruction. It's not 3,000; it's tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children." Many countries, France included, agree with the United States that disarmament of Iraq is a worthy goal. But beyond that, agreement is elusive. French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin sounded much like Secretary of State Colin Powell on Monday when he said, "We have one goal, which is the fight against proliferation." But de Villepin and Powell part ways on the issue of regime change. "This is not included in the mandate of the United Nations," de Villepin said. "If we begin discussing it, where will it end? It's a totally different process." |
| 09/17/02 at 12:33:57 |
| Red |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 09/17/02 at 13:02:38 |
| I would put the chance of the US going to war with Iraq at about 15% chance. Right now it is a huge game of bluff. The Us does not want Iraq to be in a position to take the oil fields of Saudi Arabia or others. I have been in contact negotiations in business with a couple of Iraqis, and if Saddam is anything like them, it has to go down to the wire, and you have to have at tleast a couple of confrontational meetings. A lot of bluster on both sides to show their manhood, then someone will bend. Saddam, I would think is all about saving himself to live another da and if he thinks he will lose he would back down. I doubt that he has a lot of allies from other countries, so it would be who they despise worse or who would be the better long term to deal with, the US or Saddam. |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 09/17/02 at 18:42:38 |
| is it me feeling lonely, or is it real quiet in here since people are back from vacation or are people still in a cruise mode? I was thinking of muj and maybe bring him back to shake things up. |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| yunus |
| 09/18/02 at 00:05:43 |
| if violation of un resolutions were are reason to go to war we should be attacking israel furhter the US has broken there share of resolutions way more then 16 |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| BrKhalid |
| 09/18/02 at 03:57:27 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]The Us does not want Iraq to be in a position to take the oil fields of Saudi Arabia or others[/quote] Interesting comment Mike especially from an American non Muslim!!! You really think that? That this war for "regime change" is about securing oil reserves for the States or is Bush trying to be the world's policeman and taking out a potential rogue leader? One thing I would love to know as Sr Red pointed out in her original post is why we are we going through this? In Islam actions are judged by intention. I would love to know what Bush's real intentions are. Unfortunately we probably will never know. |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 09/19/02 at 20:24:56 |
| Interesting comment Mike especially from an American non Muslim!!! You really think that? That this war for "regime change" is about securing oil reserves for the States or is Bush trying to be the world's policeman and taking out a potential rogue leader? One thing I would love to know as Sr Red pointed out in her original post is why we are we going through this? In Islam actions are judged by intention. I would love to know what Bush's real intentions are. Khalid Unfortunately we probably will never know. I would think that there are various reasons for going to war with Iraq, and I would think part of it is oil. If Saddam was in charge of..hmm lets say Uruguay and we had no interests, I doubt that we would be paying attention to him. But if Iraq would be in a position to take over Saudi Arabia, I would think that would be more destabilizing than the US taking out Saddam. Would I be wrong in saying that? I doubt that the Saudis would have let us use their country as a staging area in the last skirmish we had if they did not percieve Iraq as a real threat, especially as to how sensitive it is for non muslims to be on what most muslims would consider sacred land. You can ask about the Saudis intention just as easily as you can ask what the US intentions are. It is self interest. That is the way governments work: power and self interest, just a fact of life. Thats why I would consider myself libertarian. I think people have to keep reigning in the power of governments at every facet and every chance they get. Posted by: yunus Posted on: Sep 18th, 2002, 12:05am if violation of un resolutions were are reason to go to war we should be attacking israel furhter the US has broken there share of resolutions way more then 16 It is probably true, but you forgot on thing, you only go to war if you think you can win. |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| UmmWafi |
| 09/20/02 at 21:58:06 |
| [slm] I am apolitical so the best of times I just read the papers and ask myself "Wha.. ?". However, several points I have been pondering about regarding this whole Irag thingy. 1) Ok..Iraq did invade Kuwait alll those years ago (heck I was still in Uni that time) but hey almost all the major countries in the world were involved in some military offensives and please don't think I am being selective when I say this but doesn't Israel have tons of nuclear armaments and didn't Israel refuse to sign the world nuclear treaty thingy and ehem...I really find it hard to consider Israel as a peace-loving non-offensive state (the current Prime Minister is wanted for war crimes ?). So uhhhh why aren't peeps making a hullabaloo abt this ? Why are we not imposing a UN inspection or war ultimatum on THEM ? 2) I figure if someone wants to have a regime change in another country, then shouldn't that same one consider his/her own country's state of regime ? Aside from the American chest-thumping of democracy and the land of the brave and free, I am sorry to say hey hey hey not everyone thinks that the American administration is the best model ? So do we force the Bush Admin to institute change ? Oh one itsy bitsy minor point, ummmm shouldn't like the PEOPLE of the country decide what kinda regime THEY want ? I dunno... 3) Lets see now, Iraq has agreed to let UN inspectors in, the world leaders are not cmfortable abt attacking Iraq in light of INSUFFICIENT evidences on top of the new developments and yet US "has the ability and intention to proceed with a massive military attack on Iraq even without a UN resolution" in order to rid the world of possible threat. Uh....duh..I guess I ain't bright but don't that just smack ya of bullyism let alone terrorism ? Hell, the report to Senate and Congress ain't even completed (let alone convincingly true) and Bush has already blown the war trumpet ? Whatevah. 4) Does the US actually think the rest of the world population is stoopid ? I mean they produce half-baked reasons and expect us to uhh...believe ? I am NO anti-America. I love and respect all human lives, regardless of race. But, I guess my ignorance and disinterest in world politics have not immuned me to the fact that for years and years now, the US has managed to deprive the average Iraqi person the opportunity to realise their dream with those regrettable sanctions. Now they are gonna finish their business by attacking the PEOPLE again; attacking their peace, attacking their right to stability, and above all, attacking their right to live life without the holier-than-thou intervention of the US. I just think that's not right :( (I have been studying reports, official and unofficial ones, from first persons' accounts, about condition of living in Iraq post Gulf War). Well, in the words of the honourable Madeleine Albright when asked whether she thinks it was worth sacrificing the many Iraqis lives especially the children all these years just so US can get its way. She answered : "Yes it was" Wallahualam bissawab. PS Yeah it is kinda quiet here :) |
| 09/20/02 at 22:03:35 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 09/20/02 at 23:46:31 |
| ? So do we force the Bush Admin to institute change ? Oh one itsy bitsy minor point, ummmm shouldn't like the PEOPLE of the country decide what kinda regime THEY want ? I dunno... i agree, we will be voting in another couple of months for some minor regime change and 2 more years for a major regime change. When does Iraq get to do this? Maybe when Saddam is out? I hope and pray for the best for the people of Iraq. but not sure how they will get there. But it is a dead end road with Saddam's regime. If the US lifts sanctions it will be a matter of time before he takes aim at either kuwait, Saudi Arabia or some other. Maybe some of their neighbors can figure out a way to get rid of him? |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| Red |
| 09/21/02 at 00:21:59 |
| [slm], What i just don't understand is how governments can sit here and point fingers and point guns (at least preparing to) at Iraq and ignore what Israel is currently doing! It really, really upsets me at how people can turn a blind eye over politics. I just don't understand. I can only pray that Allah helps all of us during these difficult times. wasalam, red |
| 09/21/02 at 00:29:04 |
| Red |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| A_Stranger |
| 09/21/02 at 13:02:28 |
| [color=Red]The Prophet [saw] said: [i] "It is expected that the nations will call each other from all horizons, as diners calling each other to feast from a platter of food in front of them."[/i] A person asked the Prophet (saw): would that be because of our small number that day? The Prophet (saw) said,[i] "No, but you will be rubbish like the rubbish of flood water. Allah will put Wahn into your hearts and remove the fear from the hearts of your enemies because of your love for the world and your hate of death".[/i] In another narration it was said: "and what is the Wahn, O Messenger of Allah?" He (saw) said: [i]"love of the world and the hate for fighting."[/i][/color] Narrated by Ahmad with a good chain. Narrated by Abu Daud with the words [i]"hate for death"[/i], and it is a sahih hadith. |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| UmmWafi |
| 09/22/02 at 21:12:18 |
| [quote author=ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1032279990;start=0#7 date=09/20/02 at 23:46:31] i agree, we will be voting in another couple of months for some minor regime change and 2 more years for a major regime change.[/quote] So what happens in the two years of the current regime rule ? The US wasted a lot of peoples' money trying to bring Clinton to court, produce evidence and voila he is scot free over a difference in a technical definition of sex. Like whatever. U are right. All regimes act in self interest and no man who acts in self interest woul` spare a thot for others. Neither does anyone who have reaped the benefits of self-interest would wanna lose that power. Thats why I think the current situation everywhere, not just in States, stinks. [quote] When does Iraq get to do this? Maybe when Saddam is out? I hope and pray for the best for the people of Iraq. but not sure how they will get there. But it is a dead end road with Saddam's regime. If the US lifts sanctions it will be a matter of time before he takes aim at either kuwait, Saudi Arabia or some other. Maybe some of their neighbors can figure out a way to get rid of him?[/quote] Do we actually know what is going on anywhere ? U know, we can only know bits and pieces from what the media tells us and that ain't much. I personally feel that injustices done in a dictatorship is less despicable than ridiculous bullying done in the name of democracy. Who knows. And please, u honestly think it is the US sanctions that are preventing Iraq rom further attacking others ? What exactly are your sanctions ? Arms ? Well well...I do seem to remember the US supplying arms to Iran despite them being the avowed enemy. So u think Iraq cannot get arms somehow ? Ok what next ? Ahh trade sanctions. Who do u think US is kidding. Trade sanctions except oil for purchase of food and necessities. Has Ms Albright or Bush Sr been to Iraq after the sanctions took effect 5 years down the road ? Perhaps they should and report to Congress how effective their so-called sanctions have been in curbing the axis of evil. Go report to Congress what the Iraqis term as necessities. For a country that basically produce the highest amount of food waste annually, the Govt seem to think the Iraqis should have basic meals, bare medical facilities (before bombing these in the name of arms targets) and rundown schools. Oh I get it. Weaken the people of Iraq so they can stand up against Saddam. Brilliant ! Well Mike, I am sorry if I seem harsh but I guess I am tired of the same ole sh*bleep*. Everywhere. The past one year has been painful for the Americans but it is equally exhaustive and painful for Muslims everywhere too. I am kinda immune now being stared at at Immigration checkpoints (and even thoroughly checked just cos I wear a headscarf when others just breeze thru). To get an inkling of our experience try imagining the world despising skinny white guys after the Oklahoma bombing. Try imagining the pilot asking u to leave the plane cos u are a skinny white boy. Try imagining your every words are cause of suspicions just cos u are a skinny white boy. Try imagining u are hated just cos u are a skinny white boy. What I am NOT immuned to is when people, anyone, don't value life. Any life. Peace. Wallahualam bissawab |
| 09/22/02 at 21:16:55 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: U.S. Presses U.N. Iraq Resolution |
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| BrKhalid |
| 09/24/02 at 07:32:22 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote] What i just don't understand is how governments can sit here and point fingers and point guns (at least preparing to) at Iraq and ignore what Israel is currently doing! It really, really upsets me at how people can turn a blind eye over politics. I just don't understand. I can only pray that Allah helps all of us during these difficult times.[/quote] Why would America ask the UN to enforce resolutions against Iraq but at the same time not ask for the enforcement of resolutions against Israel? |
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