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Hypotheticals
BrKhalid
09/20/02 at 05:53:27
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

Here's a hypothetical situation for you:

You're a manager of a department at work and have a new recruit starting.

You give him his training and allow him to flourish within the department and you soon realise he can take on extra responsibilities.

He becomes a respected member of the team.

Then one day he begins to question your judgement and decisions.

Assuming you haven't lost the plot and are still making the correct decisions how do you deal with this situation?
Re: Hypotheticals
Kathy
09/22/02 at 12:23:46
[wlm]
[quote]Then one day he begins to question your judgement and decisions. [/quote]

Is it wrong to question someone? ??? Perhaps he is trying to learn why you made a decision. He may have a different idea and wonder why you choose the decision you did.

;-)You could use this as a training. It is kind of like the 14 year old who thinks they know more than Dad :o. He does not have enough experience as Dad, and may not even realize that he does not know it all- even tho he thinks he does!

In production a new employee will come in with new ideas, not knowing that they have been previously tried and failed :P. On the other hand if you have trained him well....  :-[maybe he will.. come up with a better solution! ;)
Re: Hypotheticals
BrKhalid
09/24/02 at 05:38:35
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]Is it wrong to question someone?  Perhaps he is trying to learn why you made a decision. He may have a different idea and wonder why you choose the decision you did.[/quote]

Indeed he may, but if this "questioning" starts to take an arrogant tone then how do you deal with that?


[quote]You could use this as a training. It is kind of like the 14 year old who thinks they know more than Dad . He does not have enough experience as Dad, and may not even realize that he does not know it all- even tho he thinks he does![/quote]


If it gets to the level of ingratitude though? How do you deal with that?
Re: Hypotheticals
jannah
09/24/02 at 09:35:44
[wlm]

The person does not respect you. And that is the hardest thing in the world to establish sometimes.  Especially if the person is new they know nothing about you or your experience or how well you've done at something, so of course they have no respect for you.

Maybe if you bring up your experience in a good way, establish your authority, work with the group around you that respects you, over time he will see that they hold you in high esteem and that when he even tries to say anything they shoot him down.

And whatever his ingratitude and stuff just politely ignore it. People usually aren't stupid and know who the good guy is and who the manipulative freak is... usually ;)

Re: Hypotheticals
Kathy
09/24/02 at 09:53:16
[wlm]
[quote author=BrKhalid link=board=madrasa;num=1032515608;start=0#2 date=09/24/02 at 05:38:35]Indeed he may, but if this "questioning" starts to take an arrogant tone then how do you deal with that?[/quote]
He may be in for a power play... Is he jockeying in for "your position"? Also- has he made buddies with the "your" supervisor? Sometimes this is a first indication..escpecially if all of a sudden someone becomes arrogant.


[quote]If it gets to the level of ingratitude though? How do you deal with that?[/quote]
Here in America we call it climbing the corporate ladder. However most fail to realize that the backs you step on to get up the ladder, you will also have to deal with on the way back down.

Can you be more specific about your question of gratitude... I am imagining someone kissing your silver ring....and you liking it!
Re: Hypotheticals
BrKhalid
09/24/02 at 10:19:14
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]Can you be more specific about your question of gratitude... I am imagining someone kissing your silver ring....and you liking it![/quote]

Gratitude in the sense that you've taken time out for this person and helped nurture him.

I suppose you could equate it to a mother and her child. When the child grows up, he forgets all the things his mother did for him especially when he was unable to look after himself.

Don't we owe a sense a gratitude to ones who help nurture us and make us grow in all walks of life?


And no, no silver rings involved!!! ;-)

I was thinking more along the lines of respect as suggested by jannah.


PS The events and characters in this thread are fictitious. Any similarities with any living person is purely coincidental [Just wanted to stress the hypothetical nature of this thread ;-)]
Re: Hypotheticals
theOriginal
09/24/02 at 11:16:39
[slm]

Is this situation in an Islamic context or otherwise?  If it is the latter, then budd-ay!!!  Didn't you know?  Everyone is replaceable out here.  Everyone fends for himself.  Like this lady I worked with over the summer.  She gave me a tip:  Do the least amount of work possible, and make it seem as if you are doing more than everyone else.  And if someone is judging you, dude!!! they want your job.  now it's a rat race between who stays and goes, because alas!  inevitably, the work place is not suited for you together.  His fault, really.  But whatchyagonnadoaboutit??

Wasalaam.

SF.
Re: Hypotheticals
NinthMuharram
09/24/02 at 17:25:18
[slm]

How I wish, I could tell you that because you are the mentor, and he the fellow student , he owed you his career life. Hyphothetically  :)

But this is the real world, not the Jedi Training. But even there, we saw how Anakin ended up betraying his mentor. Why? Arrogance plus young hot head. "I know better than my mentor. He can't beat my cool way of sword spinning thingy" . Ok. I'm not a Star Wars fan. I dunno much Jedi movement. But, I think I've made my point.

This is my own experience.  I have been under 2 Supervisors that made me really upset because I know I can do things faster and know more things than them. Or so I thought  ;). Plain ol' arrogance showing its thorns. It was frustrating working under them when I had to slow down my pace and do things manually. I kept my sabr, smiled and give alternative solution (contradict them actually hehehe ) as subtle as I can that they didn't feel threaten by me, andof course  Allah helped me ;) . I got new boss!!!!! Hehehee.

In this rat race, the corporate world, each person for him/herself. Everyone has his/her own interest to take care of. You gotta watch your own back. Don't be saddened when the person you have trained turn their back on you.  When this happened to me, I said to myself, he/she has to learn that arrogance doesn't lead to anywhere. He/she just lost my trust. When I trained a fellow employee, I inform everything that I know. I don't believe in keeping things for myself so that I would have something  that others don't know thus making me valuable to the company. Things done with ikhlaas would prevail.

Sister SF, I don't agree with that lady's tip. There's nothing wrong with giving our best and we gotta have the sense of "amanah" that we have been given the responsibility and we have to fulfill it. In fact, we will learn more that way. It will broaden our perspective. But, you've gotta remind the people at work esp your boss the things you've done. We often assumed that our boss would know what we did thus appreciating us esp when it comes to performance review. But boss is human, boss forgets. It all comes down to how much we can advertise how valuable we are to our department and company. Don't be afraid to say "I've successfully achieve this..." maybe I should rephrase that to " With the support of my team members, I have secured the order...."


The key word in everything we do is subtle.
Ikhlaas + Amanah = Good employee.

Do I make sense or as usual swerve from the real topic?
Re: Hypotheticals
BrKhalid
09/25/02 at 07:37:24
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

Interesting thoughts Sr Ninth Muharram.

The Star Wars metaphor probably isn't a million miles off [or should that be a galaxy far far away? ;)]

[quote] When I trained a fellow employee, I inform everything that I know. I don't believe in keeping things for myself so that I would have something  that others don't know thus making me valuable to the company. Things done with ikhlaas would prevail [/quote]

Completely agree with this. To some knowledge is power, and they hoard it for their own personal gain. But in the longer term this philosophy always smacks of short sightedness.


Returning to my original question though, when you have an employee who starts questioning your decisions even though you know he's still wet behind the ears it's a tough situation to deal with.

On a professional level, it's difficult to have to discipline him because you have been heavily involved in his progress to date.

On a personal level, it's tough to take that a person you have spent so much time developing is now openly critical of you.

So how do you deal with it?


Well one of the reasons I posted this thread was because of this verse which I had recently read:

[color=Blue]And remember! your Lord caused to be declared (publicly):

"If ye are grateful, I will add more (favours) unto you; But if ye show ingratitude, truly My punishment is terrible indeed."[14:7][/color]



It was this principle that the more we thank Allah for the blessings he has given us, then the more blessings He *will* give us!!!

Gratefulness + Thankfulness = Increased Blessings


This coupled with the Hadith where Aisha (ra) asked our Prophet why he stood up for so long praying in the night even though Allah had forgiven his past and future sins and he replied:

"Should I not still be a grateful servant?"



Is the loss of the ability to say thank you a punishment in itself?


Just a few of my thoughts I wanted to share. Jazakhallah khair for those who have shared their opinions as well. ;-)
interesting thread
Mohja
09/25/02 at 07:57:54
[quote]
Gratefulness + Thankfulness=Increased Blessings
[/quote]

what's the difference between the two?
Re: Hypotheticals
Halima
09/25/02 at 08:57:25
Here is my interpretation:

Grateful:- Will never forget a great favour done for you.  And especially the person who did it for you.  So, you will always be grateful.  

Thankful:- At every turn in our daily life, we say thank you; for genuine praise, for being thought of, for inclusion in anything that matters, etc.

So, as BrKhalid put it: when you add the two together, the blessing(s) will be a thousand folds.

Halima
Re: Hypotheticals
theOriginal
09/25/02 at 13:14:57
[slm]

I agree with you entirely....I never said i was expressing my own opinion.  But the way the Corporate sector works is so horrid.  It makes you wonder if really there is a place for a practicing Muslim in those big skyscrapers.  Over the summer, every Muslim lawyer I spoke to said the same thing: "I want to quit."  That's not even a joke.  I spoke with quite a few of them, and the reaction was overall static.  Anyway, the point is, you have to make the effort, but when you see people doing otherwise, it gets frustrating and almost maddening.  

So it's pretty much a tossup.  If you can be cut-throat yourself, and at the same time, remain sane/ Or if you can stay "nice" and manage to not get fired, go for it.    

As for the manager.  I would quit, move to the 73rd Island in Fiji, and make it my permanent home.  (Yeah I think I could live on coconuts and pineapples.)  

Wasalaam.
SF.
Re: Hypotheticals
BrKhalid
09/26/02 at 06:58:55
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]


Gratefulness + Thankfulness = Increased Blessings  

what's the difference between the two?[/quote]

I'm not sure there necessarily is a difference. But thinking about this question I wondered what would be the differentiating factor between a person who was grateful and one who was thankful?

The only thing I could come up with was along the lines of action and inaction. Being grateful perhaps signifies a feeling from within whereas being thankful necessitates some sort of action.

When you have both, you reap the full reward???


[quote]It makes you wonder if really there is a place for a practicing Muslim in those big skyscrapers[/quote]


Now there's a discussion for you ;-)
09/26/02 at 06:59:31
BrKhalid
Re: Hypotheticals
jannah
09/26/02 at 13:02:22
[slm]

Hey believe it or not, there's an actual Islamic discourse on this, what the difference is in being thankful and being grateful to Allah... wish i could find my notes... but I think it's what BrKhalid hit upon.. thankfulness is just giving thanx, gratitude is reciprocating the thanx, through action and ibadah.




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