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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| UmmWafi |
| 09/28/02 at 14:09:03 |
| [slm] For many years the gay community has been active in promoting gay issues from small efforts like awareness to big uns like bio-genetical researches. (My opinion on the need to be accepted and yet constantly needing to be validated is a separate issue here :-X ) The latest on dit is that the gay community has successfully persuaded a major Hollywood director ( I shall refrain from naming him cos of this age suing and counter suing but think HUGE director, we are talking Oscars here) to produce an epic film on Alexander the Great (no prize for coming up with the Muslim name of this great warrior). Difference between this epic and the Gladiator saga is that the film will not be so much focusing on Alexander's military achievements, but rather the linking of Alexander the Great's homosexual nature and tendencies to his successes. We can of course discuss Alexander the Great and comment on the socio-political profile of that era vis-a-vis him being surrounded solely by males (so they claimed) but I for one shall not ;D Just a thought though. I wonder when some enterprising director is gonna come up with a movie depicting members of a futuwwah as gays, en masse. For as u might know, the members are all..emm men :-/ A Disclaimer : I have much respect for Muslims who feel they are born with homosexual tendencies and are trying their very best to make sense of the world according to the laws of Allah and the teachings of our beloved Prophet. My dua is with you. I know enough to know that my knowledge in such matters ie biological and genetical cause of homosexuality is very limited for me to speak authoritatively on it. The post above is merely to highlight how dangerous it is to carelessly employ false premises to reach a deceptive conclusion just to justify a cause. If I have offended anyone, then please forgive me, here and in the Hereafter. :-) Wallahualam bissawab Wassalam. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| WhatDFish |
| 09/28/02 at 14:29:36 |
| nobody is born with homosexual tendencies, when one has homosexual inclinations as he grows up it is because of the external factors that affect him. narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon). likewise as what it says in the hadeeth above, no child i believe is born with such inclinations. every child is born in a state of fitrah, following his desires and societal influences later in life may pervert him. |
| 09/28/02 at 16:14:33 |
| WhatDFish |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Dawn |
| 09/28/02 at 15:23:40 |
| [quote author=`Uthmaan link=board=kabob;num=1033236543;start=0#1 date=09/28/02 at 14:29:36]nobody is born with homosexual tendencies, when one has homosexual inclinations as he grows up it is because of the external factors that affected him.[/quote] Actually, I don't think that is quite true. Granted, studies have demonstrated that sexual orientation is not [i]purely[/i] genetic. The existance of identical twins who have been raised apart which have differing sexual preferences shoots that theory right down. One cannot conclude based on that, however, that a person can't be born with homosexual tendencies. If that were the case, that is, if there were no pre-birth influences on sexual preferences, then one would expect (again with identical twins who have been raised apart) that the "other twin halves" of homosexual twins would be homosexual in about the same percentage as the rest of society. That is, if 5% of society is homosexual, then we would expect to see that about 5% of the identical twin siblings of homosexuals are also homosexual. Instead, repeated studies have shown that, with identical twins who are not raised together, approximately 50% of the time, when one "half" of the twin pair is homosexual, the other twin is also. And clearly, 50% of all humans are not homosexual. This would indicate that there is [i]some[/i] pre-birth influence to at least some people's sexual orientation, whether this be an abnormal amount or timing of hormones in the womb or a gene with very low penetrance or a combination of the above or none of the above. One article which talks about the studies performed and some of the opposition to the conclusions reached, as well as some current theories discussing the causes of sexual orientation can be found here: [url]http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus3.htm[/url]. There are other related essays on that site, as well as a host of others on totally unrelated topics. Peace, Dawn |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| WhatDFish |
| 09/28/02 at 16:22:49 |
| Dawn i love this quote from the site you recommended - its sums up the argument best. "As a mother, I know that homosexuals cannot biologically reproduce children; therefore, they must recruit our children." Anita Bryant, 1977 whatever anyone says, i hold on to the fact that homosexuality is psychological and NOT biological! you choose to be crooked so dont blame God. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Ameeraana |
| 09/29/02 at 10:11:43 |
| [color=Purple]I believe there are people who are born gay, but then there are those who become gay later on in life also through maybe influences and traumas early in their lives. My cousin introduced me to one of her male friends a long long time ago, and she used to make very rude comments about gay people in front of him all the time. Now, I got to know him and although he dated girls, I just had a feeling he was hiding the fact that he was gay. I even told my cousin to stop her comments about gays to him because I thought he was gay but she never believed me. Well, 5 yrs later, he finally came out and told her he was, in fact, gay. She was absolutely shocked but talked about it with him and she questioned when he became gay. He said that he was always attracted to males from when he was a child. He himself has brothers who are straight. She was completely wierded out and always asked me how I knew, and I am not even sure why, but I just did. Its a touchy subject to talk about but, in the end we can only speculate the "cause" of why a person is gay. And it is a huge effort for a gay person living a life as a Muslim to control their desires and keep themselves on the straight path to Allah!![/color] |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| bhaloo |
| 09/29/02 at 12:56:39 |
| [slm] There are some very surprising things I have come across in this thread and insha'Allah I am going to show what the Islamic standpoint is on this matter. [quote]I believe there are people who are born gay, but then there are those who become gay later on in life also through maybe influences and traumas early in their lives. [/quote] Here is what Dr. Siddiqqi, former President of ISNA said: Homosexuality is a moral disorder. It is a moral disease, a sin and corruption. Like other moral and physical diseases, the sin also increases when it is not checked and corrected. Homosexuality is increasing today because it has a strong lobby and it is granted freedom to corrupt individuals and societies. No person is born homosexual, just like no one is born a thief, a liar or a murderer. People acquire these evil habits due to a lack of proper guidance and education. Every soul has a possibility to do good or to do evil. Allah says, "By the soul and what proportion He has given to it. He inspired as to what is its evil and what its good. Truly he succeeds who purifies it and he fails who corrupts it." (al-Shams 91:7-10) Every person thus has a "nafs" (inner self) that incites that person to do evil. ("Surely the human soul is prone to evil…" (Yusuf 12:53). But there is also a "nafs lawwamah" (a reproachful soul) (al-Qiyamah 75:2). When people continue doing evil, they kill their "reproachful soul" and make "the evil soul" dominate them. Thus they cheat, deceive, tell lies, commit murder and theft and do all sorts of evils. Allah sent His prophets to teach people what is right and what is wrong. The prophets showed the right path and inspired people by their good examples. If people follow the prophets of Allah, create a good society and live in the company of good people, the goodness and virtue will increase and more and more people will live good and pious life. If people turn away from the teachings of the prophets of Allah, allow evils to propagate in their societies and live in the company of evil people, the sin and corruption will increase in the world. According to the Islamic teachings, we do not believe that homosexuality or any other sin such as murder, rape or theft are biological problems. Allah has created all people according to the Fitrah (pure and good nature). It is their environment that corrupts them. There is a debates going on for several years in America about homosexuality whether it is an orientation or a preference. There is no consensus on this issue. More than 80 per cent of the people in America and 95 per cent of the people of the world still believe that it is immoral and has nothing to do with the biology of a person. However, homosexuals have a strong lobby and they are working very hard to have this evil recognized and accepted as a normal behavior. It is a shame that some Muslims are also in their trap. They are imitating the non-believers in every thing. The Prophet -peace be upon him- predicted about such people, "if others enter a lizard's hole, you would also enter it…" May Allah protect us and our youth from this evil. A true Muslim must never commit this sin. It is absolutely forbidden (haram) in Islam. It can never be accepted in Islam as an acceptable way of life. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexual behavior leads to the destruction of family life. Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that the People of Prophet Lot were involved in homosexuality. Their deeds are called "khaba'ith" (the most dirty acts). Allah's curse came upon them and they were destroyed by fire and brimstone. May Allah protect us from this and all other evils. Here was another question asked of Dr. Siddiqqi. I have two questions about homosexuality. What is the adab (Islamic manner) of talking about it amongst Muslims? Is it something we should feel comfortable discussing freely, or is it something we should avoid? Also what is the adab for dealing with homosexuals? Is the sin that grave, that we should disassociate ourselves from them? Or can we remain friends with them? A 1. Homosexual behavior is sinful and shameful. In Islamic terminology it is called "al-fahsha'" (an atrocious and obscene act). Islam teaches that believers should neither do the obscene acts, nor in any way indulge in their propagation. Allah says, "Those who love (to see) obscenity published broadcast among the Believers will have a grievous Penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: Allah knows, and you know not. (al-Noor 24:19) Normally Muslims avoid such discussions in public discourse, because we know that sometimes evil is spread by its discussion also. When people hear a wrong and sinful act mentioned repeatedly, they get used to it and then slowly it looses its disgusting effect on their minds and souls. But now a days this evil is every where. There are agencies and lobby groups that are working hard to propagate it and to make it as an acceptable and legitimate lifestyle. For this reason it is important that we should speak against it. We should warn our youth and children about the evil of this lifestyle. We should make it very clear that it is Haram and absolutely forbidden. It kindles the wrath and anger of Allah. The word "homosexuality" is a neutral word. It does not convey its pejorative and sinful nature. This word is used now a days as if it were just another type of normal sexual behavior. In the Islamic literature, however, it is always referred to with its negative connotations. In modern Arabic literature it is called "Shudhudh" which means "abnormality". In our Fiqh literature it is referred to as the "Behavior of the People of Lut" ('amal qawmi Lut). This immediately reminds a person that this is something bad and it may bring the punishment of Allah. Once our minds get used to this idea then we develop a natural abhorrence towards this behavior. Furthermore when Muslims discuss this or similar Haram acts, they often say, "A'adhana Allah min dhalik" (May Allah protect us from this). This is the Adab that we should use when talk about it. We should call this behavior with its negative title and we should ask Allah's protection from it when we speak about it. As far your second question about how should we deal with those who are homosexuals? We should deal with them in the same way as we deal with any people who are involved in sinful behavior. How do we deal with the alcoholics, gamblers or adulterers? We dislike their acts and we remind them and warn them. Those who insist on this lifestyle, consider it legitimate and feel "gay pride", we should not associate with them and should not take them as friends. We should certainly avoid those people. If we see a person who has committed this sin and wants to repent then we should help that person as much as we can to get out of this evil. We should not leave him/her to the temptations of Devil. ;================== We had some lengthy discussions on this topic before, I posted some finding at that time from ABC News where they showed that the proof for a gay gene is not conclusive. The link is here: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/gaygene990422.html The summary of the article says: New research seems to contradict a famous 1993 study that found a gene linked to homosexuality. ;===================================== |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| UmmWafi |
| 09/29/02 at 15:02:19 |
| [slm] Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim Was just wondering aloud to Sis Barr the other day whether peeps are gonna get my point ;) I shan't go into lengthy discussions and expositions on the issue of the nature vs nurture cause of homosexuality (may Allah protect us from it). I do, however, wish to make several observations * to the tune of groans from the audience * Firstly, at the cerebral level, people may understand and are aware perhaps about the Islamic standpoint on such a subject, but at the existential level, some may struggle with, to them, an affliction of no mean order. I suspect my disclaimer may have sparked the first of the replies to this thread. If you read carefully, I mentioned, deliberately, people "who feel they are born with homosexual tendencies and are trying their very best to make sense of the world according to the laws of Allah and the teachings of our beloved Prophet". The key operative word here is feel. The reason people may feel they are born with such tendencies varies, and surprisingly, most of them cites "normal" childhood and early adulthood environment. That being so, I have met with some of these people who are trying their very best to obey the laws of Allah and the teachings of the Prophets. And I might add, some are doing very well. Perhaps what is needed is the hidayah from Allah as to the real understanding of sexuality within the acceptance of Islam. And indeed hidayah is the sole business of Allah, not Man. Secondly, I mentioned that I know enough to know that I know little of such issue which was why the point of my post was not abt homosexuality in the first place. Thirdly, if as Dr Siddiqi said, homosexuality is a moral disorder then it is our collective duty to put it back to order because morality is not only an individual responsibility but also a communal one, at least in the Muslim context. That being the case, I find that to help put into order a disorder one must first learn about it and have knowledge about it. Shunning it and slamming doors of understanding shut will only succeed in leaving it out in the open. I am by no means suggesting we embrace it, but at least acknowledge our part in ridding the Ummah of it. Mockery and certainly alienation may not be effective strategies. In the course of my counselling work, about 2 years ago, I manage to help a former prostitute reform, not by endorsing her actions, nor by showing her the full measure of my disgust, but rather by showing her that I still respect her as a person, a Muslim and that I believe in her inherent capacity to turn good. I guess all the while I was counselling her, I was telling myself I am not perfect, "crooked" too perhaps :(, and I do know for sure I want the populace of my Ummah to offer me understanding and belief in my capacity and indeed, a helping hand. Last but not least, for those who still missed the point, uhhh my intention in starting the thread is to expose the machinations of unscrupulous people in manipulating truth to suit their needs. Since the subject of the would-be movie is a well known figure, the enormity of their actions is heightened. I emphasize. It was [u]NOT[/u] a thread on homosexuality. Insya'Allah, with the much-needed unity amongst Muslims, we can build an exemplary Ummah based on the Laws of Allah and the teachings of our Beloved Prophet [saw]. May Allah give us the strength and the wisdom to lead our life in the best manner to secure us happiness in the Hereafter, Amin. Allahualam bissawab. Wassalam. |
| 09/29/02 at 15:08:35 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 09/29/02 at 16:13:47 |
| [slm] I do not want to get into this discussion of whether or not homosexuality is an acquired trait or triggered by some innate mechanism that we have absolutely no control over. However, I just want to highlight something which may or may not be clear to most of you. The Islamic hudood [rulings/injunctions] pertain to the act of sodomy, and not to the claim of homosexuality. It is when a person openly *practices* the *act* of sodomy that the hudood are to be carried out upon the perpetrator. A person may claim to be gay/lesbian all he/she wants, but it is the act which is punishable by death, not the claim itself. And this is where a lot of what UmmWafi is talking about comes in. The necessity to avoid alienation and encourage counselling and other means of help. Wallahu ta'ala a'lam. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| theOriginal |
| 09/30/02 at 16:25:12 |
| [slm] Just my tuppence worth, in case anyone is still following this thread: (In the great words of Eminem, my two cents are free!) There are many diseases on this planet, and everyone of them is curable. Sometimes these diseases are birth defects. Some people are born without limbs, without, organs, etc etc. The best explanation I have gotten about gay people, is that some people are born without an adequate amount of testosterone/estrogen (respective male/female hormones). I think that makes good sense. The onus is upon the individual to find a way to overcome this "disease." (Okay maybe the word is wrong) SF. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| se7en |
| 10/01/02 at 23:06:00 |
| as salaamu alaykum, just to derail the thread even further.. :) Dawn, you said: [quote]One cannot conclude based on that, however, that a person can't be born with homosexual tendencies. [/quote] I think the point Abu_Hamza and others are trying to make is that, even if a person is born with a propensity towards a certain type of action or behavior, that doesn't necessarily justify that behavior or make it lawful. All of us have instinctual desires and inclinations - but the key is to control and channel them towards that which is beneficial on an individual and collective level as divinely prescribed. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| eleanor |
| 10/02/02 at 09:14:32 |
| [slm] Just wanted to tag on to something Abu Hamza said: [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=kabob;num=1033236543;start=0#7 date=09/29/02 at 16:13:47] The Islamic hudood [rulings/injunctions] pertain to the act of sodomy, and jot to the claim of homosexuality.[/quote] There is a difference between sodomy as an act of sexual gratification, and being homosexual. There are many many "straight" married men, with families, who still get off on the act of sodomy. But they are not homosexual. Being homosexual means you actually fall in love with someone of the same sex. And as I think is the case in any relationship of love, the act of sex is not what defines the relationship, rather something that enhances it. Therefore I think a difference needs to be drawn between someone who is openly gay and someone who engages in sodomy. The former is psychological and the latter is physical. I think that is very important to understand before you put them all under one roof and scourge them all. with best regards |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Anonymous |
| 10/02/02 at 16:55:41 |
| Asalaamu Alaykum, I know this wasn't supposed to be about homosexuality, but i just had to say what i was taught in university by one professor. He simply stated that not enough homosexuals are reproducing in order to pass the gene on, the gene would have disappeared long ago if there ever was one. Therefore there is no gene for it. Made sense to me. So who knows what it is after being born that brings these tendencies on (i mean the subtle cases), it could be something small that a person just focuses on so much that makes the feeling so strong. Allah knows best. wa alaykum asalaam |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| jaihoon |
| 10/02/02 at 22:08:17 |
| [slm] An off-the topic point.... What I see as really wonderful on the part of Muslim in the west is their openness to discuss issues without any 'heaven-high' morality... ... something which their eastern counterparts shuld learn. The sahabahs never hesitated to discuss such issues with the Holy Prophet [saw] . Had they, we would have to suffice ourselves with speculative fiqh It is only in Islam, where its Prophet [saw] taught how to sit on the throne as well as the closet. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Barr |
| 10/03/02 at 01:34:54 |
| Assalamu'alaikum, Just forwarding smt from a brother. Wassalam :-) ===================================================== asalamu alaikum my name is roger and i am a revert to the truth that is islam. i was studying to be a christian minister when i was bless with the guidance from allah*swt* that led me to his truth. i was told about this discussion by a sister with whom i have had indepth discussions regarding the matter of homosexuality. while i am of the opinion that allah*swt* creates us long before we are born, hence giving proof to his omnipresence that is beyond the capabilities for man to comprehend, and that hence one can be born gay, and that he is not necessarily the one who made us that way, i also believe that in many cases that there are other aspects that can also lead to these inclinations. about a week ago, i was in the store and saw a young mother with her son and daughter. the little boy saw a doll that he wanted and the mother at first said no, as his father would not approve. then the little boy pointed out that the doll was male, and the mother was about to give in and added that if his father caught him playing with female dolls again, that he would be angry. i don't know what made me do it, but i approached the woman and began a dialogue with her. i told her of having been led to walk away from such inclinations and urged her to reconsider her stance. at first she simply stated that such things do not necessarily cause these inclinations, but when i pointed out to her, that man may never know for sure what causes them, but it is important that children know what areas are and are not acceptable for their gender. she confided that the father had been very concerned that the boy would not play with ohter boys, but only with girls, and play girlish games. i pointed out that sometimes the true way to prove love to a child is not to give in, but to do what is right by them. i asked her if such a lifestyle was what she wanted for her son. she said that while she would love him anyway, no it was not. we talked for a little while longer and she came to realize that sometimes, it is far easier to train him to resist temptation than to walk away from it later after having succumbed to it. as i said before, i am unaccostomed to doing such things, but something moved me to urge this woman to reconsider. somehow, i did not come off as someone telling a perfect stranger how to raise her children, and she ended up glad tnat we had talked, and so did i. i will not get into why i think that it is possible for one to be born gay, as ultimately it does not matter how one gets that way. what matters is how they deal with this inclination. as someone else pointed out, qur'an does not condemn the inclinations. it condemns acting upon them. the inclinations in and of themself are not sin. to feed these thoughts into lust is sin, and to act upon them is sin. the inclinations themselves are nothing more than the shaitan whispering in our ears. they are merely temptation. islamic law is not about eliminating temptation. it is about overcoming it. something else that i noticed was the lack of mention of repentance. yet qur'an teaches us that if two men among you commit lewd acts, punish them both. but if they repent and mend their ways, leave them alone. allah is merciful and oft-forgiving. yet too ofetn people are quick to condemn gays without urging them to repent. repentance is a beautiful thing. it is proof of the love of allah*swt* for us, and when we repent, it serves only to glorify him. something that many gays don't seem to understand is that we all have moral obstacles to overcome. if a man is straight and has inclinations for illegal sex with women, his struggle is just as hard as it is for those with inclinations for the same gender. it is not as important what out obstacles are as it is how we either overcome them, or succumb to them. qur'an does not give the terms gay or straight, which is one of the points that gay rights activists are quick to point out. the same can be said in the xian aspect with the bible, although recently, a new "version" of the bible was written which put the term homosexual in there. there is a simple reason why those terms are not in qur'an. those things are words that man created to describe such behavior and/or inclinations (depending on your definition of gay and straight) and those who engage in these behaviors. it is simply the behavior itself that is mentioned in qur'an. and the guidelines for our sexual behaior has been set. man can rationalize and try to justify and analyze this as much as he wants, but if he does, he usually tends to get results suited to his own will rather than the will of allah*swt*; and in the end, what we want doesn't matter. it is his will that matters. sooner or later, all creatures great and small shall submit to the will of allah*swt* and allah*swt* knows best. if anyone would care for me to elaborate on anything, feel free to let the sister that posts this know, and i shall do so. jazak allah khair for your time in reading my thoughts on the matter. wasalaam roger hendl |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| bhaloo |
| 10/03/02 at 09:52:18 |
| [slm] While the fwd is ok and correct for the most part and I would not have posted otherwise but this portion must be addressed again because it is going against the teachings of Islam and what the scholars have said on this matter. [quote author=Barr link=board=kabob;num=1033236543;start=0#13 date=10/03/02 at 01:34:54]while i am of the opinion that allah*swt* creates us long before we are born, hence giving proof to his omnipresence that is beyond the capabilities for man to comprehend, and that hence one can be born gay, and that he is not necessarily the one who made us that way, i also believe that in many cases that there are other aspects that can also lead to these inclinations. ..... i will not get into why i think that it is possible for one to be born gay, as ultimately it does not matter how one gets that way. what matters is how they deal with this inclination. [/quote] This is a wrong thing to be saying that someone is born gay, and it is not the Islamic viewpoint. Is someone born a pedophile, thief, murderer, prostitute, etc? The answer is clearly no. So why is homosexuallity any different? When someone says they are born this way then naturally other people would feel compassion for them, and say oh he was born that way, let's excuse him. Sheik Munajjidd was asked: A lot of gay and lesbians say that their sexual orientation is natural and they are born gay. Assuming that they are correct since straight people don't know, if homosexuality is outlawed in Islam then why would Allah make them that way so that their existence is a tortured and sexually frustrated way? And he answered: Praise be to Allaah. We do not agree with their claim that their sexual orientation is natural; rather it is a distortion of nature. Allaah counted their deed as wrongdoing and immoral, and He sent upon the people of Lut a punishment the like of which no other nation had seen. He also tells us that this punishment is not ever far from the wrongdoers. Their claim that their orientation is natural serves only to propagate and spread immorality, and it is just an excuse for them. Many of them change their appearance so as to look odd, so how can we say that this is how they were created? Allaah does not create anyone just to punish or torture them. He created mankind to worship Him, but He may try His slaves with hardship as a test of their faith, to expiate for their sins and to raise their status. Allaah is too Just to force a person to commit sin and then punish him. On the contrary, people commit sins by their own free choice – like these perverted people – and it is for this that they deserve to be punished. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “and your Lord treats no one with injustice” [al-Kahf 18:49] And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Nay, Allaah never commands Fahshaa’ (evil deeds, unlawful sexual intercourse). Do you say of Allaah what you know not?” [al-A’raaf 7:28] And Allaah knows best. ;============== Me again. Someone was asking about the causes of it. And every case is different. I know of a case where a guy was going to get married, and then at the last moment the girl left him at the wedding. I guess he was devastated, rejected, and humiliated, and he went into this sick sort of lifestyle and became a practicing homosexual (btw: i don't use the word "gay" because it doesn't make this sin sound as reprehensible as it should be). And there are other reasons why and different cases and scenarios, but we should never ever think that Allah (SWT) created me to be a thief, a pedophile, a prostitute, a homosexual, or whatever. One needs to take responsibility for his/her own actions and not lay the blame on Allah. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| UmmWafi |
| 10/03/02 at 10:01:56 |
| [quote author=Jaihoon link=board=kabob;num=1033236543;start=0#12 date=10/02/02 at 22:08:17] What I see as really wonderful on the part of Muslim in the west is their openness to discuss issues without any 'heaven-high' morality... ... something which their eastern counterparts shuld learn. [/quote] Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :'( I wannabe a Western Muslim...I wannabe a Western Muslim....I wannabe a Western Muslim....I wannabe a Western Muslim......I wannabe a Western Muslim.............wwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh :'( Avtually...errmm...I would be so grateful to Allah if I could just be a Muslim. Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, Venusian, Martian..as such. A true Muslim that is, Insya'Allah. :-* Peace. Wassalam. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Maliha |
| 10/03/02 at 10:52:19 |
| [slm] [quote author=Jaihoon link=board=kabob;num=1033236543;start=0#12 date=10/02/02 at 22:08:17] [slm] An off-the topic point.... What I see as really wonderful on the part of Muslim in the west is their openness to discuss issues without any 'heaven-high' morality... ... something which their eastern counterparts shuld learn. [/quote] I don't necessarily agree that every topic should be "openly" discussed. Whereas there nothing wrong with asking questions when something is not clear, there is a certain danger in simply hammering a point to death. The openness of the western society, makes such lewd acts appear normal. We talk about it so much, see it so much, that our sensitivity is worn off. I like the fact that in most eastern societies, it is taboo to even mention certain things. It keeps it at bay, and it doesn't become as pervasive and would not ever be as lightly treated. jus' me two cents :P Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| Sparrow |
| 10/03/02 at 13:00:21 |
| Hello all, regarding the idea that homosexuality is "natural" could it not be said that anything that occurs in nature is "natural?" We have to be careful though, not to confuse "natural" with "normal." Mental retardation is natural but not normal. Homosexuality can be natural but not normal. And, along those lines, if God causes children to be born with deformities and retardation (which in my human mind seem far more awful to be than homosexual) than why not homosexuality? Peace, Sparrow |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| eleanor |
| 10/06/02 at 05:41:12 |
| [slm] [quote author=Maliha link=board=kabob;num=1033236543;start=15#16 date=10/03/02 at 10:52:19] I like the fact that in most eastern societies, it is taboo to even mention certain things. It keeps it at bay, and it doesn't become as pervasive and would not ever be as lightly treated. [/quote] I disagree. The fact that these issues are not openly talked about makes them more attractive to the mind. Children/young people are more likely to discuss these issues among themselves, out of the earshot of disapproving adults, and this usually results in misinformation. They learn untruths about perfectly normal bodily functions. As an example, try to guess how many males in an Eastern setting know *why* a woman menstruates. What actually physically happens. You would be surprised to see how few know this - all they know is that a woman is "dirty" during this time and they should stay away from her if they are not to "catch something". Therefore, although the danger lies in the opposite extreme, and the issue may be, as you mentioned, desensitization, I would encourage an open discussion on these issues, for the sake of truth and clarity. Best regards. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| UmmWafi |
| 10/10/02 at 08:00:01 |
| [slm] Just an update. If Alexander the Great was really Dzulkarnaen, then there is an interesting thingy I learnt abt him. Before he died, he actually planned to set sail via the Red Sea back to Macedonia. He was thinking of conquering....ARABIA ! He even sent a captain on a scouting mission. But Alexander died before he could conquer Arabia. Hmmm.........wonder how the geo-political conditions would be if he did manage to conquer Arabia. Wassalam. |
| Re: Alexander the....emm..ahhh... Great |
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| se7en |
| 10/11/02 at 02:51:44 |
| as salaamu alaykum, [quote] He was thinking of conquering....ARABIA ! He even sent a captain on a scouting mission. But Alexander died before he could conquer Arabia. [/quote] Sidi Hamza Yusuf talks about this fact in one of his lectures.. how some historians have described Arabia before the time of prophet Muhammad [saw]'s emergence as preserved and protected.. and how many plans for its conquering or corruption - like those of Alexander the Great's - were diverted before they could come to light. something to think about :-[ wasalaamu alaykum :-) |
| 10/11/02 at 02:53:13 |
| se7en |
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