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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| jannah |
| 10/09/02 at 17:14:56 |
| I am so unbelievably >:( Don't ask me why but today I decided to watch Oprah. So of course it starts out all interesting "Should the US go to war? We're making a monumental decision - then they show some pro people and some con people like desmond tutu and scott ritter" and from there the show all went to propoganda crap. First they have some guy who wrote a book called "the coming threat" or something talking about how Iraq is so evil and they have weapons of mass destruction and blah blah. He sounds so concerned for the Iraqi people. "We're really helping to liberate them you know." Oprah asks "What of scott ritters opinion, etc" and he of course says "uh I really don't know his position or what he's talking about... ". Then they had some Iraqi guy on who said he'd been tortured by Saddam and how evil Saddam is. (Who is now president of some Iraqi club in DC, can you say wanting to be the next president??) Then they showed 10 full minutes of pictures of all the evil things Saddam has done to play up the heartstrings. The guy even said "he has rapists on pay!". The audience was properly shocked. It was such propoganda I couldn't believe it.. Then a woman from the audience says "Wow you guys sure changed my mind in 15 minutes. When I came here I was against war, but after seeing all that!" And that's not even the worst of it, then they bring up that bogus story of the 6 yemeni guys in Buffalo who were arrested for ... what there aren't even any real charges. There was even a woman reporter on who said "well there is no evidence exactly...and we should balance our fears with constitutional laws" Oprah says "what about the two ss cards and the aliases... and the reporter said 'oh those were bogus.. one of the ss cards were his brothers and the credit cards belonged to his family.. and then oprah closes out with "thanks for the reporting, that sure is scary...". arghhhhh Then guess who shows up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Salman Rushdie (of course) in his masterpiece theater chair and erudite english accent saying how evil Saddam is and "fundamentalism" etc. And before that Eli Wiesel (death camp survivor) comparing Saddam to Hitler.. The only guy that was good was some Paki guy that finally spoke up at the end saying, "hey you know other ppl have weapons of mass destruction, like pakistan, like india, like israel and sharon is doing evil things too". So of course that first weasel guy says, "no not really israel isn't as evil as saddam, saddam is really really bad and really really unique." No peace activists, no scott ritter, no mention of the dead millions of IRAQI children, sanctions, no anti war opinion mentioned whatsoever, no interviews with iraqi people, nothing...what the heck. My God with propoganda like that I don't doubt they will start dropping bombs by the end of this week. Scott Ritter was right about the first part of his prediction, let's hope he's right about the second. If you saw the show please write in. I plan to. :( :( :( This show has 10 million viewers!!! And these are the "UNINFORMED" mass public. I cannot believe how irresponsible they are. |
| 10/09/02 at 17:16:37 |
| jannah |
| The scary thing is |
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| DeRayeMustafaMille |
| 10/09/02 at 18:08:49 |
| this may be only the beginning. There are so many ill informed people out there who blindly follow whatever the government or the media tells them. I'm not saying that everything is a lie or a conspiracy, but it seems that since Sept. 11th a lot of people (either due to fear or hatred) have made many steps backwards as far as their reason, individual ablity to think for themselves and judge a situation for the real truth and not what they are being told what the truth is. Thank you for posting this. I wasn't aware of the show until I came in here. Oh yeah, and I'm glad things are back up. The internet seemed kind of dark w/o al-Madinat Al-Muslimeen! ;D [slm] ;-) |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| Kashif |
| 10/10/02 at 04:01:02 |
| assalaamu alaikum This 'dumbing down' of the general public must certainly be induced by the fear of an 'endless war' that Bush and his cronies are pushing. If Blair or any other leader had made reference to a thing such as "Saddam and his nuclear holy warriors" the audience around him would have started laughing. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| UmmWafi |
| 10/10/02 at 08:04:39 |
| [slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1034198096;start=0#0 date=10/09/02 at 17:14:56]I cannot believe how irresponsible they are. [/quote] Oh believe it sister....believe it. The scarier part still ? Even the "Muslim writers" in "Muslim countries" with "Muslim papers" are behaving as irresponsibly as them. May Allah shower them and us with hikmah and hidayah, Amin. Wassalam. |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| sam |
| 10/10/02 at 08:22:11 |
| the majority of the us pupulation are illiterate , ignorant, dumb, blind and cannot think for themselves. i mean do they not have any common sense that this war makes no sense..sorry, the reasons for this war make no sense. the reason behind this all was to faze out all the media attention between the barbaric killings sharon was adminisering against palestine. now we dont kjnow what's really gpoing on there behind closed doors but i tell you one thing, muslims are dying. and now many more will also die if bush goes through with this...he has no choice now but go to war....he needs to keep the dumb us public's attention away from palestine. have you noticed now dum he sounds when he speaks...i wonder whether he has an ounce of intelligence or whther he is lowering himself so that the rest of america can understand his patriotic rubbish, lies and more lies. oprah is dumb also...has she forgotten how her people were treated by these big headed "land of the free" rasciists? you know the only reason why poewple actually watch her show coz it's become quite "cool" to watch her show probably because of all the self help crap that always comes up...the audience watches for their own personal gain...so if somone else where also hosting a similar show then i'me sure she would not remain so popular...so in conclusion...she's crap!!! ::) |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| Sparrow |
| 10/10/02 at 08:32:29 |
| Hello all, I'm curious as to why you saw these things as propoganda. What made the Iraqi man's story of his association with Hussein incredible? His mere association with an anti-Hussein group? It seems to me that if I had been torturted by Hussein I too would be a card-carrying member of that anti-Hussein club. THe same goes for the author. Why is he wrong? Isn't it general world opinion that Hussein is a brutal maniac, even among Muslims? I fully admit that I have no evidence that these people *are* credible. But neither do I think they are necessarily incredible or spin doctors simply because they're experiences, opinions and facts don't mesh with what I would like to believe. I have been hanging out here long enough so that I hope everyone knows that I have a high opinion of Islam, and that I can make the following statements without being accused of being anti-Islam. Ever since 9/11 I have been bothered by the fact that many Muslims seem unwilling to admit the role Muslims have in unpleasant world happenings. We often hear on this board and other forums that the US must live up to the responsibility its policies have had on the world. I couldn't agree more. It is my opinion though that the same could be said of the Muslim community in general. The reality is that there are in fact, many Muslims who want to hurt Americans/American government and have and continue to plan along those lines. Yet whenever there is a bombing or an arrest or a suspicion or even an interview with someone who confirms or is involved in these happenings, all one hears from the Muslim community is that it is propaganda, or Zionist lies, or Christian nuts...anything to keep from actually having a serious discussion about what is going on in the Islamic world. And yes, of course there is propaganda, of course there are lies and spin doctors and folks who have their own agenda, and ignorant people at CVS who would do what they did to Kathy. But not everyone is lying. Not everyone is out to get Islam, and frankly I think it does a public disservice to simply fall back to the "you just hate Muslims" defensive position whenever there is an arrest, or a negative but perhaps true comment. (That, or I am treated to a twenty minute tirade about the evil US. I *know* what the US does,already!) That point of view is the debate equivalant of putting one's hands over one's ear and chanting "I'm not listening." Ever since 9/11 I have tried, as a non-Muslim who thinks Islam is really cool, to not let ignorant/misinformed comments about Muslims and Islams go unchallenged when I hear them. But the one question I have not been able to answer is, if terrorism, 9/11, Hussein etc. are truly not what Islam is about, then where are the Muslims speaking out about them? Where was the American Muslim community after 9/11? Why were they not screaming from the rafters that these people did not represent Islam? I cannot answer that question because frankly I wondered that myself. I fully expected to see Muslim scholars and everyday people disavowing these acts as loudly and as often as they could but really what I saw was quite the opposite. Intentionally or intentionally the Muslims I saw speak seemed reluctant to say that it was wrong, and not condoned by Islam. Oh sure, there'd be the initial "oh it's very bad" but that would almost universally be followed by "....but what about what the US does in this country or that country." Again, the twenty minute diatribe about the evil US. And, for a lot of people in this country who had little contact with Islam it sounded like making excuses. I wonder if a serious opportunity wasn't lost here (after things had died down) to really let the American people get to know Islam. Apologies if I have offended anyway as that is not my intention. All responses welcome, except diatribes about the evil US. I've heard them all. Peace, Sparrow |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| UmmWafi |
| 10/10/02 at 10:17:05 |
| Salaam Sparrow [quote author=Sparrow link=board=ummah;num=1034198096;start=0#5 date=10/10/02 at 08:32:29] Ever since 9/11 I have tried, as a non-Muslim who thinks Islam is really cool, to not let ignorant/misinformed comments about Muslims and Islams go unchallenged when I hear them. But the one question I have not been able to answer is, if terrorism, 9/11, Hussein etc. are truly not what Islam is about, then where are the Muslims speaking out about them? Where was the American Muslim community after 9/11? Why were they not screaming from the rafters that these people did not represent Islam? I cannot answer that question because frankly I wondered that myself. I fully expected to see Muslim scholars and everyday people disavowing these acts as loudly and as often as they could but really what I saw was quite the opposite. Intentionally or intentionally the Muslims I saw speak seemed reluctant to say that it was wrong, and not condoned by Islam. Oh sure, there'd be the initial "oh it's very bad" but that would almost universally be followed by "....but what about what the US does in this country or that country." Again, the twenty minute diatribe about the evil US. And, for a lot of people in this country who had little contact with Islam it sounded like making excuses. I wonder if a serious opportunity wasn't lost here (after things had died down) to really let the American people get to know Islam. [/quote] You asked where are the Muslims speaking out against terrorism, 9/11, Hussein etc. Well, u know, they are everywhere. However, whether u get to hear their voices or not is another matter altogether. Since 9/11, and even before that, mind you cos our intellectual discourses do not start only from then, Muslims scholars and intellectuals have been discussing, discoursing and even actively participating in activities that would explain the truth from the Islamic standpoint. Strange as it may seem, there are people who would prefer not to allow Muslims the opportunity nor the platform to voice the truth. In my country for example, letters sent to the mainstream media do not get printed. What get printed instead are letters affirming that we are hate-filled killers. TV programmes, ala Oprah but supposedly more serious, do not invite Muslim speakers to speak on Islam and Muslim-concerned issues. Go figure. When Muslims do speak out vehemently AGAINST the attacks and all forms of terrorism, they said that we are nominal and minority. In political science, books by learned Muslim scholars are not studied but people like Samuel Huntington who actually proposed that the West see Islam as THE enemy are touted as a must have for academics. So, Sparrow, u tell me, what have we not done ? When the attack happened, me and all my Muslim friends condemned the attack without using US actions as justifications for a BUT or IFs. We only started analysing US political strategies (or lack of them thereof) when US started making everything political. Again, we did not implicate these actions with the attack. Too bad u don't see us. Hmm..why are we not shouting from the rafters u ask ? Well honey, perhaps we have shouted till our voice are hoarse and our throats so dry that u can use them as flint. U know what ? Sometimes its not the loudest voice that's heard but the most powerful one. If 10,000 Muslims shout from the rafters and $10million dollars are spent to convince 10 billion people Muslims are evil, u think we are gonna get heard ? Do u honestly think the views of the President of the MSA is more important than that of the US Vice President whose interest we know lies where. I appreciate very much your feedback and I think its genuine and relevant because there are Muslims who are ignorant, there are Muslims who are hate-filled, there are Muslims who supported the terrorists. But hey, guess what ? These groups are not peculiar to Muslims only. If u look around u might be surprised to see that stupidity is prevalent everywhere, even in the white house, the family of Saud etc, hence the problems. You know, after Tim McVeigh bombed Oklahoma building nobody wanted to thumbprint white guys when they are buying vans, nobody wanna freeze the accounts of war veterans, no white guys ever had to explain their whiteness. You asked if opportunities are not lost to let American people know abt Islam. Well Sis, my answer is, do the American people really wanna hear abt Islam ? Maybe u do, but perhaps u are the exception and not the norm. Just like perhaps the terrorists are the exception and are not the norm. U know Sis, since 9/11 Muslims have been subjected to all kinds of what-have-yous and we can still fight back and try to undo the damage. if u have been unfortunate enough to see passivity instead of pro-activity, my sincerest regret. But please don't add your accusation of the Muslim community as a apathetic lot into our ever growing list of "crimes" we have done. My sincerest apologies if I have offended anyone. Afwan. All feedback and comments welcomed. Please, no diatribes against Americans, and Muslims too. I have heard enough, ad nauseum. Wassalam. |
| 10/10/02 at 10:24:33 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| sofia |
| 10/10/02 at 11:13:06 |
| I’d have to agree with Umm Wafi -- it really does get tiring. But at the same time, it’s only fair to say that there have been too many of us pointing outwardly, rather than inwardly. Yes, there have been a lot of Muslims stepping up to bat (before and after 9/11) who criticized the corruption and hypocrisy of so-called “Muslim” leaders. A lot of us have even criticized our own ineffectiveness. Whether you heard it or not, is a different story. But when it comes down to criticizing other than our own selves (i.e., Western foreign policy), that’s when we naturally get “exposed” for being complainers. The way to changing our condition in Islaam is to change our own selves; i.e., the “man in the mirror.” The way to changing our condition in the secular sense, is to shoot down anyone opposing us, by our own definition of “security” or “justice.” Unfortunately, a lot of Muslims have fallen prey to that kind of thinking, as well. So when situations that may come across as conspiracies (real or not, and the scariest thing is, the worst “conspiracies” are those we never hear about, but that’s another story) distract the Muslim ummah from getting back on our feet, please excuse us. A part of us really have forgotten the way of our predecessors, unfortunately. But when the West questions where the voices of Muslims in the West (or anywhere) are, we’ll tell you. WE HATE AND DO NOT SUPPORT OPPRESSORS. WE WISH OUR LETTERS OR CALLS WOULD BE PUBLICIZED. As far as I can remember, I have never heard one single voice of support for Saddam Hussein. Not once. [In fact, I’ve heard more Muslims say they want to kill Saddam Hussein than non-Muslims]. Even now, when Bush is forcing his, “you’re either with us or against us” schpiel, I still do not know anyone who supports Saddam Hussein. But if you ask any Muslim in their right mind what we think about the Iraq situation (for ex), there’s no way we’d agree to the destruction of particular civilizations or regions of the world in the name of retaliating against one man or his regime. The past 11 years worth of effort in bombing/putting sanctions on Iraq were clearly a failure in stopping Saddam, and clearly a success in killing/maiming/putting enough carcinogenic material to mutilate the innocent than anyone could well imagine. And Saddam has only gotten richer. We question everything about foreign relations now, if we did not before. Analytic thought may seem dead in the U.S., but I hear it even now by my non-Muslim neighbors. Outside of the fact that a lot of Muslims are scared to voice their opinions due to current the “police state” a lot of Muslims are experiencing, I only wish we were able to publicize our concerns in a more concerted, and less censored, effort, with Muslims and non-Muslims, alike. A silent majority who opposes oppression and injustice, unfortunately, is not counted amongst those who voice their opinions. So speak up, people, when and to whom it counts. May Allah grant us victory and aid over the oppressors, aameen. |
| NS |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| an |
| 10/10/02 at 11:32:05 |
| [slm] Sparrow, Please don't undermine the Muslims effort. Ever since the 9/11 many Muslims have been proactive in shedding misconceptions about Islam and condemning these acts. I know in my university alone, just a couple of days after it happened, the Islamic Society issued a statement which basically condemn this act and they've been organising Islamic awareness events ever since. The scholars here have continually voiced out their opinions to the public. A lot of interfaith forums have been organised since 9/11. This is the time where Islam and Muslims are exposed. But the truth is, our screams are overshadowed by something much bigger.. often, the media chooses to cover up or not deliver these news.. ...which may explain you not hearing anything from the Muslims themselves... the muslims are out there.. but they are not seen or heard... the thing is ..it's so hard to find and read/hear news from unbiased sources these days.. [img]http://www.bendib.com/media/Public-broadcasting.jpg[/img] I'd love to hear what ideas you have for the Ummah... and how you can help or contribute... Wassalam |
| 10/10/02 at 11:36:32 |
| an |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| jannah |
| 10/10/02 at 18:19:12 |
| [quote]I'm curious as to why you saw these things as propoganda.[/quote] I'm sorry... when someone deliberately only shows one side, with "expert" guests with an agenda that only stand to gain from spreading their viewpoint (ie book sales, future presidents of countries) and shows inflammatory footage along with perpetuating stereotypes, half-facts,slander and fear it feels like propoganda to me... No one is denying Saddam is an evil person. No one is denying the evil things he's done, least of all Muslims who he's committed his evil on, more so than to any person sitting watching TV in the West. But [i]why [/i] use that as justification for perpetuating more hate, war, and evil on the innocent people of Iraq. Regardless, why is that cause to go in and perpetuate devastation on a country and kill more of their women and children. Can't America mind it's own business? Can't we all admit that this is about oil instead of this "holier than thou" America has to save the world from evil Saddam? The point is why show only one viewpoint, why [i]spread[/i] only one viewpoint. [quote]Muslims seem unwilling to admit the role Muslims have in unpleasant world happenings. [/quote] I don't think it's fair to generalize 1.8 billion people. The same as it is wrong for us to think all Americans agree with America's foreign policy. Yes, there are Muslims that commit crimes and wrong. Who's denying it? The majority of our scholars have spoken on this, the majority of our organizations, the majority of our speakers. If there are wackos out there, that's something we already know. [quote]where are the Muslims speaking out about them? Where was the American Muslim community after 9/11? Why were they not screaming from the rafters that these people did not represent Islam?[/quote] Perhaps you didn't see president Bush at a DC mosque meeting with reps from muslim organizations in the US. Perhaps you didn't hear Imams speaking at the 9/11 memorial. Perhaps you didn't attend the hundreds of inter faith vigils Muslims did. Perhaps you didn't read the hundreds of press statements, even the one posted on this website for 8 months. Perhaps you didn't watch the interviews on Nat'l television with Hamza Yusuf or CAIR's president. It's all there for anyone who cares to look. If a person doesn't want to look I don't know what else we can do. |
| 10/10/02 at 18:22:41 |
| jannah |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| Sparrow |
| 10/11/02 at 07:23:29 |
| My intention in posting was to open a dialogue about something that really has been troubling me, but I can see from the defensive posture of most (though not all) of the posts (I never once insinuated that Muslims were "stupid" or "apathetic") that people are not interested in talking about this. In typical fashion they would rather accuse me of being blind, me of being ignorant, me of generalizing (although a few posts before me no one seems to have trouble with the statement, "the majority of the US pupulation are illiterate , ignorant, dumb, blind and cannot think for themselves." ) than actually stopping and considering that I might just have a point. I believe I was also clear to say that I did not consider my views the end statement on the matter. However, that will not happen, clearly, because folks would rather be defensive. That way everyone else can carry the responsibility. At any rate, I am disappointed and a bit depressed. I'm also done trying to talk and understand. Peace, Sparrow |
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| Maliha |
| 10/11/02 at 08:22:39 |
| Dear sis Sparrow :-) I think what you are dealing with is the accumulated frustrations of what Muslims have had to go through since and even before 9/11. Turning on the TV, searching the papers, delving into "popular" media is a heart breaking feat for Muslims. We don't find accurate/intelligent analysis of the current situation we are in anywhere we look. The fact that most americans have been denied the full picture is not coincidental. The fact that our voices are hushed is a necessity. It is frustrating for Muslims to find themselves explaining over and over again that we are *not* terrorists. That our religion does not condone acts of terror, etc etc. When jews are not put to the same task for what Israel is doing, when christians are not put to the same task for what the states and individuals like Mc veigh did/are doing. The discussion is two way. And there seems to be a wall in between. Muslims are banging their heads against the wall and no one seems to listen or care. And those who do care and do want to listen are not afforded the chance, hence the perpetual misunderstanding. Please do not look at the responses as being defensive. The truth is most Americans are ignorant of world affairs, through no fault of their own. The systemic miseducation of the masses is a necessary component for an imperialist state. Just like most Muslims are hurt, angry, and defensive for being put to task for a crime we did *not* commit. A lot of work needs to be done by both Muslims and non Muslims to educate our selves, to move beyond the veils of sensationalism and hysteria...That is something we all recognize and should strive for.... Sis, Maliha :-) |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| an |
| 10/11/02 at 10:38:37 |
| Assalammu'alaikum sis Sparrow, I'm sorry if we sound like we're accusing you but truly we didn't mean to. I think what sis Maliha wrote is so true. In a way, we're frustated and tired of trying to explain the same thing over and over again about the accusations being thrown our way about our way of life/religion. It's even more frustating when the explanations don't seem to get through to people or when they just don't care to listen. Or even when the media misrepresent us. But I do appreciate your concern about the Ummah because it shows that you care and that's great coming from a non-Muslim. I understand what you're trying to say about us because there are also many Muslims who don't even care about their own religion or the state of the Ummah. And that makes me sad and frustated too because as Allah said "He won't change the state of a group of people until they change what's within themselves". A bro last time mentioned that we, Muslims need to look inward instead of outward for the problems that are happening. That instead of blaming others, we need to be introspective and understand why they occur. Because most of the problems are caused partly by our lack of initiatives. For example, if there are many ignorant views about Muslims then it is partly our fault that we haven't been able to explain to them. I guess it's time to take the responsibility instead of blaming. But to do that, the Ummah also need support and be united. |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| jannah |
| 10/11/02 at 12:16:06 |
| Sparrow, I'm sorry if you feel everyone is ganging up on you. That's not anyone's intention. You said you wanted 'open dialogue'. In open dialogue if you make some statements you should be prepared to back them up. I really don't want hundreds of people reading your post thinking that some of the things you said were true. If that sounds defensive it is, because when someone makes statements that I feel are not true, that are in fact insulting to the time, effort and work of alot of sincere people to make this world a better place since 9/11 I think we should present their side as well. So let's discuss... I think your post had 3 main points I disagreed with: 1. The show was not propoganda. 2. Muslims can't admit when they do wrong. 3. Muslims are not speaking out after 9/11. Now 1 I'd be prepared to argue over b/c I don't think it was "deliberate" propoganda by anyone it just ended up that way. 2. I can say applies to some Muslims but not all 3. Is just plainly not true. As for the statement "the majority of the us pupulation are illiterate , ignorant, dumb, blind and cannot think for themselves.". I'm not sure why Sr Sam would say that being an American convert herself. And I don't think it's true. Now this goes into generalizations again, but I think that most Americans are raised with the ideas of fairness, equality and justice from the time we're in kindergarten. And this is why that Oprah show bothered me so much. Anyone watching that show saw only one side of the issue and it was being presented as if they were showing both sides. So any person who believes in those ideas of 'fairness, equality and justice' would be the first to drop bombs on IRAQ. Anyone dissenting would seem like they were being selfish and isolationists. I know when I present the other side of issues to my co-workers like over Israel or other things they are open-minded and even change their minds. I don't think anyone is blind here, but I do believe many people are uninformed. AND that there are alot more complex issues involved including economics, political power, need for revenge/closure, oil, etc. etc. Stereotypes, hate, fears about Islam also feed into that whole mix. I don't think/or want to believe that anyone would want to drop bombs on the babies in Iraq. There has to be a reason in people's minds, a justificaiton. As people working for peace we have to figure out what it is and dispell it before its too late. |
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| UmmWafi |
| 10/11/02 at 20:32:50 |
| Hello Sparrow ( hey hey hey it rhymes) A discussion is when one forwards points of arguments that open room for dissecting the logical structure behind ideas. Hence, dialogue and exchanges take place. When one forwards statements of attack or offense, one gets defence in response. Its a kind of universal event. Very rarely do u see initial surrender at the point of attack. Going back to the discussion at hand. Now, if the arguments forwarded are as such : 1) I am confused, what are the response of the majority Muslims on 9/11 since I have seen only supporters of such actions thus far ? 2) May I know what are some of the activities or actions that the Muslims have done to dispel any wrong perceptions of the attack ? 3) Why do some Muslims persist in wanting harm to America ? I think a platform is opened for discussion indeed :) However, the points forwarded are : 1) Ever since 9/11 I have been bothered by the fact that many Muslims seem unwilling to admit the role Muslims have in unpleasant world happenings 2) The reality is that there are in fact, many Muslims who want to hurt Americans/American government and have and continue to plan along those lines. Yet whenever there is a bombing or an arrest or a suspicion or even an interview with someone who confirms or is involved in these happenings, all one hears from the Muslim community is that it is propaganda, or Zionist lies, or Christian nuts...anything to keep from actually having a serious discussion about what is going on in the Islamic world. 3) I cannot answer that question because frankly I wondered that myself. I fully expected to see Muslim scholars and everyday people disavowing these acts as loudly and as often as they could but really what I saw was quite the opposite. Intentionally or intentionally the Muslims I saw speak seemed reluctant to say that it was wrong, and not condoned by Islam. Truly, these do not warrant discussion, they warrant a response. If the response is seen as defensive, well then perhaps one should reflect on the nature of the original arguments. You said your intention was to open a dialogue well, a dialogue is in essence a communication. When we replied u say that we dont "wanna talk about this" and "also we are "defensive so that everyone can share the responsibility." Well then, perhaps it would be a good idea if u could state your definition of dialogue because I too failed to see that it was one from the very beginning. I beg to correct one essential error u made in both your posts. U assumed that my purpose in posting is to defend my position, my action, the state of being in the world, the state of being in the Muslim world. I am sorry to say that u are wrong in all counts. My intention in posting was to show you the alternative events to those that u claimed have occurred so that perhaps u could reflect and revise on your original post. I can see that I failed. I share your disappointment and depression because u have no idea how difficult it is to discuss when too many are too willing to just summarily dismiss our arguments as being defensive and not representative. But I am not done talking and trying to make people understand because after all we share a small world. What I am done with is being apologetic for the actions of a demented few. Jannah - If the tone and nature of this post run counter to the Madinat Constitution, pls send me a message about it. I would like to apologise to you in advance if it is because I have no intention of ever implicating a board with any irresponsible actions on my part. However, that said, I think at this stage of development or regression, I would like to make my position clear about how I view and respond to arguments. Naturally, I will bound to rub some people the wrong way but well, being perfect is against my nature, wallahualam bissawab. Perhaps it all boils down to different style and strategies by different people. To any and all I have offended, please forgive me. Wassalam. |
| Re: Propoganda Machine at Work |
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| BroHanif |
| 10/12/02 at 04:05:50 |
| [slm] Hmm interesting posts, however I do agree with [quote]Ever since 9/11 I have been bothered by the fact that many Muslims seem unwilling to admit the role Muslims have in unpleasant world happenings. [/quote] The first issue Muslims need to address is we need to start the jihad and thats with ourselves first. Salaams Hanif |
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