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IT IS OUT OF CHARGE

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IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Anonymous
10/15/02 at 03:51:13
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.

FIRST OF ALL,I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL WHO WORK IN
ISLAM ONLINE AND THOSE WHO PARTICIPATE  READ AND WRITE
VARIOUS TOPICS.

I AM SUGGESTING AN INTERSTING TOPIC.IT CONCERNS MEN AND
WOMEN BRIDE AND BRIDEGROOM.THE REASON FOR WRITING THIS
ARTICLE IS THAT I WAS SURPRISED TO FIND THAT MUSLIM WOMEN
WHO SEEK A MEN FOR MARIAGE PUT OBSTACLES IN FRONT OF
MEN.INDEED THEY ARE MORE DEMANDING ,one of their
conditionS ,which their rights ,is that besides all the
positive qualities that a husband possesses,he should earn
a high salary.INDEED MONEY WHICH IS IN IT SELF HAS NO VALUE
EXERTS MORE POWER THAN OTHER COMMODITIES .IT BRINGS OUT THE
WORST AND THE BEST.MANY WOMEN ARE LEADING A SAD LIFE
BECAUSE THEY MISCHOSE THEIR PARTNERS.THEY MARRIED THEM ONLY
FOR THEIR MONEY.TO THEM THE material possessions should
come first .the expensive CAR ,villas ,gold and bank count.
THEY ARE NOW SUFFERING FROM NEGLECTING THE PROPHET SAYINGS
AND ALLAH WORDS.THEIR HUSBANDS illtreat them .Neither can
they ask for divorce nor can be in peace.there is no day
that passes without being hit or insulted.moreover, there
many women who still  pay their husdands debts.THESE
PRETEND TO BE EITHER BUSNINESS MEN OR TO HAVE FORTUNE.THEY
STILL OR BORROW MONEY FROM OTHERS TO IMPRESS THEM BEFORE
MARRIAGE.THEY TAKE THEM FOR EXPENSIVE RESTAURANTS,buy them
expensive jewerllery and take them to beautiful places.

I AM NOT TRYING TO DISCOURAGE U FROM GETTING MARRIEED ,BUT
I WARN U OF APPERANCE AND GRRED.THERE ARE MANY BELIEVERS
WHO FERAS ALLAH AND FOLLOWS HIS WORDS.THEY CAN NOT BE RICH
BUT THEY HAVE ABSTRACT PRINCIPLES AND TRANSFORM THEM INTO
REAL ONES.THEY ARE ETHICAL ,FAITHFUL ,trustworthy ,helpful
and frank.O MUSLIMS WOMEN BE PIOUS TO ALLAH AND REMEMBERS
THAT ropehet may peace be upon him says  SAYS Mahr:
Mahr is the gift that is given by the husband to his wife
at wedding. It can be anything in any amount, as agreed by
the bride and bride-groom.

Allah says about Mahr in the Chapter `Woman' in Quran:
And give the women (on marriage) their Mahr as a free gift.
Qur'an [4 : 4]
I
f you had given the latter a cantar (of gold i.e. a great
amount) for dower (Mahr) take not the least bit of it
back ... Qur'an [4 : 20]

Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d: "The Prophet, peace be upon him,
said to a man, `Marry, even with (a Mahr equal to) an iron
ring.'"

to conclude let refelects allah words.


'Among His signs is [the fact] that He has created spouses
for you among yourselves so that you may dwell in
tranquillity with them, and He has planted love and mercy
between you; In that are signs for people who reflect.
Qur'an [30 : 21]

He has planted affection and mercy between you. Qur'an [30: 12] and says:

They are a garment for you and you are a garment to them.
Qur'an [2 : 187]

Consider this in conjunction with the following verse:
The best garment is the garment of God-consciousness
Qur'an [7 : 26]

It requires that a husband and wife should be as garments
for each other. Just as garments are for protection,
comfort, show and concealment for human beings, Allah
expects husbands and wives to be for one another.
And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends of
one another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong,
and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and
they obey Allah and His messenger; as for those, Allah will
have mercy on them; Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise. Allah hath
promised to believers - men and women - gardens underwhich
rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in
gardens of everlasting bliss; but the greatest bliss is the
good pleasure of Allah: This is the supreme felicity.
Qur'an [9 : 71 - 72]

Narrated Abu Huraira, God's messenger said: "The believers
who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best
disposition and the best of you are those who are best to
their wives." [Tirmidhi]

Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
jannah
10/15/02 at 07:11:38
[wlm]

Bro thanks for the reminder. However, most sisters are *not* out to get only money and a material life. We shouldn't generalize. That's like saying all men are only looking for a beautiful model looking wife and that's it.

There are alot of good sisters who are looking to get married and cannot find anyone available and good muslim, rich or poor ;)

Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
BroHanif
10/15/02 at 15:34:00
[slm],

[quote]There are alot of good sisters who are looking to get married and cannot find anyone available and good muslim, rich or poor [/quote]

Sadly, I have the same problem, if you know of any sisters looking who are not interested in wealth or a high flying career in a bro, please let me know.

Salaams

Hanif
NS
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Abu_Hamza
10/15/02 at 15:39:49
Ahem, Abu Fatimah, aren't you a married man?!
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
BroHanif
10/15/02 at 18:01:33
[slm],

[quote]Abu Fatimah, aren't you a married man[/quote]

Happily, married. Yet what I have  in marrige, I also wish for my brothers and sisters. Thats why if you know any sisters looking, I know of some bros who need a partner.

Salaams

Hanif
NS
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
WhatDFish
10/16/02 at 04:55:42
[quote]There are alot of good sisters who are looking to get married and cannot find anyone available and good muslim, rich or poor [/quote]

they're not lookin in the right places ;)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Barr
10/16/02 at 19:34:23
Assalamu'alaikum

Maybe... maybe they r not looking at the right places  :P

I may be going  a bit off topic here... but.. one of the prophet's recommendations with regards to marriage is not to delay, procrastinate and put it off, particularly for those who have the means.

If something that is recommended by the prophet was highly probable then, but only recently, seemed pretty improbable.. then, perhaps, there's smt wrong in the equation at a macro societal level, particularly in urbanised societies worldwide. A common phenomenon seems to be a higher incidence of singlehood.

I may not have the statistics to back me up for Muslim societies globally, but wot I have observed is that this higher incidence is more common amongst the Muslimahs... particularly the practising ones. Difficulty is experienced. And one wonders why.

I hope my observation is wrong... and maybe, it only applies to the context that I'm living in, but it seems stark to me.

Comments are appreciated. Shukran.

Allahua'lam :-)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
jannah
10/16/02 at 22:59:55
Bro Uthman,

just where are they supposed to look?
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
WhatDFish
10/16/02 at 23:07:42
[slm]

[quote] Difficulty is experienced. And one wonders why.... and maybe, it only applies to the context that I'm living in ...[/quote]

You think so? The answer is pretty simple if you ask me. Difficulty is experienced because muslimahs set too high a standard which makes it impossible for even the good brothers to match their expectations more often than not. At other times, they can't seem to make up their minds. Perhaps this problem is inherent :P, Allahu`alam.

Being ever the pragmatist, it baffles me how some sisters behave when it comes to this. For after all they know marriage is not to be delayed and did the the Prophet [saw] not say, "If he whose character and deen (practice of religion) pleases you, approaches you in marriage, then marry him, for if you don’t, their will be fitna in the land and vast corruption (Tirmidhi and others, see Sunan Tirmidhi #1085 and it is hassan (reliable) as per Sahih ul-Jaami’ #270).
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
jannah
10/16/02 at 23:30:20
Wow bro...

difficulty because they want a good Muslim? What expectations are you speaking of? You sound like that first bro who thinks sisters are only after money??

i doubt any sister delays without reason or circumstances beyond her control. especially in the Muslim community where being unmarried and older is a social nightmare and taboo.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
se7en
10/16/02 at 23:49:03
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah,

[quote]Difficulty is experienced because muslimahs set too high a standard which makes it impossible for even the good brothers to match their expectations more often than not.  At other times, they can't seem to make up their minds.[/quote]

bro, can you please not make the sweeping judgement that *all* sisters in the universe that are unmarried at the moment are materialistic and/or dumb?  Perhaps there are some other factors involved?

Of course there are some that have messed up standards (in the same way some bro's have very messed up standards) but I know *MANY* sisters that are simply looking for a brother who is a good Muslim, has a steady job, and is a legal resident or citizen of the US.  I dunno bro, I don't consider these standards too high, and unfortunately there are many sisters who have not been able to find such brothers..
10/16/02 at 23:50:44
se7en
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
sunset
10/17/02 at 01:30:15
[slm]

I believe both brothers and sisters had set up certain standards for their potential spouse. I also believe that its not our right to tell or think their standards are too high so that is why they remain unmarried. Each bro and sis wishes the best from their potential marriage and spouse so whatever standards they set up I'm sure they believe those are the most important for them. We cannot expect everyone to have the same standards since each one of us has different sets of mind.

Hmm... can we really list down the places which are right/best to find a good potential spouse? I would say masjid is a good place ;) but going to masjid for finding potential spouse would not be a good intention to go to a masjid in the first place ::)

Some people say its easy to find someone with similar interest .For eg if you go to a football match you surely meet football fans. But if you like to find a person with certain attributes/standards for a potential spouse could we find such places? ;)


10/17/02 at 01:34:07
sunset
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
BrKhalid
10/17/02 at 06:14:05
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]But if you like to find a person with certain attributes/standards for a potential spouse could we find such places?[/quote]

Wasn't there a statistical survey done showing a link between a brother's taqwa and his basketball skills?

Maybe Sisters should be heading off to the basketball court more often? ;)


Just kidding ;-)

I think it was tennis actually!!


But seriously it definitely isn’t easy to find people we may like in this day and age.


One question I would ask for those married on the board.

Would you consider "match making", "facilitating" or whatever you want to call it or is this deemed to be the preserve of our beloved aunties?

Similarly, for those unmarried would you be prepared to "network" with more Brothers (or Sisters for females) in order to try and get more contacts and increase your chances of finding someone?

Okay, I know what you're thinking, those are two questions right? ;-)

But generally, is the reason we find it difficult to find someone due to the fact that we don't know enough fellow Muslims in the first place beyond our near relatives?
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Asim
10/17/02 at 09:32:38
Assalaamu alaikum,

Heh, trust the age old topic of marriage to liven the ikhwan folder.

[quote]generally, is the reason we find it difficult to find someone due to the fact that we don't know enough fellow Muslims in the first place beyond our near relatives?[/quote]

Interesting comment... I think this is true. Maybe we don't know enough Muslims *in person*. But from the information driven global village we live in today we *know* that there are potential spouses of a certain standard out there. Putting these two facts? together, our standards tend to increase while our capacity to find someone with that standard remain essentially unchanged (actually I think it has decreased in today's fast paced world). In the olden days, those who wanted to get married "settled" for what was available...from the pool of *real-life-known* potential spouses.

So I guess Uthman's comment that those who are looking to get married aren't looking in the right place is correct. But what are the right places ... there are no good answers for that. Maybe I should develop a search algorithm for this purpose, hehe, hmm, not a bad idea for a research project...

[quote]would you be prepared to "network" with more Brothers (or Sisters for females) in order to try and get more contacts and increase your chances of finding someone?[/quote]

Hmm, what do you mean prepared?! I think most in this situation are actively doing something  similar.

Wasalaam.
10/17/02 at 14:18:46
Asim
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
WhatDFish
10/17/02 at 11:27:15
assalaamu`alaikum

woow . . . woow chill sisters!

Jannah, by expectations, i meant knowledge, education, Eeman etc and i did not mean money etc.

Seven, you read what i wrote totally wrong, nowhere did i make a blanket generalization, and where did materialistic and dumb come from. I said for some of those who experience difficulty. I apologise if it came across as such. Of course there are other factors too.

Someone said theres a reason why Allah makes it difficult. Any comments/thoughts on this?

wa assalaam
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Kathy
10/17/02 at 15:06:30
[slm]

I think I would be a good matchmaker..but I think I need a couple more years of age under my belt for the[u] parents[/u] to trust me.

Because of my many "experiances" in the Muslim world and American world, I think I got a pretty good handle on life and marriage.

8) Now the question would be... would the brother dare present himself to me for consideration?


Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
se7en
10/18/02 at 00:35:50
as salaamu alaykum,

sorry for busting your chops bro 'uthmaan..

[quote]where did materialistic and dumb come from.[/quote]

materialistic -- 'too high expectations'
dumb -- 'not being able to make up their minds'
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Khathija
10/18/02 at 10:02:33
i think we forget that sometimes its the parents, not the sisters, looking for a son-in-law that is well off. most parents just want what's "best" for their daughther/son, and for them that could mean finding a family with tons of money. this way she'll be  "happy"
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Nafisa
10/18/02 at 10:33:06
[slm]

ooh, I couldnt resist chipping in on this little topic!  the issue of networking is something I've been pondering over for a while.  i went to a wedding recently and networking was going on cos there's a lot of single peeps in my community.  personally, i get really shy around blokes and I wouldnt be bothered if i didnt talk to any bros there.  it just feels weird but now i'm thinking i could be putting myself at a disadvantage by not mingling.  

a gd friend of mine tries to introduce peeps to one another cos she thinks that friends often have a better idea of what the other person is looking for rather than say, a parent.  
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
siddiqui
10/18/02 at 12:44:56
[slm]
It was nice reading the discussion but there wasnt too much of emphasis
on parents part of the pie
a)  One one hand there is Allah swt saying treat you parents with utmost respect and dont even say harsh things to them let alone disobey

c) On the other hand parents are fixated with the cultural aspects of their childrens spouses (even though till this time they are teaching you all muslims are bros/sis of each other) Its acceptable for them if you pray next to a muslim bro/sis but it is NOT acceptable that you marry out of you culture.
d) you are in the middle lost & dont know what to do, you know its the right time to marry and maybe you have the right person in mind (islamically) and on the other hand you dont really want to upset the apple cart and displease your parent

e) Time goes by and finally your parenst choose a culturally suitable match for you should  you accept it as fate?( that could be a zulm on the sister for it 'YOU MIGHT NOT ' be 'intellectually' compatible or reject it?(and disobey Allah swt and the prophet  [saw] )

Boy who said getting married was easy and  btw this is just a begining of along journey (which is sometimes a struggle between one,s ego and reality)
[wlm]

Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
dirt
10/18/02 at 18:43:33
[slm]

Bah!  From my own experience I can say that way too many people suffer from the "Grass Is Always Greener" disease.  Many don't even realize they are afflicted with this debilitating illness and it can go undetected and untreated for many years.  The fact is, one will never, ever, never never never find somebody who is absolutely perfect in every way.  Maybe that's we were told not to focus on our mate's bad qualities but on the good ones.  

And another thing...

Perfection in marriage does not exist because perfection in people does not exist.


And one last thing...

I think people get too caught up in the details.  Obviously one needs to take care when choosing a spouse.  I would never say otherwise.  But for some reason, people (the mates to be and their parents)  tend to throw common sense out the window when it comes to this jive.  I see it happen all the time and it's kind of weird.

[wlm]
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Anonymous
10/19/02 at 02:54:41
slm,

Why always blame the women? It goes both ways. Men put obstacles in frony of women as
well.

Secondly, although money should not be a priority it cannot be overlooked. It is
understandable why women want a man who makes decent income. In most cases I would say it is not
greed. They seek stability. Is there anything wrong with that?

And even if the sister is willing to over look money, the parent's in most cases won't.
They just as much desire stability for their daughters.

Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
BrKhalid
10/20/02 at 03:26:27
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]personally, i get really shy around blokes and I wouldnt be bothered if i didnt talk to any bros there. it just feels weird but now i'm thinking i could be putting myself at a disadvantage by not mingling.

a gd friend of mine tries to introduce peeps to one another cos she thinks that friends often have a better idea of what the other person is looking for rather than say, a parent. [/quote]


Apologies Sr Nafisa but I wasn't suggesting brothers network with sisters and vice versa but within their own genders.

For example, you know a sister very well and she introduces you to a friend or relative of hers at a wedding. Now this sister apparently has a brother of marriageable age [something you obviously find out with a touch of discretion ;-) ] and you ask your friend to make further discreet enquiries.

May be I'm being a bit naïve here but surely the more people you get to know, the more likely you are going to come into contact with sisters who have brothers/sons looking for someone similar?

Of course the above is only the first step. The detailed interrogation and questioning comes later ;)


[quote]Hmm, what do you mean prepared?! I think most in this situation are actively doing something similar. [/quote]

Prepared in the sense of actively making an effort to push forward the matter as in my example above.


The problem is it's not an easy thing to ask people straight off the bat if they know of someone who wants to get married or even to declare you are looking yourself.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Anonymous
10/23/02 at 14:33:00
Assalamu Alaikum,

                After reading all these posts I was just wondering, regardless of how high or low our
                expectations are as to marriage, whether we have any say in the matter at all. It says in
                the Qur’an “it is not for any believer, man or woman, when God and His messenger have
                decreed a matter, to have choice in the affair.” Some scholars include marriage among the
                decreed matters. Or is such interpretation wrong? Are we to regard only birth, death, the
                haram and halal things as “decreed”? In other words, is our life partner/s pre-determined? I
                think if this is actually the case no matter what we desire in our hearts Allah will open
                our hearts to the one that is meant to be. What do you think? I’m unmarried and met in
                the hospital a brother a few years older than me almost two years ago. I have not met him
                since. But whenever I think of marriage he is the first one that pops to my mind. It is
                not that I’ve felt anything special for him at that time or later. But it is as if an inner
                voice is telling me, ‘don’t try to think of someone else, he is the one for you. You’ll
                meet him again’. I keep on remembering his smiling face and deep looks. I try to get him
                off my mind but I cannot. AllahuAlim.

                Salams to everyone.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Anonymous
10/25/02 at 18:41:07
"Aankhon mein aake Illaahi yeh kaun nikal gaya,
kiski talaash mein mere Ashkhe-Rawaaan chale"
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Abu_Hamza
10/25/02 at 19:20:49
[quote]"Aajkhon mein aake Illaahi yeh kaun nikal gaya,
kiski talaash mein mere Ashkhe-Rawaaan chale"[/quote]

Good Lord!

Sounds like one of those typical Pakistani "Ladies Digest" poetry!   :P
10/25/02 at 19:22:48
Abu_Hamza
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Maliha
10/25/02 at 20:19:28
[quote author=Anonymous link=board=bro;num=1034668273;start=15#24 date=10/25/02 at 18:41:07]"Aankhon mein aake Illaahi yeh kaun nikal gaya,
kiski talaash mein mere Ashkhe-Rawaaan chale"
[/quote]

[slm]
Translate Please  :)


Maliha :-)
[wlm]
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
siddiqui
10/26/02 at 23:50:31
/"Aankhon mein aake Illaahi yeh kaun nikal gaya,
kiski talaash mein mere Ashkhe-Rawaaan chale"/

Ghubaar/kachra/dust :)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Abu_Hamza
10/27/02 at 02:39:44
:-/  :-/  :-/
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
BrKhalid
10/27/02 at 05:09:13
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

Okay put us all out of our miseries. What *does* that mean? ;-)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Abu_Hamza
10/27/02 at 23:42:24
"O Lord, who came into these eyes and then left suddenly?
For whose sake did the tears come out searching from my eyes!"

Ghubaar = karchraa = dust :)

Madina Urdu Translator  8)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
jannah
10/28/02 at 00:09:09
Gosh you guys are so mean!!! It could be talking about love of Allah or something sheeh!

[wlm]

Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
alzinjibar
10/28/02 at 05:54:41
[slm]

Sa
I hope you're all fine and in the best of health as well as iman for you and your
Beloved ones. Mmm nope I think there are many wonderful sisters, who are really into
spirituality more interested in their state of iman, then the last Coco Chanel #19 or
the latest Lemon Thai silk blouse of G Ferre. Yes there are some sisters who are blessed
with iman and are more interested with their Din, who'll be more touched by a simple
thing in life then $, a wisp of a cool summer breeze at sundown or the sparkling eyes of
a 2 year old who sees a butterfly for the first time might touch her in the core of her
soul as oppose to " stuff ". It's just a matter of time and patience. Subnh'Allah what a
paradox , we toil from kindergarten till college for years in books, covering from Quantum Physiques to the perspicacity of Tolstoi. Yet when we are looking for the special one the “One” whom we are longing for, we want it now and then. mmm
no I believe one should make tons of dua, with khushu' and ikhlas, and let your Creator
guide you towards Whom He has chosen for you for your own good, despite what you might think ,believe and/or do. He(swt) will provide for you as He has been providing you with Health, Food, Shelter, well-being and the endless blessings known and unknown to us. He (swt (knows our needs better then we can even fathom, He(swt) knows how much we are yearning, craving and a thousands other reasons for that companion. Cultivate Sabr, and keep on making dua it will come in due time, place and manner. As for where, get yourself involve in your community try as much as you can for there are a million things which can be done. By surrounding your self with that milieu so much good will come out of it and maybe you'll meet some one who has the same aspirations inclinations , motivations with whom you could share together the journey towards your Rab.  One could go to the end of the planet
looking for that special One, and yet she's just next door, but it wasn't meant for your
to meet yet or envision each other as your soul partner, a gift from the Merciful. And
if you meet that "special" person and you try to make things work out in order for the 2
of you to get married and things don't work out for any reasons, know that perhaps it's
not meant for you, that's you destiny and whatever reasons which came up to "mess" things up , are just asbab. Don’t dwell on those issues and don’t let them "bog " you down, draw some lessons and hikma from them, despite the initial pain, anger, anguish, depression and huzn you might feel. Know that The Merciful has blessed you by not allowing that to happen, it's a blessing in either ways you might look at it, for it's either a trial to test you and if you are patient you'll be rewarded or it's a blessing because He's protecting you from a greater trial. Learn from it brother but don’t generalize as for your sisters whom you think are more interested in $$$, then make dua for them for after all they are your beloved sisters despite their shortcomings they might not know or haven’t yet the level of understanding or iman you have

" Our prayers of forgiveness needs many prayers of forgiveness " ;-)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
theOriginal
10/28/02 at 13:47:28
[slm]

I don't know why this is being made so complicated.  It's a social problem, that is spilling into other aspects of life.  Yes I want to marry someone with a strong imaan, a good job, a reputable family, etc etc.

Perhaps it makes me shallow.  But then again, perhaps not.  You see, I have been (as have many other women my age) brought up in a very comfortable, secure household.  My parents are highly educated, and they expect the same from me.  They, also, hope for the same from their sons-in-law and daughters-in-law.  Be honest, really.  Who in their right mind would WANT to marry someone who is immensely flawed?  

Calculus:

Let X = Imperfection.  
Because, as bro dirt pointed out:
[quote]Perfection in marriage does not exist because perfection in people does not exist. [/quote]    

Now think of a potential spouse as a function of imperfection.
Let f(X) = potential spouse.

f(X) = some function of imperfection.

Optimize, in other words, do the math:
Minimize * f(X)
So, f'(X) = 0, where f''(X) > 0

But of course, we already know thay f'(X) d.n. = 0
And by virtue of that fact, we already know that f'(X) d.n. = infinity
Because no one can be totally imperfect (although I know a few people who come close ;) ).  

Is it really so bad?  To eliminate the increased chance of imperfection, by eliminating some imperfect qualities?

btw, if anyone can actually figure out somewhere to take my over-simplifed equation, help me out.  Coz it's bugging me now.  Perhaps I should make it a function of X,Y, and Z, and then take partial derivatives, and maximize em instead?

(I have too much time on my hands, perhaps I should start my thesis.)

Wasalaam.

SF.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Ruqayyah
10/28/02 at 15:03:06
[slm]

jazak allahuma khair alzinjibar for sharing those thoughts and reminding us to "cultivate our sabr".  :)

[wlm]
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Al-Basha
10/28/02 at 20:02:34
[slm]

You gotta love this thread, first it starts off talking about zawaj and then someone throws in those nasty calculus optimization problems i could never get the hang of  ;)

But yeah I think the important thing is not to put the blame soley on anyone. One thing I have learned in life is that very few aspects of life (including marriage) are completely black and white.

To put a spin on things, its ironic that a lot of people (including myself) tend to see things that way, ie its either true or false, 0 or 1, positive or negative, when Allah made humans to be trichromatic basically meaning we can see color that is made up of 3 different wavelengths.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Mohja
10/28/02 at 22:08:26
ok i tried to stay out of it but reading this:

[quote]
Who in their right mind would WANT to marry someone who is immensely flawed?
[/quote]

 :D...does this mean i'm never getting married?   :o

albasha is right! this thread belongs in the madina hall of sh..err fame :)

jazakum Allahu kheyran al-zinjibar for the beautiful post!


Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
BrKhalid
10/29/02 at 05:22:08
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)


[quote]Perhaps I should make it a function of X,Y, and Z, and then take partial derivatives, and maximize em instead? [/quote]


I think we should have a rule in the Constitution banning all types of multivariate calculus!!! Single is bad enough thank you very much ;)


But just a couple of points to Sr Original's thesis:


[quote]Perfection in marriage does not exist because perfection in people does not exist[/quote]


How about trying to maximise perfection [or taqwa] instead of minimising imperfection?


In my theory you have two variables, being the perfection [or taqwa] of the husband and the wife which leads to perfection in marriage

Let's call them X and Y.

Hence the problem becomes maximising f[x, y]

Now my hypothesis says that x also has an effect on y. Thus if a brother works on increasing his perfection then he will influence the level of perfection in his future wife and vice versa.

My evidence for this statement comes from the following verse:

…women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable[24:26]


So there you go. Maximise perfection in marriage by maximising your own perfection first.

I'll leave Sr Original to tell you how all the math works!! ;-)


As ever though, only Allah knows best.


Wasalaam
Br Khalid
10/29/02 at 05:24:29
BrKhalid
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
rchater
10/29/02 at 14:29:52
[slm]
What a popular topic!!! Makes me want to put a word in...which I will :)

I'm a woman and alhamdullilah I consider myself fairly religious ( meaning I pray, try avoid haram, and also avoid cheating people, etc..). From my point of view, it's great to look for a man who's religious but is there really such a thing? I don't think so and no matter how close to it he was, he might have some other bad qualities like being lazy. ( OR he COULD be a hypocrite! Watch out sister's--there's alot of them out there!)
To me, money is a BIG deal because it's the # 1 reason why couples fight. So if he had it believe me it would really help in making you happy because we know we will never have perfection. Soooooo, here are the things to look for for a hubby...

1.)money

2.)religion ( just because it's something you cannot know for sure until   after marraige)

3.)status

4.)looks  

Actually I have a correction to make. Akhlaq should be the # 1 thing to look for and then money.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Nafisa
10/29/02 at 15:18:21
[quote]Apologies Sr Nafisa but I wasn't suggesting brothers network with sisters and vice versa but within their own genders. [/quote]

no need to apologize Bro it's me who was getting all confused!  the thing is peeps round here do mingle with brothers and so that's what i thought of when you mentioned networking.  

[quote]May be I'm being a bit naïve here but surely the more people you get to know, the more likely you are going to come into contact with sisters who have brothers/sons looking for someone similar? [/quote]

Oh yeah, that i can do and it makes sense cos friends are more likely to know what you're looking for.

i'd just like to comment on the money for a moment. it seems some bros are irked by sisters who look for wealth in a spouse but i think it's an important factor.  although not the most important obviously.  however, if a sista is used to a certain life style marrying someone with less money can be a problem.  it shouldnt be that way and there are exceptions but that's the way it is.  


Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
dirt
10/29/02 at 21:45:02
[slm]
[quote] From my point of view, it's great to look for a man who's religious but is there really such a thing? I don't think so and no matter how close to it he was, he might have some other bad qualities like being lazy. ( OR he COULD be a hypocrite! Watch out sister's--there's alot of them out there!)
To me, money is a BIG deal because it's the # 1 reason why couples fight. So if he had it believe me it would really help in making you happy because we know we will never have perfection. [/quote]

Whoa.

I have a few problems with the things you just said.  

A)  So there is no such thing as a religious man?

B)  Why is money such a BIG deal to you?  You think money can bring you happiness?  True happiness?  Hardly.  Money is only a tool and as such, it is not a source of true happiness.  Money doesn't bring happiness, Allah SWT does.  

In fact, I would go so far as to say that you make a case for marrying a poor man.  You state that money is the source of many problems in marriage (This is not a verifiable statement, but I'll go along with it).  Well, by your logic, if a couple had no money, then they would have less worries and fights.....no?  Or to put it simply.....more money, more problems.  If you think money buys happiness, I think you are sadly mistaken.

C)  Anytime I hear women bashing men or men bashing women it sends a shiver up my spine.  Madness, absolute madness.

[wlm]
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
jannah
10/30/02 at 02:03:27
The Meaning of The Holy Qur'an. Surah:24. An-Nur. Ayah 32

<Al-Qalam>  32.Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, God will give them means out of His grace: for God encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
jaihoon
10/30/02 at 02:44:14
i think the money factor depends on the lifestyle of the spouses.

If money ant bring happiness, neither can poverty, 'coz the system is such... unless if the couple decides to live on an isolated island.

But those who are already married can have a better say in this matter, since they might already know how marriage in theory is different from real practice.

:)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
ascetic
10/30/02 at 03:29:56
A little joke in the spirit of things:

This very rich chap's got a beautiful daughter who he wants to marry off, but her husband must be a man of courage so he places an ad in the local rag offering the hand of his beautiful daughter and half his wealth to any one who will marry her.

A great many blokes turn up to the designate spot at the designated time and they are confronted by a 50 meter swimming pool full of very large and hungry sharks.

"Right," says the father, "This is the deal. Anyone who is prepared to swim the length of the pool can have the hand of my daughter and half my wealth."

For about 10 minutes nothing happens then all of a sudden there is a splash at the end of the pool and this bloke makes a mad thrashing dash to the end of the pool where he is pulled out. Both legs and both arms are gone.

The father rushes to him with tears in his eyes and says, "That is the bravest thing I have ever seen anyone do so you can have my daughter in marriage and half my wealth, is there anything else you want?"

"Yes," said the swimmer, "I want the name of the idiot who pushed me in!!!!"
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Red
10/30/02 at 12:49:10
[slm],

How did i miss this fun thread  :)


Now here's my question to people, who are pakistani or another nationality, who have grown up here in the US.  Would you marry somebody back home, who never grew up here?
10/30/02 at 13:24:22
Red
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
theOriginal
10/30/02 at 18:14:03
[slm]

[quote]who are pakistani or another nationality, who have grown up here in the US.  Would you marry somebody back home, who never grew up here?[/quote]

I think I would.  That is one thing that is lowest on my priority level (I know my parents would disgaree.)  It's not an issue, as long as he has at least half a brain, and a personality ;)  (to match my half-brain, and lack of personality.)  

Just an additional thought:  Why worry?  Just make du'aa and trust Allah.  Always thought fretting about future marriage (which is the main concern for people in all cultures) happens to be a waste of time, emotions, and brain space.  

But then what would I know.  I am a self-proclaimed cynic and skeptic.

Wasalaam.

SF.  
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Anonymous
10/30/02 at 23:34:37
[slm]
Phew! The mood is somber in here
*"Aankhon mein aake Illaahi yeh kaun nikal gaya,
kiski talaash mein mere Ashkhe-Rawaaan chale"*
This was wriiten in extension (exaggertaion :) )to the earlier reply
some people thought it was out of some urdu potboiler ladies disgest(laughed a lot :)),
some brushed it off as dust ,while some extended it to the realtionship between the
creator and created :o
Here's another one to lighten up the mood ;)
"Hum dua likhtein hain woh daghaa padhte hain
ek nokhtae ne mahram se mujrim bana diya " ;)

And for the curious Anglophile it means
'I write duas ( regards,best wishes) and they read it as daghaa (dishonesty)
One nokhta ( dot) has made a mahram  a mujrim (criminal)"
[wlm]

On a serious note
Is coveting for money to do wassalul Arhaam (sila rahmi ,spending it on realtives ) or to
spend in other ways for Allah swt wrong?
If no why is it made to look like something real real bad ;)


Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
M.F.
10/31/02 at 09:55:50
Bismillah,
I think the greatest example we can learn from is that of Ali (RA) and Fatimah, the daughter of the Last of the Prophets and Best of Creation.  Someone told Ali that he should try to ask for Fatimah's hand in marriage.  His initial answer was that he was poor, and had nothing to offer her.  The person told him that if he asked for her hand, the Prophet (S) would marry her to him.
So he went to ask for her hand.  He was so shy that he couldn't speak.  The Prophet (S) smiled at him and said: "Perhaps you've come to ask for Fatimah's hand in marriage?".  Ali said: yes (that's all he could say... imagine his shyness :) )   The Prophet (S) said: Do you have anything to marry her with (dowry)?  He said: No.... So the first question he (S) asked was about dowry (of course he already knows Ali very well as he was raised in his home).  The Prophet (S) said: don't you have a shield?  He answered: yes, but it's only worth about 400 dhs.  The Prophet (S) said: I'll marry her to you.  
The point wasn't how much money he had.  The dowry was almost something symbolic.  If there was ever any parent who should have asked for lots of money for his daughter because of her status... it would have been the Best of Creation.  But he (S) was the one who said: "whoever comes to you (to ask for your daughter's hand in marriage) and you like his religion and his character, marry him to her."
I think it's very important that these two things be given equal weight.  Liking someone's character doesn't mean liking his adab only.  It can mean judging him to be compatible with your daughter.  In fact, still within the same example, Abu Bakr and Umar both had asked for Fatimah's hand in marriage beforehand, but Rasul Allah (S) told them that Fatimah was young (and they were quite a bit older than she was).  It's not that he found fault with their deen, far from it, or with their khuluq, but he didn't judge them to be compatible.
Wallahu a'lam.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
safa
11/04/02 at 04:01:48
Just a thought ...
May be the practicing brothers are so hard to find because its the non-practicing ones who have a high profile.
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
Red
11/04/02 at 10:33:19
[slm],

[quote author=safa link=board=bro;num=1034668273;start=45#48 date=11/04/02 at 04:01:48]Just a thought ...
May be the practicing brothers are so hard to find because its the non-practicing ones who have a high profile.
[/quote]

What do you mean by "high profile" ?

wasalam,
red  :)
Re: IT IS OUT OF CHARGE
safa
11/11/02 at 05:19:07
[quote]What do you mean by "high profile" ?  [/quote]

Those who are more in the limelight.


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