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Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramadan
bhaloo
11/08/02 at 07:50:30
[slm] Tafseer (Explanation) Of President Bush's Message For Ramadan Nov 08, 2002 Souce: Hizballahjihad I send greetings to Muslims in the United States and around the world as you observe the holy month of Ramadan. [I extend warm greetings to all Muslims who support my Crusade against Islam and Muslims – to all the others, I extend my deepest enmity.] Islam is a peace-loving faith that is practiced by more than one billion people, including millions of American Muslims. [The Islam we have created has very little to do with the revealed revelation of Allah (swt). Our brand of Islam reduces it to a religion, a non-entity, devoid of political life, subservient to Western interests. In a nutshell, the Islam we know is ‘Capitalist-Islam’.] These proud citizens contribute to the diversity that makes our country strong, and the United States is grateful for the friendship and support of many Muslim Nations that are vital partners in the global coalition to fight against terrorism. [We work to subvert Islam and kill Muslims daily. We pray for their health as long as they can work for our industries. We wish to extend our thanks to the submissive rulers of the Muslim Nations that have opened up their lands, airspace and waters so that we can continue to increase our hegemony throughout the Muslim world and prevent any semblance of Islamic political resurgence. In particular we salute Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan who has killed and tortured many Muslims who seek to establish an Islamic State, Hamid Karzai who has rendered his services to us and remains a loyal servant, and the Arab rulers who have kindly stood by while Sharon butchered the Muslims of Palestine. We look forward to their forthcoming support for our impending attack on Iraq.] The Qur'an teaches that Ramadan is a time for fasting, prayer, worship, and contemplation. Muslims observe this month by renewing their dedication to caring for those in need, doing good deeds, and strengthening family and community ties. These actions reflect many of the values that Muslims share with people of other faiths across our Nation and around the world, including courage, compassion, and service. [We do not want Muslims to understand that Ramadan in history was a month of victory for Islam and Muslims. We do not want them to know that the Conquest of Makkah, the Battle of Badr and the liberation of Al-Quds (Jerusalem) by Salahuddin occurred in the month of Ramadan. We would much rather that Muslims remain solely occupied with fasting, prayer, worship and contemplation. Our aim is to keep Muslims under the shackles of Colonialism. ] America remains committed to freedom, justice, and opportunity for all people. During this season of reverence and examination, we continue to work together for a future of peace, tolerance, and understanding. [The USA remains committed to oppression, tyranny and colonialism. During Ramadan we will continue to kill Muslims in Afghanistan (we also did this last Ramadan, if you remember) and we will make hasty preparations for our impending war on the people of Iraq. We will work together with those who accept Capitalism and its colonialist worldview. Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.] Laura joins me in sending our best wishes for a blessed time. May you be well during Ramadan and throughout the coming year. removed by bhaloo GEORGE W. BUSH President of the United States of America [Terrorist of the United States of America]
11/11/02 at 09:25:02
bhaloo

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Barr
11/08/02 at 10:17:07
Assalamu'alaikum :-) Why is there a need to decipher all of these? Why is there a need to demonise? Why are we adding words that others did not say? :(

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
ltcorpest2
11/08/02 at 14:51:06
The Arab refugee camps, where hundreds of thousands of people are kept in sub-standard living conditions, are managed by the Palestinians themselves. It would have been expected that the plight of the refugees would have drawn generous philanthropic help from their kinfolk and co-religionists, but financial maintenance of the camps is left to UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency in the Near East. Where do the funds come from? In recent years the United States provided 30 per cent of the budget. Less than one per cent came from wealthy Saudi Arabia. The records show that Syria gave $37,000 US and Egypt only $10,000 US. Iraq and Libya gave nothing. Tafseer (Explanation) Of President Bush's Message For Ramadan Nov 08, 2002   Souce: Hizballahjihad I send greetings to Muslims in the United States and around the world as you observe the holy month of Ramadan.   [I extend warm greetings to all Muslims who support my Crusade against Islam and Muslims – to all the others, I extend my deepest enmity.]   of course,  the usa is evil in whatever we do,  bahloo did you have a bad morning?

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
ltcorpest2
11/08/02 at 15:30:30
Laura joins me in sending our best wishes for a blessed time. May you be well during Ramadan and throughout the coming year.   [Laura also extends best wishes to all Muslims who support the Crusade against Islam and Muslims – to all the others, she extends her deepest enmity. The USA will ensure that during Ramadan and throughout the coming year we will work to cement further our hegemony over your lands, resources and minds Bahloo,  I doubt you have any idea about what Laura Bush thinks about anything.  Did you make this up or did you copy it from somewhere else?  It is silly rubbish that makes all muslims look bad.  Boy, after the madina vacation i thought what a nice place to visit,  now geez the vacation is over.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Duha
11/08/02 at 18:10:12
[quote author=Barr link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=0#1 date=11/08/02 at 10:17:07]Assalamu'alaikum :-) Why is there a need to decipher all of these? Why is there a need to demonise? Why are we adding words that others did not say? :([/quote] well said sister.. ‘Not a word does he (or she) utter but there is a watcher by him ready (to record it)’ [Qaaf 50:18] It is narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day, let him speak good or else keep silent…” (Al-Bukhaari -6018) Wassalam alaikum :-)

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Duha
11/08/02 at 18:12:57
[quote author=Duha link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=0#4 date=11/08/02 at 18:10:12] (Al-Bukhaari -6018) [/quote] lol..that was (Al-Bukhaari 6018  ) [slm] :-)

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Raindrops
11/08/02 at 19:57:57
[slm] I think that actions speak louder than words and the words of the President become meaningless when the actions of his government are totally opposite to what is being said ..... I don't know how people can still think him sincere after all the discriminatory steps that have been taken against Muslims and continue to be taken...... It's time people woke up to the true nature of things ....It's a good habit to give people the benefit of doubt but enough is enough.....also it is said that a muslim never gets bitten twice from the same hole...... As far as the governments of Muslim countries are concerned most of them are not considered to be Islamic and the people of those countries would be the first to agree......they are commonly believed to be just puppets so it comes as no surprise that they have not helped out the Palestiniens as befitted true Muslims .......but that dosn't mean that people under those same governments don't try to do their best to help their fellow muslim brothers to the best of their abilities......but in Islam you are not supposed to advertise your charity work so people don't usually come to hear of all the work that they try to do.......  Dropping food during the day and bombs during the night .....I don't know but it just dosn't make sense :(.......By this parable I mean to make clear what the US aid to Palestine is really like .......they give them things to make them look good to the world but not enough to be of any real use and then they give the other side weapons and their full political support to kill and annihilate the innocent people.... ???

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
ltcorpest2
11/08/02 at 21:41:18
I think that actions speak louder than words and the words of the President become meaningless when the actions of his government are totally opposite to what is being said ..... that is exactly correct,  there are also many private american charities that help the palestinians but in Islam you are not supposed to advertise your charity work so people don't usually come to hear of all the work that they try to do....... that is the same in any religion, but we are not advertizing it,  ill bet most muslims dont think that the usa does anything.   But ill bet they don't know that their governments dont do squat for the palestinians either

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/09/02 at 07:43:07
[quote]But ill bet they don't know that their governments dont do squat for the palestinians either[/quote] I don't think that's exactly true either.  Practically half of Jordan is made up of ethnic Palestinians! Many governments have been allowing them into their countries en masse and built and provided refugee camps for Palestinians. And there is quite a trickle of financial support that trickles in as well. As for the above message I don't think it's very proper. However, all the points are quite correct. Bush seems to say one thing and his foreign policy reflects another. It's like when they dropped bags of rice/whatever that said USAID on Afghanistan after bombing an already bombed out wartorn country and then showed that all over the media. Insult after injury...

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Kashif
11/11/02 at 04:57:49
assalaamu alaikum Good post bhaloo, and excellent post Myst, masha'Allah. And shame on people who think that we should have husnu-dhann of President Bush. And that first line of 'tafseer' hits the nail right on the head. As long as you remain a brown sahib who will carry on trying to preach to the masses how great Islam & Democracy are, the American President will love to extend his salaam to you. But the moment you step out of line and express some support for a Palestinian, or Iraqi, you will be described as a fundamentalist, a supporter of extremists, etc. And Mike, the US payment of the upkeep of the camps pails into insignificance when you know that it is the US's foreign policy that put the Palestinians there, and the same policy that is keeping them there. Kashif Wa Salaam
NS

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
elite_ansaar
11/11/02 at 05:46:27
Asalam Alaykum Actions speak louder than words. Bush has launched a crusade against Islam and muslims, so I cannot accept his "blessings" for Ramadan, especially at a time he is so eager to inflict more death and destruction on muslims. I hope our brothers and sisters in the states do not fall for his propoganda.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Barr
11/11/02 at 07:05:19
Assalamu'alaikum :-) [quote]And shame on people who think that we should have husnu-dhann of President Bush.[/quote] I'm not sure if you r referring to my post. But this is my two cents... It is not a matter of husnudzon.. there's a difference between having good thoughts (and hence, giving excuses) and getting fooled by mere sweet words. I'm not gonna go into the nitty gritties of Bush's intentions. That is not my place. My point was that there r manners and ethics of giving criticism. Let criticism be made constructively and objectively, with facts of truth. Instead of stirring unproductive emotions and dzon. One doesn't need to adopt such a manner as the above article to criticise the big irony...for those who think can weigh and see wot is just, behind those words. Because, if any of those points in the post (no matter how little) does not coincide with the truth...  wot would have transpired, then? Allahua'lam :-)
11/11/02 at 08:37:40
Barr

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
theOriginal
11/11/02 at 09:21:00
[slm] [quote][The Islam we have created has very little to do with the revealed revelation of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala). Our brand of Islam reduces it to a religion, a non-entity, devoid of political life, subservient to Western interests. In a nutshell, the Islam we know is ‘Capitalist-Islam’.]  [/quote] Makes you think.  I think it's a linguistic incommenserability.  Because, as Muslims, Islam is a "deen" ... a word that doesn't REALLY have a translation in English.  When you employ the word "Religion"...it really does reduce it to a "non-entity".  I think for the most part, this is what confuses people.  They see a multitude of Muslims who place Islam above all else, something they are unable to do with anything but their own self-interested ego. There's a Buddhist saying..."you can't see the big white mountain if you are standing on it."  Or something to that effect....and I think that this is a really good analogy for America.  It's a big white mountain, and you can't judge it in an unbiased fashion until you step out of that paradigm. Wasalaam. SF.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/11/02 at 09:24:25
[slm] [quote author=Barr link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=0#11 date=11/11/02 at 07:05:19] Let criticism be made constructively and objectively, with facts of truth. [/quote] Here are some facts to ponder over: * Bush is the most popular president ever in the HISTORY of the United States.   (This is according to ABC News, or maybe I read it on MSN, where they said he had the highest approval rating of any other president at the mid-term point.)  This comes after he has bombed and attacked so many innocent Muslims around the world (Afghanistan), jailed so many Muslims in America, treated Muslims inhumanely in these concentration camps, done targeted assasinations (Yemen for example with the missle that killed 8 Muslims).  It is as if the Muslim lives mean nothing to them. * The leaders of the Christians in America have attacked Islam and the Prophet (SAW).  Graham (whom the Bush family listen to and attend his services), Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell have all done this and very little is done to respond to these religious bigots.  The number of Americans that don't know anything about Islam or are scared of it has gone up significantly since September 11th of last year (according to ABC News), and statements from the leaders of the Christians has made it worse. * Most Americans want to go to war with Iraq, and consider that to be America's biggest problem right now.    Again this was from ABC News (and America is even in a recession where millions are losing their jobs, and they are worried about Iraq?).  Millions of Muslim children have died because of the nuclear weapons used by the US in Iraq in the last war (depleted uranium shells),.  How can people be so brainwashed?  Don't they see that all of what has happened is only about the oil, about robbing the Muslim lands of their wealth? The conclusion: * America is at war with Islam and Muslims, it is a crusade against Islam. The question is, what can we do about it as Muslims living in the west? *prayer * economic boycott. what else? Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi said some time back said that the means to support Palestine Muslim brethren is a complete boycott of the enemies’ goods. “Each riyal, dirham …etc. used to buy their [U.S., Israeli] goods eventually becomes a bullet fired at the hearts of a brother or a child in Palestine,” he said. “For this reason, it is an obligation not to help them. To buy their goods is to support tyranny, oppression and aggression. Buying goods from them will strengthen them; our duty is to make them as weak as we can.” “American goods, exactly like ‘Israeli’ goods, are forbidden. It is also forbidden to advertise these goods,” Al-Qaradawi added. “America today is a second Israel. It totally supports the Zionist entity. The usurper could not do this without the support of America. “Israel’s” unjustifiable destruction and vandalism of everything has been using American money, American weapons, and the American veto. America has done this for decades without suffering the consequences of any punishment or protests about their oppressive and prejudiced position from the Islamic world.” Al-Qaradawi added that the time has come for the Islamic Ummah (people) to say “No” to America, “NO” to its companies, and “NO” to its goods, which swamp our markets. Mike how come you don't speak out against American terrorist activities?  If your wondering why the rest of the world hates America, I think you have your answers there.   The article was not by me but it was something I came across recently in response to Bush's speech.  Your right, it wasn't proper for the person writing it to put words in the mouth of his wife.  So I will edit that part.  But the other statements, are things that BUsh has done, and people need to wake up and realize this, that this man is a liar.  It would be good that if you speak up against these injustices .
11/11/02 at 09:28:03
bhaloo

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/11/02 at 09:31:09
[slm] [quote author=theOriginal link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=0#12 date=11/11/02 at 09:21:00] There's a Buddhist saying..."you can't see the big white mountain if you are standing on it."  Or something to that effect....and I think that this is a really good analogy for America.  It's a big white mountain, and you can't judge it in an unbiased fashion until you step out of that paradigm. [/quote] Canadians are always thinking of snow and mountains.   8)  But that is a good point, that one needs to examine things from the other person's point of view.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
theOriginal
11/11/02 at 10:21:08
[slm] [quote]Canadians are always thinking of snow and mountains. [/quote] Not true, eh?  Sometimes my mind wanders off to think about other domestically important things, like maple syrup and quebec sovereignty. I re-read the thread, and something is really going to bug me until I get the answer... What is "husnu dhann"??...I'm guessing it's something to do with verbal protection...but I could be totally wrong. Wasalaam. SF.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
deenb4dunya
11/11/02 at 13:10:39
Assalamu Alaikum Fellow Canadian:), Husnu Azzan means in simple terms- assuming the best. If its' still not clear-- feel free to ask for a further explanation. Wassalamu Alaiku, Deen

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/11/02 at 15:26:33
[slm] Kashif I don't think the criticism of the post is about husna-dhann but about putting words into other peoples mouths. Like we said, the points are correct, but it's not proper to write it in the fashion that someone said something they didn't. The original writer could have just said, here's what Bush said but in his actions or what he's said elsewhere.. .etc. blah blah... same difference? i think it's a big difference.. and it's the difference between dawah -getting our message across and anti-dawah - saying something correct but doing it in a shady way that turns everyone off.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Abu_Hamza
11/11/02 at 15:56:08
[slm] [quote]The question is, what can we do about it as Muslims living in the west?[/quote] [quote]Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi said some time back said that the means to support Palestine Muslim brethren is a complete boycott of the enemies’ goods.   “Each riyal, dirham …etc. used to buy their [U.S., Israeli] goods eventually becomes a bullet fired at the hearts of a brother or a child in Palestine,” he said. “For this reason, it is an obligation not to help them. To buy their goods is to support tyranny, oppression and aggression. Buying goods from them will strengthen them; our duty is to make them as weak as we can.”   “American goods, exactly like ‘Israeli’ goods, are forbidden. It is also forbidden to advertise these goods,” Al-Qaradawi added. “America today is a second Israel. It totally supports the Zionist entity. The usurper could not do this without the support of America. “Israel’s” unjustifiable destruction and vandalism of everything has been using American money, American weapons, and the American veto. America has done this for decades without suffering the consequences of any punishment or protests about their oppressive and prejudiced position from the Islamic world.”   Al-Qaradawi added that the time has come for the Islamic Ummah (people) to say “No” to America, “NO” to its companies, and “NO” to its goods, which swamp our markets.[/quote] This quote is very troubling for me.  A lot of times I see Shaykh Qaradawi being quoted on the internet about various issues and I'm not sure if he himself would approve of it or would even appreciate it.  The reason is because a lot of times he says things and gives fatawa in a certain context, in a certain situation, to a certain (group of) people.  To use his sayings and fatawa outside of their context then is a disservice to the declarations of the respectable shaykh. I know one particular fatwa that Shaykh Qaradawi had made about the mortgage issue a few years ago at a gathering.  Someone wrote up that fatwa and started distributing it, attributing it to Shaykh Qaradawi.  Oh, he didn't misquote the shaykh.  But the shaykh had given that fatwa to that gathering, to those people, living in that particular town and place, at that particular time.   I am almost *certain* that the above quote of his was given to a specific audience.  That audience being residents of Muslim countries (if not some *particular* Muslim countries).  There is no way that what he said applies to Muslims living in the West. For example, look at these portions: [quote]Each riyal, dirham …etc. used[/quote] He did not say "dollar" nor did he say "pound."  Coincidence?  I don't think so. [quote]American goods, exactly like ‘Israeli’ goods, are forbidden.[/quote] Shaykh Qaradawi speaks Arabic, so he must have said "haram" where it says "forbidden."  How can a shaykh of his caliber declare American goods to be haram for people living in America?  What are we to buy if we don't buy American goods.  Tell me, can you live in this country without buying *any* American goods?  Don't tell me "just try your best" because that still says to me - according to this seemingly universal fatwa - that I will be indulging in haraam, albeit some of it! [quote]say “No” to America, “NO” to its companies, and “NO” to its goods, which swamp our markets.[/quote]   The last two words of the above quote give a clear indication what audience he has in mind, and that it does *not* include Muslims living in the West.   Moreover, how can Muslims living in the West be expected to say "no" to American companies?  Don't we even *work* in US companies?  How can you live in America and never shop at a grocery store?  Departmental store?  Pharmacy?  Gas station?  How can you possibly abandon *all* American goods while living *inside* this country, pray tell. You cannot.  It's ridiculous for even laymen like us to demand something like this, let alone Shaykh Qaradawi!   Shaykh Qaradawi did not say these words to be internalized and implemented by Muslims living in the West.  Indeed he has other discourses where he has spoken to Muslims living in the West, and his words are *very* different.  He is a man of wisdom, a man of scholarship.  He knows his audience, and he knows what to say when and to whom.  Unfortunately, many of his (acclaimed) students are not living up to the standard he has put forth. May Allah (swt) preserve Shaykh Qaradawi, give him a long life, increase him in his knowledge, wisdom and valor for this Deen.  Let us be careful how we quote our teachers.  Let us not become the cause for people to turn away from the few shuyookh that this ummah is left with, because we portray them and their words in a way that they themselves would not even approve of. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/12/02 at 00:40:23
[slm] [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=15#18 date=11/11/02 at 15:56:08]I am almost *certain* that the above quote of his was given to a specific audience.  That audience being residents of Muslim countries (if not some *particular* Muslim countries).  There is no way that what he said applies to Muslims living in the West. For example, look at these portions: [/quote] Are you actually serious?  This fatawa is well known, the source I obtained it from was from the New York Times news,  you can find it on the popular jamiat.org.za website, and it was on Sheikh Qaradawi's www.islamonline.net website (which is intended for US based audiences).    I'll post it in complete detail for you a similiar fatawa from Sheikh Qaradawi, but to address your question specifically about U.S. Muslims, he said that we have to do as much as we can (paraphrasing him, and I'll post the complete fatawa for you, so we don't have another episode like the last post). This is from www.islamonline.net Question: Recently, there has been much hue and cry concerning boycotting American and Israeli products. Could you please furnish me with a comprehensive and detailed Fatwa concerning the issue?   Answer: Name of Mufti Islam Online Fatwa Editing Desk   Content of Reply In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Dear questioner, thank you for the great confidence you have in us. We hope our efforts meet your expectations. Indeed, it has been proven beyond doubt that boycotting American and Israeli products is an effective weapon against those who usurped the land of the wronged and forcibly drove them out of the land of their ancestors for no reason. Here below, we will try our best to furnish you with a comprehensive answer regarding boycotting the Israeli and American products.  Sheikh Al-Qaradawi’s Fatwa regarding the issue: “When it comes to dealing with the People of the Book (i.e. the Jews and Christians), we should differentiate between two main points: Muslims are not allowed to indulge in any form of dealings with the militant Jews who tend to wage war against Islam and Muslims with every tooth and nail. What do we expect from those who occupied our lands, violated the sanctity of the Sanctuaries, and continue their brutal profaning against all that which is Islamic in broad daylight?! Referring to this, Allah Almighty says: “Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them (All) such are wrong doers.” (Al-Mumtahanah: 9) The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: “Fight the Kuffar with your hands, with your money and with your tongues as well (i.e. denouncing their aggressions against Muslims) The choice of peace is no longer practicable for us Muslims, regarding this issue, especially with many obstacles hindering its course. Hence, we have no any effective weapon but to boycott the US and Israeli products. That is why it is obligatory upon Muslims to boycott the Jews economically, culturally and politically. In addition, boycott should be extended to encompass those warring factions from among the People of the Book such as the Serbs, Americans who attack Muslims, Hindus as well as those who relentlessly wage war against Islam or even support those who wage war against Muslims.   Coming to the second greater segment of the People of the Book (i.e. Christians) and others as we have stated above, we can say that if they are at swords drawn with Muslims, then all their products have to be boycotted. However, if they are at peace with Muslims, then there is nothing wrong with exchanging imports and exports with them but under the condition that such form of trade be limited to that which is lawful only. Allah Almighty says: “Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo ! Allah loveth the just dealers.” (Al-Mumtahanah: 8) The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have dealt in trade with the Kuffar who signed peaceful treaties with him.” Focusing more on enhancing the economy of Muslim Ummah, the late Azharite scholar and the head of the Sunni Egyptian Institutions in Egypt, Dr. Fu`ad Mukhaymar, may Allah shower mercy on his soul, states the following: “No doubt that the brilliant and innovative minds of Muslims will never stop pulsating and inventing that which is new and beneficial. The weakness that has crept deep in the body of Muslim Ummah does not justify our backwardness. Rather, every committed Muslim ought to spare no pains performing any job he is entrusted with perfectly in order to help push forward the economic progress. Muslims should pay attention to the carefully-studied plans implemented nowadays by industrial countries who shower Muslim countries with the necessary tools for manufacturing cars, for examples, as well as other equipment in various branches. With this crafty scheme, they amass the money of Muslims, which is smoothly transferred into their countries and make their economy thrive at the expense of the economy in Muslim countries. The issue finally culminates in major economical, social and military dilemmas that become difficult to solve. That is why I call upon every Muslim and Muslimah to pay attention to such a vicious scheme. They should encourage national industries and be eager to consume nationally manufactured products. With this, all our economic problems will come to a halt, Islamic economy will thrive once again, and living standards will increase in Muslim countries. We can not ignore the fact that our current war is not only restricted to military actions but it includes economical aspects as well. Economy is the life-blood of modern life. Without strong and powerful economy, diseases will be rampant and poverty will spread more and more. It is incumbent upon us all to be aware of those schemes and co-operate with one another for the betterment of our future. Also, it the duty of Muslim governments to create job opportunities for people who used to work in the factories supervised by non-Muslims in Muslim’s homelands. We cannot ignore that those casual labors will be less paid, if this later alternative is taken into consideration, but the issue will be easy for them to accept if they consider it a form of Jihad that is exerted for the sake of their religion and homelands. Dr. As-Sayed Nuh , the prominent Azharite scholar, and professor of Hadith in Kuwait University, concludes: “We should differentiate between what we call Daruriyyat or necessary needs, and Tahsiniyyat or luxuries. If the products that Muslims tend to buy are from the second category (i.e. they are Tahsiniyyat), then it is better to forgo them irrespective of whether those products are American, European or even national products. However, if some Muslims find themselves weak and have strong desires to buy goods belonging to Tahsiniyyat category, then they should not buy from those who support the Jews and Zionists who occupy Palestine and kill the innocents, demolish houses, plunder money, violate the honor of people and profane the sanctity of sacred places in an attempt to bring the progress of the Muslim Ummah to a virtual standstill. It is well known that America plays the greater role in supporting those Jews and Zionists. Here, I can conclude that it is prohibited to buy the products manufactured by the Jews and Zionists as well as those who directly back them. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: “He who helps the enemy to kill his (fellow) Muslim brother with half a word (i.e. with the least form of support), will be brought before Allah on the Day of Resurrection with this phrase written between his eyes: “(He) has no space in Allah’s (encompassing) Mercy.” Finally, we should not underestimate the impact of economic boycott on the enemy. Some of us may think that the little goods boycotted may not affect the enemy’s strong economy. Our basic principle is not to lend any form of support to those who help kill Muslims. It’s worthy mentioning here that Egypt, for example, has played a greater role in boycotting the products of the enemy to the extent that the institutions boycotted were forced to shut its branches in Egypt and left the country without return.” If you have any further comments, please don’t hesitate to write back! May Allah guide you to the straight path, and guide you to that which pleases Him, Amen. Allah Almighty knows best ;============ Arsalan one of the sources of the original quote is listed on this UK website: http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-news-0078.html
11/12/02 at 00:41:42
bhaloo

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/12/02 at 01:18:06
[slm] Yeah I think we can *try* to do the best we can in the West, especially by boycotting the companies that are *known* and *open* supporters of Israel. But getting this information is difficult in itself. There's no list that has detailed company information and proven evidence for their support.  This site is good http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html  but should we boycott companies if Israel gives them an award? Should we boycott if they are building a factory in Israel?
11/12/02 at 01:30:44
jannah

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/12/02 at 01:25:03
[slm] Arsalan, this is for you, you can read the full fatawa there, but I have hilighted the portion I want you to read: http://www.boycottisrael.org/fatwa.htm ...... The time has come for the Islamic Ummah to say "NO" to America, "NO" to its companies, and "NO" to its goods, which swamp our markets. We are eating, drinking, wearing and riding whatever America produces. `Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "You have three enemies; your enemy, the friend of your enemy, and the enemy of your friend". The USA today is more than friends to our enemy; they would destroy themselves for Israel.   The world wide Muslim Ummah numbering 1.3 billion, could cause pain to the USA and its companies by boycotting them. This is an obligation of our religion, and the way of Allah. Every Muslim that buys "Israeli" or American goods, when there is an alternative from other countries is committing a haram act. They are clearly committing a major sin, which is a crime against Allah's law, which invokes punishment from Allah, and the contempt of the people. Our brothers in "Israel" and America are forced to deal with them and buy their products. Allah does not ask you to do what you can't do; only what you can.   Allah says: "Fear Allah as much as you are able." (Qur'an, 64:16). The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said: "If I order you to do something, do however much you can". Muslims in America must work with companies who are least hostile to Muslims, least allied to the Zionists. Boycott Zionist companies as much as you can.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/12/02 at 01:27:45
[slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=15#20 date=11/12/02 at 01:18:06][slm] Yeah I think we can *try* to do the best we can in the West, especially by boycotting the companies that are *known* and *open* supporters of Israel. But getting this information is difficult in itself. There's no list that has detailed company information and proven evidence for their support. If I could see that, I'd be the first one to "boycott" specific products. I think we should put this on a www wish list [/quote] Well how about: http://www.boycottisrael.org/ There list is under construction. :(

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/12/02 at 01:35:39
Modified the original message... hey bhaloo I think that AbuHamza knows about the fatwa, you don't have to cram it down his throat :) I think what he was saying is that Sh. Qaradawi gave a specific fatwa and we shouldn't use his fatwa to support a different fatwa or idea given by other people about something else (ie boycotting in the West)
11/12/02 at 01:37:07
jannah

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Abu_Hamza
11/12/02 at 02:10:51
[slm] [quote author=bhaloo link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=15#19 date=11/12/02 at 00:40:23]This fatawa is well known, the source I obtained it from was from the New York Times news,[/quote] I do not learn my deen from the New York Times.  And you know better than me how they like to misquote people, especially when it comes to Islamic workers.  It is no surprise that this is exactly what they did in this case as well (Read on ...) [quote]you can find it on the popular jamiat.org.za website,[/quote] I could not find it on the jamiat.org web site.  But I found it on the NY Times web site.  Here it is: http://www.mediareviewnet.com/Buying%20Locally%20Made%20US%20products.htm [quote]and it was on Sheikh Qaradawi's www.islamonline.net website[/quote] That's what the NY Times article claims.  What is actually on the IslamOnline web site is this: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=30402 As you can see, the NY Times article didn't post the whole thing (and we don't expect them to either).  Read the whole fatwa and it'll become *clear* to you who the audience is.  It is *not* the Muslims living in the West.  If you have trouble seeing it, I can point it out more specifically in my next post insha Allah. [quote](which is intended for US based audiences).[/quote] Au contraire, this is what IslamOnline says about itself: Audience: All people, Muslim and non-Muslim, without regard to geographic boundaries, religion, language, background, culture or gender.   (http://www.islamonline.net/english/aboutus.shtml) In other words, intended for mixed audiences. This means that not every article and fatwa that appears on the IslamOnline web site is written for Muslim audiences based in the West.  In fact, if you look closely to most of the fataawa that come to that web site about boycotts, they come from Muslims living in Muslim countries and not living in the West.  And thus the answer is giving accordingly. See here for examples: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/searchfatwaresult.asp?hTitle=&hKeyword=&hMufti=&hTopic=Boycott&Submit=Submit [quote]I'll post it in complete detail for you a similiar fatawa from Sheikh Qaradawi,[/quote] The second fatwa you posted is very different from what you took from the NY Times!  It is a lot more scholarly discourse, discussing (albeit briefly) the different situations that may be present.  It even goes into an usooli discourse of Daroorah and Tahseeniyyah, which is really the crux of the whole matter.   [quote]but to address your question specifically about U.S. Muslims, he said that we have to do as much as we can (paraphrasing him, and I'll post the complete fatawa for you, so we don't have another episode like the last post).[/quote] Actually the second fatwa that you posted is also not *specifically* written for Muslims based in the West.  It is for a *mixed* audience (as is apparent from the text).  A more speicific fatwa, which also appears on the same web site, is on this page: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=71255 I hope reading that should clarify to you the whole point of my first post.  Shaykh Qaradawi does not make blanket statements like "it's haram to buy American goods."  There are different circumstances and situations.  Even in the original fatwa whose portion was published in the NY Times, Shaykh Qaradawi qualified everything he said with this: "Every Muslim that buys “Israeli” or American goods, [i][color=red]when there is an alternative from other countries[/i][/color] is committing a haram act." Of course this phrase was skipped in the NY Times article!  (but it's there on the IOL link I cited earlier). Our situation in the US is very different from the situation of the overwhelming majority of the Muslim ummah (as that last link above discusses very emphatically).  It is dangerous to take fataawa that were written for a different audience and impose them upon us.  The essence of Islamic jurisprudence is to look at benefits and harms, situations and circumstances, and a plethora of other things. I would write more, but it's Ramadan.  I think it's better to be doing other things.  Forgive me for not being more detailed.  If you raise other concerns, insha Allah I'll be checking back to respond to those as well. Wallahu ta'ala a'lam. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah.
11/12/02 at 02:19:10
Abu_Hamza

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Barr
11/12/02 at 07:45:08
Assalamu'alaikum :-) [quote]Husnu Azzan means in simple terms- assuming the best[/quote] Just wanna add smt... hope it makes sense, inshaAllah. Dzon, or Zan or Dhan (or whatever way one spells it:)) on its own, has several shades of meanings. 1. Husnu Dzon (Husnu = best/good], ~ Dzon ==> to think, suppose, assume, imagine, guess, believe, regard as etc etc Eg. I know its late, but we must have husnu dzon (good thoughts/ assumptions) ... maybe, she is caught in the traffic jam. But dzon, can also have the meaning of doubt, suspicion, distrust, mistrust, misgiving. For example, 1. Let us not make decisions based on dzon (guessworks, suspicions), but guidance from Allah. 2. He's creating a lot of dzon with those rumours. Allahua'lam :-)
11/12/02 at 07:52:04
Barr

I don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maliha
11/12/02 at 08:31:45
[slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=15#17 date=11/11/02 at 15:26:33][slm] same difference? i think it's a big difference.. and it's the difference between dawah -getting our message across and anti-dawah - saying something correct but doing it in a shady way that turns everyone off. [/quote] What's is the big deal about the message? What really is so shady about it? The person was very creative in stating the *obvious*. Why are we so overly concerned with being PC. I mean there is a line between being concerned about dawah and being just cowered into silence/ or properly syntaxing our every word  for fear that someone will be *turned off* from Islam. Islam is about speaking out against Injustice, its about pointing out hypocrisies even in a tyrrants' face, it's about exposing the fallacy of the realities we seem so content to wrap ourselves in.... and I don't think being forthright in espousing our issues should be masqueraded for fear of other people's perception. Maliha  :-) [wlm]
11/12/02 at 08:32:17
Maliha

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Abd_al-Rashid
11/12/02 at 09:31:19
[slm] I agree with S. Maliha...I am sure Bush has received dawah plenty of times.  For example, read the following from [url=http://www.muslimthai.com/talibanonline/article.php?sid=954&mode=thread&order=0]Taliban Online:[/url] Bush courts Muslims at Ramadan WASHINGTON, Nov. 7 — Thirteen months after the U.S.-led military campaign began in Afghanistan and on the eve of a U.N. vote on a resolution to disarm Iraq, President Bush marked the Muslim holy month of Ramadan with Islamic leaders at the White House. Bush celebrated a traditional Iftaar meal Thursday to thank Muslim countries helping with the war on terrorism. “America treasures your friendship. America honors your faith,” Bush told 50 representatives from Muslim nations and 24 U.S. Muslim leaders. [Note by Taliban Online team: We are sure that any Muslim with a sense of iza (honor) would have told Bush exactly what he could do with his invitation. At least, Iran, Iraq and Libya had sufficient pride not to send representatives to this farce. Would these same Muslim "representatives" have accepted an iftari invitation from Mullah `Umar, or would he have been too much of a "terrorist" for them to sit with? ] Diplomats and community leaders were invited to the State Dining Room on Thursday evening. “We thank the many Muslim nations who stand with us against terror, nations that are often victims of terror themselves,” Bush said. In attendance for the meal marking Iftaar — the traditional breaking of the daylong fast — were ambassadors and diplomats from throughout the Muslim world, including a number of Middle Eastern nations. Iraq, Iran and Libya did not send representatives. With the war on terrorism continuing and Bush contemplating military action against Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, Bush went out of his way to make it clear that the effort was not directed at Islam and to seek the support of Muslims at home and abroad. “Our nation is waging a war on a radical network of terrorists, not on a religion and not on a civilization,” he said. OTHER OVERTURES The event is just one of several ways in which the Bush administration will mark Ramadan in an effort to reach out to Muslims in America and throughout the world. A senior administration official said that Bush planned to send individual messages to leaders of predominantly Islamic countries and that Secretary of State Colin Powell would hold his own Iftaar dinner at the State Department later this month. More than 30 U.S. diplomatic and consular posts worldwide were holding Ramadan activities. The White House also highlighted other efforts to reach out to Muslims, including a newly reissued Eid stamp that commemorates the two most important festivals on the Islamic calendar: Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha. The president’s official Ramadan greeting, released earlier this week, is being broadcast on Voice of America in eight languages. Bush has already sent his best wishes for “a blessed time” to 1 billion Muslims around the world preparing to celebrate Ramadan, calling their religion “a peace-loving faith.” The president — who frequently stresses that the war on terrorism launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States is not aimed at Muslims in general but only those who have “hijacked a great religion” — thanked Muslim nations for their support. “Muslims observe this month by renewing their dedication to caring for those in need, doing good deeds, and strengthening family and community ties,” Bush said in a statement. “These actions reflect many of the values that Muslims share with people of other faiths across our nation and around the world, including courage, compassion and service.” IRAQ DECISION Ramadan is the month of fasting when devout Muslims refrain from all food, drink or sex during daylight hours and focus on devotion and good works. Last year, Ramadan fell in the midst of the U.S. effort to destroy Saudi-born dissident Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida organization, who were blamed for the attacks, and to oust the Taliban, the Islamic extremists who hosted them in Afghanistan. [Note by Taliban Online team: Islamic Extremists being the Muslims who do not bow down to the White house] This year, it comes as Bush is trying to win the support of allies for disarming Iraq, by force if necessary. The United States circulated a new proposed resolution Wednesday in the U.N. Security Council that would give Iraq a “final opportunity” to meet demands to give up its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. Washington hopes to bring the issue to a vote Friday. Ramadan is the month of fasting when devout Muslims refrain from all food, drink or sex during daylight hours and focus on devotion and good works. The start and end of the month for most Islamic countries depends on the sighting of the new moon by the naked eye. It is the ninth and holiest month of the Islamic lunar calendar. Source: MSNBC [wlm]

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/12/02 at 09:49:40
[slm] [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=15#24 date=11/12/02 at 02:10:51] I could not find it on the jamiat.org web site.  But I found it on the NY Times web site.  Here it is: http://www.mediareviewnet.com/Buying%20Locally%20Made%20US%20products.htm That's what the NY Times article claims.  What is actually on the IslamOnline web site is this: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=30402 [/quote] The article you posted is from islamonline.net not the Ny Times, if you read the 1st link you posted it says Islamonline.net.  It contains the quote I used in my original post, the article is located on the islamonline server here: http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2002-07/03/article09.shtml The jamiat.org.za site link is here: http://www.jamiat.org.za/news/iboycot.html [quote] The second fatwa you posted is very different from what you took from the NY Times!  It is a lot more scholarly discourse, discussing (albeit briefly) the different situations that may be present.  It even goes into an usooli discourse of Daroorah and Tahseeniyyah, which is really the crux of the whole matter.   [/quote] Actually its not very different, the BASIC message is still the same, boycott America and Israel and what the 2nd fatawa  says SPECIFICALLY we in the U.S. need to do as much as possible.  This is the way I see it. [quote] apparent from the text).  A more speicific fatwa, which also appears on the same web site, is on this page: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=71255 I hope reading that should clarify to you the whole point of my first post. [/quote] No.  Your talking about a different scholar now, not Sheikh Qaradawi. [quote]  Shaykh Qaradawi does not make blanket statements like "it's haram to buy American goods."  There are different circumstances and situations.  Even in the original fatwa whose portion was published in the NY Times, Shaykh Qaradawi qualified everything he said with this: "Every Muslim that buys “Israeli” or American goods, [i][color=red]when there is an alternative from other countries[/i][/color] is committing a haram act." Of course this phrase was skipped in the NY Times article!  (but it's there on the IOL link I cited earlier). [/quote] Its not the Ny Times article, its an IOL article.  Sheikh Qaradawi's "blanket" statement that I posted in my original post was published on his IOL website and in at least one major American newspaper (NY times), and it was posted AFTER the date of the IOL link you cited earlier.  (btw: the other IOL link you cited came out a few months before the July 3rd one [the one that you think is only in the NY TIMES]) I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your assessment (except that the site is intended for all people, there is an Arabic version of the site, ill agree to that).  I don't see any conflict here with his statements, he was making a general statement and then in another fatawa he specifically addressed American Muslims.  Now if you still have issue with it, perhaps you should be taking it up with his people and those that run his IOL website, because that was one of the major stories of the day on July 3rd.  (you can go to the archives and see it there).  I know its important that we have to apply fatawas in the right situations and for the proper circumstances, and alhumdullilah you are aware of this, but i don't believe that this is the case here.
11/12/02 at 09:52:11
bhaloo

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Red
11/12/02 at 12:39:43
[slm], you guys i know, i was just thinking about this hadeeth i read. I know that you are not supposed to speculate things like this but it is still interesting, check it out: Signs of the Day of Judgement The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari & Muslim) http://etori.tripod.com/dajjalsystem/judgement.html The Euphreates is an area around Iraq. Do you guys think that maybe the oil is some sort of treasure nobody should get? I am not saying that this mean the Day of Judgement is coming in the next 10 days, or that Iraq's oil is what this hadith is talking about because so many signs have happened and many more to come, and nobody knows when the day of judement is coming not even the Prophet Muhammad  [saw],  but does this whole Iraq business kind of connect to this idea of the Hadith?   wasalam, red Allah knows best.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/12/02 at 14:25:54
[slm] I understand Maliha's point about forcing ourselves to be overly PC and compromising our deen, but since this is not a situation like that I don't think that point applies.  The message is anti-dawah - ie i read it and found it disturbing, it may be creative but it's also turning a lot of people off from islam because they cannot understand the message that is given in that post because of it's form. As bhaloo said Bush is the most popular president in recent history, when nonMuslims read this they see bush is trying to be nice and do something for the Muslims and they're throwing it back in his face and making up some lies about him ie that he said things like this: [quote]We work to subvert Islam and kill Muslims daily[/quote] [quote]The USA remains committed to oppression, tyranny and colonialism.[/quote] [quote]to all the others, I extend my deepest enmity.[/quote] etc etc and i don't even want to know what bhaloo removed... so  you're trying to tell me that's not anti-dawah???! that when the average American reads that they will actually understand the points being mentioned when you're insulting their president, their country and their people? Now who has husna-dhann? We seriously do not know how to do dawah in this country. We can see that we are failing because this is our biggest problem. We can't seem to balance "saying what is right" with "saying it in the right way". We are alienating the American people because of stupid posts like this. And you can't tell me that saying whatever you want, whenever you want, doing whatever you want, whenever you want is the sunnah because it is not. The sunnah is full of hundreds of examples of how the prophet [saw] weighed the harm versus the benefit. When Umar wanted to have the hypocrities killed, he said "No, I don't want the people to say that Muhammad kills his companions". When Jafar was explaining Islam to the Negus he didn't say "That's right we don't believe in your trinity crap", he talked about the holiness of Mary etc. When the prophet [saw] made dawah to people he didn't insult them first! When different people asked him the SAME question he gave DIFFERENT answers? WHY because he knew the people and he knew the best way to make dawah to them. When the companions did not want the Treaty of Hudaybiya because they felt they were [i]compromising too much[/i] the prophet [saw] weighed the benefits and signed it. In the next years, the Muslim population doubled! More Muslims came to Islam in those years then all of the years previous! We need to go back to the sunnah and study his [saw] example instead of thinking we are doing good when we're actually doing harm.  Is it compromising our deen to present certain things before others? This proves no. Now the sad fact is that many many Muslims really believe that saying the "truth" - and it doesn't matter how, is more important than choosing your words, your approach and your priorities. I mean I've seen people say things on NATIONAL television subhanallah that if I really thought what they were saying was true I wouldn't be Muslim today. Subhanallah I think the people who don't know how to do dawah should just take a back seat because they're doing more harm than good. They need to stop being arrogant, believing what they're doing is good and right and a service to the ummah. They need to go to real scholars and ask them the proper way to make dawah. Anyway this is a real issue close to my heart. This is the path I take on this website, and the vision that defines the rules on this message board.
11/12/02 at 22:48:04
jannah

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
amatullah
11/12/02 at 23:00:05
[wlm] One thing i just wanted to add to this thread, is i find it weird that the American non-muslim general public would gladly take any political satire and sarcasm on ony of the presidents or politicians in general as they have made popular in many tv programs, but it is never accepted when it comes from American Muslims. In our case it is seen immediately as insulting or anti-american or extremists views, or whatever. It just goes to show their true feelings for us, we are never accepted as "one of them" unless we take on what they do fully. If non Muslims do it, it has some truth to it, it's funny, etc. but we are under the critical microscope regardless.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
se7en
11/13/02 at 00:57:45
as salaamu alaykum, I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that we should work to stop those who commit injustice by any means we have available, including economically.  I think the concern is with the fatwa that was originally quoted. [quote] American goods, exactly like ‘Israeli’ goods, are forbidden. [/quote] I don't know how anyone who lives in the United States, and thinks that this fatwa is applicable to them, can continue living here.  How is a person supposed to live in the United States if they are not allowed to purchase *anything*, as well as not being allowed to work (which aids in the production of American-made goods)? If Sh. Qardawi truly meant that consuming American goods is haraam for *every* Muslim, even those living in the United States, it follows that he has made it haraam for Muslims to reside in the United States (as it is *impossible* to live here without doing so.)   I don't know about you guys, but the day Sh. Qardawi says it's haraam to live in the United States, I ain't gonna be here anymore :P  And I *don't* think that's what Sh. Qardawi said or meant to say in this instance.   And again, just to clarify, we are not talking about boycotting goods from companies that are clearly pro-israeli, or pro-war on iraq, etc.  We are talking about what *seems* to be a complete ban on ANY product coming from the United States, made forbidden for EVERY Muslim, which is obviously problematic for those of us living here. w'Allahu a'lam. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah
11/13/02 at 11:05:34
se7en

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Maliha
11/13/02 at 07:39:04
[slm] One thing we seem to forget is that there are *many* Muslim Americans...so saying we are dissing "their" country, "their" president, etc..doesn't make sense. Because whether we like it or not he is "our" president and it is "our country" too. And like Amatullah pointed out, this makes for a good political satire piece, and its funny and creative....The author wanted to  make a point, and he/she made it well. And if people are going to be turned away from something that is true, then did they want the truth to begin with? The person didn't make up a bunch of lies. America *does* support oppression and tyranny, aiding countries such as Israel results in the killing of Muslims and subversion daily from Afghanistan to Palestine to Iraq...We are lying to ourselves if we even think for a minute that this country policies are directed to aiding Muslims. I agree that we should use hikmah in dawah, but at the same time I don't see why we should be apologetic and be thankful for every scrap that lady liberty throws our way...."Bush is trying to do something nice for Muslims"..yeah, empty rhetoric while his actions echo a lot louder than any empty words could ever articulate. Wallahu A3lam. Maliha  :-) [wlm]

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Asim
11/13/02 at 12:18:20
Assalaamu alaikum, I really shouldn't be here....have a final exam to make that is scheduled 12 hours from now... but... couldn't resist. There were statements made that our dawah is not effective, that we turn too many ppl off Islam, etc. But what 'dawah' did we do to gain the conversion since sept. 11?? It wasn't the make-committees-for-democracy or muslim-american-alliances or friends-of-bush or muslims-are-your-typical-american type! It was forthright generation of curiousity in ppl and forcing them to read from the sources and find out for themselves what Islam is. So maybe we should reevaluate our dawah strategies. Instead of being just-your-average American who follows their 'system' for everything we should be forthright in putting the truth out, including speaking out against the *system* itself that is unIslamic rather *using* it to *try* to make a difference. The Truth is the best dawah.  Of course, this doesn't mean that we break the laws of the land, or be abusive, uncourteous etc. We shouldn't be conformists if conforming means going against Islam. Just my 2 rupees worth... Wasalaam.
11/13/02 at 12:27:12
Asim

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
BroHanif
11/13/02 at 17:56:59
Salaams, I think there needs to be a balance to what Mr Blair and Bush always seems to speak. I remember last year at the fall of Sept 11 these two leaders were there with the Quran saying Islam is a religion of peace and what not. Fine we know its a religion of peace, but please don't undermine the Muslims by going on a pulpit, opening the Quran and quoting verses from it. One, they are not qualified to do so, in fact many Muslims are not qualifed to simply open the Quran and give their own tafsir of ayats. Secondly, Bush and Blair don't hold all the answers to our problems. We can't say eveything going wrong for us is due to that man in the Whitehouse, when its simply not. Right now we have no clear cut leaders, we have few people that have a vision or a way forward to how to unite this ummah. Islam holds all the answers, we were once masters in science, maths and technology. Yet right now look at our brothers and sisters in Mid East and Asia the literacy and numeracy rate is so low that its pathetic to mention.  Seriously, we need to get out of this lame view that we can't do anything, we are the strongest yet we need to rekindle our hearts, our energies and our minds. Third, we need to have compassion for others as well, how can we be compassionate when we are primarily concerned about only human rights issues affecting the Muslims.  We need to show mercy and compassion for others when they are being inflicted in pain. Lastly, an area which we all need to work on is dawah and thats just not for the Muslims but its to invite the non Muslims as well. The recent programmes at the mosque show me Islam is a religion for those who are currently Muslims, yet the average Joe(non muslim) in the street gets his info from CNN and websites like this. Do you think this is justice ?? I don't. salaams Hanif
NS
11/13/02 at 18:02:33
BroHanif

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Halima
11/14/02 at 05:59:39
Reading between the lines is extremely important. There is a difference between "lip service" and "actions".  One thing is said and the action is contrary to what has been said. The tafseer has captured it entirely. Muslims do not need someone to praise their religion to appease them.  We aready know the goodness of Islam.   But the Arab World has let Muslims and Islam DOWN!  It is a fact known across the rest of the Muslim world.     Jihad is not necessarily war.  Jihad can be implemented in different ways.  Making a stand for instance as one UMMA across the globe.  UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.  The Arab World is completely divided with each of one of them safegaurding their own interests. Wasalaam. Halima

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
amatullah
11/14/02 at 11:04:07
[slm] sister Hania I don't think that a way to break these down is to add to it. I think muslims have let muslims down. It's not just the arab world. Most of the people who went to fight for sheeshan, falasteen, train in afghanistan, etc are arabs. most of the guatanamonbay prisoners may Allah release them are arabs. I can think of many instances where non arab muslim countries who helped non muslims against a muslim country. We should not divide ourselves further by cutting up the ummah geographically and placing blame on only parts of it.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
oneway2paradise
11/14/02 at 12:10:09
[slm] [quote author=amatullah link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=30#31 date=11/12/02 at 23:00:05] [wlm] One thing i just wanted to add to this thread, is i find it weird that the American non-muslim general public would gladly take any political satire and sarcasm on ony of the presidents or politicians in general as they have made popular in many tv programs, but it is never accepted when it comes from American Muslims. [/quote] I think everyone took it too seriously.  I found it to be an amusing satire.  I am as American as it gets and even before being Muslim, I never respected or trusted the government.  Not to mention, all of the comedians and TV shows like Saturday Night Live insult the President regularly.  The President can say whatever he wants but actions speak louder than words.  You know the famous parental quote,"Do what I say not what I do?"  But what really happens?  The American people know what a shady business the government is.  Since the Revolutionary War times, it has been feeding us propaganda to help disguise its agenda.  If they don't know this, then they are under the spell.  I figured this all out at a very young age.  Don't worry about what people will think especially when it was all for fun to begin with.  As a side note, there is a war against Muslims going on right now and they are humiliating us daily. [slm] Amber :-)  :-*

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
Kathy
11/15/02 at 08:45:29
[slm] [quote]Not to mention, all of the comedians and TV shows like Saturday Night Live insult the President regularly.[/quote] However this is not a commedy site.... it is a dawah site, one that is recommended by many Muslims to possible reverts.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
The_Reciter
11/15/02 at 12:00:53
[quote author=Barr link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=0#1 date=11/08/02 at 10:17:07]Assalamu'alaikum :-) Why is there a need to decipher all of these? Why is there a need to demonise? Why are we adding words that others did not say? :([/quote]  [slm]  ;-) ;-) [] [] [] :'( ??? [] I agree with you sister...This was not correct to put here on Jannah board specialy from mods...  [wlm] [] [] :'( :'( :'( :'( :P [] ??? :o :o
11/15/02 at 12:01:27
The_Reciter

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/16/02 at 02:34:39
I don't think it directly breaks any of the rules in the constitution. It's kind of on that line and in my opinion on the wrong side but I think it was interesting that we were able to have a discussion on it.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
The_Reciter
11/16/02 at 19:33:37
[quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=30#41 date=11/16/02 at 02:34:39]I don't think it directly breaks any of the rules in the constitution..[/quote] [slm] :'( :'( [] [] [] []. Sister I did not say this breaks the rules. This is my own comment that was not correct. Specialy the Moderator or admin has more to care what they put here...I dont defent Bush here, he says or not... Even we say Islam is peace... :-[ :-[ [] [] [] [] [] ::) ::) ??? :o :o [] []

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
UmmWafi
11/17/02 at 08:52:44
[slm] Firstly, before I say anything on this matter I shall recite my Istighfar first and I would like my bros and sis to join me.  Astarghfirullah. Secondly, I wonder, amongst the billions of Muslims in the world, how many of us don't actually know the Bush Administration's agendas ?  How many of us blissfully think that the Bush Administration is genuinely and sincerely acting out of the pure intention of getting rid of terrorists, all terrorists ? How many of us actually supports his Administrations call to inflict more pain and suffering on Muslims, anywhere and everywhere ? Was there any need for anyone, especially a Muslim, to have written in the manner and style as the above (the original post I meant) ? Hmmm...there is a fine line between verification and vilification it seems.  In da'wah, sometimes silence speaks volumes.  In the original speech, Bush made a Ramadhan wish, sincere or not.  If we want to educate the public as to his actions as opposed to his words then we can always make a chronology of his campaigns, actions and words that run counter.  That would make the comparison more startling I think.  Somehow rewriting someone's words in that harsh manner leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  Then again, it could just be me being me. In reading Sirah Nabawiyyah, what impresses me most is how the Prophet  [saw] ALWAYS use kindness and gentleness to persuade. Wallahu'alam bissawab.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/18/02 at 02:20:35
[slm] [quote author=UmmWafi link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=30#43 date=11/17/02 at 08:52:44] Secondly, I wonder, amongst the billions of Muslims in the world, how many of us don't actually know the Bush Administration's agendas ?  How many of us blissfully think that the Bush Administration is genuinely and sincerely acting out of the pure intention of getting rid of terrorists, all terrorists ? How many of us actually supports his Administrations call to inflict more pain and suffering on Muslims, anywhere and everywhere ? [/quote] Seems like they would be obvious answers but I really wonder when I see some of the comments from these people that are supposedly the leadership of the Muslim community in America.  Statements such as, congratulating Bush on his Anti-Terror policy, the bombings of the Afghani people, laying blame to a group of Muslims and certain groups, etc.    We need to understand that America is at war with Muslims and Islam, they have launched a crusade.   Innocent children and women are being killed daily in Palestine, Afghanistan, and Iraq by America (directly and in some cases indirectly).  Accourding to Soundvision nearly half of all Muslims in America have been harassed  after Sept. 11(the number they said was 39%).  I personally was visited by the FBI last year and they asked me some questions, so count me in as part of that statistic. The question arises what can we do as a minority group living in a country that is at war with Muslims?    What have the scholars said in this regard? Also, does anyone have any examples of how the enemies of Islam were treated during the time of war?  (note: im not referring to the case of where mercy was shown after some battle/war and the Prophet (SAW) forgave those people, but rather during the campaign/war.)

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/18/02 at 12:05:43
[quote]does anyone have any examples of how the enemies of Islam were treated during the time of war? [/quote] Which scholars have said we are at war with the US? And what have they advised the Muslims of the US?

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
UmmWafi
11/19/02 at 10:49:32
I am sorry if I have misunderstood the whole issue completely.  However, upon reading the original post, my assessment of the whole issue is that it is the question of adab.  Especially, the adab of a Muslim in the holy month of Ramadhan. May Allah forgive my sins. Wassalam.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/20/02 at 01:51:02
[slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=45#45 date=11/18/02 at 12:05:43] Which scholars have said we are at war with the US? And what have they advised the Muslims of the US?[/quote] Read the fatawa from Sheikh Qaradawi that I posted earlier from that boycott.org site, he talks about it and how we must boycott them (and those in America and Israel should do as much as possible, both articles I posted earlier were from the same source, islamonline). I came across something the sheikh said last year, Sept. 16th, on the show Islamic Law and Life: a viewer from Saudi Arabia called in and asked Sheikh Qaradwi what the proper Muslim response would be if Afghanistan were attacked and the clerics of Afghanistan called for jihad. Qaradawi compared the situation to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and asked rhetorically, "When the enemy is the Americans, is that a different situation? No, the situation is not different, because neither the Russians nor the Americans are important to us. What is important to us is resisting the aggressor, we help the oppressed until they are victorious over the oppressors." There was a khutbah someone attended some months back and sheikh Qaradawi mentioned some important points that I hilighted below, but you can read the full khutbah here: http://www.mediareviewnet.com/SHEIKH%20QARADAWIs%20lecture.htm He gave examples of Al-Muhalhal who was known for his love of pleasure and entertainment which he later abandoned after the killing of his brother Kulaib living for the sole purpose of avenging his death, and the example of 'Amr Ibn Kulthoom whose mother refused to serve the King 'Amr Ibn Hind who composed his famous poem in which he said: A word for which a battle begins.. and the example of 'Antara. He continued to the example of Badr, where the Arabs pledged not to mourn until they get revenge (for the 70 killed) until the battle of Uhud. And under Islam, when 'Umar Ibn al 'Azeez heard that a Muslim was insulted in the land of the Romans, he sent a message to the king of the Romans that: I heard that a Muslim has been insulted, so when you receive my letter, release him or else I will invade you with an army with its beginning in your land and its end here- for one man who was insulted! And we all know about the woman who was slapped in the land of the Romans and who cried her historical cry: O Mu'tasim! Every Muslim at that time felt that he or she had an identity and dignity and could seek the protection of the Caliph Al-Mu'tasim who heard her cry and said: Here I am, O sister, and sent his soldiers to attack the Romans in the famous battle of 'Amouriyyah, eternalized in Abu Tammam's famous poem. ;============================================ Subhan'Allah, one man is insulted in a non-Muslim land and that is a cause for the Muslim army to go to war.  Look at that brotherhood, and compare it to the sorry state of affairs we are in today.  How many Muslims are being slaughtered daily by America, Israel, Russia.  The numbers are staggering.  And what do most of us do?  We ignore it and say its not my problem, its someone else's problem, its the Palestinian problem, or the Gujarrat Problem, the Afghanistan problem, or the Chechneyan problem.  No my brothers and sisters, it is a Muslim problem, it is our problem.  The Muslim ummah is like a body, when one part of it is hurt, the rest of it aches.   I conclude with Sheikh Qaradawi's words from that khutbah: The Ummah must know its value and its duty in this stage. And Allah will hold it accountable for what is happening: 300 million Arabs, and one billion Muslims- how can this Ummah be humiliated in its own lands and be led against its wishes? With what logic, and what pretext? The ties of Islam and Arab brotherhood and the calls of Truth and conscience all appeal to us to stand by our brothers in Palestine and Iraq, and all the oppressed everywhere, The Arab poet rightly said: Either you be truly my brother so that I know where you stand or else abandon me and take me as an enemy so that I protect my self from you and you from me.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
BroHanif
11/20/02 at 18:50:38
Salaams, [quote]The question arises what can we do as a minority group living in a country that is at war with Muslims?    [/quote] I think one action may be emigrate to a country which is more in line with deen, perhaps Somalia, Yemen or even the Antartic. Whereever you go, pacts are being made with the so called leaders to conduct operations of war on innocents be they Muslims or not. I'm afriad I don't see much of a way out, we can make dua and have patience. However, turn the question round, pick 100 random Muslims from the street, look at them, talk to them and you'll soon find out how badly fragmented the Ummah is. If you don't believe me perform the hajj this year, you'll see people from all walks of life and if you want to see the situation of the Ummah you'll see it there. So how can we have good role models, or leaders when we oursleves are corrupt and full of disease. How can the help of Allah come ?. [quote]And Allah will hold it accountable for what is happening: 300 million Arabs, and one billion Muslims- how can this Ummah be humiliated in its own lands and be led against its wishes? With what logic, and what pretext? [/quote] Yeah but we forgot the main thing aout Jihad. Right now we have love for the world and dislike for death. We long to our bank balance grow and we think Allah does not exist. Do you want more reasons for our failure. May Allah make us die on deen. Hanif

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
UmmWafi
11/20/02 at 22:34:36
[slm] Ok, I know I am really putting my credibility as a Muslim on the line here but I just have to say this. NOBODY who wrote in this thread is against jihad.  NOBODY who wrote in this thread thinks we should just let sleeping dogs lie.  NOBODY who wrote in this thread feels Muslims should be apathetic and pathetic.  BUT some of us have differing ideas on the manifestation of that jihad. The whole thread started with a post where a Muslim made a tafsir of Bush's Ramadhan wishes.  Fine.  The whole question is not whether jihad should be launched but how the jihad should be undertaken. U quoted an incident where a Muslim was insulted in a foreign land and a war was prepared for that slight.  In the case of the Muslim brotherhood, that is indeed very amazing.  However, in the case of the wisom of that particular action, it remains to be seen.  Maybe during that era, it is justified and fair, but who is to say it will work here and now ? Plus, what did the Prophet SAW say abt the whole incident, if he could ?  Also, in this example, an insult was given.  In the case of the tafsir, a wish was made.  See the difference ? I think, living in Southeast Asia, I have never ever dismissed the Palestinian and Afghanistan issues as their problems and not mine.  Despite being handicapped militarily, I have tried my very best to play my part as a Muslim sister.  I have boycotted Israeli products, work closely with some associates in writing letters to American media etc.  I know it is not the same as holding an M-16 and placing myself in Ramallah, still who in this world has the right to judge me ? No one.   Bros and sisters, this is the time where the kuffars are launching all kinds of fitnahs against Islam.  We are in a state where Islam is a by-word for extremism, terrorism and all kinds of -isms.  I just feel that to take a person's Ramadhan wish, regardless of who that person is, and then turn it into character assassination, that is how I see it, is not helping our cause. And as we are all very much aware, intention alone does not justify the actions. Wallahualam. Al-Ghazzali, in his excellent treatise on ethics, emphasised so greatly the importance of hikmah in all that we do so I ask Allah SWT to grant us the hikmah to be good Muslims who can uplift the Ummah, Amin. Wassalam.

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
bhaloo
11/22/02 at 09:30:51
[slm] [quote author=UmmWafi link=board=ummah;num=1036759830;start=45#49 date=11/20/02 at 22:34:36] NOBODY who wrote in this thread is against jihad. [/quote] Actually I believe 1 person in the thread is against jihad, and insha'Allah everyone else isn't. [quote] U quoted an incident where a Muslim was insulted in a foreign land and a war was prepared for that slight.  In the case of the Muslim brotherhood, that is indeed very amazing.  However, in the case of the wisom of that particular action, it remains to be seen.  Maybe during that era, it is justified and fair, but who is to say it will work here and now ? Plus, what did the Prophet SAW say abt the whole incident, if he could ?  Also, in this example, an insult was given.  In the case of the tafsir, a wish was made.  See the difference ? [/quote] I think you have misunderstood the above post.  It didn't really have anything to do with the original post, it was only addressing Jannah's question, that question being are we in a state of war.  Interestingly enough someone else asked me that as well and didn't feel that we were in a state of war.  So it was a response to that and yes maybe I did go off on a little tangent citing some examples of brotherhood and how Muslims through history were willing to be there for each other. I understand why Jannah asked her question, it was because I had sent her the following message, and hilighted point #8 for her (i sent you the same message a few days later). Question: What is our stance concerning the slaughter of Muslims in Palestine and other parts of the world that is happening right now, where houses are being destroyed, farms are being wrecked, children are being killed, the wounded are being detained in the streets, houses are being bombarded and people are being prevented by the Jews and others, from buying the food and drink that they need? What can I, as a Muslim, do? Answer: Praise be to Allaah.   1-     You have to make du’aa’, and recite du’a’ al-qunoot in your salaah (prayer). 2-     Collect charity and send it through trustworthy channels. 3-     Support the weak and oppressed in all ways, including the media and the internet. 4-     Get scholars, daa’iyahs, khateebs and writers to explain the oppression that is happening and the negligence on the part of the ummah, and to mobilize the ummah to defend the holy places. 5-     Check on one’s own intentions with regard to fighting for the sake of Allaah, and see whether he is applying the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Whoever dies without having fought for the sake of Allaah or having had the intention of doing so, has died following one of the branches of hypocrisy.” (Saheeh Muslim, no. 3533) 6-     Pursuing all the means of building up material and moral strength, in preparation for meeting the enemy (in battle). 7-     Reminding oneself and others of the virtues of martyrdom for the sake of Allaah and studying the rulings on jihad, and not having an attachment to this world. 8-     Doing as much damage as possible to the enemies who are in a state of war with us, by boycotting their products, attacking them verbally and in writing to humiliate and annoy them, and to point out their kufr and shirk, and their insults to Allaah, His Messenger and the believers, publishing as much as possible in the audio-visual and print media about this serious topic whilst also connecting that to Islamic belief and the words of Allaah and His Messenger, We ask Allaah the Exalted and All-Powerful to support His religion and cause His word to prevail. Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) [quote]  I just feel that to take a person's Ramadhan wish, regardless of who that person is, and then turn it into character assassination, that is how I see it, is not helping our cause. And as we are all very much aware, intention alone does not justify the actions. [/quote] I disagree.  I know it is a great concern for the Bush administration when there is all this hatred for them in the Islamic world.  Its caused them to spend millions of dollars towards doing their own propaganda to counter what's out there.  Perhaps it saves the lives of some Muslims from being attacked militairly. I feel we are in a state of war, America invaded Afghanistan, they are giving economic and military support to the "Israelis" against the Muslims, they are starving to death the Muslims in Iraq, and are attacking our religion and our Prophet (SAW) in this country.    Many scholars are saying that it is fard ain (an individual obligation) for the whole  Muslim world to defend the Muslims in Palestine.   And I think during times of war things are a little different then when we are not engaged in battle.  I certainly would welcome the view of scholars and what they said during times of war.    As an example remember Islam allows deception in war (im not saying thats what happened here in the original post) in order to attain victory. Al-Nawawi said: “The scholars are agreed that it is permissible to deceive the kuffaar in war in any way possible, except if that would mean breaking the terms of a treaty or trust, in which case it is not permitted. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “War is deceit.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3029; Muslim, '58').    There was something I read the other day on Islam-online (a very popular Islamic site, much of what Sheikh Qaradawi has said is there along with other shaikhs) that kinda surprised me: http://www.islamonline.net/completesearch/english/mDetails.asp?hMagazineID=38849&hTitle=faysal ..... Another scholar Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi was asked about the targeting of “civilians” in Israel whether it could be considered a legitimate form of Jihad. “In fact, there is no war between Muslims and every Jew in this world; rather, our war is against those who have usurped our Holy Land and try to establish a homeland for themselves in a place that does not belong to them. In this sense, we do not kill any Jew who resides in any part of the world other than Palestine. “As for those Jews living inside our occupied lands and carry the Israeli nationality, they participate in the aggression against our fellow Palestinians. Our target should be military personnel and not civilians when Israel does not attack our civilians. But as we can see nowadays, they violate the lives of all Palestinians, civilians or non-civilians. “In their aggression, they make no distinction between a baby or an elderly person. They have also committed many massacres. Qaana, Hebron and Dir Yaseen are a few examples and evidences of Israeli atrocities. According to the Qur’an, we are to stick by a principle that reads: “If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted.” (An-Nahl: 126) We are to retaliate in the same way we are attacked. “Hence, we have no other choice but to treat them like with like to deter them. Hence, we are allowed to kill every Israeli until they stop this mass killing and paganism. It is only then that we can stop our attacks on the Israeli civilians but our Jihad against the military will never stop till they leave our land and give us back our holy site, Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa.”   I thought that was interesting.  Admittedly my bookcase has very little on jihad or the proper conduct during war.  I think in times such as we see now it would be good to investigate and study this.
11/22/02 at 09:36:59
bhaloo

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
ltcorpest2
11/22/02 at 19:18:16
Posted by: bhaloo Posted on: Today at 9:30am on Nov 20th, 2002, 10:34pm, UmmWafi wrote:NOBODY who wrote in this thread is against jihad.   Actually I believe 1 person in the thread is against jihad, and insha'Allah everyone else isn boy there is a lot of posts on here.  Bhaloo  I had to read every one of these again to see who this 1 person is.  maybe you can give us a hint?

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
se7en
11/23/02 at 01:26:18
as salaamu alaykum, How can anyone say they are at war with the United States, say that it is prohibited to consume American products, when they are *here*, living well, providing for their family with a job that helps support the American industrial or technological machine? Again, if you really feel this way, perform hijra and move somewhere else.  You are doing yourself harm by living in a way that you deem haram, and you are doing harm to those of us who do not feel it is prohibited to live here, and who feel that their purpose here is somewhat more substantial than scoffing and insulting non-Muslims and those in power. I will not take seriously any such comments from any man or woman who resides in a majority non-Muslim western country, because it is a clear example of saying one thing and doing another.
11/23/02 at 01:31:54
se7en

Re: Tafseer Of President Bush's Message For Ramada
jannah
11/23/02 at 13:41:38
[slm] Arrightey then, i think we've said all we can say about this topic. Let's move on to other topics inshaAllah.
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