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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| elite_ansaar |
| 11/16/02 at 05:14:20 |
| Asalam Alaykum I need some advice on a very serious and grave issue. I know of a brother who is in the US Marines reserve list, and he has been called up to go to Iraq for the upcoming invasion. He does not know what to do. If he does not go, he will be imprisoned, and seen as a traitor to his country. But if he goes, he will be taking part in the slaughter of many thousands of muslims in an unjust war. As a muslim what stance should he take? Should he go, and commit a major Haram, or should he stand his ground, and be prepared to go to prison? Maasalaama |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| Fatimah |
| 11/16/02 at 07:42:19 |
| [slm] I found this: Question: I work in the army of a non-Muslim state, and there are wars between them and the Muslims. What is the ruling if they send me with a division of this army to wage war against the Muslims? As a Muslim, my feelings are that I never want to fight against Muslims in any war. What should I do? What is the ruling if I go…? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. If you are sent to wage war against the Muslims, then it is not permissible for you to take part at all. Helping the kaafirs against the Muslims is a form of major kufr which puts one beyond the pale of Islam. Allaah says concerning one who supports the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning): “And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’, i.e., friends), then surely, he is one of them”[al-Maa’idah 5:51] With regard to how you may get out of this situation, and what excuse you can give to get out of this dilemma if it happens, we ask Allaah to help you, and we suggest that you consult some Muslims who have relevant knowledge or experience. We want to emphasize to you the necessity of finding other employment and of leaving service in the army of the kaafirs, because that implies helping them, strengthening them and increasing the numbers of their fighters and supporters – unless your work can bring some benefits to the Muslims, such as giving information and secrets of the kaafirs to the Muslims so as to help the Muslims, or if your work is purely da’wah, such as giving khutbahs and leading prayers for the Muslims in the kaafir army whilst also advising them to avoid any work that will strengthen the kaafirs. We ask Allaah to keep you safe from temptation and to give you a good end in this world and in the Hereafter. Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| jannah |
| 11/16/02 at 13:59:36 |
| Can't he be a conscientious objector? |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| Caraj |
| 11/16/02 at 16:26:37 |
| My husband is in the navy would you like me to email him and ask if there is a way to get out of a certain assignment if it conflicts with religious beliefs? I will if you would like me to? |
| If sRe: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| Caraj |
| 11/16/02 at 16:39:35 |
| I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of emailing my hubby the following email. I will copy and post his reply as soon as I get it. I hope we can find a better way for this brother so he does not have to defy his religion nor his military duty. Salaam, Cara The wording is such as I have to be careful what I email him. He is out to sea. ********************************************************** If someone in one of the services is Muslim and is being ordered to participate in anything to do with the current thing going on (if you know what I mean trying not to say something that will be frowned upon) If it conflicts with their religious beliefs and they don't want to go UA or go to the brig for refusing an order. What steps can they take to legally do it in a manor in the military where they won't get in trouble. What is the conscientious objector thing and how does that work. Need this info for someone on a web site, Thanks Babe, Cara |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| BroHanif |
| 11/17/02 at 18:41:08 |
| Salaams, [quote]Helping the kaafirs against the Muslims is a form of major kufr which puts one beyond the pale of Islam. [/quote] We take verses of the Quran when it suits us. For example, during the time of Gulf War it was alright for 50,000 UN non muslim soldiers to descend upon the noble land to practice the religion of desires. It was okay for them to fornicate, drink alcohol, butcher Muslims, eye Muslim women and do whatever the hell they want. So why didn't the verses of the Quran apply then ??? What a load of hypocrisy, the reason that this war in terror began in the first place was due to Saudia's invitation to the US Army. The Saudia army was to weak to do anything and they thought that 1 billion muslims around the world would not come to defend the noble haramain. What a load of pap. If OBL had his way the mujahideen would have come to Afghanistan and who knows this war may not have happened, yet too late. When we rely on the God of Washington this is what happens, when we rely upon Allah, no one can break us. We as Muslims should have helped the Iraqis and Kurds when they were being gassed, where we then ???? Where is the Muslim Army when our brothers/sisters are getting abused in so called Israel ???. Yet how sad the people of Baghdad may be disshing out smiles and sweets to the US Marines when they are liberated from Saddam the despot, isn't it dissapointing that we Muslims at one time fought wars just so people could have their rights yet today the Muslims are sleeping while human rights get violated. Salaams Hanif |
| NS |
| 11/17/02 at 18:42:45 |
| BroHanif |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| Chris |
| 11/23/02 at 16:26:35 |
| Hi, BroHanif, its been a while. I'm quite sure that Nither saddan hussain or the saudi royal family count as 'muslim' in any sense of the word. Now, I could be wrong, but is not the duty of a muslim not to serve an non-muslim leader, which is what the whole question is about? Now, if the people of those counties contine to follow those leaders, they cannot be muslims themselves, therefore there should be no conflict of interest. Unlike Saddam, the west does not have a habit of bombing innocents if it can be avoided. hopefully, there will be no innocents hurt at all. If there is a possibility of that, your friend will be there to refuse the order and therefore do God a great service. Chris PS. I believe that the SAS should be sent in and kill SH. Comments anyone? |
| 11/23/02 at 16:28:37 |
| Chris |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| jannah |
| 11/24/02 at 00:45:58 |
| [quote author=Chris link=board=madrasa;num=1037441661;start=0#6 date=11/23/02 at 16:26:35] Now, if the people of those counties contine to follow those leaders, they cannot be muslims themselves, therefore there should be no conflict of interest. [/quote] I think you're assuming those people have a choice when they don't. If you oppose Saddam you're jailed and tortured and killed. That's what we've seen in the past. In Saudi from what I've heard, most of those that oppose the govt are jailed. [quote] Unlike Saddam, the west does not have a habit of bombing innocents if it can be avoided. [/quote] That's interesting you say that, because evidence shows otherwise. Remember Sudan and the "chemical weapons factory" they bombed and then it was shown that they KNEW it was a medicine factory and had bombed it any way. Remember Iraq where the bombs and aftermath have killed thousands of innocent CHILDREN let alone adults. Remember Afghanistan ... etc etc |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| se7en |
| 11/24/02 at 01:32:16 |
[quote]Unlike Saddam, the west does not have a habit of bombing innocents if it can be avoided. [/quote] Please read this article [url=http://www.lawyersagainstthewar.org/articles/duboff.html]here[/url]. and if you doubt that the united states kills innocent people unless it is for the cause of justice, you are mistaken. six million iraqi children die each month under us imposed sanctions - sanctions that do nothing but kill innocent people. the united states gives four billion dollars each year in military support to israel, a nation that has consistently defied international law and basic human rights in it's continued exploitation and subjugation of the palestinian people, as is acknowledged by the international community. (the atrocities in sabra, shatila, and more recently jenin are testament to the innocent blood that the united states has helped spill in israel) and we can look to history as well, for evidence of the united states killing innocent people for it's own political ends. ask me for specifics on this and i will give them to you. just looking at the latest bombing on afghanistan.. there was what's deemed a 'high level' of civilian casualties.. somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand.. with no explanation other than that it seems Afghani life is worth very little to the US military. You can read more about this [url=http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm]here[/url]. the united states is furthering it's political ends by beginning a war on iraq, and any military action it takes there has *nothing* to do with the best interest of the iraqi people. if the united states was concerned about the iraqi people, they would have ended the sanctions that have killed millions of them a long time ago. |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| Abd_al-Rashid |
| 11/24/02 at 09:46:28 |
| [slm] [quote]I'm quite sure that Nither saddan hussain or the saudi royal family count as 'muslim' in any sense of the word. Now, I could be wrong, but is not the duty of a muslim not to serve an non-muslim leader, which is what the whole question is about?[/quote] Whoa! slow down! This is a grave matter. Granted they are not shining examples of Muslim leadership but as long as they bear witness and pray we still consider them Muslim, no matter how oppresive. [quote]Now, if the people of those counties contine to follow those leaders, they cannot be muslims themselves, therefore there should be no conflict of interest.[/quote] As for the people under them the same principle applies. We love to point the finger at Fahd and Saddam, not realizing that three fingers are pointing back at us. Instead we should reflect on the following authentic hadeeth (interpretation of the meaning): "There will come leaders who will not follow my guidance and not follow my Sunnah. There will be among them men who will have hearts of devils in the bodies of humans." The companion asked, "What shall I do, O Messenger of Allah (salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam) if I reach that?" He (salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam) replied: "You should hear and obey the ruler even if he flogs your back and takes your wealth, then still hear and obey." (Saheeh Muslim, Hadeeth number 4554 English translation) words from the scholar Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya: "The Companions asked permission from the Messenger of Allaah salla Allaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam for killing the leaders [Umaraa’] who delay the prayer from its proper time, saying: “Shall we not kill them.” So he said: “No, so long as they establish the prayer”, and he also said: “Whoever sees something from his leader [Ameer] something that he dislikes then let him be patient and let him not raise his hand [away] from the leader’s obedience.” -Ibn al-Qayyim in ‘I’laam ul-Muwaqqi’een an Rabbil-Aalameen.’ I know of one brother also in the marines, he said he's willing to go to jail for his deen, however he tells me he will soon be a commisioned officer insha'allah and as soon as he gets that he will leave immediately as there is no penalty. I'll ask him about conscientious objector because my understanding is that applies only to those who have not enlisted yet. They do make allowances for religious reasons. For example jehovah's witnesses and quakers are exempt from the draft and anything having to do with the military since it goes against their beliefs. [wlm] |
| Re: Grave Concern-Brother called to fight Iraq |
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| Abd_al-Rashid |
| 11/26/02 at 07:40:12 |
| [slm] Ok I asked the brother in the marines and he told me that in fact yes he can apply for conscientious objector, and they will give him a hard time about it and might threaten prison. After this he will receive an administrative discharge, which is one level above dishonorable. With an administrative he can still get employed in the civilian world. [wlm] |
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