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| Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quiet? |
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| Barr |
| 11/22/02 at 08:17:15 |
| Assalamu'alaikum :-) I've got smt on my mind... and I hope you can help me, inshaAllah. About 2 weeks ago, I was sitting in a bus going home for iftar.. its about 15 minutes before iftar. The bus was crowded, and I suddenly heard a voice saying "Hey! U're not fasting". I looked up, and saw this guy smiling sheepishly to his friend (who was quite near me, standing) and nonchalantly said,"Well, I gotta take my medicine". And began chomping on his bread. When the seat beside me is empty, one of them sat beside me, and another one infront of me, with his side facing me (his seat was facing the window, while mine was facing the front of the bus). And from their conversation, I feel that they do know abt fasting (coz they were talking abt fasting) and that they are Muslims.. but yet, this man was still eating without any sense of haya' and respect in front of me. I wouldn't have been so disturbed if he is not a Muslim, or someone who is just ignorant.. but at times, I feel that he is purposely doing that. I know, I'm being kinda long winded, but wot would U have done? Do U think I should have voiced out, and say something before I alighted the bus? Though I kept quiet, I think sometimes, by me, keeping quiet, I might give them the signal that they can just continue doing woteva that I find offensive, thinking.. "who cares?" She won't be saying anything... I can do woteve I want. Noone would say anything." And this is not the first time smt like this happened. There was one time, when I was in a train, standing, and this bloke, standing right opposite and facing me,.. prolly in his late teens (and most probably a Muslim too) was reading a soft porn magazine. It totally disgusts me.. but i was like... quiet. I just kept quiet and tried to calm myself down, while my heart is like ready to explode. And just a few days ago, a teenage Malay (most probably Muslim and unmarried) couple was acting so lovey dovey in a bus... and I can't even bring myself to look at them.. don't even talk abt giving a disapproving look. I get more upset when Muslims do it.. but a part of me would say.. be quiet... and just make du'a that Allah guides them. They may run away if U say smt.. blablabla. But I sometimes feel that if I don't do anything, it is as if, they would think that woteva they're doing.. is fine and dandy.. and even if they know we disapprove of their actions.. we would not be doing anything anyways. I'm not talking about go get the whip or retort rudely to them. Certainly, I'd want to do this with hikmah, but I'm not sure if keeping quiet is hikmah. And if I do say something, wot shall I say, that is short and sweet, but yet, it touches their heart? At the very least.. to have a sense of haya' (modesty) for themselves. I know, these kinda things would happen to me again. Please help. Wassalam :-) P.S. I hate confrontations. |
| 11/22/02 at 08:18:00 |
| Barr |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Red |
| 11/22/02 at 10:58:56 |
| [quote author=Barr link=board=madrasa;num=1037971036;start=0#0 date=11/22/02 at 08:17:15]Assalamu'alaikum :-) P.S. I hate confrontations. [/quote] [slm], i HATE confrontation too! To tell you the truth, i don't think i would have said anything either. I usually just pray to Allah as well. But, now that you mention it , i wonder if it is our duty to say something to them? I get scared thinking maybe on the day of judgement Allah will ask why we did not say anything to them? i try not to talk to muslim guys i don't know, (except if they say salam, i of course say salam back or if they have a question), but if they are doing something incorrect should i say something? i think if a muslim girl was doing something really wrong i would have to say something. good question sis. barr! wasalam, red |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Sabr |
| 11/22/02 at 11:01:40 |
| [slm] Sis I know exactly how u are feeling . It can make u frustrated,angry and sad all at the same time to see muslims behave the way u described. >:( :( :o ??? :'( Ive found myself in sooo many simailar situ wid muslims . Usually i would ask them (if they are in front of me) if they are muslims and then i would say "Assalamau alikum" to them. Most of the times they are shocked taht they are not scoffed at and someone is kind to them . I had simialr situ wid a sis.....she dressed very indecently ..most uncovered revealing clothes...and when i give her salams she was shocked and embarassed :-[( u could have seen it in her face)!! One defenitely cannot be harsh (even though u may feel like kicking butt :) } Always rememeber when dealing wid ppl ( I am constantly reminded...since am a lil hot tempered ;D } ...always remember" the best speech is the book of allah and the best guidance is the guidance of muhammed [saw] ur sis in Islam Sabr :-) [wlm] |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Adi28 |
| 11/22/02 at 11:59:38 |
Salaams It seems Barr to me atleast that your making alot of assumptions about these people that their muslim when it is likely that they could not be...and i think your incident on the bus where the guy was eating ...when i read your post it didn't seem to me that he was doing it on purpose...maybe he was being absentminded..or maybe he didn't realize that you could be fasting too..or maybe nobody taught to him to have the respect to not eat infront of a fasting person. well thats my two cents salaams Adi28 |
| 11/22/02 at 12:01:08 |
| Adi28 |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| theOriginal |
| 11/22/02 at 13:22:30 |
| [slm] hmmm....all soft porn and public display of affection aside.... First question that pops to my mind: Were you more offended because he was eating in front of you or because he wasn't fasting, period? [quote]but yet, this man was still eating without any sense of haya' and respect in front of me.[/quote] Perhaps he really WAS sick...and then perhaps that means that he must also eat intermittently to stay better. Would then your concern be the same? (Also he said he was sick, which means we should believe him.) In the food situation, I really wouldn't have said anything, and I really wouldn't have been offended at all. Because of the nature of fasting as an Ibadah (i.e. its practice or lack thereof is easily concealable), it gets me to think that perhaps since this man was not making an effort to conceal it, it really is his own concern...If he can't feel ashamed (can't think of the right word) in front of you, then there HAS to be a reason for this. Okay I'm not making sense anymore...But if it's worth much, i DID have a point. The other two scenarios, you said so yourself that you don't really know if they were muslim...but even if they were, could you, technically, really have stopped them from doing what they were doing. And yeah it feels AWFUL when we witness stuff like this....but unless I know that I have a right to make a comment about the person's act (i.e. unless it's a friend, relative, or someone I vaguely know) then I wouldn't say anything to them......for various reasons..... Gotta jet. SF. |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Barr |
| 11/22/02 at 18:52:01 |
| Assalamu'alaikum :-) Thanks for your replies, sisters.. and bro :) ooops.. no bro :) [quote]First question that pops to my mind: Were you more offended because he was eating in front of you or because he wasn't fasting, period? [/quote] The fact that it seems that he didn't respect the month. Hmmm, maybe, I am going on with assumptions here... but the culture and things of Muslims in Singapore are exposed to is such that, * abt 90% of Malays are Muslims. * There's public education of respecting the month, with banners at mosques and other strategic places, jingles in TV etc. (well, maybe the public education do not reach enough people :() * The brother was talking abt fasting in Ramadan, and he seems to have enough knowledge to know the basics of it. * I look like a Muslim. Allahua'lam... but that is wot I felt. I did try to have husnuzon, but, frankly, I don't feel good about the whole thing. [quote]The other two scenarios, you said so yourself that you don't really know if they were muslim...but even if they were, could you, technically, really have stopped them from doing what they were doing.[/quote] Its not about stopping them, but to say or do smt that would make them think. Thanks again :) Allahua'lam. |
| 11/22/02 at 18:54:35 |
| Barr |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| WhatDFish |
| 11/22/02 at 20:50:23 |
| i would keep quiet cos nothin u cd say i believe would help. those ppl who do that are showing their defiance and arrogance against Allah. what abt some families who eat before iftaar and men drinking beer in Geylang (where the Ramadhaan bazaar is held in Singapore)? soft porn magazine in singapore :o? |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Kathy |
| 11/23/02 at 11:08:04 |
| [slm] Bottom line is if he is allowed to eat... he is allowed to eat. It is a mercy to him from Allah swt. The other day my hubby, I and a another man were working in the garage on a Ramadan craft. The man's wife came in drinking a cup of coffee. Her hubby said something to her and she ran back into the house. Later she apologized. I said I saw nothing wrong with it, if she is allowed, she is allowed...it is Allah's rules. Then I winked at her and said... the only unfortunate thing is that now we all know that you've got your period! ;) |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Tesseract |
| 11/23/02 at 13:05:26 |
| [slm] Just a few days back, I had the opportunity to attend a lecture on "Amr bil Ma'roof wa nahi 'anil munkar" by Sheikh Mukhtar Maghroui. According to him, there are certain requirments that are to be fulfilled before u really go upto someone and tell him/her that whatever they are doing is wrong or they need to change themselves. One of the requirements was checking ur ownself for Riya. I don't remember the others but there was a brother who asked a question later that one of his freinds doesn't pray and he wanted to advise him, but he wasn't sure how should he word his advice so that his friend should understand it. If my memory serves me right, the sheikh replied that if the brother was not 'sure' how to advise his friend, then its better to leave that matter as is. So, it appears that before we say something to someone, we should be sure that it would really help them. [quote]but unless I know that I have a right to make a comment about the person's act (i.e. unless it's a friend, relative, or someone I vaguely know) then I wouldn't say anything to them......for various reasons..... [/quote] I am of the same opinion, that unless I really know the person and I am sort of sure that my words 'will' work, I dont approach someone to teach him something. Talking to people and trying to teach them in first and a short meeting is never easy unless u are pretty knowledgeable to handle the backfire which has a lot of chances to occur for several reasons, specially in a situation that u describe. So, I think its better to be patient and stay quiet, make du'a for their and ur hidayah and thank Allah (swt) for the hikmah that has been granted to u that u can atleast differentiate between right and wrong to a certain extent as compared to those ignorant people out there. The situation is pretty common to occur, but the way I see it (and I may be wrong), is that when within a few minutes I am tempted enough by someone's ignorant act that I wanna speak out right away, then it is the Shaitan that is whispering and working on me, and I can feel the anger inside myself, and I feel that Shaitan wants me to say something, anything, but just say it and I am sure that whatever I am gonna say is not wrong, I tend to forget that its not the right 'time', right 'place' and right 'person' to speak to. This is what I have learnt from my past experiences. It is better to be sure of the outcome of an act, rather than just be sure of the correctness of that act itself. Allahu Ta'ala A'lam and May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong (Ameen). Wassalam. |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| oneway2paradise |
| 11/23/02 at 16:05:11 |
| [slm] [quote]Bottom line is if he is allowed to eat... he is allowed to eat. It is a mercy to him from Allah SubHana Wa Ta`ala. The other day my hubby, I and a another man were working in the garage on a Ramadan craft. The man's wife came in drinking a cup of coffee. Her hubby said something to her and she ran back into the house. Later she apologized. I said I saw nothing wrong with it, if she is allowed, she is allowed...it is Allah's rules. Then I winked at her and said... the only unfortunate thing is that now we all know that you've got your period! [/quote] This is exactly the reason NOT to eat in public. It is a mercy from Allah but do it at home. There should be an atmosphere of fasting. If you are in public and another Muslim sees you eating, it creates bad feelings. There should be unity among the Muslims. We shouldn't advertise that we can't fast. In Saudi Arabia no one is allowed to eat in public during Ramadan, even non-Muslims. They will be thrown out of the country. [slm] :-) :-* :-) |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Kathy |
| 11/23/02 at 18:41:45 |
| [wlm] [quote author=oneway2paradise link=board=madrasa;num=1037971036;start=0#9 date=11/23/02 at 16:05:11]It is a mercy from Allah but do it at home. [/quote] Is there a hadith to back up this thought? [quote]If you are in public and another Muslim sees you eating, it creates bad feelings. [/quote] Why does the person have bad feelings? If anything we should have compassion for that person, because for some reason they can not fast. [quote]In Saudi Arabia no one is allowed to eat in public during Ramadan, even non-Muslims.  They will be thrown out of the country.[/quote] How sad. By fasting we should learn that some people have things and some do not and not to despair over what we can not have at that moment. During Ramadan many of us that have all we need become familiar with those who do not have things... like food. This is part of our struggle. [img]http://websmileys.bei.t-online.de/div231.gif[/img] In my mind I would reconsider my thought process if I became angry because I saw someone eating while I was fasting. |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Abd_al-Rashid |
| 11/24/02 at 10:05:34 |
| [slm] Reading this thread made me feel strange. It's just the small details...you see in the Muslim countries there is an environment of fasting, Ramadan is here, don't eat in public, get thrown out the country... In America life goes on. It does not bother me at all to see people eating, and some of them do more than eating in public. You pull up at a red light, here comes a food vendor. Walking down the street, smell of food from a cafeteria. Co-workers eat lunch right in front of you. In that situation on the bus, I would not say a word. Here people stuff their faces day and night, just keep walking. [wlm] |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| UmmWafi |
| 11/24/02 at 20:45:31 |
| [slm] I am not really gonna answer the question here but I am gonna ask one of my own and relate what 3 reverts told me with regards to fasting :) Sowwy Barr My question to Sis Barr (and others too of course) is : At the end of Ramadhan, say Muharram or Safar or on Maulid al-Nabi, if you see Muslim couples being publicly physical, Muslims drinking alcohol openly etc, what would u have done ? Do u feel u need to preserve only the haya' of Ramadhan ? What about the haya' and sanctity of Islam as a whole ? Or do u feel this way cos Ramadhan "is a special month"? What my 3 revert friends told me (more or less along the same line) : "Wow, this is my first time fasting and it is hard. LOL, I am so tempted to break fast many times but Alhamdulillah I struggled. What makes it harder is when people eat drink and smoke (this is from a bro) around me. What makes it worse is when other Muslims do it. But Insya'Allah, I know I can make it if I try" I wonder, if we know that our bros and sis are struggling and performing jihad to perfect their Deen, would we have made their struggles harder ? Wallahu'alam Wassalam |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| bhaloo |
| 11/27/02 at 01:02:55 |
| [slm] Mashallah, this is a very good question sister Barr, a question that many of us face on a daily basis, myself included. One of the famous scholars, Imam Ibn Qayyim il-Jawziyya said: "When one contemplates the condition of the messengers with their peoples, one finds that they established the rejection (of evil) firmly among them, until they met Allah (SWT). They advised those who had believed them to perform this rejection (of evil) with those who were disobedient. And the Prophet (SAW) informed that if one is void of the 3 levels of rejecting evil, then he does not possess a mustard seed's amount of Iman (Faith). He (SAW) was so adamant about commanding good and forbidding evil, that he (SAW) said: "Indeed if people abandon it, Allah may cover them with a punishment from Himself." (Recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At Tirmidhi) He (SAW) also informed that failing to do so prevents the supplications of the good people from being answered, permits the evil people to reach power, causes difference and dissension among people, and incurs Allah's curse as He cursed the children of Israel who failed to do it." Madarim us-Salikin, v.3 p.123 Shaikh Ibn Taymiyyah said: "There are 3 essential qualities that must be present in the person who commands good and forbids evil: 1). Knowledge 2). gentleness 3). patience. Knowledge must preced the command or prohibition; gentleness must consort it, and patience must follow it. Sureley each of these 3 would (normally) be present in a person in all such situations, as is reported from some of the salaf: "None is to command good and forbid evil unless he understands what he is commanding and what he is forbidding, is gentle in his commanding and forbidding, and is patient in his commanding and forbidding." Majmu ul-Fatawa, v.28 p.136-137 Gentleness- Gentleness does not exist in anything but it is beautified by it; and harshness does not exist in anything but it is marred by it... (recorded by Muslim) Indeed Allah is gentle; He loves gentleness in all matters. he gives, through gentleness, what He will not give through harshness. (Muslim) Patience- "...And command good and forbid evil, and be patient with whatever afflicts you; indeed this is the firmness (required for) matters." (Luqman 31:17) Knowledge- "Indeed those who dispute about Allah's ayat wihtout any authority given to them, there is nothin in their chests except pride..." (Ghafir 40:56) This was a brief response, but insha'Allah if we can apply these principles then we will be successful. p.s. as far as i know it is very bad manners to eat in front of a fasting person, but im not aware of any verse from the Quran or hadith forbidding it, perhaps if someone knows. i checked islam-qa, they don't give any proof either, but it looks like they look down upon this practice of eating in front of people fasting. |
| 11/27/02 at 08:28:34 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| Chris |
| 11/27/02 at 12:59:41 |
| If I can offer a surgestion <ducks heavy object thrown at him>, just ignore it because you don't know all the facts. I saw a muslim girl eating last week and my suprise must have shown in my face because she looked a little embarassed and wispered that it was 'her time'. Medical reasons don't always show on the skin, and possibullly he was on a strict diet purcribed by the doctor or perhaps he was just pretending to believe to attract a suitable sister......... we just don't know. God sees everything and understands. Such matters should be left in his hands, which are far wiser and compassionate than mine Chris |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| BroHanif |
| 11/30/02 at 03:06:04 |
| Salaams [quote]In Saudi Arabia no one is allowed to eat in public during Ramadan, even non-Muslims. They will be thrown out of the country. [/quote] I could swear I saw the US Marines eating the other day... I can vaguley remember an incident at the time of Hazrat Umar. R.A. that once a person was eating in Ramadan, Umar R.A. got angry with this person and asked him to leave the vicinity, he also informed him that how could you eat when the young are fasting,he was also spared the lashes since he was an outsider. When I find the source again I'll put it up. Eating is from Allah, however, in Ramadan one is refrained from eating as it is an act which will not please Allah. Surely if one carries on eating in public do they have any rahmah for their bros/sisters who are fasting ? Do they have no shame ? How can we attain a level of Islam in the country if we accept people are eating openly, fine if you have to eat then do it in private. Salaams Hanif |
| NS |
| Re: Would U have spoken? Or would U just keep quie |
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| NinthMuharram |
| 12/05/02 at 09:17:01 |
| The article is too long. I don't want to paste it all here. It's abt non Muslims in Malaysia who fast in ramadhan. http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2002/12/2/features/fffas t&sec=features |
| 12/05/02 at 09:21:25 |
| NinthMuharram |
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