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Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Caraj
01/03/02 at 13:04:32
Hopefully both brothers and sisters will give me their opinions. I was just wondering how Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline? I know different societies feel different on the topic. Today in my country you have to be so careful about child abuse. I always thought the best way to find a naughty childs self-estime was on his or hers backside. (SSSSSSSWAT) ;-D To me different problems require different disapline. I am amazed by kids now a days. They do things I would of never thought of doing, much less trying.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kathy
01/03/02 at 16:21:49
My son? No not my son.... never.... [i] Kathy answers, realizing that she is on the Board of Directors of a State Child Development Agency....[/i] It is not called a spanking- it is called an "attitiude adjustment"

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Sparrow
01/03/02 at 16:43:21
I don't know about the discipline part, but I do know that when my little brother was a child growing up in Saudi he got so much positive attention from the Saudis! My mom would take him shopping with her to the suik when he was around 5 years old, and he would come home with free loot from the shopkeepers - electronic cars, candy, all sorts of good stuff.      In my experience Arab culture dotes on children.  Don't know if this is Arab or Muslim though. Peace, Sparrow

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
BrKhalid
01/05/02 at 06:56:03
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) I remember one of our Imams relating a story about him and his nephew I think. He said that he would joke and play with the boy but whenever he would do something wrong he would glare and make a disapproving face and that would be enough to discipline the child.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
kiwi25
01/05/02 at 19:00:34
salam, i use to be a very quite child, you know the type that stickes around with moomy and daddy..... if i ever did something wrong...i would first get *the look* form my mother and if i persisted doing wrong things, then she would hit me.. i beelive in disapling your child, to me there is a difference between that and beating/or child abusing your children isnt there a hadith that says that when your child reaches the time of praying salah but doesnt, then hit them until they do....? wasalam nouha:)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Hajreee
01/06/02 at 00:33:45
Salaams i've heard *many* people say that 'silent treatment' is far worse than being hit from your parents...just thought i would share that with you all :) Wa Salaams =)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
bhaloo
01/06/02 at 00:54:43
slm [quote]i've heard *many* people say that 'silent treatment' is far worse than being hit from your parents...just thought i would share that with you all :) [/quote] Speaking from experience ??? I didn't get the 'silent treatment' growing up, a good old fashioned spanking set me straight. ;)  Hmmm, maybe it was BATA chappal, Arsalan probably knows what I'm talking about. :)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
ABD
01/06/02 at 01:05:30
[slm] I personally haven't been spanked by my parents that much but there were occasions where me and my bro did really bad stuff and we'd be threatened, like scared by our parents. They would say, we're gonna leave you outside in the dark at night b/c you two have been so bad. And we'd be so scared b/c we didn't like to be left outside alone in the dark :o But now that we're older and there's no more spanking (Alhamdulillah ;-D) my mom (especially her) uses the silent treatment. Like I'll do s/thing that she really doesn't approve of then she won't talk to me for the rest of the day but in the end Alhamdulillah we always patch things up and it's all cool 8-) Just my two cents ;-D [wlm] Betul

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Hajreee
01/06/02 at 02:02:33
Salaams hey yo! i'm not speaking from experience (alhamdulillah)...see, i was such a good daugther that my parents never had to give me 'silent treatment' ;) and BATA chappals rock man! too bad they don't have them here :( *sniff sniff*...guess i gots to wait till i head back to the motherland and stock up on them :) all rightey, Ta Ta, and Wa Salaams

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Arsalan
01/06/02 at 02:16:03
[slm] I've been hit a lot in my childhood :(  (I was really not a bad kid!  No, really ... I wasn't!) My mom always went for the face! My dad was more kind.  He always slapped the back.  (though it was always a lot harder).   Silent treatment probably means when you do something terrible and when you tell them what you did they don't say *anything*!  They become really quiet.  You expect them to get mad, yell at you, maybe even hit you.  But they just sit there, disappointed, silent.   P.S. I have *never* been hit by a bata chappal (or any chappal for that matter) alhamdulillah :)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
ABD
01/06/02 at 02:25:18
[slm] BATA chappal??? huh??? What is that? [wlm] Betul

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Hajreee
01/06/02 at 19:35:33
Salaams Chappals= sandals BATA= name brand and Arsalan- hit in the face?! i *heard* it was haram to slap in the face??? My mom used to threaten to hit me with the jarru ;-D hehehe! Okay, i'm going to continue reading the other threads, i don't want to post, my hands are killing me from skiing yesterday! Take Care All! Wa Salaams =)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
BroHanif
01/06/02 at 18:58:32
Aye, I got some right slaps from me mom, sh'ed never hit me on the face though, she always explained why she was gonna hit me and then she would go ahead. And the funny thing was that it didn't hurt after a while but then I knew that it wasn't something that my mom enjoyed so I would try to behave and be momys boy. Never got hit by mee dad, ever !. I would try not to hit my child, however, if she misbehaved or did something which was not quite right. I'd cool down first and then talk it over and then if the situation warrented, hit her and then go to the park and enjoy a big fat ice cream. Salaams Hanif

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kashif
01/06/02 at 19:20:57
[quote]They would say, we're gonna leave you outside in the dark at night b/c you two have been so bad. And we'd be so scared b/c we didn't like to be left outside alone in the dark :o Betul [/quote] *laugh* With my mum it was similar. She would threaten to lock my brother in the cellar. That usually set him straight ... for a few weeks anyway!
NS

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Caraj
01/06/02 at 19:26:02
bhaloo !!!!!!!!   brohanif !!!!!!!! I just can't imagine either of you being naughty enough to get a spanking when you were little  :O and here I thought you two were so nice and wise and all. I was thinking if you were this way now you could of only been model children  ;-D  :D

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Rashid
01/06/02 at 23:45:15
[slm] My mom is straight out the old school.  I used to get some serious beatdowns...the funny thing is that she would reach for the first thing that was closest to her, so that meant shoes, belts, magazines...etc.  I'm just glad I never misbehaved in the kitchen! In latino culture parents are very strict, back home kids get beat in public and no one says a word.  The benefit of this is that very rarely will you find kids mouthing off, or cursing at their parents, or disrespecting elders.  Something I have seen quite often in america. And lastly I'm not traumatized or emotionally scarred or anything like that, I was actually a good little boy so beatings only happened once a year :) [wlm]

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Asim
01/07/02 at 00:29:26
Assalaamu alaikum, I got yelled at a lot! Well, I was not very naughty-naughty in the traditional sense (you know loud, bad mouthed, stubborn, etc) but I was the one who did tricks quietly :) Let's see, hmm, I don't remember any major spankings, just some slaps on the back. My mom was kinda lenient, not my father! At school in Africa we had this funny custom that after a ruling was made the teacher would ask the grieved person to go out and select a stick to be used to spank the one other party. Man, the long, flexible bush branches hurt a lot ;) Personally, I think the set of disciplinary actions that a parent should use must include spanking. Of course, it should be used for the worst kinds of offences only. Wasalaam.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
M.F.
01/07/02 at 07:14:57
Assalamu alaikum The *Look*! My gosh the Look!  I hated that so much.  It only worked when my dad did it because I loved him SOOOOO much and I hated to disappoint him and you could TELL that you'd disappointed him.  My mom sometimes gave us spankings and a talk (and my dad too once in a while) and that was it . But the Look... man that hurt!

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
akbalkhan
01/07/02 at 10:08:27
As Salamu Alaykum, I was beaten as a child, severely at times.  My brother too.  My brother and I were removed from the custody of our parents at an early age and placed into foster care, shelters, some apathetic relatives, and finally a Christian Scholarship Program that involved living near a top university, attending a private college prep high school, and being cared for by nuns. The hard part was having another brother who did not get the same treatment.  (I had three brothers) I have grown up now, getting ready to start my own family, as my wife and I are expecting.  I do not believe in the kind of discipline that involves what I received, but I do believe that some of the hitting I received facilitated my recognizing the severity of some of the things I had done, breaking windows of neighbors (on purpose), fighting other kids, ditching school, and things of that nature.  In the U.S., parents can be fined, imprisoned, or loose their children in some municipalities, on account of how they treat their children, families.  I think that many of the laws and procedures for enforcing them, safeguard the tax payers pockets, more than the rights of abused children or falsely accused parents.   Physical discipline effects children in very different ways depending upon the personality and dimensions of the child's perception of cause and effect. This should be taken into consideration when deciding upon a course of action with a child. There are many reports that suggest, what with all of the hormones and harmful chemicals in non-organic products, and the effects of estrogen mimickers in practically everything we consume, the attention span of our children is getting smaller and smaller, anger and other bio-chemical and electrical responses are becoming harder and harder to normalize or control, even as drugged up as some countries children are getting.  What additional lesson is there for children who are beaten for misdeeds if they observe their parents engaging in questionable acts, inappropriate behaviour, or speaking in a chauvanistic, ignorant, or verbally abusive manner?  What right do some parents have to beat their children if they too would be beaten for their transgressions in an Islamic country? There are definitely situation in al-Islam where beating someone is definitely permissable, other situations where it is perscribed, and certain ways of beating that appears to be prohibited, like on the face. May Allah SWT guide us in this and all matters, insha'Allah. Regards, Qamar Akbal Kaan

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
BrKhalid
01/07/02 at 12:17:29
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]It only worked when my dad did it because I loved him SOOOOO much and I hated to disappoint him and you could TELL that you'd disappointed him.[/quote] Children are quick learners ;-) If they normally see you as :) They'll wonder what's wrong when they see you :( Hence "The Look" will be more effective if one is generally of cheery disposition the majority of the time ;-) [Well that's my take on it anyway] ;-)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
tq
01/07/02 at 13:32:27
Assalamo elikuim I was spanked a lot when I was kid by my mother , hardly ever ( I don’t even remember) by my dad – that was my mother’s department . But never on face, though I was slapped once on the face in school by a teacher because I didn’t do home work and lied that I have left at home, obviously I was not a good liar .(I didn’t tell my mother about it because I knew that I will be getting more because of  lying) Most of the time I was spanked because  either I was teasing my brothers or all of us were being naughty . Very rarely “LOOKS” worked for us – only in front of  others but once when we were alone it was always PATIA (spanking). I guess as the saying goes “LATO KAY BHOOT BATO SAY NAHI MAN TAY” :) (I need a translator here ). And I am also not traumatized or anything . I also said ( note I am using “ said” , past tense :)  ) that I will never spank my kids but once in a while you reach a point where you have too. My kids are Alhamdullah very well behaved but sometimes…… My husband only gives a “LOOK” to kids and it works like magic!! Where as if I even give 100 “Looks” it wont effect my kids at all (inherited from me, I guess  :) )!! Wasalam Tamseel

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
amatullah
01/08/02 at 00:41:55
Bismillah Cara if you were looking for an Islamic view on disciplining children here are some articles, or parts of them: *Too much discipline can certainly cause rebellion. So can too little. Muslim homes should be loving, caring homes where persuasion works most of the time. But when there is need for discipline, shying away from it can only exacerbate the problem. In the U.S., spanking a child by the parents is a no-no. Yet laws allow a thirteen year old to be treated as an adult (and held with adult criminals) in violent crime cases. Islam asks us to avoid both extremes. For example, we are asked to encourage the children to offer prayers from the age of seven. But they should be disciplined if they refuse to pray after age ten. Insufficient parental control can be as damaging as too much parental control. *We are commanded to be mild and loving to children. The Noble Rasul(SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) sent Sayyidinaa Mu-aadh, (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) to Yaman with instructions to be soft and make things easy for the people, not to be hard on them, to teach them, and not to create hatred. In another version the words are, "Educate them and do not be harsh, because a teacher is better than one who is severe." A child is won over by tenderness. The Noble Rasul (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) treated children with mildness and love. The nature of the child must be considered before instituting punishment. Some are corrected by a mere stern glance. Others need to be scolded. Yet others need the rod (But only the very last resort). The murabbi must punish the child in accordance with the misdeed. Excess and severity bring about cowardice and laziness in a child. The development of such a child stops. Laziness sets in. there is no incentive to develop virtue, perfection and good conduct. Therefore, the murabbi must exercise care and use wisdom in meting out punishment. Punishment must be used as a last resort. Gradual steps should be taken when punishing a child. The murabbi is like a healer. Just as the doctor uses various means of treating patients, the murabbi must employ different methods to correct a child. The Noble Rasul, (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM), used the methods given below: 1. Correct the mistake by showing the correct procedure. Sayyidina Umar bin Abii Salmah, Radiyallahu Anhu as a young boy, would not control his hands while eating. The Noble Rasul ((SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM)) said, " Son, take the name of Allah before eating, and eat with your right hand. Start with the food that is nearest to you." 2. Correct by teaching tenderly. Once, the Noble Rasul,(SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) drank something. To his right sat a youngster, and to his left and aged person. He sought the youngsters leave to let the aged person drink first. The youngster did not agree saying, " By Allah, I cannot give preference to anyone to your blessed leftover." The Noble Rasul desired to teach the boy the rights of elders and the respect due to them. 3. Correct by pointing out an error. Sayyidinaa Fadl, (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) happened to glance at a woman. The Rasul (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM), physically turned his face the other way so that he could understand that what he was doing was incorrect. 4. Correct by scolding. Once Abuu Dhar (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) spoke harshly to someone and called him the son of a black woman. The Noble Rasul of Allah, (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) said, "You are aman on whom there are traces of the jaahiliyyah(era of ignorance). You debased his mother. Your servants are your helpers. Treat them well." 5. Correct by severing ties. The Noble Rasul of Allah, (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) forbade the throwing of stones. He said one could not hunt by throwing stones, neither could one cuse damage to an enemy, but there was always the risk of hurting someone or dislodging a tooth by hurling a stone. Sayyidinaa Abdullah bin Mughaffal, (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) remembered this advice one of his kin tossed pebbles. He asked him to stop doing so. He told him about the injunction imposed by Sayyidinaa Rasulullah (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM). That person however persisted in throwin pebbles. Sayyidinaa Abdullah bin Mughaffal (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) said, " I told you the words of the Noble Rasul of Allah, (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM), in this regard, but you paid no heed. Go, I will not speak to you any more." We also know that Sayyidinaa Ka'b bin Maalik, (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) remained behind in the Ghazwah Tabuuk. The Noble Rasul, (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) forbade others to speak to him and his isolation lasted fifty days. Also, Sayyidinaa Abdullah bin Umar, (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) never again spoke to one of his sons because of his apparent disregard of a hadith. 6. Correct by using the rod. The Noble Rasul (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) said, "When the child is seven years old command the performing of salaah but, if, ten years age, the child does not perform salaah, administer a beating." 7. Correct by means of the most effective punishment. For example, the Noble Quran has prescribed a hundred lashes to be given in public to the person who commits fornication so that others may take heed. It has been commanded to execute murderers, so that peace may prevail the world over. When, after punishment, the child refroms, .and its character and habits have improved, be cheerful and good-natured towards it. Let the child know that punishment was for the childs own benefit, so that one may be successful in this world and in the hereafter. The Noble Rasul, (SALLALLAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM) treated Sayyidinaa Ka'b (RADIYALLAHU ANHU) in exactly this manner. However, a child must not be beaten when one is in a state of extreme anger, because at that moment one may be under the devil's influence. Only such places on the body must be beaten where there is no possibility of injury. One must not slap on the face, hit or punch on the chest, head or stomach. Mild punishment be dispensed in the beginning, and if it shows not results, only then may one mete out a harsher punishment. Do not beat a child under ten. When it is the child's first mistake, allow it a chance to relent. Accept the excuse. Do not unnecessarily publicise faults. If the child has to be punished, the murabbi must undertake the task, and not other children. Beat only when it is imperative and only the dose that is necessary. Everything is perfect onlywhen it is done when necessary and within the correct limits. The Noble Quran uses stern words at times, and warns us against the punishment of Allah. Also, on some occasions, it has declared war against neglectful people. We are warned of the torment of the hereafter, and of the punishment in this world. *my own notes: the prophet saws said that when hitting you have to make it like the hit of a miswak, which is a very big twig, nothing bigger, or harder. It is to shame not to cause pain. Never to hit on the face as well. many muslims nowadays will chose other forms of punishment such as no internet,etc instead of that. *Discipline I have extracted the subject of this article mainly from a book by the famous Psychologist, Dr. Scott Peck, MD en-titled, The Road Less Traveled. This was on the best sellers' list of books about ten years ago. I enjoyed reading it at that time, but as is usually the case, many of its salient features were forgotten or never registered in my mind. Recently I noticed my daughter was reading this book, and so I browsed through it and it had a very profound ef-fect on me. Most of Dr. Peck's observations are already mentioned in the Holy Koran (Quran). I will try to point them out to the best of my knowledge and ability. According to Dr. Peck, life is difficult and this is a great truth. Life is a se-ries of problems that most of us moan about, instead of trying to solve. Discipline is the basic set of tools we require to solve life's problems. Without discipline, we can solve nothing; but with some discipline, we can solve many problems with God's help. For example, as a submitter (Muslim), we discipline ourselves by trying to observe God's commandments in our daily lives. What makes life difficult is that the process of confronting and solving problems is a painful one. Yet it is in this whole process of meeting and solving problems that life has its meaning. Problems create our courage and our wisdom. It is only because of problems that we grow mentally and spiritually. When we desire to encourage the growth of the human spirit, we challenge and encourage the human capacity to solve problems. Just as in school we deliberately set problems for our children to solve. It is through the pain of confronting and resolving problems that we learn. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Those things that hurt, instruct. It is for this reason that wise people learn not to fear problems, but to actually welcome the pain of problems." As it is said, no pain, no gain. Did we not show him the two paths? He should choose the difficult path. (90:10-11) Most of us are not so wise. Because of the pain involved in confronting problems, almost all of us to a greater or lesser degree attempt to avoid problems. We procrastinate, hoping they will go away. We ignore them, forget them and pretend they do not exist. Discipline is the basic set of tools we require to solve life's problems. These tools are techniques by which we ex-perience the pain of problems in such a way as to work through them and solve them successfully, learning and growing in the process. There are four tools of discipline: ? delaying of gratification and pleasure ? acceptance of responsibility ? dedication to truth and reality ? balancing. These are simple tools and almost all children are adept in the use of them by the age of ten. Yet presidents and kings will often forget to use them to their own downfall. The problem lies not in the complexity of these tools, but in the will to use them. For they are tools with which pain is confronted rather that avoided. Delaying of Gratification The first of the tools of discipline is delaying gratification. This is a process of scheduling the pain and pleasure of life in such a way as to enhance the pleasure by experiencing the pain first and getting it over with. This means we should always do our difficult task first and then do the easy or the pleasant task next. We always want our chil-dren to do their homework first, before they are allowed to watch TV. Another example of delaying gratification is a student who takes the time and effort to finish school and college first, before he or she can get a good job and reap the fruits of his or her labor. Good discipline requires time-time to pay attention to our children and loved ones; time to learn and time to solve problems. It is said that if we take the time to concentrate, we can solve many of the problems that seem dif-ficult to us at first. Responsibility The second tool of discipline is responsibility. We cannot solve life's problems except by solving them. This statement may seem self evident, yet it is beyond the understanding of much of the human race. This is because we must accept responsibility for a problem before we can solve it. We cannot solve a problem by saying it is not a problem. But many seek to avoid the pain of the problem by saying to themselves, "this problem was caused by other people, or by social circumstances beyond my control and therefore it is up to other people or society to solve this problem for me. It is not really my personal problem." The extent to which people will go psychologi-cally to avoid assuming responsibility for personal problems, while always sad, is sometime ludicrous. God mentions in the Holy Koran that we are responsible for our deeds and actions in this world and that we should not expect any intercession in the hereafter. This means that God wants us to be responsible for our prob-lems in this world, and wants us to solve them by seeking His guidance and help. Dedication to Truth and Reality The third tool of discipline is dedication to truth and reality. This needs to be employed continuously if we wish to keep our lives healthy and our spirits growing. Truth is reality. The more clearly we see the reality of the world, the better equipped we are to deal with the world. Our view of reality is like a map with which we negotiate the terrain of life. If the map is true and accurate, we will know where we are and if we have decided where we want to go, we will know how to get there. If the map is false and inaccurate, we will be lost. This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubt (2:147, 3:60) They said, "O our people, we have heard a book that was revealed after Moses, and confirms the previous scrip-tures. It guides to the truth; to the right path. (46:30) While this is obvious, most people choose to ignore it. They ignore it because our route to reality is not easy. First of all we have to make an effort. The more effort we make to appreciate and perceive reality, the larger and more accurate our map will be. But many do not want to make this effort. Some stop making it by the end of adolescence. Their maps are small and sketchy, their view of the world narrow and misleading. By the end of the middle age, most people have given up the effort. They feel certain that their maps are complete and correct. Only a relatively fortunate few continue until the moment of death expanding the mystery of reality, ever enlarging and refining and redefining their under-standing of the world and what is true. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth. (43:78) The world itself is constantly changing. Our vantage point from which we view the world is rapidly changing. When we have children to care for, the world looks different from when we had none. When we are poor, the world looks different from when we are rich. We are daily bombarded with new information as to the nature of reality. O people, God's promise is the truth; therefore, do not be distracted by this lowly life. Do not be diverted from God by mere illusions. (35:5) In the Holy Koran, God wants us to seek His guidance to the right path or map. Guide us in the right path; the path of those whom You have blessed, not of those who have deserved wrath, nor the strayers. (1:7) A practicing Muslim invokes God's guidance many times daily. Our problem in the morning may not be the same as in the afternoon or evening or night. Accordingly God in His wisdom has asked us to seek His guidance to the right path through the Salat prayers-five times daily. Balancing The fourth and final discipline is balancing. By this time it seems that the exercise of discipline is not only a de-manding, but also a complex task requiring both flexibility and judgment. We should try to be completely honest. We must assume total responsibility for ourselves. We must be organized and efficient. To live wisely, we must daily delay gratification and keep an eye on the future. Yet to live joyously, discipline itself, must be disciplined. The type of discipline required to discipline is what Dr. Peck calls balancing. For example, God mentions in the Holy Koran that we should not be excessive and extrava-gant while giving the due alms to the people (17:26). Thus God cautions us against extremism. Balancing is the discipline that gives us flexibility. Extraordinary flexibility and judgment is required for successful living in all spheres of our daily life. …The best enlightment indeed is what God recommends for you… (4:58) Amin Zayosh

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Barr
01/08/02 at 01:42:55
Assalamu'alaikum :-) Personally, I would want to be a [i]cool[/i] mom... you know, the one that is fun to be with, and whom you can tell everything to her, who doesn't nag... and if my children gets up to no good, I only need to give them "the look", and they'll understand and be good :) inshaALlah :) I think children education needs to start early, from conception itself. There are studies that show that the bulk of juvenile cases are from those who are born out of wedlock. Hence, we can see the utmost importance of having children within marriage, plus following the adab of consumation as well. (ie. the du'a etc etc etc). This is particularly important, as during consumation itself, the "halalness" and "blessedness" of the activity itself, would effect a person psychologically. This in turn, would affect the child should the lady conceive. I got this from Sayyid Sabiq's book. I'll mail more abt this later, inshaAllah. Quite interesting, actually. Of course, the manner that we raise our children, would shape him as well. The Prophet (sa.w) has also shown us how he brought up and treated children. The Prophet has never beat/ hit a child or a woman. I think that is a very important point to consider. However, when we look at his sirah, we would also notice that he used a lot of wisdom to teach children values, and hence, he would not even need to use the rod to discipline a child. For that to be achieved, children education must start from young. Rules that need to be set and enforcement of those rules must be in  effective, yet creative ways. Just to share, in Abdullah Nasih Ulwan's book on Tarbiyatul Awlad fil Islam (Children's Education in Islam), it shares that the disciplining of children can be done in various methods . Nevertheless, we are always reminded to have compassion Eg. 1) by Nasihah ( advice) 2) by Gentle ways 3) by Signals 4) by scolding 5) by silent treatment 6) by physical punishment (I can't find the suitable word here, but I guess, like spanking or such) For No. 6, there are conditions applied, like it must be the last resort (ie. after nasihah and other means), the parent must not do it in a state of anger, and the parent must not hit in the face, head, stomach or any other place that would cause danger to the child. Any physical punishment must not be too heavy for the child etc.     Anyways, about the book, it also states how do we raise a child with iman, having the qur'an in their hearts, solah, fasting as well as good adab and akhlaq (character), like patience and sharing and many many more.  However, the book, is quite generalised, which has it's good points as we do need to adjust and contextualise it, as each child is different. Thanx a lot for bringing this topic up, Sis Cara. It's been a long time, since I left it on the shelf :) OK, now I'm motivated to continue reading.. you know how you read one book, then stop.. and pick up a new book to read? Then ended up not finishing reading any book!? :)   I'm not sure if the book is available in English. I only have a Malay translation of it. But I think there are some introductory books on Islamic Parenting available, inshaAllah. Take care! WAssalam :)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Barr
01/08/02 at 01:56:22
Oops, I wrote my post before reading Sis Amatullah's post.. well.. I can't remember seeing it :) I think our sources are the same :)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
se7en
01/08/02 at 06:19:11
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, Maaaan... some of you had it rough :( Me.. I've never once been hit.  I'm suprised I'm not a complete delinquent considering how little actual 'discipline' I've had growing up :)  I'm the youngest of four kids, so I think by the time I came around my parents were tired of discipline :P  My siblings made up for it though - they were the ones that really kept me in check a lot of times.  They still do actually :) Alhamdulillah.  My mom had some interesting ways of punishing us :)  I remember once my bro and I got into a fight, and she gave us this crazy desi punishment.. we both had to stand facing the wall, and then while holding onto our earlobes we had to do squats, like 100x.. hahahaha.. and every time we went down we had to say "I will not fight with my brother/sister.. I will not fight with my brother/sister.." :) I don't know what sort of mother I'd be (inshaAllah, I'll get the opportunity to find out one day :)).  There are certain things I know I'd be very hard about (like salah, attending masjid) and others I'd be very lax about (like grades or curfew).  I think I'd be a relatively chill parent.. and I can't imagine raising a hand to my child. I'm not a parent though, so things may be different if my child does something *incredibly* wack and is in serious need of a smack upside the head.  An example of this.. at masjid a while back, I saw a nine or ten year old boy literally *spit* in his mothers face and call her a name.  (first thing I thought was, where else would he learn such behavior from but his father?)  That mother didn't hit her child, but I would have.  I don't think an appropriate response to that would be a "time out". anyway.. that's probably more than you wanted to know about me :) wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
BrKhalid
01/08/02 at 06:49:45
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]Personally, I would want to be a cool mom... [/quote] [quote]I think I'd be a relatively chill parent… [/quote] Hmmm….anyone else spot a similarity here? ;) But anyway since we're on the topic of parenting and discipline, what do people think about parents employing the "Good Cop, Bad Cop" routine? In effect, one parent is seen to be the disciplinarian and the other the more "chilled out, down to earth one". Or should both parents have the same attitudes when it comes to raising their child?

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kathy
01/08/02 at 09:50:51
[quote] .. at masjid a while back, I saw a nine or ten year old boy literally *spit* in his mothers face and call her a name.  (first thing I thought was, where else would he learn such behavior from but his father?)  That mother didn't hit her child, but I would have[/quote] Wow, did anyone ever hear the term- Dead Meat?
NS

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Ayla_A
01/08/02 at 11:51:47
[slm] About disciplining, I feel that every child (even in the same family) needs a different type of discipline. My son, spankings did not work, neither did putting him in the corner.  I finally found a good way to modify his behavior and life was much simpler.  For him it is telling him that I am disappointed in his behavior and telling him that he hurt my feelings by acting inappropriately. My concern is that I find at the masjid the kids are totally out of control!!!  Coming from a christian background to me this is no acceptable behavior at all.  Kids running through the salat area yelling and screaming, running between the parents almost causing a domino affect.   I always have a huge headache after potlucks at the masjid.  I put my son in a time out at the masjid once because he was getting out of control, many of the ladies said, that is enough, let him out now (I believe 1 minute for every year of age) and he still had like 6 minutes left!!! The masjid should be something to be respected and to be a place where children's behavior should be at their best.  There seems to be no difference between the cultures on this point either. Also I have to say that you cannot be your child's friend when they are growing up, they have to obey and respect you.  You will become friends with your children as they grow and become adults themselves. Just my canadian $0.02 which probably is not worth much [wlm] Ayla_A

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Anik
01/08/02 at 22:51:22
asalaamu alaikum, I was naughty sometimes, heck, I got hit with my toy batmobile once By sparing the rod on your kids, your not really doing them a favour I find if silent treatment is given to a teenager, they rebel back by increasing it often Arsalan, our spanking situations are exactly the same- mom-> face dad-> hard on the back lol :) my mum slapped me once while I was driving... actually more than once... I didn't know what the heck to do... run? stop on a left turn? she used to do that when I first started driving and tried to be cool with my driving styles lol. I believe hitting a child is good, but with moderation... and don't get angry that's really tough to do, but make sure you're not angry while doing it... parents even tend to keep spanking or yelling real loud and that seems like aggression rather than corrective action. asalaamu alaikum. abdullah,.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Arsalan
01/08/02 at 23:54:24
[slm] [url=http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b2505.html]Parenting in the West[/url] Parents should check out this book.  It gives some good hints for Muslims to raise their children in an environment which is conducive to virtually everything that is unIslamic!  It's written by an author who is an expert in this field and has given talks about this topic in many conferences in the US and Canada. Wassalamu alaikum.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
eleanor
01/09/02 at 06:48:08
slm Wow, this thread is certainly interesting! I can only ever remember getting slapped once by my father and twice by my mother. The once I got slapped by my Dad was when I was misbehaving and he put me out of the room. so I stood outside the door, hurling abuse in at them and then he opened the door and slapped my (bare) legs and then just shut the door again :) I was about four at the time. With my mother I was older. Once I wouldn't came in from playing or something and she came out and cuffed me around the ear, and another time, she tried to put me over her knee!! ;-D I think I managed to scramble away before she had time to hit me though. Dad just getting angry was enough to make me shut up usually, and Mam getting upset. My big brother got it good off them though. I remember my Dad literally beating him around the room, and another time my mother got me to go out and cut a stick so she could beat him! :o She bluffed though, and just held the stick menacingly all evening ;-D I personally won't have anything against giving my kids the odd slap. On the legs or on the back of their hand. But never beating! Mind you, I think it depends enormously on the child, whether it gets that far or not. Some kids just don't know when to stop. You can't treat all kids the same. For one, a slap is the end of the world, wher for another you could be more severe and they'll still do the same thing the next day. Hmmm.. pretty complicated stuff... I think it's easier if I be the pacifier and leave the discipline up to my husband :) wasalaam eleanor ps: oh yes, and I definitely heard that slapping in the face is haraam!

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
tq
01/09/02 at 09:57:39
Assalamo elikuim Well I want to say one thing that just because my mother hit me when I was a child doesn’t mean that she was/is “uncool “. I think my mother was/is pretty cool – we did lot of things together – shopping, movies, she used to stich clothes in just hours for me or my sister if we wanted to wear something new to a party. I was and still can talk to my parents about anything (now even my husband talk/discuss anything with  them :) I keep telling him that hey these are my parents and I have more rigths :)) In my opnion hitting a child when needed doesn’t make  parents “Un-Cool”:) Wasalam tq

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
*sofia*
01/09/02 at 10:42:09
Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah, This may have already been posted somewhere on the board, but Witness Pioneer offers free internet courses.  They're currently offering, "Islamic Perspective on Parenting."  A friend who has taken other Witness Pioneer courses recommends their classes. Title: Registration started for NEW Course Body: Insha'Allah Darul Albaab will begin the new course on "Islamic Perspective of Parenting" on February 4th, 2002. The Registration is already underway starting December 20th and ending on January 15th. Please visit the School section to Register. Expires: 1/15/2002 http://www.witness-pioneer.org/
NS

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
se7en
01/10/02 at 02:36:02
as salaamu alaykum, [quote]In effect, one parent is seen to be the disciplinarian and the other the more "chilled out, down to earth one". Or should both parents have the same attitudes when it comes to raising their child?[/quote] Hmm. I know a lot of 'traditional' desi fathers consider their parental duty to be limited to being the breadwinner and disciplinarian of the family, and not much more than that. They don't really have a close, emotional relationship with their children, and I really think this has a detrimental affect on them.  InshaAllah when I have a family, I'd like for pops to be really involved in his kids lives. [quote]Parenting in the West [/quote] The daughter of the couple that wrote this book was my roommate at a retreat I attended =) I'd definitely take their advice considering how well their daughter turned out ;) (mashaAllah :P) hehe.. wasalaam :)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
BroHanif
01/09/02 at 15:50:59
AWW, [quote]I just can't imagine either of you being naughty enough to get a spanking when you were little  :O and here I thought you two were so nice and wise and all[/quote] Hey who's said we've grown up at all, we still need our mothers and fathers to guide us, just as we need our friends over here. All humans are learners for life, as perfection is only for Allah. [quote]we both had to stand facing the wall, and then while holding onto our earlobes we had to do squats, like 100x..I will not fight with my brother/sister.."[/quote] You think thats crazy, I had to do that at mosque, man it was weird. The funny thing was that, if you do squats your legs become physcially very fit. And what really got to me at that young age of ten was why are these kids doing 200 earlobe squats a day so good in footbal and fighting.   Another punishment we had to take was to take a stance like a chair against the wall, do that for ten minutes. However, the famous one was taking a pen and placing it interlocking it with ones fingers. Once the pen was in place the molvi would apply a little pressure, man it ached. Now don't you try this on your kids  at home, its only for kids with real naughty xperince and in a safe environment. Salaams Hanif

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
bhaloo
01/10/02 at 01:12:29
slm [quote]You think thats crazy, I had to do that at mosque, man it was weird. [/quote] Bro. Hanif do yo still do it? ;)  Get in trouble lately? ??? [quote] Another punishment we had to take was to take a stance like a chair against the wall, do that for ten minutes. However, the famous one was taking a pen and placing it interlocking it with ones fingers. Once the pen was in place the molvi would apply a little pressure, man it ached. [/quote] My dad used to tell me in some of his classes the teacher would take out a stick and try and hit his hand.  Arsalan and Asim have probably experienced this, right guys? :)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Arsalan
01/10/02 at 01:41:59
[slm] [quote]My dad used to tell me in some of his classes the teacher would take out a stick and try and hit his hand.  Arsalan and Asim have probably experienced this, right guys? :) [/quote]Please don't remind me!!!

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
gift
01/10/02 at 06:39:23
[slm] [quote]i would first get *the look* form my mother [/quote] oh yes i got this one from my mother as well - it was like a slap with her eyes ;) - i swear she had eyes in the back of her head :) [quote]My mom used to threaten to hit me with the jarru [/quote] really - mine used to threaten me with the belna (rolling pin) or tavva (frying pan to make chapatti's on) :( i had the silent treatment once as well - it was awful :( :(  i think it really was worse than a spank. mostly these punishments were for arguing back to my mum - i sure learnt my lesson - i'm a good girl now :-) (in my old age ;) ) [wlm]

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
amal
01/10/02 at 13:18:17
slm, [quote]the funny thing is that she would reach for the first thing that was closest to her[/quote] Oooooh yeaah!! The tornado treatment!! objects flying all over the place...yup! that sounds *very* familiar to me :) [quote] My dad used to tell me in some of his classes the teacher would take out a stick and try and hit his hand.  Arsalan and Asim have probably experienced this, right guys? [/quote] I remember this one time in 3rd grade, the teacher had stepped outside for a moment and some students sneaked out behind him and left the classroom. So like the kids that we were, we decided to tease them a little. We closed the door so that they couldn't get in and they kept banging on it. Well it turns that it was the teacher on the other side of the door...boy did we get a punishment for that...the guy beat us with something like a chair leg...i went home with swollen purple hands! ):(

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
gift
01/11/02 at 04:16:39
[slm] [quote] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In effect, one parent is seen to be the disciplinarian and the other the more "chilled out, down to earth one". Or should both parents have the same attitudes when it comes to raising their child? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm. I know a lot of 'traditional' desi fathers consider their parental duty to be limited to being the breadwinner and disciplinarian of the family, and not much more than that. They don't really have a close, emotional relationship with their children, and I really think this has a detrimental affect on them.  InshaAllah when I have a family, I'd like for pops to be really involved in his kids lives. [/quote] subhanallah my dad doesn't live up to this desi norm - he's the chilled one that i go to with my problems rather than my mum - its always been like that since i was a little girl.  i used to make him take me everywhere with him :) i'd really like my husband to be involved as well - especially in forming the sort of close relationship that my dad has with me and my siblings [wlm]

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Rehana
01/11/02 at 10:17:37
[slm]:-) [quote]what do people think about parents employing the "Good Cop, Bad Cop" routine? In effect, one parent is seen to be the disciplinarian and the other the more "chilled out, down to earth one". Or should both parents have the same attitudes when it comes to raising their child? [/quote] It is extremely important for BOTH the parents to show a united front when it comes to disciplining a child. With the 'good cop - bad cop' routine your kid will not take the 'bad-cop' parent seriously.  This coud be detrimental to any discipline you might want to instill in your child as the child may even begin to resent the 'bad-cop' parent. [slm] :-)

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
MentallectCom
01/23/02 at 01:30:01
Man, I WISH my mom spanked me. She was far too creative. Oh, spanking would've been a blessing. My beloved Umi has a wasp tongue. She'd tear me down with it. No profane language, no yelling. Try being 10 years old slumping under a looming, intimidating, eloquent tongued woman who'd calmly explain to you that you are a petty little liar and are so untrust worthy that you should be watched over like a 5 year old. And then when that horrible event was over, she'd wait until you wanted to do something really badly and say: Oh, well you want to go to Disney World? Sorry, Mickey doesn't like little liars. And LEAVE ME HOME! *Runs off crying*

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Caraj
01/23/02 at 02:05:54
I remember being so angry at my sons one day and also at their Dad for not helping me disapline them . I told their Dad he needed to take action and that I was to angry to disaplin and was tired of being the bad guy. He proceeded into the boys bedroom and closed the door. I could hear him telling them he was whipping them and to lean over. Next thing I hear is the sound of belt and the boys both screaming and yelling to please stop. Guilt overwelmed me and I couldn't understand why their father kept whipping them and wouldn't stop. I finally could not take it any longer and rushed into the room. To see those three turkey's looking up and smiling at me as their father was whipping the mattress (not them)while they yelled and screamed to make it sound real.  :O I was so relieved yet didn't know if I should hug them  or take the belt to all three of them. ;-D

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kathy
01/23/02 at 09:13:07
slm Cara- too funny- phew.... Being a parent is hard. Disciplining is hard. It is easy not to do it. This may be the problem with some of the kids today. Last Eid- I needed to have a strong word, with the 'look' with my son- he was horsing around the mosque with the other kids. One of the Mom's gave me the evil eye and in Arabic said to the woman next to me- that I was wrong to scold my son- it was Eid. Can you guess whoes children continued to act like animals? It is much easier to ignore their bad behavior... the hard thing to do is to discipline!

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
tq
01/23/02 at 09:30:18
Assalamo elikuim "It is much easier to ignore their bad behavior... the hard thing to do is to discipline! " Very well said Kathy. It is definitely hard being a parent, the only consolation is that one day the kids will have their own kids and then they will know.  Now I know why grandparents love grandchildren more than their own kids :). Wasalam Tamseel

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kathy
01/25/02 at 11:59:39
slm Proud Mama Moment: Yesterday I went to my son's school to volunteer. I was so dismayed to see that the children's seating had been rearranged. Ali was now sitting to one of the worst behaved students. Later in the day I mentioned the seat changes. The teacher asked me if I noticed where Ali was sitting now. (Yikes- no kidding!) She told me that she has tried every method, allowed, to discipline this boy. Finally she thinks that by sitting next to Ali, Ali would be a positive influence. Yes- Of all the kids- she picked the Muslim! hmm.. I wonder if she realized that?

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
amal
01/25/02 at 12:09:59
slm, Sr. Kathy that is soo cute, Mash'Allah. A good example is the best da'wah.Go Ali! Have you considered authoring a book on parenting in the west? I'm sure it would be a best seller :) May Allah[swt] reward you for all the effort you put in raising your child as a good upright muslim.Ameen.

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kathy
01/25/02 at 20:47:22
[quote] Have you considered authoring a book on parenting in the west? I'm sure it would be a best seller [/quote] Thanks for the kind words! Let's see what kind of husband and father he turns out to be.... and what path he chooses to take.... Maybe then...

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
amal
01/25/02 at 23:50:10
slm, [quote] Let's see what kind of husband and father he turns out to be.... and what path he chooses to take.... [/quote] Insh'Allah he will turn out to be a fine rightous muslim man full of rahmah! I was wondering...what type of tarbiya do you follow? I don't like beating at all! if you read my previous post on the subject you'll understand why :) but i also realise there must be some form of discipline so how do you balance that with the need for the child to be loved? And how do you present islam to him so that he grows up loving it instead of regarding it as merely a set of rules to be followed out of obligation! Just curious...

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Kathy
01/29/02 at 09:58:16
[quote] I was wondering...what type of tarbiya do you follow? [/quote] I have not had any serious Islamic education, especially not to decide what school of thought to follow- and not to sure that I would want to. (says Kathy- knowing she is opening a can of worms) [quote]I don't like beating at all! [/quote] Me Either! I would never do it. Ali is a very good kid- yet, about every 6 months needs an attitude adjustment.- Sometimes the eye stare, counting to three,the holding hand squish, the time out chair, the take away toys or friends does not work. I am talking about two swats on the fanny. Never a red mark- i think just the tought of it scares him straight! I also never ever do it when i am angry. [quote]so how do you balance that with the need for the child to be loved? [/quote] Ali gets hugs, smooches and loving glances as well as kind words every day. He knows he is loved and he knows when he is out of control. I think if a child is loved so much it balances out the spankings that happen a couple times a year. [quote]And how do you present islam to him so that he grows up loving it instead of regarding it as merely a set of rules to be followed out of obligation![/quote] By making Islam a way of life. By being an example. He sees me doing charity, volunteering, being kind, going to PTA, Dawah and Muslim Meetings. Like all Children- he watches me with eagle eyes and learns. Islam does have a set of rules. It is my job to help him learn that they are for our benefit. Some of the rules are tough. Just like learning the latest Karate move is tough. I teach him to be patient and persever. Islam should be followed as an obligation. An obligation to worship and please Allah swt. Sometimes doing an obligatory act is not "fun." Yet it is a necessity. Prayers are an obligation. Most 7 year olds don't want to stop playing to pray. But they have to. There are many things in life we have to do- might as well get used to it! I also try to make Islamic learning fun for him. During the month of Ramadan- we make a cave and do taraweeh prayers, Next month is Hajj- soon we will start building a lego Makkah! I read stories of the Prophets from Ibn Kathir- re-written at his level. Most of all he learns Islam by watching me- believe me- it is an awesome responsibility!

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
Seeker
01/29/02 at 22:54:09
[slm] Kathy can you raise my children?? ;) man, something I would value is a good muslim son! For me, it seems harder for guys to keep their iman especially in this country, than girls.. Starting a son off well is definately a big thing for me. I always say I don't want any boys (I have a brother that's right around the annoying age) but when I do see little boys that demonstrate haya and generosity at such early ages..masha'allah.  Insha'allah Allah will grant me with a good son. [wlm]

Re: Curious? How do Muslims feel about child rearing and disapline
amal
01/30/02 at 00:17:37
slm, [quote] I have not had any serious Islamic education, especially not to decide what school of thought to follow... [/quote] Actually i meant what type of tarbiya as in discipline-wise...You know...do use more of the carot or the stick? :) [quote] Most of all he learns Islam by watching me- believe me- it is an awesome responsibility! [/quote] I imagine it must be! It's somewhat scary to think that kids are like these huge sponges absorbing anything and everything they see or hear.They're also great hypocrasy radars, you can't tell them something and then not follow it yourself! But at the same time being a parent must be the most fulfilling profession in the world;investing in your child's upbringing. In a way you're educating yourself all over again. A relative of mine learnt so much about islam and arabic just by following her daughter's lessons at school and doing the homework with her. It sure takes dedication and loooooooooots of patience, not to mention imagination! Mash'Allah you're doing an awesome job with your son. I hope i can be like you someday :) May Allah[swt] show you the fruits of your efforts in the most beautiful manner.
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