Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| Rashid |
| 01/06/02 at 18:20:17 |
| [slm] Subhanaallah...what will they come up with next? [url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/06/tampa.crash/index.html[/url] [wlm] |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| Saleema |
| 01/06/02 at 18:25:51 |
| [slm] I don't get what you mean by that. It's just a story about a kid who crashes a plane in a building and who expressed sympathy with Osama. How does that explain the war on Islam? [wlm] |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| Rashid |
| 01/07/02 at 16:51:55 |
| [slm] Sr. Saleema: Because Usama is the scapegoat and the excuse for the war on Islam. USA military with all its latest technology and laser guided missiles and satellites and spies on the ground can't even find someone who is supposed to be hiding in some cave. Meanwhile, it is the Muslims who bear the brunt of "smart bombs" that somehow stray 20 miles off their target and destroy entire villages. Meanwhile, this 15 year old child supposedly gets inspired by 9-11 and crashes a plane into a bank building. Do you see where this is headed? "We have to continue bombing, now Usama is influencing young impressionable children to crash planes into buildings" [wlm] |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| ahmer |
| 01/08/02 at 01:36:10 |
| salams akhi.. but isn't this a very weak link to prove the premise? |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| akbalkhan |
| 01/08/02 at 09:12:29 |
| As Salamu Alaykum I too thought at first, awh, come on! But when I thought about what Rashid is saying a little further, not that you haven't, the media and the government working hand in hand need to muster public opinion in order to push through legislation that discriminates against Muslims. Without each common, family-having, working American, not visiting azzam.com, or ummahnews, getting very concerned and willing to go to relative extremes in their views of what they consider acceptable risks of loss of liberty in the way of said laws, the legislature would have its hands tied. I am not suggesting that the article is concocted, or that it is not news worthy, just that this is a situation where some people would like to place this kid on the same level, intelligence- wise, and dignity-wise, as Sheikh Usama, because of the plastic similarities of the acts. Seems to me like anyone who is in the state of depression and is as young as this kid was, there are a myriad unrelated motivations to prop up in place of plain old misguidance, fear of rejection, or parental influences -you know grasp on to those habits and people that your parents hate most. I was wondering if this topic was going to be raised.... Regards, QAK |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| ahmer |
| 01/08/02 at 12:51:50 |
| yep and it's really devilish why the media will never tell the "effects" of violent computer games and telvision programs on these kids, and learning from my friends who know this stuff, in a game called "Grand Auto Theft 3" , at the end players have to crash the airplane into a building!!! DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME, as my buddy tells me that it has got all imaginable forms of "haram"!! Interestingly after 9/11 stores pulled the game from "over the counter" to "prescription" status..:) btw.. i wrote a course paper on child violence last semester,i will put it up on a website soon insha'Allah..:) (got an A in it:)) wassalam ahmer |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| mujaahid |
| 01/08/02 at 13:40:38 |
| Assalaamu-alaikum I agree with Rashid. When i first heard of the plane crash on sat night, and heard it was a white american christian kid, i kind of smiled to myself, thinking, now how they gona blame muslims for this one. Maybe now we muslims will get a break from this suspiciosn, because even thier own has carried out a suicide attack. But then on sunday morning, i heard "boys leaves suicide note, saying he sympathised with bin laadin", and i thought to myself, "this is unreal! If bin laadin does it, blame him, if bin laadin dont do it, blame him, if bin laadin says what happened was america's fault, blame him, if binlaadin had absolutely nothing to do with it, still blame him!" What they gona blame him for next? The Bush fires in australia? Clintons pet dog being run over? I mean come on, can't they think of ANYTHING else apart from bin laadin as a scapegoat? If get get into trouble for this post, i'm blaming bin laddin. Wasalaam |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| kareema |
| 01/09/02 at 10:15:16 |
| Unfortunately there are a number of games like GTA3, a cargame like Carmaggedon gives you points and money for running people over! Now that's just tooo far! |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| mujaahid |
| 01/09/02 at 11:18:13 |
| Kareema what does the car car game have to do with this? |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| akbalkhan |
| 01/09/02 at 12:37:19 |
| Perhaps there is some kind of desensitisation agenda that the U.S. has been employing through the selected reprieve of censorship that allows animated violence in new video games. (absolutely directed at younger people and children) When you consider how many people who were children during WWII, and had fathers, brothers, uncles, never come home from war, or missing limbs, or when they heard of the stories of the war, they grew up to resent war and all the atrocities it brings. They and their children formed the Vietnam protests of the 60's and 70's. I believe the U.S. wised up in this area, hired a bunch of military based psychologists, and pushes ahead with these games that make those war images of the crosshairs of a bomber taking out structures in real life, appear like a video game screen, where it has these misguided, undeveloped, immature minds saying, 'Hmmm, I wonder how many people were killed, and how many points we just scored?' The games pose a greater risk only because of whose hands they are in and the little real guidance they stand to receive to balance such entertainment. Really, when these same kids playing these games are flying fighter jets 20 years from now, when they press a button on a joy stick like handle, 5 miles above the earth, are they going to be more likely to consider the health, after effects, families' sense of loss, and possibility of target 'intelligence' errors, before they give it a squeeze? I don't think so. What I do appreciate the irony of, is the way that Western society's dictates through puppet occupation or direct force to the rest of the world, what causes 'terrorist' aggressions, yet throught its own tendencies fosters within its own playgrounds kids with rifles, plans to bomb peers and teachers, and destructive tendencies towards those not of their culture, and when they get older, suits them and gives them free reign in ordering and carrying out possibly the long seeded desire to act out what appears to be being planned in the minds of what are described as 'normal' children and people otherwise. As Malcolm X so delicately put it, these are the chickens just coming home to roost. Regards, QAK |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| ahmer |
| 01/09/02 at 13:10:21 |
| the games have everything to do with the wild stuff kids do.. it's a different issue why media hides it ..but we have to keep our eyes open at least and not let our children fall into this gaming obsession |
| Games |
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| BroHanif |
| 01/09/02 at 15:18:52 |
| AWW, Well since I'm a big gamer, I take a different view, nobody in the right mind is going to fly a 20 million pound jet fighter into a plane. You simply can't just say lets take away the electronice games from the kids, oh I forgot lets also take the plastic toy guns and swords away from em and oh yes lets take away 'Action Man' as well. Better still lets just give the kids cotton wool to play with and that will bread them into sound intellects in the years to come. I don't think so. I myself have played many games and enjoyed them, I haven't turned into a person who would love to kill and impale people. Salaams Hanif |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| Saleema |
| 01/09/02 at 20:11:25 |
| [slm] BroHanif, so you turned out to be a healthy kid raised in a healthy environment. You have Islam. Millions of kids don't have all that you did (and do) and it's those people that won't mind the killing. Ture, millions of non-Muslims kids turn out to be ok too. But it doen't take a million kids to blame an attack on Osama, it just takes 1 15 year old kid. Televised violence and soft pornography (as opposed to hard) does have affect on people, and so do games. It of course varies in intensity. [wlm] |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| ahmer |
| 01/10/02 at 01:52:27 |
| [slm] bro... you might not have experienced the same set of problems due to a good family, knowledge of islam, parents and other issues. But when you come to think of isolated children, broken families, hostile school environment, the problem is far worse. There have been well documented studies showing this real menace sweeping among the children here. I absolutely agree that not every child who is a gamer is also a potential criminal, but access to despicably violent computer games does have an egregious effect on children. No wonder that in one of the child shooting cases, the 12 year old killer child had such a perfect aim that he used 4 bullets exactly to kill 4 fellow children and he never used an actual gun in life. The cops later discovered that he played a computer game where he perfected his shooting skills. And there are numerous other effects which require an exhaustive study much of which has been proved and written about, but the entertainment industry has a big stake in this, so they never let this appear in the mainstream media. I would definitely recommend reading, "A is for Ox", a brilliant book by Barry Sanders that can tell you a lot. btw here is the link of the paper i did for my course this past semester...(got an A in it:)) i hope it can help you some of the things. [url]http://web.njit.edu/~isa/school_violence.doc[/url] Personally Insha'Allah I would never want my children to waste time in front of these games, and i always lecture my sis' kids not to play these games, alhumdolillah they listened and are still listening to me and u cant imagine but masha'Allah there is a world of difference between them and other muslim children (!!no bias but really i can see the difference when i teach them all at the sunday school alhumdolillah) ofcourse it requires time from family and parents but it's a good tradeoff!! [wlm] ahmer |
| Re: For those who say it is not a war against Islam |
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| Sonny |
| 01/12/02 at 23:49:38 |
| The debate over the safety and validity of electronic games has been going on since the advent of pac-man over twenty years ago--and I think it will never be resolved precisely because there are so many good kids like BroHaniff whose morality stands firm in the face of the development of keen reactive potential--which seems to be the apparent goal of the game market. I think, to get back to Bro Rashids point, the publication of the news of this young mans death represents a problem we have yet to deal with, an emergent detail of the information society--I'ld call it fabrication, I guess, for lack of a better term. In other words, much of the war is being waged through the media, in what appears to be a real battle for the hearts and minds of the public--a spiritual battle, if you put it into lofty language--or a battle of the BS 'ers--and that's not for Bachelor of Science! (Wait--maybe I'm on to some thing here! j/k) I think the problem could be defined as to what limits, if any, apply to the free speech ammendment of the American constitution? How sensational can we make the news, and call it news, and not entertainment? How many little white lies can people tell without becoming out and out liars? If the press is the watchdog of the American public, who watches the press and can require accountability? At what point are the favorite anchormen more like movie stars than reliable sources of information--you know, where do we draw the line? And with the internet, the problem is magnified on a radical scale--people debating their own viewpoints without access to truth--and the truth as it is defrayed among so many never seems to literally out, so it's anyones best guess what truth is in fair reporting. I guess that brings us together in a forum like this, where I think people are likely to search their hearts and their best hunches to find the Truth, and then argue down to the news from that vantage. But it's the free speech issue. The crashed plane was the last sad note of pathos after the drama of the 11th, almost climed to wring the last pale tear from every grieving heart. Timely. And when you were kids, did you ever embellish the truth? Not really lie, of course not, but add--colour? And the news--it is a paid for service--it's not free...every person involved in it's production gets paid for their service and...? So what if the war is dull and again...it is being paid for--you know what I mean. Product and sales pitch are one. But it's not just a problem of one individual group--I mean you can't single out Christians, or blacks, or crypts, you know even muslims have an outlook--sometimes very persecutory ..of kuffir for example, as you might have noticed in Rashids article I think "hating the Jews" and in that framework the truth can be streched, bent, leaned on, until some script says what one wants it to say--but everyone does it!!! So then we get down to the psychology of our own life's Script: the assumptions we take for granted until someone challenges them. Those words we believe that go on remote to an automatic rendition of what the world means to us so that we can go on living without too many disturbing questions--the automatic functions that protect us from life while we live here. Oh well--that's the easy life. If I knew how it worked I'ld be there. Finally, to close, I disagree with Rashid. I don't think it's a war on Islam--I think it's a family quarrell of some kind--maybe a couple of families got into it and everyone got caught in the crossfire. Crypts and queers, that sort of thing. Anyhow I'm keeping my eye on the new educational agenda. Having surprised myself with insight into the BS of the war campaign I am watching the educational agenda of the Pres. and I expect great things. Propaganda is the biggest weapon against illiteracy in all fields of endeavor, I am curious how it will be applied in our efforts to improove education in America. Right now the wags are wagging tounges at the educational agenda--that's my baby--What will they think of next!--Sonny :) |
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