Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| why women are converting |
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| amatullah |
| 01/08/02 at 00:00:24 |
| Bismillah and salam, I thought i would post this after reading in the ummah folder that many are converting. I found this in a site i came across for the first time today: sultan.org which has many free da3wa material and online books,etc Please check it out. Why are so many Women converting to Islam ? According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%. In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why? It is Clear why Christians are converting. 1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html 2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html 3. Jesus is a Muslim: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ? Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research. 1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25} 2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49} 3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1} 4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The Koran does Not have Biblical double standards { Qur'an 30:21} 5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects All. 6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3} In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the Wife's permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman the Right to Choose who to Marry. 7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30} One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life with the man who Raped You. The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)". Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim? 8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link below. 9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a 100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago. 10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them the human right to reach for the sky. There have been Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries, but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming Presidents in predominately Christian countries, while the Muslim countries have voted for and elected Female Presidents. Here is a list of previous Female Muslim leaders: Khadija bint Khuwaylid Aishah bint Abu Bakr Fatimah bint Muhammad Barakah Ramlah bint Abu Sufyan Rumaysa bint Milhan Umm Salamah Asma bint Abu Bakr Zaynab al-Ghazali Maryum Jameelah The comparison goes on and on, to hear from some of these Converts, including Nuns, and Many Famous People, visit here; http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/ |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| Kashif |
| 01/08/02 at 05:14:22 |
| assalaamu alaikum #9 & #10 seem a bit odd. Also, that list of female Muslim leaders seems a bit suspicious... Zaynab al-Ghazali? What did she head up? Kashif Wa Salaam |
| NS |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| Barr |
| 01/08/02 at 07:33:24 |
| Assalamu'alaikum :-) [quote]Zaynab al-Ghazali? What did she head up? [/quote] * When she was 20, she formed and led a Muslim Women Org. (a charity group). *Led the Women's Wing of the Ikhwanul Muslimun in Egypt in the 40s. *Played a major role in the Islamic movement in Egypt *Arrested by the Nasir's regime, accused, arrested, prisoned and tortured. What a lady, mashaAllah :-) |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| Dawn |
| 01/10/02 at 11:47:21 |
| I suppose there is nothing like plunging in for your first post. I have been a “lurker” for five or six weeks now, after having found the site from a Google search (on cross-cultural marriages, I think). I found the posts so interesting and the people so sincere that I decided to hang around for a while, and have been lurking ever since. After debating with myself for several days whether or not to respond to this thread, I finally decided in favor of doing so with the reasoning that the increase of knowledge can only help dissipate misunderstanding. I think the general conclusion given, that people of Christian background, and women in particular, are converting to Islam because of lacks found in the faith of their birth, is true. I don't think the support given, however, is quite as relevant. Here is why. [quote]It is Clear why Christians are converting. 1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God... 2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions... [/quote] Just a bit of clarification here. I think what was meant in 1 was Christian scientists, and not Christian Scientists. The former are simply scientists who adhere to the Christian faith. The latter are a particular branch of Christianity, which, for better or worse, are not considered by orthodox Christianity, to be truly Christian. (Personally, I vote for the "for worse" on this one.) As for 2, this is nothing new. The Roman Catholic church has been battling this one for centuries. Far too many honest and searching monks, scientists, etc. have had to stifle their free thought because of censorship of the most extreme kind (death). [quote] The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ? Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research. [/quote] I think this is quite definitely true. It has certainly been my experience growing up, and later as a searching adult, that the majority of my fellow searchers were women. Why that is, I don't know. (There is even an old German cliché which said something to the effect that a woman had as primary domains the three K's; Kueche, Kinder, Kirche (kitchen, children, church), so this is nothing new!) However, the Bible verses quoted in the first post as explaining the above phenomenon, would not be considered by the vast majority of Christians today as being relevant in their consideration of converting or not. For example, since most Christians consider that Jesus sacrifice did away with the "old" law and covenant, and replaced it with a "new" one, namely his teaching (and this is a gross generalization -- there are plenty of points for Christians to disagree amongst themselves here), most Old Testament verses, like those used in points 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7, would pose no issue. However, for 1, the verses in the New Testament (1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.) could be substituted for Genesis 2:4-3:24. For points 3, 4, 8, and revised 1, most Christians today (this could probably not have been said a few hundred years ago) tend to de-emphasize these verses as being culturally influenced. The freedom to do this within modern Christianity derives from the change of emphasis on how the Bible was obtained. It is no longer widely accepted that the Bible was, essentially, dictated by God. As soon as the human element is allowed to exist, the interaction of culture is viewed as inevitable. (This is sort of "moderate" Christian thought. Christian Fundamentalists still cling to literal interpretations while many Christian Liberals are prepared to write off most of the Bible as human created fiction.) Also, one can find, within the New Testament, examples of women leading churches, preaching, etc., which would contradict the ultimatum given in 3. And, as a side note for the verses quoted in 8, the use of head covering is required only when she prays or prophesies (preaches in modern terms). In summary, the verse which seems to be quoted most often regarding the status of women in Christianity today is Galatians 3:28. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." This being said, I think the real reason that people are converting (or reverting) is that they are attracted by the relative simplicity of the theology of Islam as compared to Christianity. That is, there is no paradoxical Trinity, no difficult concept of the necessity of blood atonement, no need to believe in the simultaneous humanity/divinity of Jesus, etc. These are concepts which are either not present, except by indirect implication, in the New Testament, or about which conflicting statements exist. And it is issues such as these, which have caused many a thinking person to reconsider their faith. I hope I haven't been too nit-picky here. I just wanted to hopefully clarify where some of these converts are probably coming from. (Hopefully, my future posts won't be so lengthy!) Dawn P.S. Just by way of background, I was raised in a conservative protestant Christian church, and after many years of questioning finally realized that I just couldn't believe all that orthodox Christianity required of me. So, I still consider myself Christian in the general sense(a follower of Jesus of Nazareth) though not in an orthodox sense, and I remain a seeker of Truth, wherever I may find it. |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| amal |
| 01/10/02 at 12:20:04 |
| slm, Interesting post Dawn. I agree with you that the concept of God and the nature of sin and salvation in islam is propably what attracts people to it more than anything else. As for why more women are converting more than men,i don't know...i cannot say women are more spiritual than men ... but ...perhaps... they tend to be more willing to have an open mind about things and consider different points of view.What was that joke about women constantly changing their minds? :) Anyways,welcome to the Madina community. It's a great place and i hope you enjoy it :) peace, Amal |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| kiwi25 |
| 01/10/02 at 14:00:48 |
| salam, Allahu alim, but maybe there are more women converting to islam then men because as one of the signs of the day of judgement, there will be more women then men in this world..... so maybe the same percentage of women and of men are converting, its justs seems to be more women cause there are more women on earth? do people get me on this? wasalam nouha:) |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| bhaloo |
| 01/10/02 at 16:07:10 |
| slm Welcome to the board Dawn, enjoy your stay, insha'Allah. :) And feel free to ask questions. [quote]but maybe there are more women converting to islam then men because as one of the signs of the day of judgement, there will be more women then men in this world..... [/quote] Huh? ??? Even if all the women in the world converted, the total number of women will be the same. Weather they convert or don't convert, doesn't change the number of women in the world. As to the hadith you are alluding to, there are certainly a lot of wars happening in the world, where many men have lost their lives, and in general, statistically more girls are born then boys, and that number is going up. [quote] do people get me on this? [/quote] No. :) |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| eleanor |
| 01/10/02 at 16:44:15 |
| slm Welcome to the board Dawn:) And thanks for the original post amatullah :) Well said Dawn, you've put a lot of things coherently that I couldn't seem to get together in my head. Why Christianity is wrong and Islam is right is not as simple and as clear cut as many Muslims would imagine it to be. For us as Muslims it's as clear as day that Jesus, peace be upon him, was a prophet and that Muhammad, pbuh, had the Qur'an divinely revealed upon him. It just seems incredible that a sane and logical person could even consider otherwise. I tend to agree with you that the simplicity and logic of Islam is probably what is most appealing to a non-Muslim. Not the fact that women have all these rights and therefore if I become Muslim I will have these rights too. For the most part, in the Western world, non-Muslim women generally have all the rights at this stage anyway so that's nothing new to them. I'm not too sure exactly what my point is here. Maybe just that here in our Madinat world dawah always seems so easy yet when faced in the real world with a loyal Christian, then it's pretty hard to carry out. It's easier with an aethiest. When they say "There is no God" then you can congratulate them on reciting the first part of the Islamic kalima "La illaha.." and then work on getting them to say the rest "except Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger" - "illa Allah, wa Muhammadan Rasulullah". wasalaam eleanor ps: I nicked the bit above about the aethiest from a programme I saw today on ARY with Dr. Zaheer Naik. Anyone else ever hear of him? He impressed me somewhat apart from all his videos with his photo on the front ;) |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| Anik |
| 01/10/02 at 16:59:56 |
| asalaamu alaikum, I think I understand what the sister was saying, she just swiched around the argument maybe by posing the argument first and the condition after... she is saying, she feels that since in some places women outnumber men, and generally slightly do anyways, that the end of the world may be near as per the Signs of the Last Day Thus, IF the same percentage of men and women converted, naturally there would be more women converting as their pool is larger than the mens population pool. That is, IF people converted as percentages... But if they convertd in the same number, it would actually be that women convert in LESS percentage than men and therefore do not grow as much. There may be factors we have not considered, practical ones such as increased immigrant population (causing "marital converts" who often end up accepting Islam), increased violence against women (which leads women to search for inner peace perhaps) and so on. In the end, no matter what the duniya reason is, its because Allah SWT wills it to be so. aslaamu alaikum. abdullah,. |
| NS |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| kiwi25 |
| 01/10/02 at 19:52:22 |
| salam bhaloo -- sorry you didnt undeerstand, i should have been more clearer, i wrote after a long nap..... :) but i guess anik understood me... thank you :) wasalam nouha:) |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| zanfaz |
| 01/10/02 at 22:59:48 |
| [slm] [quote]ps: I nicked the bit above about the aethiest from a programme I saw today on ARY with Dr. Zaheer Naik. Anyone else ever hear of him? [/quote] Sr. Eleanor, it's Dr. Zakir Naik. He's an inter-religion expert. He conducts debates with scholars of other faith's regularly. There are lot of video cassettes available of him. He heads the Islamic Research Foundation. Check out his website [url]http://www.irf.net[/url] |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| amatullah |
| 01/10/02 at 23:16:07 |
| Bismillah and salam, sister Eleanor, baraka Allahu feeki. Welcome Dawn and thank you for what you wrote. It makes alot of sense and in fact I have come across this in real life situations where talking for example i think the last time about drinking and the bible where I realized that the old testament where it was prohibited doesn't really hold the same truth to the average Christian as the new testament. Anyhow, if you research it you will find errors/contradictions in the new testament as well. This is one site (non-muslims) which has some thoughts on the topic http://www.2think.org/hii/matt_err.shtml As a muslim we also believe the sayedna Isa (Jesus) came to correct what the people have done with the book they had changed it. And to give gladtidings of the last prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is mentioned as Ahmad. But then the problem is that the book was changed again by people. and people are not perfect and so you cannot follow what they prescribe as law. I agree with what you said about women being seekers of Truth. I would add that we trust our intuition alot more. I believe we are more inclined to follow what is natural because we have the blessing of child-birth and rearing. ( i don't have any adilla, proofs, of this from the quran or sunnah but i would like to research it one day insha'Allah but i can see it in daily life men more likely to commit adultry, homosexuality,etc). Fitra is our genuine nature, permeated by divinity when Allah purifies the soul. I think women miss fitra when it is corrupted alot mroe than men do. Most of my sisters who reverted have mentioned that the concept of trinity is what mainly confused them about their old faith. It made no sense to one who said to me if all three parts make the whole and all exist always with each other what happened to the other two when the son manifestation died? did the other two die as well? who ran the world for the (i think she said three days?) that they were dead? I think the second most reason i heard of is something that has to do with women's status in islam. But perhpas it is because i have only spoken with women who are reverts. But even when you read stories you never hear men talking about their special elevation in islam but these new sisters do. I think once women become interested in Islam its comprehensive logic and knowing Allah they are attracted to the postition we hold in it. The honor, and humbleness. The balance. The last woman i know who reverted was impressed with the dignity and protection that is provided for women when surrounded in Islamic community/family,etc. Allah knows best what moves others souls to be guided to the Truth. |
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| Dawn |
| 01/11/02 at 05:27:27 |
[quote]Welcome Dawn and thank you for what you wrote. It makes alot of sense and in fact I have come across this in real life situations where talking for example i think the last time about drinking and the bible where I realized that the old testament where it was prohibited doesn't really hold the same truth to the average Christian as the new testament. Anyhow, if you research it you will find errors/contradictions in the new testament as well. This is one site (non-muslims) which has some thoughts on the topic http://www.2think.org/hii/matt_err.shtml [/quote] Thank you all for your welcome. I think that the errors/contradictions just touch the tip of the iceberg as far as the New Testament is concerned. Before you get that far, you have to consider when the New Testament was compiled, early church history, the supposed authors, when they wrote, what was added in/changed later, by (hopefully) well-meaning, scribes and translators, etc. Thousands of books have been written by scholars on the search for the historical Jesus, alone. The trouble about talking about this with your typical, loyal Christian, I have found, is twofold. First, they have never heard of most of these developments. Second, they don't particularly care. As for the first, it should be no suprise, really, as most people have more pressing concerns to worry about first, like paying bills, especially when combined with the second reason. As for the second, they are happy where they are, spiritually, perhaps even deeply convinced they are right. So, even if they were to learn something threatening, they will either disbelieve it (after all, which Bible scholar is going to posit that he/she is 100% certain of these things), or think that it doesn't matter anyway, as they are content with things as they are, right or wrong. I struggled with this reaction for a long time, myself, as I tried to engage people in conversation about the problems I had found, and I finally came to the conclusion (right or wrong) that if people have found something that really works for them, then it is right for them, even if it factually isn't correct, and even if it doesn't work for me. (Did I, a mere human, dare to intervene in what brought people closer to God? That is God's domain, not mine, and that's good, 'cause God is a lot more qualified there. :) ) Just my opinion right now. And my opinion, I have found, changes as I learn more. Dawn |
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| BrKhalid |
| 01/11/02 at 05:51:03 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]This being said, I think the real reason that people are converting (or reverting) is that they are attracted by the relative simplicity of the theology of Islam as compared to Christianity[/quote] But why are more women attracted to Islam as compared to men? It's certainly an intriguing question. |
| Re: why women are converting |
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| eleanor |
| 01/11/02 at 06:00:02 |
| slm I just thought of something.. The rights of women in Islam *do* have something to do with it. Before I became Muslim, I was totally against Islam because of the oppression of women and the male elitism that I thought was an inherent part of Islam. I had no probs whatsoever with the theology of Jesus and Muhammad. I always thought the Trinity was a bit shaky anyway. So, when I found out that in fact women in Islam are guaranteed so many rights, it left no more obstacles in the way for me to become Muslim. So in a way I didn't convert in order to *acquire* these rights, for I had most of them already, but rather knowing that they existed helped me to feel more secure in becoming a Muslimah. Does this make sense to anybody? As to why more women convert than men.. I think maybe women are more open to change and adjustment than men. I think once men have more or less a fixed idea in their head of what they believe in, then they are unwilling to back down. *speaking generally here..!!* Or as brother Jehad said a while ago, one man can have four wives in Islam. therefore it fits perfectly that for every male convert there are four females!! ;-D wasalaam eleanor |
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| Marcie |
| 01/11/02 at 07:28:05 |
| As salamu alaykum, In my experience most females, although not all that revert, have had some type of contact with Muslim males, either through marriage or some other way. Masha'Allah I have had friends who are married to Muslims that don't really practice. They start becoming interested in Islam and revert. Subhana Allah before you know it the husbands start practicing again too. Just my observations. As salamu alaykum Marcie |
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| mujaahid |
| 01/11/02 at 07:51:52 |
| Assalaamu alaikum. I think most women convert because of men. Not all, i personally know of several who simply converted for the sake of islaam and islaam only. But the majority convert because of some form of contact they have had with muslim males. |
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| Marcie |
| 01/11/02 at 13:56:05 |
| As salamu alaykum, It is not that a woman converts because of a man, but that is her introduction to Islam. Sometimes this introduction is more cultural, but that does not matter, because the interest in Islam has been awakened As salamu alaykum Marcie |
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| eleanor |
| 01/11/02 at 16:13:35 |
| slm Whatever the reason is, Allah knows it, because this I think is one of the big reasons why a Muslimah cannot marry a non-Muslim. I think women tend to be swayed more by their husband's opinion, for whatever reason. It's hard to imagine a man converting to his wife's religion. I even heard of a Saudi woman who (astafirullah) married a Christian and converted to Christianity!! :O Â So it does happen. And it's a definite about the non-practising husbands. I live with the proof! :) Alhamdulillah :) It may be that some women convert for their husband's sake, but Alhamdulillah, I can safely say I converted for Allah and Allah alone. If I converted for my husband I wouldn't have taken five years to do it, considering my husband was telling me from Day One he'd love it if I became Muslim, for my own sake and not his. :) wasalaam eleanor |
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| kiwi25 |
| 01/12/02 at 14:53:26 |
| salam, actually the saddest case is when born muslim men and women have the same case mujahid mentioned above, anyway isnt there a similar thread going on in the ikhwan cafe about this..... wasalam nouha:) |
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| Sparrow |
| 01/13/02 at 18:14:23 |
| If I had to guess I would say non-Muslim women are indeed attracted to the simplicity of Islam and also to the clear manner in which is talks about what it means to be a woman. I think a lot of women are confused by the myriad of social/media messages swirling about their heads. From what I have seen and read Islam pretty much cuts through all that and provides clear guidelines for women (men too, of course, but we're talkin about the girls here.) :) At least, that's what I like about it. Peace, Sparrow |
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| MentallectCom |
| 01/23/02 at 01:42:42 |
| I found that whole rape thing incredibly disconcerting. Even for Christianity. So I looked up the verses myself because I generally don't like when people summarize a verse and not quote it verbatim, as it may be taken out of context. I looked up Deuteronomy, chapter 22: 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. 22:30 A man shall not take his father's wife, nor discover his father's skirt. Now I'm not exactly sure what 'lay hold on her' means, perhaps that means rape. I'd like an english reference that indicates that means rape if anyone has by any chance? |
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