Allah is above emotions but...

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Allah is above emotions but...
reg
02/13/02 at 19:51:20
[slm]

We know that Allah (swt) is above such things as human emotions, so why is it for example that Allah 'loves' those who are just...

and also for example Allah 'hates' the wrongdoers...

I guess it's allegorical, we are given something which we can relate to?.

[wlm]
Re: Allah is above emotions but...
Kashif
02/14/02 at 16:28:29
assalaamu alaikum

One things for sure: if we know that Allah loves something or someone, as human beings its something we can understand, and it inspires withing us love for that thing or person too.

Likewise, since we know that Allah hates a thing or person, its something we can understand and thus, inspires us to stay away from that deed or person.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: Allah is above emotions but...
Arsalan
02/14/02 at 22:48:55
[slm]
[quote]
I guess it's allegorical, we are given something which we can relate to?.
[/quote]Kind of, but not exactly.  As Muslims, when we read in the Qur'an that Allah loves something or someone, we are asked to believe in it.  But what type of love is it?  Is it the type of love that we experience with our children, spouses, parents?  

There is no anthropomorphism in Islam.  Allah is NOT like us, and neither are any of His attributes like our attributes.  So He loves, but His love is not like our love.  His love is *the* ultimate love.  It is pure, free from any negative tendencies of the love that we experience and share with others.  Similary, He hates, but His hate is not like our hate.  He sees, but not with two eyes like we do.  He hears, but not with two ears like we do.  Etc.  Etc.  All of His attributes are divinely perfect.  All of ours are imperfect, tainted with some sort of human imperfection.

Language is a man-made tool which cannot completely explain the reality of Allah (swt), because He is such who cannot be contained by/with anything!  

And Allah knows best.

Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah.
Re: Allah is above emotions but...
ABD
02/14/02 at 21:49:18
[slm]

I agree with Br. Arsalan. When Allah-u Subhana Wata'ala says that He hates wrongdoers and that He loves those who are just, His Love and His Hate is different from human love and hate. That is why His attributes are just for Him, and no one else. That is actually a condition of Tawheed. It's called Tawheed-ul Asmaa us Sifaat. Believing in the oneness of the names and attributes of Allah-u Subhana Wata'ala.
My point is that we cannot comprehend the way which Allah-u Subhana Wata'ala loves or hates, it's in another dimension. When the hand of Allah-u Subhana Wata'ala is mentioned, it's not like the human hand with five fingers. It's a hand in a dimension that humans cannot perceive, and that is the case with His Love and Hate.

If I have said anything incorrect, may Allah-u Subhana Wata'ala forgive me, and may He forgive all of us for our mistakes. Ameen.

[wlm]
Betul
Re: Allah is above emotions but...
assing
02/14/02 at 21:51:52
In confrimation with what al akh Kashif and Arsalan said, i would say i understand where you are comming from brother Reg. However, as the brothers hinted to the people of knowledge have a basic principle when it comes to Allah's names and His attributes. As Shaykhul Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah stated in his great book 'Aqeedatil Waasitiyyah which basically deals with the correct way to understand Allah's names and His attributes as you alluded to in your question:

"And from faith in Allaah is faith in what He described Himself with in His Book and what His Messenger Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) described Him with, without tahreef or ta'ateel and without takyeef or tamtheel."


Commentary:

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan says:

After the writer briefly mentioned the foundations that are obligatory to have faith in, he mentions them in a detailed way and he begins with the first foundation, which is faith in Allaah the Exalted. So he mentions that entering into it is faith in the Attributes of Allaah which He described Himself with in His Book, or those that He was described with by His Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) in his Sunnah. So we affirm these for Him as they came in the Book and the Sunnah with their terminology and meanings, without tahreef in their terminology or ta'ateel in their meanings, and without making tashbeeh for them with the attributes of the creation.



Tahreef (alteration): It is the distortion and disinclination of something from its apparent meaning. It is said: he altered such and such so he distorted it. It is of two types:



The First Type: Tahreef in terminology - It changing the word to other than its apparent meaning, either by adding a word, or by taking it out, or by deleting a diacritical mark as in the statement of the people of misguidance concerning the statement of Allaah the Exalted:

"And your Lord will come."

[They say] that is the Command of your Lord. So they added a word. Similarly, there is their statement regarding the statement of Allaah the Exalted:

"And Allaah spoke to Moosaa directly." [They] reaffirm it to another term.

So they change a diacritical mark.



The Second Type: Tahreef in meaning - It is changing a word from its apparent meaning and its reality, and presenting the word with the meaning of another word. Such as the statement: 'Verily the meaning of Mercy is wanting reward and the meaning of Anger is wanting punishment.'



Ta'ateel (void): Void language - It is used to make the word empty, that is, to void, and the meaning here is to negate the Attributes from Allaah the Glorified and Exalted. The difference between tahreef and ta'ateel is that tahreef negates the correct meaning without changing it to different meaning, like a chaotic action. So everyone who performs tahreef also performs ta'ateel but everyone who performs ta'ateel does not perform tahreef.



Takyeef (to ask 'how') - It is to distinguish the modality of the Attributes. It is said: 'One can determine the modality of something if its modality known.' So to determine the modality of the Attributes of Allaah is to determine their 'how' and condition which they are upon. This is not possible for human beings because it is from that knowledge which Allaah has kept to Himself. So there is no path to attain it because it is from His Essence. So just as it is not possible for humankind to know the Essence of Allaah, they cannot determine the modality of His Attributes. So when Imaam Maalik was asked:

"The Most Merciful ascended (istawaa) above His Throne."

"How did He ascend?" So he said: "Istawaa is known and its modality is unknown and faith in it is obligatory and questions concerning it are an innovation." This is the statement concerning the Attributes.



Tamtheel (resembling) - It is to liken Allaah by saying that His Attributes are like those of the creation; such as saying that the Hand of Allaah is like our hands and His Hearing is like our hearing and His Eyes are like our eyes. (far above is Allaah from that) Allaah the Exalted said:

"There is nothing like Him. He is the Seeing, the Hearing."

So it cannot be said about His Attributes that they are comparable to our attributes or that they resemble our attributes or that they are like our Attributes. Likewise, it cannot be said that the Essence of Allaah is like our essence. So the monotheist believer affirms all of the Attributes of Allaah upon their apparent sense by Magnifying Allaah and His Greatness. The one who performs ta'ateel negates them or negates some of them and the one who likens Allaah affirms them upon a sense not befitting of Allaah, and this is only befitting of the creation.

The people of the Sunnah and the Jamaa'ah do not take their faith in the fact that there is nothing like Allaah to mean that they negate from Him what He affirms for Himself such as those who go to an extreme in de-anthropomorphizing Him until they make Him void of His Attributes, in trying to leave of likenesses for Him, in trying to avoid any likening of His Attributes to those of the creation. So the people of the Sunnah say that the Attributes of Allaah the Exalted are specific to Him and only He is described with them. The creation have Attributes specific to them and they are described with them. There is not similarity between the Attributes of the Creator and the attributes of the Creation. So this warning is not necessary except for those people who distort Allaah's Attributes." (End of the shaikhs' commentary)

What the shaikh is saying is true, because if you apply this logic to the not just to Allah's love or hate but the rest  of Allah's names and attributes whether it be His seeing, knowing, hearing, face, hands, etc...., where will one end with the claim these these names and attributes mean something else or are allegorical? For example, there are those who say Allah's rahmah is allegorical. Why? Because they say logical reasoning (aql) negates this rahmah. For rahmah connotes pity and weakness for the one who the mercy is been given to, and such a characteristic is not behoving of Allah the all mighty. Thus, Allah has no rahmah in the real sense, but it means He want do good for that person. See the reasoning i am talking about. Now if we aplly this method of thinking to all Allah's names and attributes it will be as ibn Qayyim describes: They flee from one type of evil, i.e. resembling Allah to His creation, but they fall into another one which is Ta'ateel, i.e to void Allah of His names and attributes, so they worship and "A'dm" nothing. Because (if you ever read some of these books kinds of books you will see that they just desribe Allah as being not this, not that, not, not, not,...........So then what is He you have to ask yourself?

Based on this same line of thinking, but in an extreme from, Jad ibn Dirham claimed that Allah never took Ibrahim as a friend, nor did He spoke to Musa!!! So the khalilfah of Khurasaan, Khaalid ibn Abdullah Al Qasree, after he gave his eid khutbah  said to the people: "O you people go and sacrifice, and may Allah your sacrifice, for indeed I am about to sacrifice Jad ibn Dirham because he claimed that Allah never took Ibrahim as a friend, nor did He spoke to Musa", and he came down and slaughtered him. {Due to him leaving the fold of islam based of his previously mentioned beliefs. This took place around 123 hijri}    

Hence, you see how seriously the salaf took this issue of having the correct belief regarding Allah's names and His attributes. Thus, when imam Malik was asked: How does Allah ascend over his throne? He answered:
 
‘‘Al-Istiwaa (the ascention) is known, and how is unknown, and to have eemaan (faith) in it is obligatory, and to question it is an innovation.’’  Then he said to the questioner, ‘‘I do not think, except that you are an innovator.’’  So he ordered him to be expelled.

As i remember shaikh  Al Albani saying: do you think this man automitacally became an innovator by asking that question? No. But this is how the salaf dealt with such issue to cut off all fitnah from the root.  

So, in conclusion i would advise you brother, sincerely, as would advise myself and all those who may read this post, that when it comes to matters of belief in Allah and His attributes, as ibn Taymiyyah said: That we believe in them as they came without alteration, asking how or resemblance to the creation. And to hold fast to the way of the early generation of muslims, especially when it comes to issues like these. For they were the most knowledgable about this deen, and within their methodolgy one finds coherancy, clarity, and contentment.
And Allah knows best.

NS


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