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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| kandahar |
| 12/04/02 at 04:55:19 |
| salam u aleikom i am a revert but only some muslim friends know about it (i have already posted about the reasons why i can’t tell it to my parents at the moment). the problem is that i live with my parents, Christmas is approaching, and i don’t know how i should behave: my parents aren’t religiuos, so i won’t have to attend to any religious ceremony or go to church or things like that.. but still they do things like Christmas tree, and exchanging presents.. i am supposed to buy presents for my parents and friends, also if i always disliked this tradition which for me is totally a waste of money and has nothing to do with religion. now, i am wondering if it is considered haram to prepare such presents? in any case not buying them would mean an offense for my parents and friends, expecially if i can’t explain to them the reason of my behaviour. so i was thinking of a compromise, like writing a poem for each of them: that’s not exactly a present, but still it shows that u cared. another problem is Christmas dinner: we all go to my grandmother and she cooks a huge meal of traditional dishes, which most of them contain pork meat; i can’t refuse to eat it, and i can’t say “i don’t eat pork meat”, cause my parents are already suspicious about my interest in islam and the “bad” influence of my muslim friends on me; for the same reason, i can’t just say: “i want to go vegetarian”; i have to appear and behave as normal as possible. i was wondering if i can say something like “istaghfirullah” or “bismillahi rahmani rahimi” (obviously not aloud) before eating such haram food, in order to reduce the sin i am committing. i was also wondering if vomiting after the meal could be a solution (also if a little...disgusting); but i don’t know if it is haram to induce vomit voluntarily. anyway i hope that Allah (SWT) can make me have a high fever so that i wil have to rest in bed drinkin soup instead!! |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| rchater |
| 12/05/02 at 00:23:03 |
| As-salaam aleikum, I sympathize with you bro/sis. It really is a difficult situation. Do your family and relatives know that you dislike these traditions? I'm thinking that you could be honest and straightforward with them about your feelings without having to come right out and say I'm Muslim. If they're not religious, I don't think you'll be offending them much. You should know and remember that Islam is very easy and Allah is Most Forgiving and He knows what's in your heart -- what your intentions are. Coming out and saying you're Muslim should be gradual. Give hints to make them come to that conclusion. Like eating pork for example. You could tell your grandmother, 'I really don't want to hurt your feelings but recently I've grown to dislike pork. Have you seen the conditions pigs are in before being slaughtered?.' That kind of thing. As for the gifts, I'd go about it like this. Each year I'd get them a gift worse than the one the year before. lol. I know it sounds bad but then they'll know to expect a bad gift from you and wouldn't care about getting something from you anymore. Gradual! :) In your heart your intentions are good. Allah (swt) knows that so relax and ask guidance from Him. And make duaa that when the time is right to tell your family about your reversion to Islam, the shock won't be too great for them. Good luck! :-) |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Sis_Malak |
| 12/05/02 at 21:35:11 |
| :-) [slm] I have been in this situation, so I will tell you how I handled it. I don't know if it's the best way, but it worked. For the presents, I still give my parents a little something, but not so much because its Christmas, I just make it as a "I'm just buying something for them because it reminded me of them" gift. And this year I won't even see them till January (I live in CA and they live in Ohio), so it's really not Christmassy. And really I just do it because I want them to respect my traditions, so I am respecting theirs too. But they know I won't go to church or anything. However, I did like your poem idea. :) I don't know if its really haram to give gifts....I think if the intention is right, maybe its ok. (wa Allahu alim) As far as the pork, I just told them I don't like it, and ate the other foods. (I'm kind of a picky eater, so they didn't think much of it) But if you can't get away with that, just take a little and sneak it into your napkin or something. : :-[ Good idea, huh? But don't eat it. And please don't vomit on purpose :P Yuck!!!! Hope it goes well, inshallah. Tara |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| eleanor |
| 12/06/02 at 01:13:16 |
| [slm] In the past I have bought presents, received presents... I even went to the church one year - All with the intention of keeping my mother happy. I didn't want to hurt her feelings. I live fairly far away from my family, so I see the gift giving as an opportunity to let them know I still think about them and care about them. As for the pork, just say you don't like it. It shouldn't be a problem. I mean if you were to turn around one day and say "hey I don't like potatoes/broccoli/[insert appropriate food] anymore..." they wouldn't have a problem with that... They're going to have to find out sooner or later... you can start now by giving them hints ;) good luck!! |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| oneway2paradise |
| 12/07/02 at 01:23:05 |
| [slm] My family has always been pretty cool with my ways, no matter what they are. I always told them how I felt no matter what they said about it. I was never afraid of their reactions. So, I can't completely relate. If you are under 18, I understand that it can be difficult because your parents have legal rights over you. How about you give them all books about Islam? Jesus, Prophet of Islam is a good choice. Or anything short and to the point like Towards Understanding Islam by Sayyid Abu Ala Maududi. That would shock them, eh? :o Or the video from PBS, Islam Empire of Faith. Wouldn't it be fun to watch them unwrap their gifts? :o ;) I know, I'm bad. ;D May Allah guide you. [slm] :-* :-) |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| kandahar |
| 12/07/02 at 05:21:11 |
| i thank u all for your posts; i understand that most of the mistakes in this situation were made by me, cause i never really tried to hint my parents about it, but that's because i am very new to islam. i past from the phase1 of having muslim friends and noticing their strange habits, to the phase2 of intellectual interest about why did they kept such strange habits so faraway from their home, so it came the phase3 when i read mainstream books about ISLAMISM thinking that it was the same as islam (like books about osama, the talibans, the bad condition of the muslim women ???), then i moved to the phase4 where i read books about ISLAM (i read all the Quran translation, then the haadith)...and surfed a lot on the muslim sites and started to learn salat..then it came the phase5 when i started performing salat 5 times a day...all the while i was still hanging out with my muslim friends and learning arabic by myself..so now i am more or less able to read the quran in arabic.. but my parents are aware just of the first three phases, and about the fact that i hang around with some muslims; my muslim friends are urging me to go to the mosque, take my shahada ecc.., but i think that it's too early. in fact, my plan is to meet with other converted italians first, to hang around with them (and not just with immigrant muslims) then to enforce my faith so that when "the war" begins, cause there is no doubt that my parents, grandparents, acquaintancies.. will try to make me change my mind with every mean, i will know how to react best. about pork meat, i was stupid cause i usually either eat on my own or cook for the family, so i can easiliy avoid haram food, so i didn't think in advance about christmas. and is very disgusting to say, but my family is more religious about pork meat than about anything else... so i think i will just say that my doctor said that it is bad for my acne.. |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| an |
| 12/07/02 at 09:35:57 |
| [slm] Subhanallah..... Allah has brought u so far..Kandahar .. ... u're already performing the salat...Masha Allah... abt ur problem...I guess it must be hard for u... but I'm sure Allah will provide a way out for you due to ur sincerity....Insha Allah ... Just be careful abt the excuses though... since Islam places great importance on being honest or saying the truth...maybe u could say like what rchater suggested.... say something abt the health reasons behind eating pork or just say that u don't eat it anymore..........they might give u that quizzical look i guess... but as long as u don't have to eat it ..then that's better than having to vomit it out or eating it.........Allah knows best...hope everything goes well Insha Allah... wassalam.. |
| 12/07/02 at 09:39:38 |
| an |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Fatimah |
| 12/07/02 at 23:08:47 |
| salam alaikum, or you could say.. you're doctor *Allah, the Real Healer* said it was bad for you *in the Quran* ;) im also a convert/revert.. one of the hardest things for me was to tell everyone. I was suprised when they didnt give me such a hard time like I thought they would. I still have some problems.. stupid remarks, but noone cut off my head. 8) May Allah keep guiding you and keep you strong. :-* [quote]my muslim friends are urging me to go to the mosque, take my shahada ecc.., but i think that it's too early.[/quote] i never took my shahadah at a masjid.. i dont think you have to. as long as you have said it, you are Muslim. :) |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| daisynova |
| 12/09/02 at 16:08:27 |
| I have problems too.Like those.wa alaikumsalaam |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| kandahar |
| 12/10/02 at 09:43:20 |
if possible, i would like to know how do u daisynova handle or are planning to handle these problems and for how long have u been a secret muslim? it's goog to know that u are not alone |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Abd_al-Rashid |
| 12/10/02 at 21:46:57 |
| [slm] Xmas....a time of joy and sharing...family...eggnog....roasted ham....NOT! Did you know that the suicide rate actually goes up during Xmas? What happens is some people get really depressed and lonely, overwhelmed by the materialism and stress, or they don't get invited to "the" xmas party of the year, or they max out their credit cards at the mall and when the bill comes in January they can't take it. Then you have some families that have a few drinks and next thing you know it's an all out brawl with insults, fists, police, etc. (This happened once at my grandparents' house) By my house there is a church and their sign reads "Jesus is the reason for the season" Nice try, except he was not born on Dec. 25th. These are just some of the things I told my family why I was no longer celebrating Xmas. The most important thing to remember is to be firm yet nice. Meaning do not compromise on your principles but do it in a nice and respectful fashion. Smile, be calm, and explain your reasons. Perhaps they are all about tradition, refer them to the false myth of Dec. 25. Or maybe they just want to have a good time, talk to them about the harmful effects of alcohol. Basically you know your situation better than we do so see what track is best to take. See in Islam we take the gradual approach, like the others mentioned you should drop hints here and there. No arguments, yelling, etc. Myself when I see an argument coming I say "I will not argue with you" and leave the room. The best way is to make duah and be patient, alhamdulilah I remember my first Ramadan my mom was on my case about I'm gonna starve to death and this year she asked me how it went and when did it and, how was Eid, etc. So again when you stick to your principles and not compromise you will be respected more insha'allah. [wlm] |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Sis_Malak |
| 12/12/02 at 02:58:36 |
| [slm] :-) Sister, I just wanted to elaborate on my earlier post and let you see how it turned out for me. I met "the Arabs" (I would call them Muslims, but I don't think that many of them really qualified, so for now, we will just use this term) when I was 17 and a senior in high school. My parents did not like it one bit. Especially when I started dating one of them. :P I never told anyone, not even any of "The Arabs" that I started reading about Islam that Ramadan. And why did I? Because of www.jannah.org, actually. When I came on this site and asked them "What is Ramadan, and why can't my boyfriend kiss me during it?" (Subhanallah, times change, huh??? :-/) I found the answers to my questions on this board, alhamdulillah, and it made me want to learn more. (Thanks again, anyone who was here four-five years ago) When I converted to Islam, I was "in the closet" for a while still. I never went to the masjid or hung out with any Muslims (because the only ones I knew were "The Arabs"). I hid it from my parents-don't ask me how, because I have no idea. I think Ramadan was easy because I was at school or work in the day anyways. But salah was hard to hide. But I did it anyways, because I was too afraid to tell my family. Then, last year, I moved to california. Alhamdulillah, I met Muslims here, who helped me to increase my faith and my commitment to this deen. I began going to the masjid and I became a :-). And then, alhamdulillah, I found the strength to tell my parents. It was really scary, and they kind of freaked out at first, but they are ok with it now. They see that I am a good person still. But religious debating is all but forbidden with them. I hadn't told the rest of my family until my sister (oneway2paradise) helped me to do so. (Thanks ;).) My grandparents, who I never thought could handle it, took it better than my parents. :o I was shocked! Now, life is good, alhamdulillah. Yeah, I get stupid remarks sometimes. For example, I told my dad today that I am going to go to ohio to visit them in the beginning of january. He asked if I was bringing "saddam" with me. (My husband's name is Sultan.) :P But that's closer than last year, when he called him Osama...... But my mom asked me how my fasting was going during Ramadan, and twice asked me why I wasn't at the masjid at night when she called. The moral of the story: (I know, it's about time) You know your parents, but don't underestimate what they can handle. They might surprise you. And don't be afraid to be who you are.....but also, don't tell them until you feel ready to. Until then, be the best Muslim you can in the closet. ;) May Allah make it easy for you. Salaam Tara :-) |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Kathy |
| 12/12/02 at 08:57:34 |
| [slm] What a tought time of year it is for the reverts! Been there and I really understad it. Not only are we dealing with our friends, co-workers and family... but also our own inner struggles. Many of those born into Islam have no idea what trial we are going through. I think this topic is often the "White Elephant" in the room. (aka the Masjid!) As more and more people revert, this topic will become more common. Most reverts have no problem dealing with the religious aspects of Christmas. I mean we all know that Bibically there was no way that Jesus as was born at this time of year, we know we don't celebrate birthdays, and the commercialism is enough to make anyone sick. However, it is the family and the traditions that tug at our hearts. We are no longer part of that, and even more so now than at any time, we realize we are not really a part of our family. Yes ~ genetically, but as a result of our new Religion we are no longer like our brothers and sisters in the basics of life -like clothes, food and daily activities. Shopping at this time is a nightmare for reverts. I can't tell you how many times I have caught myself humming along with the Christmas music in the stores.[i](However I have succesfully changed the words to "Fall on your Knees" to the night of Lalayt ul Qadr!)[/i] Those of us with children have a double trial,,, Santa..in schools, tv, and just about everywhere outside our door! Work is another nightmare Everyone is in a Christmas Spirit. The jolly "Have a Merry Christmas" leaves the revert hanging for a responce. The parties, the invites, the egg nog! Yikes! This is a time that we all need to reinforce each other. A time to increase our studies... even bone up on the Islamic version of Jesus life...so you can add to the conversations. My philosophy is to deal with it head on. I let Ali see all of this and explain to him why it is right and wrong. He is eight now, and I think I have been succesful. This year I am taking him to the Hannakah House: at school they have been teaching about it. I gotta learn about this holiday!...A couple of years ago I actually took him to sit on Santas lap! :o What I did was just prior i talked to the guy in the red suit and asked him to tell Ali that he was a real person, but not Santa...as santa is a story. I took him to see the reindeer- [i]he thought they were camels![/i], so he could see reindeer really don't fly. I explain to him the importance of gift giving and the hadith about it. So on our holiday we give gifts to his cousins and on thiers they give gifts to him. We go to the tree farm to see all the beautiful trees and then after the season to see all the stumps... I invite my family over for Eid and they invite us over on Christmas. We used to go over their on that day, but I felt as if I was celebrating with them, so now we go days after. My family knows I don't eat pork but used to serve it anyway. One year I had a heart to heart and asked them -if I was diabetic would you make your sweet potatoes with or without the sugar? I asked them if their Vegetarian boss was coming for dinner- would you offer an alternative? I also mentioned that when you have guests over a person does not make a meal they can't eat.~They got the idea and after that always had something suitable for me. I have written all of this because I know we reverts are struggling. Perhaps now is the time for all the Muslims to keep this in mind and offer some support. Many reverts have been Christian for over 20 years and a Muslim for less than 3. Those first 10 years are tough for us. It is the Jihad, the struggle. "All Muslims are like a foundation, each strengthening the other; in such a way they do support each other." Bukhari & Muslim |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Muneerah134 |
| 12/12/02 at 17:43:52 |
| [slm] As usual, Kathy says it so well! We too deal with it head-on. This year and last we were able to really celebrate Eid ul Fitr and do a bit of dawah at the same time. My 9 year old was happy to open all her presents before the Eid and then say, "okay, now next week on Eid we can go around and I can deliver presents to all our friends." She really got into the spirit. We visited, ate, went to the Masjid and generally enjoyed ourselves. (It doesn't cost me nearly as much as Christmas used to when I was younger. ;D) This year my mother brought our "end of the year presents" as she calls them on Eid. She even asked how we give greetings to each other on our day. Take your time with it, and spend time with your Muslim friends and their families, that helps me. This time of year always brings back memories for me, so I am making new ones to help with the bittersweetness of the old ones. :-) Muneerah [] |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Red |
| 12/17/02 at 09:38:19 |
| [slm], i have a question to add to this thread. its concerning presents, many people at my job give me presents. they know i don't celebrate christmas, and they do not make the present at all chrismassy (the wraping paper is plain and that sort of thing), in the past eid has fallen at the same time, so it was easy to return their gift with an eid card explaining what eid was and ramadan, but this year it does not fall at the same time. what should i give them in return for the gift?, it is very rude to refuse a gift, should i just make a thankyou note or something? Any idea on what i should do? I usually try to return the gift they gave me with equal value, but should i just give a card? wasalam and thanks red |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| jannah |
| 12/17/02 at 09:58:23 |
| [slm] I used to bring something to work on the day after/before Eid and send an email out to everyone that there was free baklava or something in my cube to celebrate the end of Ramadan.. muslim fasting month :) And when I used to go somewhere I'd bring something back for everyone.. ie when I went to Saudi.. |
| Re: CHRISTMAS PROBLEMS |
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| Dude |
| 01/07/03 at 18:43:51 |
| Finally a thread where I can make a contribution! As I’ve stated before, I met my wife in college and fell for her, and in order to marry her, I had to “convert” to Islam. Essentially, I agreed to accept Islam into my home, which I have. I was raised Catholic, but at best, I’m agnostic. I believe some of the Bible. Parts of the Quran are believable as well. In general, I think it is beneficial for children to grow up having been taught a faith (eventually, everyone decides for themselves, as to what they’ll believe), and because I’m in no position to teach my kids any faith, I leave that to my Muslin father-in-law and my wife. We only eat halal meat (I’ve abstained from pork and haram products), and my wife provides the teaching in our house. I try to support her the best I can, and not interfere or contradict her. Our son is 3-1/2, and our daughter only 6 months. We fasted for ramadan (the wife and I- not the kids!), and celebrated Eid too. Good times. Having said that, I grew up with Christmas. Most Christians know that Jesus wasn’t born on the 25th, but the general population, I expect, doesn’t. I take offense to Rasheed al-Fanzuali’s (could you have picked a longer name?) comments. I won’t even bother with a rebuttal, because he’s completely missing the point. Christmas has become, for me, a time to reflect. Most people take time off from their busy lives to visit family or friends that they haven’t had a chance to see enough through the year. We have numerous family gatherings, and each one is special. Alcohol is sometimes present, but nobody forces anyone else to drink. We choose not to. Every family has a different tradition, and in my house, my sister, Mum, and I always bought each other one new ornament for the tree every year. My Mum passed away in 1996, but we continue that tradition still. As I was hanging the ornaments this year, I reflected on many, many fond memories. I came across an ornament from 1979 my Mum. I explained to my son that his Grandma gave me that when I was his age. Then, I show him the first two ornaments I gave him. The next day, we went to the store together where he picked out a special ornament for his Mum, which we had engraved with the date. From years and years gone by (over 25 years, 75 plus ornaments), each one has it’s own special memory. A new tradition I started on my son’s (Mini Dude) first Christmas was to take him down to the store, spend as much money as I can spare on gifts, and we drop them off together at the local Christmas Bureau, where the gifts are distributed to needy families. Every year ranges, depending on our personal situation. This year is the fist year Mini Dude has really been able to understand what is happening. I took him to Toys-R-Us, and explained that I wanted him to pick out a bunch of toys for kids his age, and we were going to give them away to other kids who didn’t have any of their own. He, predictably, picked out toys he liked for himself. I walked him down to the drop-off depot, and we walked in together. He said to the clerk behind the counter, “These are for all the kids”, and helped me hand over the bags. No tears (well, I was welling up). No fuss. No argument. He understood, and I couldn’t have been prouder. For dinner, we have a Halal turkey. My Father asks us to all hold hands, and he says grace. His grace is along the lines of “God, we thank you for this food, and the opportunity to be gathered with loved ones…” My wife adds a “Bismilla” to the end, and my son says “Ameen”. We explain, as best we can, why we celebrate Christmas. Yes, Christmas is originally celebrated for the birth of Christ, and why is that so bad in the Islam world? Wasn’t he a highly regarded prophet? My point is, talk to kids, and don’t be ashamed to explain to family your Muslim beliefs. Explain what role Jesus played in Islam, and what Muslims believe, and my guess is most people will listen intently, and have a broader understanding of Islam for it. You see, most Christians think Muslims believe in an entirely different God- which isn’t the case! And by the way, we do let him believe in Santa Clause. Why not? I did, and I think I turned out OK (insert comment here). Kids have wonderful imaginations, and there is no harm in letting them exercise it. Kids eventually clue in to the fact that Santa is make-believe, but they also discover that it was their parents all these years stuffing their stockings, leaving presents under the tree, and eating the chocolate chip cookies by the fireplace. They are reminded how much their parents love them. On the other hand, I still don’t know who left me that bright red fire engine under the tree when I was 4…I guess it was Santa. |
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