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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Should we form ties with..... |
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| elite_ansaar |
| 12/19/02 at 11:00:19 |
| ....North Korea? [slm] Do any of the others think we muslims should be forming ties with neutral nations like North Korea, who do not oppress us personal and bring no harm to us (none that i know off), and to use this friendship to better our military capabilities by having joint military cooperation with them? We know the North Koreans are deeply anti-US and hate them with a passion, and therefore have built up a powerful military to be able to counter any threats from the US, however the N Koreans also need money, and political allies, we Muslims have the money (we could buy thier technology and weapons), and we have over 50 countries, more than enough to give political support, and build good trade ties. My opinion is we *should* form strong ties with North Korea as we desparately need the military technology to be able to defend our people against the High Tech, and pretty unstoppable US military. Would there be any Islamic Shariah restriction on something like this? Pakistan, Iran and Yemen already deal with the N Koreans for military technology, so maybe they have already seen the many benefits. Maasalaamah Ansaar |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| jannah |
| 12/19/02 at 11:52:32 |
| [slm] "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I dunno. N. Korea has many shady practices. They've broken treaties without a thought. Are they really that trustworthy? I think we can go back to the Quran which says not to take the unbelievers (no matter who they are) as awliya ie protectors, real allies, b/c in the end they have their own agenda. If at such time their agenda doesn't match up with yours, you're screwed. Would you take as protectors people who don't believe in an afterlife? That's kind of a scary proposition to me. |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| Traveler |
| 12/19/02 at 20:40:13 |
what makes you think they want to be friends with muslim fanatics? |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| yunus |
| 12/19/02 at 21:40:26 |
| we should form ties and work with each other first and work to unify the disjointed UMMA first |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| elite_ansaar |
| 01/03/03 at 12:16:57 |
| [slm] Jannah "Would you take as protectors people who don't believe in an afterlife? That's kind of a scary proposition to me." Its not a case of Taking as protectors, its a case of building "ties" so that we can use thier knowledge to develop our militaries, to defend our people. Lets be honest, as an Ummah, we are pretty much useless and hopeless at defending our people, we simply dont have the technology. Teaming up with N-Korea at least give us some knowledge to work with. Traveler "what makes you think they want to be friends with muslim fanatics?" Its not a case of being friends', its a case or building ties. And i'll answer the rest of your point in a moment. Yunus "we should form ties and work with each other first and work to unify the disjointed UMMA first" I agree, in part we need to unite the Ummah, but by the time thats done, half the Ummam will probably be wiped out. What are we gona do in the meantime?! We are defenceless against the aggressors, from Iraq, Palestine, Libya, Afghanistan to Iraq again, and to Chencya, we cannot defend the lives of our people! So its about time we turn to others for a bit of help. Remeber, your enemies enemy etc? Now to address all your points, especially traveler, you guys may not know this, but North Korea already ARE building ties with muslim countries. They have been selling weapons to Yemen, Jordon, Iraq, Iran and Egypt. They have also been running joing military development programs with Pakistan and Iran! In fact, North Korea have even tested thier non (chemical/nuclear and bio) weapons in muslim countries :D So looks like our leaders actually are doing something about the sad state of our defences! Maasalaam Ansaar |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| Tesseract |
| 01/03/03 at 18:33:16 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum wa Rahmatullah, [quote]Do any of the others think we muslims should be forming ties with neutral nations like North Korea, who do not oppress us personal and bring no harm to us (none that i know off), and to use this friendship to better our military capabilities by having joint military cooperation with them? [/quote] History tells us that Muslims during the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw) learnt from kuffar. After the war of Badr, Prophet Muhammad (saw) set a condition for setting free the kuffars who had been taken as prisoners, and the condition was to teach the Muslims, teach them reading and writing. I dont see any harm in: 1. Building friendly ties with N. Korea, irrespective of the fact whether we get any benefit out of them or not. We are Muslims, and we are not only to live in peace by ourselves but we are supposed to establish peace in other parts of the world as well wherever and whenever possible, and this message of peace cannot be conveyed until u build ties with other nations. 2. Use this friendship to strengthen our military capabilities. The example that we have from war of Badr, if Muslims could learn from kuffar, then why not avail their friendship to learn today. Wallahu A'lam. Wassalam. |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| Barr |
| 01/06/03 at 06:30:32 |
| Salam, In principle, I agree with Tesseract with regards to working with non-Muslims. Many examples from the Prophet such as the great assistance given by Abu Talib. Eventhough he is not a Muslim and died a disbeliever, his help given to the the Prophet (saw) such as his protection is so commendable such that he himself becomes an asset to da'wah, mashaALlah. During hijrah, Abu Bakr (ra) and the Prophet took the services of a non-Muslim servant in their journey to Madinah as well. The question is... can North Korea, be our "Abu Talib"? I'm not sure whether this can be discussed fairly in the board. However, some points of consideration are as follows: 1) The conditions of which the services of non-Muslims are maximised are such that there is a level of trust, understanding and security that favours the Muslims. How much of the abovementioned can North Korea offer us? What has history shown, as mentioned by Jannah, and what can be learned? How confident are we? 2) Is forming alliance for technological warfare advancement a top priority? 3) Is the Muslim world really short of human, monetary and technological resources? (I wonder how many nuclear scientists are Muslims... could be more than we think!) 4)Any potential fitnah that can arise out of this, that can affect Muslims politically, socially and economically worldwide? 4) Any other benefits to da'wah in the short and long term? Or is it a time-bomb against da'wah? 5) Implications of public opinion on the pact? Survival for the Oppressed? Or the booming of the Oppressors? 6) Wot would N. Korea benefit from this? And wot would they do with the benefits. Bottom line, is it worth it? Maybe, I'm not answering the question... and maybe, I don't wanna answer the question. Its just not my place. But please.. don't let me be the spanner in the works. Do discuss. Would love to have my questions answered :) Wassalam :-) |
| Re: Should we form ties with..... |
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| Halima |
| 01/06/03 at 08:28:31 |
| My thoughts are: Russia is selling or helping Iran develop nuclear weapons and the U.S. is jittery about it. Is Russia an allay of the Muslims??? NO WAY!!!! Now North Korea never offered any assistance to the Muslims being terrorised by the U.S. and its allies. I wonder how they can be helpful now??? Will North Korea be siding with the Muslims to destroy or put in check an arrogant super power or will it accept to support Muslims to further its own interests??? We allowed the U.S. and its allies to completely surround the gulf region knowing its military might. It has bases in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the Red Sea, the Indian Ocean. We are even allowing them to use these countries air spaces to attack Iraq. And now we should ask North Korea to help us!!! The whole Muslim world is in jeorpady. And we let that happen. After Iraq, the U.S. will attack Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc., extinguishing the Muslim countries one by one and Islam at large. That is its plan. We put ourselves where we are today. We need Divine Guidance from Allah Subhana Wataallah. Halima |
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