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Dogs are not having their day in Islamic countries

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Dogs are not having their day in Islamic countries
Julia
01/11/03 at 00:06:39
Bismillah Arrahman Arraheem

[slm]

I am not sure I am posting this in the right forum. I am currently working on a response to a very anti-Muslim article (ostensibly about the treatment of dogs in the Muslim world) which appeared at the end of Ramadan (12/4/01) in my local paper (The Ashtabula Star Beacon) from US-wide syndicated columnist Kathleen Parker of the Orlando Sentinel.  

I am curious how many of you have read the article. What did you think?

For my response, I am looking for any information you have about dogs in Islam.

I am especially interested in getting a full acount of the story about the woman (in some narratives it is a man) of the Bani Israel who saw a thirsty dog at a well, and used her shoes as a dipper to give the dog water.

Also, if someone could help tell me more about the story of Ahl al-Kaf in the Holy Quran. They had a dog with them and were righteous people, so how could dogs be so bad?

Any timely help would be great, I am already way late in my response.

Just to note, although the article was purportedly about Muslims' cruelty and dislike toward dogs,  it was actually just a way to bash Muslims.

Parker wrote that Muslim "civilization" was so backward it makes cave society look progressive!! (She uses quotes around the word civilization beause she doesn't even think Muslims can have a real civilization as they are so barbaric because they don't love dogs and let them lick and eat from their utensils.)

She even accuses Muslims of not valuing or cultivating the domestication of animals.  How absurd. There are so many passages in the Quran extolling the gifts of Allah's creation, especially the fauna around us as Signs of Allah's bounty.

Help me debunk her sterotypes, faulty logic, black and white thinking, and defuse her hatred. Shukran.

Sister Julia :-)

P.S. I have not seen the full text online, but I will look for it to add in the next post.

Updated on 1/14/03. Here is the site:

http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1046

CLICK on Kathleen Parker's "90-DAY ARCHIVE" and go to 12/4/02.
That will get you to the article "Dogs are not having their day in the Islamic World."


01/14/03 at 12:23:04
Julia
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
deenb4dunya
01/11/03 at 00:33:40
Assalamu Alaikum,

this is all I could find...


- This may or may not help... http://www.geocities.com/muthram/kalb.html

EDITED BY: ADMIN

Ok... enough articles...

here is the hadeeth you were looking for:

VERSION #1:
Abu Hurairah relates that the Holy Prophet said: A man proceeding along a track became very thirsty. Arriving at a well he descended into it and came out after taking a drink and saw a dog with its tongue lolling out trying to lick up mud from extreme thirst. The man thought this dog is suffering from thirst as I was suffering. So he descended once more into the well, filled his leather sock with water and came up holding it by his teeth and gave the dog a drink. Allah appreciated his action and forgave his sins. The Holy Prophet was asked: Messenger of Allah, are we rewarded for kindness to animals also? He answered: There is a reward for kindness to every living thing. (Bokhari and Muslim) Bokhari's version concludes with: Allah appreciated his action, forgave his sins and admitted him to Paradise.

VERSION #2:

Another version is: A dog was going round the brink of a well in an extremity of thirst, when a loose woman of the Bani Israel espied it. She lowered her leather sock into the well, drew up some water and gave the dog to drink. She was forgiven on account of this.


ANYWAYS>>>> HOW CAN YOU RESIST???? ISN'T IT CUTE???  :-*




Okie Dokie... let me know if you need anything else Sr.Julia ... I hope this helps... and when you're done, please post your article.

Wassalamu Alaikum,

Deen :-)
01/11/03 at 13:01:18
bhaloo
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
amatullah
01/11/03 at 12:36:26
One site:
http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

nice info also in:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/islam_in_the_us/23790
(check previous and next and related topics in site)

Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Julia
01/11/03 at 23:23:08
[slm]
Thanks for your help sisters. I will check out the resources provided, and will post my reply when I finish, Inshallah.

I just love Madinat al-Muslimeen!

After searching through some very nasty and scary anti-Muslim stuff (accidently) on the web just now, and getting very disheartened, it is good to come home to my city where I feel safe and loved by fellow Muslims who understand me.

If you want to see how much some people HATE Muslims, go to
http://www.abdulmalik.net/hatemail.php. The sight posts a warning for those who may be upset.

Only visit the sight when you feel strong. It will depress you, I'm sure, but
then again, it should strengthen your resolve to show how beautiful Islam is, and how it is NOT the way these commentators depict it. Scary stuff.
May Allah (SWT) protect and guide us.

Love, sister Julia


Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
jannah
01/12/03 at 00:44:39
Wow I've gotten tons of hatemail like that over the years.. Never thought of keeping it. Right after 9/11 I got tons.. but it's slowed down now but I still get one or two every now and then...the worst is when they insult the ras [saw] it's pretty disheartening for sure. There are people with a lot of hate in their heart for no reason. :(
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Julia
01/12/03 at 20:20:04
[slm]

Kathleen Parker is a very influential conservative columnist syndicated in approx 300 newspapers across the US. Unfortunately, she seems to be anti-Muslim thus far.

Here is a URL for her Dec. 4th editorial slamming Muslims for the way some Muslims view/treat dogs.

http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1046

Sorry it took a while to find it, I had read it in my local paper during Ramadan.

Please make du'a that she will learn more about Islam, and stop attacking Muslims. Shukran.

Sister Julia :-)



01/13/03 at 21:28:53
Julia
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Mujahideen
01/13/03 at 18:29:32
[slm]
     Muslim’s attitudes towards dogs are juvenile and ill informed.
     Everywhere I have been in the proverbial Muslim world I have witnessed the torture and abuse of animals in general but specifically dogs at the hands of Muslims.
     I really don’t understand why but they feel obliged to throw rocks at them, shoot them, or run them down with their cars whenever the opportunity presents itself. I don’t get it? What is the basis for such action?
     While Muslims should not keep dogs in their homes they are lawful to own if they are trained for hunting or protection.
     Like with nearly everything else our understanding of our Deen comes from superstition or from the abundance of misinformed Internet ‘scholars’ who get “fatwa’s” from places like Islam Q&A or islamway.net
     Until we require more qualified sources of information we will likely never advance ourselves out of the state we presently find ourselves.  
     
[wlm]
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
BroHanif
01/13/03 at 18:43:30
[quote]Muslim’s attitudes towards dogs are juvenile and ill informed.
Everywhere I have been in the proverbial Muslim world I have witnessed the torture and abuse of animals in general but specifically dogs at the hands of Muslims.
I really don’t understand why but they feel obliged to throw rocks at them, shoot them, or run them down with their cars whenever the opportunity presents itself. I don’t get it? What is the basis for such action?
While Muslims should not keep dogs in their homes they are lawful to own if they are trained for hunting or protection.
Like with nearly everything else our understanding of our Deen comes from superstition or from the abundance of misinformed Internet ‘scholars’ who get “fatwa’s” from places like Islam Q&A or islamway.net
Until we require more qualified sources of information we will likely never advance ourselves out of the state we presently find ourselves.   [/quote]

So in your first post at this board, you do the following:

generalise Muslims thinking that we are all dog haters,
think that by you travelling in the Muslim world you know what the local customs, culture and traditions are and blame them on Muslims
even worse you degrade some of our scholars who are doing the job of deen by inviting people to good and forbidding evil.

And one further point about dogs, the last government in Afghanistan banned the sport of fighting with dogs, now that the new administration is in, dog and hen fights are now the new sport. This pastime is popular with local customs and traditions and has nothing to do with Islaam. Please get your facts right before you post.

Salaams

Hanif

NS
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Julia
01/13/03 at 20:53:18
[slm]

Thanks for your responses thus far.  

To brother Hanif:
I started this topic to get people to read Kathleen Parker's article on
Muslims' treatment of dogs because I feel it is very anti-Muslim and
very ill-informed. It would be helpful if you had time to read the article and help me respond to her directly.

Let's not criticize each other until we try to respond to Parker; she is a synicated columnist in over 300 papers in the US!  So far, she is one of the few people commenting on such issues in the Press and she is not showing Muslims as very nice people.

People in my area will believe everything she says, because they don't have access to any other information.

Please see: http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jspcustid=67&catid=1046

Let me know what you think.

A professor of my mother's once said, "One should not compare the ideals of one culture with the practice of another." The mistreatment of any animals at the hands of Muslims is not the Islamic IDEAL; it is human's inability to follow the correct path.

Animals are mistreated in America, too, including the 8-10 million stray cats and dogs in shelters, and tens of millions in the streets.  No culture has the monopoly on cruelty to animals.

We all must try harder to be better stewards.

Any help responding to Parker would be appreciated.

[wlm]

:-)
01/13/03 at 21:27:23
Julia
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
bhaloo
01/13/03 at 21:31:38
[slm]

[quote author=Mujahideen link=board=ummah;num=1042261600;start=0#6 date=01/13/03 at 18:29:32]       Like with nearly everything else our understanding of our Deen comes from superstition or from the abundance of misinformed Internet ‘scholars’ who get “fatwa’s” from places like Islam Q&A or islamway.net
     Until we require more qualified sources of information we will likely never advance ourselves out of the state we presently find ourselves.      
[/quote]

What do you mean more qualified sources of information?  Are you insulting the scholars at those websites?
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
jannah
01/13/03 at 21:39:08
bhaloo I think those scholars are trying very hard to provide a service for people. and there are certainly a lot of people looking for answers to their questions in this day and age.. but what i think what the bro is talking about is when a person learns their islam from the internet... i see it all the time.. u know how they say a little knowledge used wrongly is dangerous.. it sure is.. there is no way you can learn islam from the internet.. it's all extremes and everyone has their agenda... you need a teacher and you need to learn properly. even those websites mentioned have their own way of looking at things, you don't know the background principles, the beliefs... you don't know the entire islam.. all you see is a question and answer and then people think they are faqihs??


Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Julia
01/13/03 at 21:58:55
[slm]

PLEASE, Please, Please go back and look at the original purpose for starting this topic!

I originally wanted help responding to a non-Muslim syndicated columnist with a lot of POWER in the US Press (Kathleen Parker) who attacked all Muslims saying they did not have a "civilization"; they do not respect animals; they are a cruel people, etc. etc.

In her 12/4/02 article in the Orlando Sentinel, Parker wrote about dogs in Islam using highly selective hadith and quotes from one clergy member in Iran. She seems to have plagiarized (and distorted) much of this particular column from a 2001 NYT article by Neil McFarquhar.

Instead of helping me respond in an articulate way by giving me insight about the topic of dogs in Islam, some respondents are going off onto a tangent and attacking each other. Arjukum, I beg you please look at the
URL to the Parker article first; respond to the content, THEN clarify (bicker?) with each other.

http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1046

Click on the "90 DAY Archive" and go to 12/4/02

(I am a new Muslim, with a bit of learning) who wants to write a letter to the editor, so I needed advice from those who know before undertaking this tiny jihad to try to correct STEREOTYPES of Muslims in the Press.

Thank you and please lets stay kind with each other.  We are supposed to love each other. The Prophet  [saw] told us so. My grandmother always used to say that, too.  Didn't the Prophet  [saw] once say something about returning to the religion of old women, i.e. stop philosophizing so much, and instead focus on our IMAN.


[wlm]

Sister Julia
(Just converted before Ramadan, studied Islam for a few years, and still need many more lifetimes to soak up all the beauty of Islam; hope I have time to keep learning, Inshallah.)





01/14/03 at 12:12:15
Julia
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
sofia
01/13/03 at 23:23:49
As-salaamu  'alaikum wa rahmatullah, Julia -

Hope you're well, insha'Allah. I haven't had the opp to really look into this yet, but here's something I posted on an earlier, related topic.
Also, see this link:
http://www.crescentlife.com/thisthat/animals_in_islam.htm

Not sure how that will help with the article (I haven't read it, although I heard about it. The link seems outdated). Either way, for those that reply to her, I'd focus on the basic views of Islaam, how Muslims are expected to treat other humans (and animals, too), etc. May not want to focus on dogs, alone, so that she at least gets a clue as to what Islaam really is. Allahu'Alim, may Allah guide her.

-----------------------------------------------
[I've added a few things in brackets]

Interesting story: 'Isa, alayhis salaam (Jesus, upon him be peace) once greeted a pig on the street and was asked about it (original teachings of Jesus also forbade eating the meat of pigs, just as in Judaism and Islam). He replied, I fear lest my tongue be accustomed to evil speech.

Though it seems that a lot of the comments posted here about animals (I hate cats, I hate dogs) are made somewhat in jest, I just wanted to throw a quick reminder out that animals, from an Islamic point of view, are not to be messed with. Torture, ill-treatment or starvation of animals are crimes and there are strict punishments for it, whether we're talking about Islamic law or secular law.

When you look up animals/insects in the Qur'aan, you'll see whole chapters named after them (The Cow, The Bee, The Spider, The Cattle, The Ant, The Elephant, The Steeds). Like mankind, animals/insects are created in communities that worship God. When looking at ahadith (narrations), there are numerous accounts for how to treat animals. One example: it is unlawful to make a target out of anything which has a soul (imagine if we realized humans count in that category). [Another narration tells us of a woman of Hellfire who used to tie up her animal, refusing it the ability to get its food.]

When you look up dogs in the Qur'aan, you'll see the story about the people of the cave and their dog. (Al-Kahf). Or that food hunted by trained animals, which includes dogs in certain conditions, can be eaten (Ma'idah:4). [When something is mentioned in the Qur'aan (without a prohibitive or negative connotation), it is given a high status. Allahu'Alim].

When you check the ahadith, you'll see that the Prophet (s) once shielded a dog and her newborn puppies from the Muslim army (or ordered someone specifically to move them to safety). And the story about the man from an earlier community who was sooo thirsty that he stopped at a well to drink. When he saw a dog licking the earth in obvious dehydration, he filled his shoe with water to feed the dog (a similar narration is told of a prostitute who is forgiven for doing the same), for which he was awarded Paradise. When asked if there is a reward for doing good to an animal, the Prophet (s) said, Yes, there is a reward for doing a service to anything which has a soul. [He never, Allahu'Alim, made an exclusion of even the pig, let alone dogs, for animals that we should treat kindly.

And while there are some ahadith that mention "washing" things that have been licked by dogs and the Angels of Mercy not entering homes where there is a dog that's not used for permitted purposes, we really need to trust in Allah and use common sense here. In no way have these precautions ever been taken to mean that we can abuse animals or treat dogs (in particular) inhumanely.

Disclaimer: this is not a full collection of ahadith/ayaat regarding animals, just some examples.

And sheeesh, go pet a dog, people.
If anyone has seen how Muslims react when a dog is around (running for cover from it and/or its saliva), you'll know why I suggest that]

::)

http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=archives;action=display;num=1028564714;start=15 ).

01/13/03 at 23:27:46
sofia
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Mujahideen
01/14/03 at 00:11:23
[slm]

     Inshallah Aza’ wa Jal al is well with you and your family.

     I have absolutely zero interest in debating or arguing about this but I think you may have misread my post in short you got it partly correct and partly wrong.

-      In general, yes, it is my observation that most Muslims I have encountered have irrational beliefs regarding animals in general and specifically about dogs and pigs. They are irrational in the sense that they have no basis within Sharia to engage in the actions I have observed. I have traveled extensively in the Muslim world and a few of the highlights are ( I don’t want to name countries because it may make people feel like they are being singled out – but suffice it to say I have studied in Muslims countries in North Africa, Asia, the Middle East and on the European continent):
o      They run them down with their cars
o      The beat them and throw rocks at them
o      They shoot them on site for no apparent reason. This one was really confusing because to me because it occurred in a country where 100% of the people follow the Maliki Methab, according to maliki Fiqh dogs including their saliva is pure provided it came from the animal when it was alive it is only impure when the animal is dead.

Of course I am blaming it on Muslims -- they were the ones perpetrating these acts -- who else would I blame?

You have to learn to separate criticism of Muslims from criticism of Islam. Clearly I am not advocating that these actions are Islamic I am holding they are precisely the opposite.

Who cares what the cultural beliefs are of people who do things like this? I am not particularly interested in the justification one brings forth for running a dog down on the street with their car or someone bashing his donkey over the head repeatedly with a large rock because he is not moving as fast as he would light (especially in light of the burden placed upon the donkey). Ask the kids why they try to kill dogs – they say it is because it is a dirty animal.

In short the point is these acts are occurring – they are being perpetrated by Muslims, these actions are antithetical to the Sharia and our Deen, they are the local customs of the people who justify them on Islamic grounds.  I have a problem with this and have no problems with speaking up against it even if this ruffles the feathers of a few muslims who like to believe that everything Muslims do is all good and any of our shortfalls is due to some conspiracy by Kaffirs. I am not saying this is where you are coming from but it is the perspective of many Muslims

Muslims are supposed to be witnesses to the Truth --  even if it against ourselves.


Also regarding the comment towards ‘Internet scholars’ this as Jannah pointed out correctly is in reference to Brothers and Sisters who seem to acquire all their knowledge of the Deen from the Internet not nessesarally the people who run the site– while this is a very valuable service especially for Muslims who do not speak Arabic as their access to resources are much more limited-  it does however have its limitations and it is important to recognize these limitations – some of us unfortunately do not see these limitations and run around calling everything they see Muslim do a Bida or Kufur because it does not appear on the faywa section of Islamic Q&A. They cause a lot of fitnah and mislead many people. Islam is a very wide tradition, it accommodate many different practices (not including beating animals  :) ) it is something one cannot learn from book but only at the feet of scholars.

So InshAllah I hope that clears thing up. I apologize if my initial post was not clear.

[wlm]
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Kathy
01/14/03 at 09:47:41
[slm]

I have been reading Kathleen Parkers articles for may years. She absolutely disses Islam every chance she gets by twisting the facts and by using her creative writing skills. It was so apparent even before 9/11.

It is too bad she uses her skills in this way, may Allah swt have mercy on her and guide her to the straight path....
Re: Dogs are not having their day in Islamic count
Julia
01/14/03 at 12:18:23
[slm]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Sorry about any confusion. The site for Kathleen Parker's anti-Muslim article about dogs is the following:

http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1046

Then click on her "90-DAY ARCHIVE" and go to 12/4/02
for the article entitled, "Dogs are not having their day in the Islamic world."

Make du'a for her to stop bashing Muslims.  What she does is different from criticizing  elements of a society for a legitimate reason in a serious scholarly way.

No doubt all peoples need self-introspection and honesty, but she is just spewing hatred.

Sister Julia :-)


01/14/03 at 12:19:04
Julia


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