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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

Questions about homosexuality
braveheart49
01/12/03 at 18:07:57
Salam wa alaykoum brothers and sisters,                    My name is nicky and i am 18 year old female. I have lived in U.S. for my whole life, and for the past 5 years of my life i have lived with a nightmare. I have finally come out of denial and faced the facts that i am homosexual, but i practice celibacy hoping maybe there is still a chance for me  to be a normal girl. I have a very faithful family in islam, they all pray and my mom and sister wear the viel. I am the only one that is different. Even though i do not pray 5 times a day all the time or wear the viel, but i do read the koran every chance i get with my father. Over the 5 year period i have read so many books containing information about homosexuality and religion. But, i can never get a clear idea about homosexuality and ISlam. I know that they are considered hated by god and sick people and kafireen (going to the bottoms of hells fire). but i have never been abused or anything emotionally negative in my life . i have a good and pure family. Why is this happening to me?? This is a very strong desire that is pulling me in closer and closer day by day, i am so scared of what might happen. I am very religious and i love islam very much. That is the only reason i have not given into the feeling. My parents do not know, i have not told them, i have been thinking about telling them within the 5 years that have past, but i am afraid they will stop me from living and doing things becuase of fear of doing harram.   It has been hell these 5 years, i dont know what to do anymore. I am afraid to talk to an IMAM in person, they might tell my parents, forsake me to hell, and not even help me at all. I have tried everything to "cure" myself from this disease, or some call it an addiction. This feeling has changed me so much within the last 5 years, I dress more boyish than i ever have, i still try my best to keep acting like a girl, but its very obvious. I cant keep living like this, because i know i will burst if i do. I need some help big time, What does God and the koran ask of me to do in this situation?? I need someone to tell me how i am going to be able to live my life.  :( Will i be happy if i ever decide to get married? will this feeling ever go away ? I have been fighting it for so long it has weakend me very much. Please someone help me give me the details of what Islam says about homosexuality and what i must do as a faithful muslimah.                                                                         Thank you all,                [glow=red,2,300]  N.A.R  [/glow]   P.S: I need some answers fast....please.
03/26/03 at 05:42:26
eleanor

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Abu_Hamza
01/12/03 at 18:30:16
[slm] Dear sister in Islam, I pray to Allah (swt) to help you in increasing your imaan [faith] and to reward you for your struggle against your nafs [inner self] to maintain a course which is pleasing to Him.   Let it be known that Allah (swt) does not burden any soul with something which is greater than what it has the capacity to bear.  If we are born with certain tendencies, if something is part of our nature, and we have no way to change it, then we are not held accountable for these tendencies.  And Allah knows us more than we know ourselves, for He created us, what is inside of us, and everything that surrounds us.  And surely He is the best of Creators. Sister, the act of sodomy is a major sin in Islam.  The Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) are very clear about this.  A man sleeping with another man, or a woman sleeping with another woman, is an act which is abhorred by Allah (swt).  There is no question about this fact, and alhamdulillah you are not unaware of it either. However, what of a person who feels he/she is homosexual and yet doesn't act upon the inner desire but suppresses it and ignores it?  Allah knows best, but I see this case not much different than that of a heterosexual man (or a woman) who feels the urge to commit adultery (or fornication).  Such desires are a disease which reside in the inner parts of our hearts, desires that need to be cured and illnesses that need to be healed.   There was once a companion of the Prophet (pbuh) who came to him and told him, he could accept *everything* that he (pbuh) was teaching but he could not avoid sleeping with women.  He loved it.  He wasn't willing to let it go.  The Prophet (pbuh) sat him down and told him a few things after which the man left with a resolve never to sleep with women.  Because he saw now what havoc it could create in the society.  The Prophet (pbuh) forced him to think about how he would feel if his own mother or sister were slept with, and he started thinking beyond himself.  Allah knows best if the man ever felt the desire to sleep with another woman, but he never did it. Sister, we all have weaknesses and illnesses in our heart.  And we fight against them every day of our lives to maintain a straight course.  We displease ourselves to please God.  This life is an ephemeral life.  Its hardships are also ephemeral.  If we have to struggle for a few years in return for the pleasure of Allah (swt) and his eternal rewards, then is it really a bad bargain? Sister, do not feel that you are living the life of sin.  Insha Allah, [i]insha Allah[/i] you are not.  As long as you do not act upon the calls of the deep recesses of your inner self.  As long as you struggle to correct yourself.  And you do all this for the pleasure of Allah (swt). This is all I can say at this moment.  Although I know much more has to be said. Take care.  May Allah protect you from the temptations of Satan, and guide us all to the Path of the righteous. You are in my du'aas. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Emerald
01/12/03 at 20:36:58
[slm] My interpretation of why homosexuality is forbidden in Islam is simply because it goes against Allah's (swt) will. I believe He created us to procreate and worship Him. The key word is procreate and the only way for man to do that is if the act of intercourse was made pleasurable. The meaning of Muslim is one who submits his/her own free will to the will of Allah (swt). If you believe in Him, you MUST BELIEVE and follow His laws. Sometimes they may seem like a heavy weight to bear but that is because the iman isn't strong enough to handle it. The Prophet (pbuh) said, Islam is EASY......that's because when you have such a great iman, as his was, you can overcome ANY burden. Now the human nafs can be a real heavy burden but I was once told that the heart is originally like glass, pure and can be easiy seen through. The more man commits sin, the more that clarity is clouded. Sometimes to the point where it becomes darkened. The only way to wash the darkness away is by getting closer to Allah (swt). Each step you take towards Him, He takes a fathom's length towards you and the clarity returns. I hope you can see where I am going with this.? My point is yes you are human and Allah knows what His creation is - weak. Even those who do not have temptions towards the same sex, have them towards the opposite. I feel it's the same thing. Both are sinful thoughts that can have horrible effects if acted upon. We must know and understand why we were created and follow His guidance because He is after all omnipotent and knows what is best for us. My advice sis, is please take steps towards Him, and I'm sure you'll find your iman getting stronger and stronger. Strong enough to overcome those feelings. I hope I was able to help. And don't forget to make du'aa.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
se7en
01/13/03 at 01:21:48
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, a thread from the old board you might want to check out: [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=ark&action=display&num=1462] click here[/url]

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Halima
01/14/03 at 12:17:19
Asalaam Alaikum, Well said Abu_Hamza and Emerald.  May Allah bless you both and Se7en for pointing or give more insight/research (the old board/archives). And Sis Braveheart49, may Allah Subhana Wataallah guide you in your fight against your nafs and strengthen your iman, INSHA-ALLAH. We will keep you in our prayers. Wasalaam. Halima

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Dude
01/16/03 at 14:55:08
For crying out loud people…this girl is 18 [color=red]*[/color] years old! I hope you can offer her a little more than “As long as you struggle to correct yourself”, or “May Allah Subhana Wataallah guide you in your fight against your nafs and strengthen your iman”, or especially this nugget: “Even those who do not have temptions towards the same sex, have them towards the opposite. I feel it's the same thing.” It’s NOT the same thing! Nicky has come on here and put herself at a tremendous amount of risk, and shown incredible courage in doing so. All you have all proven is that she can’t talk to anyone in her family or the Muslim community. You all seem to be under the impression that homosexuality is a choice! Although I’ll acknowledge, it may be with some, but I’m pretty certain that with most homosexuals, most have struggled for years in their homosexuality before finally accepting the truth about themselves, and learning to live with it. She is crying out for help, and you all are simply advising her to continue to suppress her feelings. Tick, tick… Throughout this site, I read a fair bit from Muslims whom feel that they are prejudiced against, or even the victims of racism. These are legitimate issues- every human should feel the right to tolerance and acceptance. You demand respect, and acceptance from other non-Muslims. That’s great! Having said that, you are also saying that Nicky will burn in hell if she continues on the patch clearly set for her. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Nicky- check your PMs. [color=red]* edited by moderator[/color]
01/17/03 at 07:15:00
eleanor

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Maliha
01/16/03 at 18:58:48
[slm] What are *you* saying Dude? She should go ahead and give in to those urges??? Though it goes against the very grain of nature? I won't get into the argument of whether homosexuality is something you are born with or not...the point is In Islam (and All other religions) it is Haram. It is sinful to engage in same sex relationships...and If that is against the PostModern ethoes of "tolerance" (let everyone destroy themselves as long as they  don't harm me) type attitude, then call me intolerant. Homosexuality is something that goes against the very grain of our nature, if you do have those tendencies, its a struggle you have to brace yourself against. Allah created us with different degrees of strengths and weaknesses, and the point is not to submit to our lowest desires. She is a Muslimah...and that is something that she knows deep down inside.... You claim you "respect" Muslims, but I haven't seen one comment from you that supports your claims. If you truly respect Muslims you would also respect our boundaries and perimeters. These are the limits set by the Creator of All. This is what we abide by. If you don't like that, then too bad...I don't "demand" respect from Non Muslims, they can respect my way if they wish..and if they don't I honestly could care less. You have your path, and I have mine. Sis, Maliha :-) [wlm]
01/16/03 at 19:00:16
Maliha

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
BroHanif
01/16/03 at 19:11:07
Dude, we don't hate nicky, we hate the sin. If she wants she can talk to anyone from the board whom she feels comfortable with. Since when did somebody say that she can't talk to her Muslim society ???. However, this is the problem with todays society we accept everything, in Islaam its not like that, rules and regulations are ther to protect society from falling into vice and sin.  Look at the western values do whatever you want with whoever you want, heck someone even got married to a four legged dog in a  church ! Is this what we want in society ? Do we want adultery and sexual sins be rampant in society ? No. Everyone is tested, for some it may be poverty or richness, others it may be health or ill health, yet who said going into Jannah is easy. Its not. You have to strive for it.  If somebody was gay or lesbian we don't shun them we hear to them, we pray for them and make dua for them yet if they are going against a sin then we must advise them on a suitable course of action, otherwise we ourselves will be questioned about our complacency on the day of judgement. [quote]You demand respect, and acceptance from other non-Muslims. That’s great! Having said that, you are also saying that Nicky will burn in hell if she continues on the patch clearly set for her.  [/quote] So the patch is set out for her clearly ??? For her to commit an act of sin ? Dude stop being such a fool, on this board you don't advise people to commit such a sin, heck tomorrow you'll be advising a Muslim tomorrow that its okay to guzzle a six pack of Budweiser because thats the path set out for them or who knows date someone because you are attracted to her. C'mon get a grip of yourself. When society have no rules we fall in the evil trap of Shaytan. Hanif
NS
01/16/03 at 19:16:02
BroHanif

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Abu_Hamza
01/16/03 at 21:41:00
Brothers and sisters, friends and foes! If you can take a few moments to write something helpful to breaveheart/nicky in this thread to deal with her dilemma, please do so.  Allah knows that she needs every bit of it.  If you cannot control yourself to do just that, then please take what you have to say in a different thread. You are not helping her. Thanks. Peace.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
eleanor
01/17/03 at 07:20:11
[slm] What Abu Hamza said. *frown*

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Sparrow
01/17/03 at 12:42:40
SL &?hor=Uncle Hanif link=board=lighthouse;num=1042412877;start=0#7 date=01/16/03 at 19:11:07] However, this is the problem with todays society we accept everything, in Islaam its not like that, rules and regulations are ther to protect society from falling into vice and sin.  Look at the western values do whatever you want with whoever you want, heck someone even got married to a four legged dog in a  church ! Is this what we want in society ? Do we want adultery and sexual sins be rampant in society ? No. [/quote] Plus, I think those who might come from a non-religious background need to be cautious in "advising" those who have a strong (or different!) faith because we may not understand the extent of the psychological conflict between the human desire and the religious mandate. The western attitude encourages "try it, why not" and suggests that mental scarring might occur when we struggle against what we want to do, however base the desire, but for a religious person  the trauma of committing such a sin (not that she has at this point) may ultimately be more damaging than stuggling against the desires. Peace, Sparrow
NS

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Dude
01/17/03 at 17:12:03
Did you all miss her sign-off? [quote]P.S: I need some answers fast....please.[/quote] What does that tell you about her current thought process? She's an 18 year old CHILD, and right now, she's lost, desperate, and God forbid...I don't want to say it. If you people aren't in or haven't been in her situation, I'm inclined to say you're in no position to give her advise Heck, I'm not either, for that matter. I just know that the "advise" you're dishing out could very well turn out to be distructive. I sent her a PM, but basically, she hopefully finds the strengh to keep going, and find a peer group or councilors whom have dealt with this before, and can offer her some insight. She needs to talk with poeple who have gone through similar strugles, who understand. I truly hope she does, and she can find peace with herself. Keep living, Nicky. Life is too good to lose hope right now...things will get better. There's some sort of poem about a tunnel and light somewhere in there, huh? ;) Maliha: I respect the rights to religion, and free speach...but that doesn't mean I have to respect your opinions on certain matters. I couldn't beleive what I saw being written, so I spoke out. Like it or lump it. Hanif: get off your soapbox, and stop throwing stones inside that glass house you live in. You're going to hurt someone.
01/17/03 at 17:14:57
Dude

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
ltcorpest2
01/17/03 at 18:06:28
Maliha: I respect the rights to religion, and free speach...but that doesn't mean I have to respect your opinions on certain matters. I couldn't beleive what I saw being written, so I spoke out. Like it or lump it. Hanif: get off your soapbox, and stop throwing stones inside that glass house you live in. You're going to hurt someone. Hey dude,   I don't think by saying things in this manner and publicly is a real good way to get any point across, if you disagree with a point of what someone is saying just present your arguement.  Getting personal only ticks people off.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
braveheart49
01/17/03 at 23:09:31
[slm] my fellow muslim brothers and sisters, i see you all are disagreeing with eachother about this..and i dont blame not a single one of you. Muslim or non-muslim, we all have our views upon this. It is truley wrong in my eyes, but i am ashamed to tell you all that i have a girlfriend,have had on for 6-7 months. She is very good to me and we are in a commited relationship...we do not practice any sexual intercourse or anything. she respects my every wish, until i know what is going on with me in religon wise situation. Like i have said before, This does not seem like a phase to me, b/c there has never been a point in my life where i was attracted to the opposite sex at all. I have been a tomboy eversince i can remember. I was that different child...so you are going to have to explain to me if i was born with this or not? My family are pure strict muslims and they love me and they have never hurt me for it to be environmental issue or mental. I am logical and sensable person. It has taken me along time of denial and changes to relaize this will not go away...and just 2 years ago i started researching and going over what is wrong with me and whi i am like this. But there was no answer for my question. I am sorry to inform you all that this might be the test i will fail brothers and sisters, it is too strong of a inner nafs for me to jump the barrier. I have been holding this inside me for a long time and it has torn me apart piece by piece. I have tred my best to keep it out of my life...but it is not like a regular desire with men wanting women sexually...it is different. I cannot begin to explain it. It is so hard keeping this inside... it kills me slowly. I have told all my frinds and well my appearance if very obvious. You can tell first hand i am gay no doubt about it.  I dont want to be at the pit of hell nor do i want to be hated by god like the khafir. But, whi did god do this to me? i could have been able and strong enough to handle anything and everything but this. Yet it is  something that is too inevitable to fail. I dont just like girls b/c someone told me too and i am not bi-sexual (a'oozoobilah), i am this way...and i honestly will die if i supress this inside of me. Literally i will die. The feeling is too strong and the temptation 3 times as hard. I dont know what to do, but go on with my life and pray and repent to god as much as i can for the rest of my life. I am sorry everyone. I dont need lectures...but i guess i cant really get much here like a few people have told me. I am thankful for your scholarly information, but i know all of what you have said. But, if someone knows something that can actually help me... Please extend your thoguhts to me. Thank you all                                     [wlm] Nicky A.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
se7en
01/18/03 at 01:48:30
as salaamu alaykum, braveheart here's a website that might be of help to you inshaAllah: [url=http://www.straightway.org.uk/]The StraightWay Foundation - Resources on Islam and Sexuality[/url] - British organisation providing resources on Islam and homosexuality etc. based on sound sources, scholarship and careful reflection. Our approach consists of evidence, understanding and advice. We especially address those who call themselves "Gay Muslims".

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
jannah
01/18/03 at 07:34:50
[quote]But, whi did god do this to me?[/quote] [slm] Sister Allah gives us many tests in our life. Just remember that Allah gives you nothing that is more than you can bear. You can handle this and you can pass this test. This whole life is about not giving into your nafs and trying to rise above it to a spiritual more divine plain. [color=purple]On no soul doth God place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray): "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith." Quran 2:286 Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Prophet and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of God?" Ah! Verily, the help of God is (always) near! Quran 2:214 [/color]
01/18/03 at 07:35:42
jannah

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
amatullah
01/18/03 at 23:02:56
[wlm] Nicky I am not going to lecture you like you asked not to but girl you need a wake up call. [quote] but it is not like a regular desire with men wanting women sexually...it is different  [/quote] News flash: there [i]is[/i] no regular desire! I don't think I need to explain further really. If you mean it is more than just a physical thing, then you should know there most healthy men-women relationships are based on alot more than that. How do you think people are happy in marriage obviously it takes more than the bedroom. It is intellectual stimulation, emotional support, humor, everything all together... [quote] i could have been able and strong enough to handle anything and everything but this[/quote] I think you are setting yourself up. I think you know you are a strong person masha'Allah. And you know that many people are tested with different ways. What if your every single cell was craving heroin? What if you were quadropolegiek and can only communicate anything at all by grunts not this elequant style? I think you know there are worse things to live with. You just don't want to acknowledge your own strength in dealing with this. We are not animals, that we are overcome by desire and have no say in it. Otherwise wouldn't the rape be justified? [quote] but i guess i cant really get much here like a few people have told me [/quote] Please don't listen to those people and that [i]voice [/i]. We may not be able to solve your problems but then again...you, your whole life is NOT just a problem. So stick around and learn and talk about other things that have to do with Islam, or not. And even though we don't know how to help, we do love you as our sister in Islam. That is why I ask you to know that when you strengthen your faith, it becomes easier to deal with any problem regardless of its nature. Trust me dear sister, as you grow up the problems may not get easier i will not lie, BUT you gain skills to cope much better. You will not die literaly even at this age from having a problem like what you have. Half of the Muslim population of teens would be dead for loving singers and other unhealthy desires. I am not belittling your pain. But you are not the only one with pain. I hope that can give solice in its self?! Anyway, the nature of growing up, has to do with thinking differntly, making better choices and living in submission to Allah's will. Even in the way to dress, most of us wouldn't be caught dead wearing some things we used to. No one is born with a hijab or a beard. It's a process of growing. Don't be so hard on yourself and know it is not forever that you will where you are now. even for the parts we want to keep. change is a guarantee. And know when you come closer to Allah, He will love you till He becomes the light you see life with. The prophet saw told us in a hadeeth qudsi: I am as My servant expects Me to beI am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed. Another thing you might want to try is fasting. Here is another hadeeth qudsi about it: Fasting is Mine and it I who give reward for it. [A man] gives up his sexual passion, his food and his drink for my sake. Fasting is like a shield, and he who fasts has two joys: a joy whin he breaks his fast and a joy when he meets his Lord. The change in the breath of the mouth of him who fasts is better in Allah's estimation than the smell of musk. [quote]i am not bi-sexual (a'oozoobilah)[/quote] I am curious why do you seek refuge in Allah when you said bi-sexual but not the other? [quote] repent to god as much as i can for the rest of my life [/quote] I am not being funny when I say this but do you know what repentance entails? Please try writing to the counsellor in the islamonline.org maybe they have the experience I found one person who wrote to them this: Question As-salaamu alaykum ! I have a very serious problem. I feel attracted to people of the same sex (men), and I find this absolutely disgusting. Let me inform you, I do not for one moment think it's genetic or that I was born this way, or that it's normal. I know what happened to the People of Lut (alayhi salaam), and I seek refuge in Allah. My problem is, I just can not seem to stop these feelings. What worries me even more, is that IF I get married, how will I ever be able to feel attracted to my wife? How will I be able to fulfill her needs? What will I tell her? What will I tell my parents? Would it not be betrayal to my wife if I didn't tell her about my feelings before marriage? And if I do tell her, she'll never marry me. It's a dilemma for me. More importantly, i don't want to tell anyone about this problem of mine, this disease. Perhaps it is wise I don't get married? If I don't, what excuse will I give my parents? I hope you can understand all these issues. I just do not know what to do. Name of Counsellor  Asuman Martone   Answer Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim As-salaamu alaykum dear brother in Islam First of all, let us ask Allah for His guide and help, to find the best answers for you. I want to congratulate you for your inner struggle. You are trying to live your life accordingly to what Allah has taught us. I see you are a strong person. Of course, this is disgusting, but I would like to call your attention to the part of yours that is strong enough to admit this difficult and that is trying to find the best way to deal with this, that is trying to make plans to future, and that is intending to be true to other people. Be sure, Allah will reward you for that. Also, I feel you are scaring yourself with many ‘if’s’. Nothing is better than the experience in itself, for you to conclude what really IS . When you are in the situation , you see many other ways out, that you could not see before, when you were only thinking of or imagining “what can happen IF this or IF that”. The most important are your beliefs, is your faith, is your wish to live and feel accordingly to what we learn in Islam. This is your “guiding star” to whatever happens in your life. Now, supported by that , you have to have experiences, to know yourself better, maybe to open yourself to the possibility of establishing a healthy relationship in marriage with someone you can trust and feel good with and about. There are many factors that can make homosexual tendencies come up. May it be traumatic events in childhood, difficult relationship with authorities (parents) in life, or a greater sensibility than what is called the “normal” ( but still so, is normal). Sometimes to admire characteristics in other people ( male or female characteristics) are often a signal of things we would like to have in ourselves, or of things we wanted to have in our relationships. Depending on how it is understood, it can generate many wrong ideas about it. So, how deeper can you understand your tendencies? What, if you search deeper into your feelings, try to understand what these tendencies mean? Pray, read the Qur’an, do psychotherapy if it is possible, and you will see there is much to learn about yourself still. There are lots of constructive solutions for this condition. The horizon is open for you to know much about yourself. Just do not be stuck only in “ifs”. Fasten to your faith in Allah and go for life. If you do not run any risk, you will be running a bigger one. Feel free to write us whenever you want. We will be praying for everything goes well, in your life - fi-aman-Allah
01/18/03 at 23:05:26
amatullah

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
deenb4dunya
01/22/03 at 21:48:24
Assalamu Alaikum My [u]Dear[/u] Sister Nicky... Whatever you did, are doing or plan to do... please remember one thing... YOU CAN'T DO IT ALONE... YOU *NEED* ALLAH'S HELP... ALLAH (Swt) says to each and everyone of us: [i]When My servants ask you about Me: I am near. I answer the call of the supplicant calling upon Me. So they should also answer Me and trust in Me that they might be guided. (Surah 2:186) [/i] PLEASE PLEASE.. MAKE LOTS OF DU'AA *EVERY* DAY... MANY TIMES A DAY. CONTINUOUSLY, WITH FULL CONFIDENCE AND ASSURANCE THAT YOU WILL BE ANSWERED... ESPECIALLY IN THOSE SPECIAL TIMES... DURING RAMDAAN, AFTER SALAH, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.. RAISE YOUR HANDS CONTINOUSLY... AND ALLAH [B]WILL[/B], *HE WILL* ANSWER... Remember, you may not think you can do it, you may think its impossible, but is Allah not capable of doing anything He pleases? And know taht you are in our prayers too... everyone... *PLEASE MAKE DU'AA FOR NICKY* [B]EVERYONE!![/B] NICKY, CLICK HERE-->  http://www.jannah.org/articles/duah.html] Sincerely, your sister, Deen
01/22/03 at 21:50:47
deenb4dunya

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
braveheart49
01/23/03 at 22:02:02
[slm] brothers and sisters,                                           I respect what each and everyone of you said to me and you are right, ofcourse what ever is written in the Quaran is correct. I do not disagree with what god says is Haram. That would be Haram itself, i am simply trying to find a way if it was even possible for a "homosexual" to live this life, not sleeping around, but finding a life partner, which is very possible. But, i am assuming there is no way for that to happen since marriage is said to be between a man and a woman and nothing else but that. I have been trying very hard to pray 5 times a day and du'ah to Allah, i just need some more time. If i didnt love islam so much i would tell you all exactly what i thought...and lived my life the way i pleased, but honestly im respect myself and others more than that...and going to jannah means more to me than anything. When i said something to refer to against Bi-sexuals...i did not mean it to be in a bad way,i just meant it was usually bi-sexual people that made homosexuality look like a choice. B/c it really is not...but if we are muslims or any other religon we have to supress what god has given us for the rest of our lives. I have suppressed this for a very long time. I will admit that, but it has been very very hard,it felt like my insides were being torn apart. I just also wanted to say how dare you reflect this in the state of drug addiction or alcohol addiction, or whatever the case maybe that CAN be changed. Its not something i can change in 2 months and slowly rehabilitate myself from THINK ABOUT It! Im not living on drugs....I have never heard of anyone going to try and change them selves from GAY to striaght and it actually work...PEOPLE WHO WANTED to change...did not, so EXPlain that ???? SO infact that proves a real homosexual that has felt it eversince childhood like myself, cannot change something permenant. You can not tell em we can remove this from me, you have no presonal experience what so ever to tell me or any other gay person anything. All you can tell us is god be with you and what you know the Quaran says. But, i am replying not to say this,but to say that I will try slowly and strongly to be more faithful and make du'ah as much as i can aswell as pray 5 times. I know i am a  strong person aswell as muslim... inshAllah i will get through this peacefully with a happy ending and afterlife. Thank you brothers and sisters who have given me some encouraging advise and NOT lectured me such as SOME did. God be with you all.                                    Laters, Nicky A. R.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
sofia
01/23/03 at 23:27:59
As-salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah, sister Nicky I originally thought I had nothing to contribute here (and I still may not). I'm always shocked by this topic, period, but when it comes from Muslims, my question is: since when is it ok to have a girlfriend/boyfriend (let alone a homosexual relationship) before marriage? Anyhow, I have some questions that I hope you don't mind my asking (these are rhetorical questions, ie, answer them in your heart - no need to post them). 1-Do you think that Allah is incapable of anything? 2-Do you think Allah is unjust? 3-Do you think Allah would put characteristics that He abhors  (ie, "uncontrollable" urges to do haraam) in an innocent person? Just to clarify, there are plenty of babies who are born addicted to crack (b/c their mothers took crack/cocaine during pregnancy). Due to circumstances they did not create for themselves, they are born addicted to drugs. It's in their "genes." But guess what? They cannot grow up feeding on crack and become healthy individuals. They go through painful withdrawal on the road to becoming "clean," until eventually, they can become healthy individuals, by the will of Allah. My point is not about the tendency or urge to do something. We all have some sort of vice that we have to work against. If we didn’t, we'd be "perfect," and then, what would be the point of being tested in this life? My point is about actually acting out on those tendencies that we will be judged by. For example, there are plenty of people who have a "tendency" to get angry quickly. Ever since childhood, they had this temperament. Through an inner jihaad [struggle] on their part, Allah will reward them for resisting the urge to get angry. Allah knows each of our struggles. In order to improve ourselves, we have to constantly stand guard, constantly in a state of mujaahidah, until insha'Allah, Allah will make it easier on us. He knows our sincerity - when we really mean we want to change and ask Him to help us, He will, no doubt. And with every sacrifice we make to please Allah, He will replace something we gave up with something better. Allah says in a Hadith qudsi, that when we come walking to Him, He comes running to us. So start walking. We all need to start walking to Allah. Allahu a'lam, you're on the right track by resolving to work harder on more important issues, such as our daily prayers, du'aa [supplications], etc. These are like the fuel that keep us "running," and our weapons against shaytaan, who will take us down the "other" road quite easily without these weapons. May Allah help you, and reward you through this struggle. There is a very common du'aa (found in the Qur'aan, Surah Baqarah:201) that you may know. We should say this du'aa all of the time, in our prayers, out of our prayers, etc. "Rabbanaa 'aatinaa fid-dunyaa Hasanatan, wa fil 'akhirati Hasanatan, wa qinaa 'adhaaban-naar." "Our Lord, give us what is good (the best) in this world, and what is good (the best) in the Hereafter, and save us from the torment of the fire."
NS

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
UmmWafi
01/24/03 at 00:27:59
[slm] Sr Nicky First and foremost, let me assure you that you are in my thoughts and du'a.  You are indeed very brave to have come forward and reveal your innermost secret and pain.  It is not easy, I understand, but Alhamdulillah, you have the courage.   Secondly, let me assure you that you are not alone.  Regardless of the fact we are Muslims dispersed all over the world, still, we are all beset with problems and sins, minor or major.  May Allah Forgive each and every one of us.  By virtue of that fact, none of us here should be judgemental nor condemning of another person, especially a soul that is trying to make sense of his/her life.  Perhaps we all have different interpretations of a problem, but still none of us can claim we are absolutely right.  Only Allah can claim 'Ilm al Haqq. Thirdly, you need to ask yourself if you are serious in finding a path towards attaining peace and equilibrium within you.  Reading your posts, I was struck by all the conflicting thoughts and emotions you must be having and also all the confusion.  It may seem like an uphill task to sieve through all those jumble and come to a clear understanding but it can be done.  You must first badly want to find that path.  Insya'Allah you will be guided. Fourthly, throw out all the so-called theories and literature written by so-called experts on human psychology and sexuality that emphasises on the hedonistic side of the mind.  There are currently many conflicting research on sexuality and many inconclusive ones too.  Naturally, homosexual rights groups advocate the idea that homosexuality is a genetical determination and not environmental.  However, the study that supposedly concludes this is fraught with contradictions and loopholes (u can read abt this exhaustively on the Net).  Ok, some might argue that, well, even the studies that show homosexuality is an envionmental product are not conclusive.  True, that is why, at the end of the day, when we are stuck with a problem and there can seem to be no answer, we return to the Holy Qur'aan.  Allah Created us so He will not burden us with something that is contrary to our fitrah.  That will make Him an unjust god which He is not.  What does it say in the Qur'aan ? That sexual relationships between people of the same sex is forbidden, classic example is the followers of Prophet Lut AS.  Note, the Qur'aan says that sexual relationships amongst the same sex is wrong but it does not mention anything about love between the same gender.  And the two malaikah do not cancel brownie points for doubts and intentions you know. You mentioned above about how what you feel is not the same as sex between man and woman.  Sister, it doesn't matter whether it is sex between man and woman or sex between the same gender or killing or lying or raping or usury or whatever, it is about your relationship and feelings towards Allah SWT and what you understand as your role and rights.  If a woman is married and has very strong sexual desires for a man who is not her husband, should she indulge ? And if she does, would her sin be worse than if a homosexual carries out sexual liaisons ?  It doesn't work that way.  In fact, we should not be tallying the weight of the sin, we should instead strive to look at the effects of the act itself. The Western world is full of so-called encouraging support like coming out, gay emancipation etc but what do they hope to achieve ?  Listen, have you ever seen a straight couple come out ? Why ? Because it is unnecessary.  The homosexual rights group claim that homosexuality is normal and yet they feel the need to be different by coming out ?  There are many issues sweety, but this is not the platform. I have avery very close friend who is male and who confides in me that he has homosexual tendencies.  He is a Muslim, a practising one in fact.  He first "discover" the homosexual tendencies when he was 12 and now he is 32.  For 20 years he too grappled with so many issues and pain.  Now, he is well adjusted and Insya'Allah doing his Hajj soon.  I once asked him how he came to terms with everything.  He told me something very simple and so true.  Something all of us should learn from.  "I am Muslim first and anything and everything else second".  Today, he is a successful person and a very good friend.  He has a companion who is of the same wavelength as him. They are very close friends but they do not transgress that very fine line between the permissible and the non permissible.  Alhamdulillah. Nicky dearest, there is no hard and fast and QUICK rules and solutions to life problems.  You have to be patient.  Annoying word I know but very important :)  You have to go through life and make sense of who you are.  Many people have said many things here and I guess at the end of the day, it is still up to you.  May Allah Guide you to keep the right path. At the end of the day, you just have to remember two very important things : 1) It is easier to avoid sin when one is away from the source of temptation  2) It is never Allah's fault..... Keep in touch and if you need to talk you may e-mail me :) May Allah Provide you with all the strength that you need. And oh..more courage too :) Wassalam.
01/24/03 at 00:33:53
UmmWafi

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
se7en
01/24/03 at 12:16:30
as salaamu alaykum, [quote]I have never heard of anyone going to try and change them selves from GAY to striaght and it actually work[/quote] I know a Muslim brother who is struggling with this as well, who is working hard to preserve his marriage, and it is an effort, but he's doing okay, alhamdulillah.   There are countless unspoken stories like his, so please don't assume they are not out there. wasalaam

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
oneway2paradise
01/24/03 at 20:03:18
[slm]  I'm also wondering how healthy it is for the two men on the "same wavelength" to spend time together.  I suppose it could be two ways.  One way is that it would be too tempting to give in to curiosity.  The other is that they strengthen eachother's resolve.  Allahu alim.   For sister Nicky, I wish I had a simple answer for you.  I wish I could help.  I noticed in your first post that you said you are very religious but you don't always pray 5 times a day or wear hijab.  What do you mean by religious?  Prayer is the first thing we will be asked about on Day of Judgment.  It is very important.  Instead of trying to pray the obligitory prayers, why don't you try to reach the level of trying to pray all of the Sunnah prayers in addition to the fard?  Get to the point where you feel disappointed if you missed praying Tahajud.  Insha Allah, let us all strive for this.  Our only purpose in life is to worship Allah.  We do not own our bodies.  Just like someone said, let's not compare the "weight of our sins" but think about who we are disobeying.  We all sin, like I said.  So, these are words of reminder for myself, you, and all who read this, insha Allah.  Everyone has something to struggle with.  Before being Muslim, music was my religion.  I studied classical vocal training for many years.  I loved all kinds of music and it was a part of my soul.  However, I gave it up because it is haram.  Now, I have nasheed and Qur'an.  The hijab wasn't the most difficult part of becoming a Muslim for me, telling my family wasn't hard....giving up the music was the most difficult.  Alhamdulillah.  There are many struggles.  Try to fill up your time with worship of Allah.  Give up the T.V., give up books that aren't beneficial.  Memorize Qur'an, read tafseer, study anything related to religion and spend time in prayer.  Join a halaqa, wear hijab.  Dressing and acting like the opposite sex is haram, too. Now, I have heard of cases where a baby was born with deformed genitals so the doctor did surgery to make them look like a boy or girl whichever was easiest in that particular case.  Many of them turned out to be the opposite sex of what the doctor tried to make them.  Maybe in some case like this, there is no choice in the matter because they are not actually gay, but just have the wrong sexual organs.  Allahu alim.  I don't know about your situation.  Insha Allah khair.  May Allah guide us all. [slm] [Edited by Admin]
01/24/03 at 23:05:58
jannah

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
al-tawbah
01/25/03 at 01:56:08
asalamu alaikum, little sister. my name is roger, and i am a revert to the truth that is islam.    this all came about for me when i was studying to be a christian minister. allah*swt* in his mercy guided me away from a multitude of sin, among them drunkenness, drug abuse, and sexual sin. i used to be among those who tried to justify illegal sexual activity by rationalizing and telling myself and others that the sins that were referred to in the history of lut were actually attempted rape and inhospility, and people that would prostitute themselves to others of their gender in religious rituals while worshipping a false god. it was not easy for me to look myself in the mirror and admit that i had been wrong about these things. i think that many people misinterpret what qur'an actually says about homosexuality, and thus make those who suffer from same sex attractions even more distressed. these inclinations are nothing more than the shaitan whispering in your ear, my sister.    see them for what they are.    they are merely moral obstacles, and they can be overcome.    it is also far easier to avoid sin, than to succumb to it, and walk away from it. we all have moral obstacles, and this simply happens to be one of yours. as far as those that will tell you that those who have such inclinations are doomed to hell... do not allow them to influence you.    judgement is for allah*swt* alone, and any who attempt to judge another for his/her trials puts himself on the same level as allah*swt*.    this is unacceptable on their parts.    try to remember that it is difficult for them to realize that the sin lies not in your inclinations, but rather the person allowing such inclinations to grow into unnatural lust and upon acting on these inclinations. i have come to learn that what i was looking for in other men was not sex, but rather intimacy.     the two are not necessarily the same.    actually, i have found there to be a big difference. the relationships i have now with men, are far more intimate than they were with men that i sinned with.    the men that i am close to now, know of my past, and of my repentance.    they care very much about me, and i of them.    no man or woman that i sinned with ever cared about me as much as my brothers and sisters do.    these people want only that the will of allah*swt* prevail in my life and that i be a true and faithful servant to him.    i feel the same way about them.    what i was looking for was not something that i would ever find in any sexual activity. if we act upon our inclinations that are contrary to the rasool, we are putting our own will ahead of that of allah. remember, my sister that it is not this duniyaa that matters, but rather the next one. qur'an teaches us that if two among us commits lewd acts, for both to be punished, but if they repent and mend their ways to leave them be.    allah*swt* is merciful and oft forgiving. this is something that puts many muslims at a loss.    most people cannot grasp the concept that one can be gay and not act upon it.    they cannot understand that gay and straight are merely labels and that different people may have different definitions of what they mean.    i have been chaste for three years now.    this process in my life began before i even realized that i had a muslim heart. ( i reverted 2 years ago this spring, although i had dismissed the lie called trinity some time before that and even fasted at hajj and ramadan in solidarity with my muslim brothers and sisters.)     the point is though, that this can be overcome, just as can any moral obstacle or moral illness. the thoughts that you have, my sister, are shaitan attempting to lead you astray from allah*swt*    they are nothing more than that.    with all due respect to the sister that suggested that you attempt to transfer your feelings to males, i would not advise this.    there is no healing where there is sin, and many of the "ex-gay" xian ministries made this same mistake.    their hearts were in the right places, but they did not think this completely out beforer advising people.    not to mention that many of the people involved tried to transfer their emotional feelings to jesus*pbuh* and hence had a warped idea of this prophet by doing this.   if you were to do this, then you would have another set of obstacles to overcome.     allah*swt* is so omnipresent that he knew centuries ago who you and i would be.    he knew that this dialogue would take place and he knew what each of us would say. as far as whether or not this feeling will go away.... allah*swt* alone knows.    do i still have them?    yes.    do i allow them to grow and turn into more than fleeting thoughts?    no.    i also have these thoughts for women, but as i am unmarried, i do not allow the thoughts for women to develope into lust either.    i cannot fathom that shaitan will ever stop trying to lead me astray.    he is after all, shaitan.    i know that this is not what you wanted to hear, but i can tell you this.    with time and your small victories, it gets much much easier to walk away from these feelings. will you be happy if you marry?    allow me to answer that with a question.    will you be happy if you step outside the guidelines that allah*swt* has set for us?    i sure wasn't.    it was not until i put his will ahead of my own that i even began to comprehend what true happiness is.    until that point, i denied myself the peace and joy that comes only from being his servant.    i am a far better servant to him if i endeavor to obey him than if i disobey him. all of the tiny bits of islamic ettiquette come together now.    even down to my clothing.    i have found that by not wearing tight or skimpy clothing that others are not as likely to make unwanted advances upon me.    even then it does not always work.    i put on the most asexual persona that i am able, but some people still look at me in a sexual manner.    but given my attempts to avoid this, it has become their problem, and not mine.     perhaps you might think about this aspect.    it is easier to walk away from this if you do not have others trying to tempt you into walking towards it. i know that many people have different outlooks on the veil.    to me, this is between that woman and allah*swt*    but perhaps you might consider it.    it may make you safer from others that might try to lead you away from allah*swt* i can understand your hesitation to speak with an imam.    i finally got the nerve to tell the one whom i most admired after he spoke of a brother whose son had stopped practicing islam because he felt that it does not tolerate homosexual activity.    this imam's response to him was to go in that case.    for islam does not need any of us.    it is we who need islam.    i knew he was right, but i also wanted him to know that nobody's life has to be like that.    this life, my sister, is what we choose to make of it.    we can choose to go with the flow and do what we want, or we can choose to make this life about what allah*swt* has set forth for us.    what we want doesn't account for squat!    it is what allah*swt* wants that matters.    i told my story to this tough cookie.    i let him know that i came to realize that it is NEVER too late to repent.    i told of how when things got tough, i turned to allah*swt* and he guided me out of harm's way.    repentance is a beautiful thing.    it glorifies allah*swt*.    do you know what this imam said after i had told him of my repentance?   ALHAMDULILLAH! perhaps others would not get this response from a different imam.    after all, allah*swt* is far more forgiving than people are.      but by the same token, he is an imam.    he is a very learned man.    when kindness is the proper response, he knows to give it.    he did not judge me, but rather saw that my struggle had not been easy, but saw also that my repentance was sincere that that the will of allah*swt* had prevailed when i allowed it to.    the day will come when every creature, great and small, shall submit to the will of the almighty.    i had simply chosen to do so willingly. i hope that this has given you some insight, my precious sister.    i am a member of a group called al-tawbah.    we have a discussion group in yahoo.    there are gay people ( although mostly males) and we have straight people who are there simply to support those who struggle with it.    may allah*swt* have mercy on them for showing such kindness.     you are also welcome to speak with me through email or instant messenger if you wish.    one of my personal email addresses is cornstaaarch@hotmail.com .    i ask that any that have been offended by any of the content of my post please accept my apologies and forgive me.    this was not my intent.    it is simply that i have been where this sister is, and as sordid as my story is, it is the truth.    i cannot erase my past.    i can only repent of it and never stop striving. wasalaam roger

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
bhaloo
01/25/03 at 10:10:20
[slm] First of all sister braveheart49 im sorry to hear of the difficult thing you are dealing with now.  It is not something genetic, but it is something that can be controlled and changed.  Alhumdullilah brother roger is living proof of this.  And I have heard of other people as well, here was one I came across on the net: http://209.17.95.115/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28369 Here was an article explaining that it is not genetic: http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html p.s. I want to thank sister Maliha and bro. Hanif for speaking up against the wrong actions, may Allah (SWT) reward you, and I wish we had more people like you commanding good and forbidding evil.  Jazak Allah khairen.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
eleanor
01/25/03 at 10:24:54
[quote author=al-tawbah link=board=lighthouse;num=1042412877;start=15#23 date=01/25/03 at 01:56:08]i have been where this sister is, and as sordid as my story is, it is the truth. [/quote] [slm] Roger thank you for sharing your story with us. Alhamdulillah I think we have all benefited from it.  Mubarak on becoming Muslim and welcome to the board! Insha Allah it will be good to have you posting here :) [quote]   i cannot erase my past.    i can only repent of it and never stop striving. [/quote] I think these words apply to all of us. Jazak Allah

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
UmmWafi
01/25/03 at 10:52:17
[wlm]  [quote]I'm also wondering how healthy it is for the two men on the "same wavelength" to spend time together.[/quote] Same wavelength here means that the two of them share the same interests, hobbies, intellectual abilities and maturity, method of thoughts etc. My friend has homosexual tendencies.  HIS friend do not. Ps Bro Roger, Ahlan wa sahlan to the Board and may we glean more insights from you Insya'Allah. Wassalam

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
braveheart49
01/25/03 at 21:30:28
[slm] all and Thank you brother roger very very much, your post was very deep and meaningful to me. Thank many of you for your personal notary. Honestly, your message made me cry, and i am not the sensitive type. The first time i ever came to this site and decided to post something here..i did not really take it seriously. I did not think i could find a solution through anyone elses eyes. But, there is only one solution, and from the day i have been reading these posts, i have been distant from my girlfriend...and i really do want to take the straight path to Allah *sub hana wa'tala*. Brother you make alot of sense... i guess i will have to accpet being gay, but not act upon it. Shaitan is what posses me. I am just scared that if i ever decided to marry a man, me and him would be unhappy, and marraige is suppose to be the door to happiness, a gift (somewhat) from god...there are problems that come with it yes, but... i dunno. I want to leave this life and that time is coming soon. I just need to get my head straight, and realize that god is most important that material objectives. It will be weird dressing feminine again though...i will be very uncomfrtable. But, i do want to wear the viel though...alittle bit more into the future. And yes brother roger, repentance is my main keyword in everything that has been said. And as someone else has posted..."You cannot do this alone" they are right, i need Allah's help and aswell someone else that is and/or has been going through this struggle. Being happy in Jannah is more important than here and now, but does not mean i cannot stop living am i right? there is nothing Harram about Skydiving, parashooting or doing extreme and dangerous sports?  ASwell as music, do i have to give that up? My american friends? My fiends are like my second family, and i have chosen them wisely...Am i allowed to keep them...or am i forced to leave them b/c they are not muslims. I will find my way, and thank you again Brother Roger, i will say i admire you for your success in your personal moral struggle and your revert.  I will say i have realized more that i do not want to dissapoint my parents, my family, religon, name, nor Allah *sub hanawa' talla*. I know god is the almighty forgiver, and yes he is the one that knows our destinys. I will be stronger, definetly now that I know there are survivors such as you brother... if you can make it, then i know i can. I will not lie... i will need a little bit of time, but i will try my hardest to be more faithful and keep my sefl away from sin. I keep you all in my prayers as i know i am in yours. Allah be with you all.                                        Nicky A.R

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
panjul
01/25/03 at 23:59:00
[slm] there is nothing Harram about Skydiving, parashooting or doing extreme and dangerous sports?  ASwell as music, do i have to give that up? My american friends? Nicky, I think that's the least of your concerns for right now. Don't worry about those things right now. those are trivial issues. You don't have to give up your non-muslim friends. However, I hope that you surround yourselves with positive people, people who will support your right decisions and respect the boundaries that you want to create around you. But also I think it would be a good idea to find some good muslims, whom you could possibly confide in. Nicky, u can instant message me if you want and I can give you my email address and maybe we can keep in touch. :) I will keep you in my prayers. Love, Your sister in Islam

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
al-tawbah
01/27/03 at 10:07:25
<My fiends are like my second family, and i have chosen them wisely...Am i allowed to keep them...or am i forced to leave them b/c they are not muslims. > salam, my sister!    i wanted to comment on something that you said in your last post regarding your friends. i know that many of the ummah do not feel as i do about the matter, but i have learned, not just through my studies and my walk with allah*swt* in this duniyaa, that allah*swt* really is the one who determines who is and isn't muslim.    your friends may be muslim and not know it.    i certainly had a muslim heart and didn't know it.    i thought that when i was fasting with my muslim brothers and sisters in solidarity, that i was just being a good christian.    to me, muslims were simply christians with a different label. i now have a very close friend named enrique ( who incidentally knows of my past and still makes me feel more loved than anyone that i ever had a haram relationship with) and he has taken to saying "alhamdulillah" quite often, and what's more, meaning it from the depths of his heart.    to me, he is muslim.    he speaks little english, but his heart knows to cry out one of the most important things that any muslim can say. also, my best friend's wife had a mother that was christian.    this woman had 14 children, and raised them all to be good muslims, the eldest of whom is now a shaykh.    this is not a case of a woman marrying a muslim man and allowing him to raise the children to be muslim.    she did this herself.    if this does not indicate a muslim heart, then i don't know what does. many people have simply not reached the spiritual awareness that lets them know that deep inside they are muslims.    but insha allah, they will know it in this duniyaa, and if not in this one, then in the next. recently, a friend asked me if i had gotten anyone to revert to islam.    i had to honestly tell him that such a thing is not possible.    only allah*swt* can do that, and qur'an teaches us that there is no compulsion in religion.    but often, allah*swt* does grant us the opportunity to be used as the tools that he uses for doing this.    what an honor that he will allow us the privilege of seeing him glorified at such a close level in another person.    truly all praise is due to allah*swt* so just live your life in the most islamic way that you can and let others see this.    this is the best way that you can be a servant to allah*swt* do not worry about marriage as yet, my sister.    this will come when allah*swt* wills it.    he is in control mof all, and it is when we try to control things that we make mistakes.    if a person has escaped these inclinations enough that he or she can marry and have a happy marriage, then that person should do so.    but if he/she can't, then that person should develope his/her own soul in other areas and nuture those gifts.    we are each a different soul, and allah*swt* created no two of us alike, but the guidelines that he has given us suit ALL souls.    where one of us is weak, another is stronger, and vice versa. do not try to analyze if you were born with these inclinations or not.    i have my own opinion on it, and it does not always agree with the general opinion on this, and it is also really complicated.    and ultimately it does not matter anyway.    this analyzation is simply something that "gay rights" activists use to try to make what is wrong, seem to be right.     these activists would be far better off trying to help those with these inclinations try to walk away from them, rather than making them feel better about what is haram in the eyes of the almighty.    after all, how can a lie be right?    what matters is not how we get our moral obstacles, but rather how to overcome them.    i know many of the ummah who have different obstacles to overcome, and please know that their struggles are just as hard for them, as ours are for us. as far as the veil, as i said before, this is between you and allah*swt*.    i have heard many say that a woman is only truly muslim if she wears it, but i am nobody to determine this. however, it does seem to me, that it may help you a good deal.    it would protect you from predators, both man and women. i also know that if i see a woman whose car is broken down, or needs assistance in some way, that it is safe for me to do so because she is my sister.    if she has no veil, i do not feel as confident if i stop to offer aid.    it is just a thought.    ultimately, it will be what is in your heart that determines what you do about this. in the meantime, develope your relationships with other women into healthy ones that you would have with any sister.    you will not regret doing this.    i promise you.    i did it, and i have never felt so loved and felt so much intimacy and closeness with anyone as i do from those with whom i have done this.     just as love is from the heart, and not the loins, so too, is repentance.    the two will go hand in hand.    i have also found that when i have had a hard time, if i fast and make duas over the matter, that when that battle is over, not only has the battle been won, but i feel closer to allah*swt* than i did before that battle took place. recently, i had a very hard time with something totally unrelated to the matter of sexuality.    my heart felt as though it would break, and when i kept crying alhamdulillah anyway, allah used a sister, who incidentally is the one who introduced me to this board (asalamu alaikum, my sister, and jazak allah khair) to point out to me again that it is an honor to suffer for the sake of allah*swt*.    not for the pain that we endure, but rather for how he will use this pain to bring his servants closer to him.   so too is this with any struggle.     ALHAMDUILLLAH!!!!    ALLAHU AKBAR!!!! often, 10 people will tell us something and they will all say the same thing., but it takes yet another for us to feel what is being said. once again, you are more than welcome to enter a dialogue with me personally if there are things that you are uncomfortable discussing on the board.    unfortunately this is a delicate matter and does cause offense by some if it is not handled properly.    often, i feel as though i am speaking 2 different languages, as we do not understand totally what another feels if we have not undergone it ourselves.    if i say something to you, or you to me, another may not understand what we actually mean.    it is kind of like how we know that qur'an is in arabic only, and that anything else is a translation because there is no word for word translation that is possible.    so if you ever feel as though what you need to convey may not be taken properly, please do not hesitate to let me know.    there are plenty of things that others can say to support us in our struggles, and for these things, we should be grateful.    it appears to me as though many others have tried very hard to be supportive and non-judgemental about this matter.    the last thing i would want to do is to offend those who have gone out of their ways with such an outpouring of love.    the fact that perhaps they have never had those feelings for their own gender does not in any way, shape or form, negate the fact that they want only for the will of allah*swt* to prevail in our lives.    that is the greatest gift that any human can offer to another. you remain in my duas, my beautiful little sister! wasalaam love, roger

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
oneway2paradise
01/28/03 at 18:54:27
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem [slm] Praise be to Allah.  I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad  [saw] is His final slave and Messenger.  May Allah forgive me if I say something wrong.  May He forgive all of us and guide us in the straight path.  I noticed that my last post was edited by the admin.  I don't know if I said something bad, which was not intended, or if my post was too long.  I apologize if I have ever offended anyone. Sister Nicky,  One thing that concerns me is the people you surround yourself with.  I think that this is part of the problem.  If you spent your time with Muslims, the environment would not be conducive to having a girlfriend.  It is not wrong to associate with non-Muslims but it is wrong to put them before your Muslim brothers and sisters or be on their side against Muslims.  Also, being around them can be dangerous because they may unintentionally not have your best interests in their minds.  And it may be intentional.  Being a Muslim requires discipline in our lives no matter what our personal struggles may be.  It is so important to be around other Muslims for encouragement.  Try to busy yourself with Islamic activities and surround yourself with Muslims.  Whether or not people want to admit it, music is haram and it can have a negative influence.  If it is beautiful, it distracts us from the Qur'an.  If it is modern, maybe it encourages very bad behaviour.  Try listening to Nasheed and Qur'an instead.  I know this is difficult.  Someone mentioned to worry about your other problem first.  However, I think the environment of non-Muslims and music worsens the problem.  However, this is just my humble opinion and Allah knows best.  We must remember who we are disobeying and not how much we are suffering to try and give up our sinful ways.  Surround yourself with a good environment and it  will help,  insha Allah.  Insha Allah, I have said nothing offensive or sinful or incorrect.  I apologize for not having the hadith and verses on hand. Assalamu alaikum

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
al-tawbah
01/29/03 at 00:40:26
asalamu alaikum sister oneway, please do not be distressed at your post having been edited.    i am a moderator for a group that deals with things of this nature, and we are in a position where we must moderate EVERYONE.    this is unfortunate, but it is also something that must be done in order to keep control of the situation and maintain things in an islamic fashion. 9 out of 10 of the posts that are edited, are by people who meant no harm.    but please bear in mind that this IS a very awkward subject to moderate.    i am sure that allah*swt* knows your intentions, and this is how you will be judged for anything that you say. while islam does teach us that acting on such inclinations is wrong, we also must bear in mind that unfortunately, ignoring it does not make it go away. the fact of the matter is that there has to be people before this generation who had to deal with this and succeeded.    if this were not so, then qur'an would not mention it at all, much less encourage repentance, which truly it does. i think that the moderator has been most gracious to allow this discussion for the sake of helping our sister.    jazak allah khair for your kindness, my sister.    insha allah, you will be rewarded for this.    i know that such a matter is difficult for those who have never dealt with this struggle before, and the fact that anyone who hasn't had this as one of their tests shows a great deal of love and compassion for going out of their way to offer so much encouragement. i am also inclined to agree with you, sister oneway about nicky's need to be around other muslims and within a muslim environment. nicky, the fact that you are very carefiul about the friends that you have is very important.    please be sure to continue such prudence. also, sister nicky, have you begun as of yet to pray 5 times each day?    certainly more than this is better, but 5 times is fard. if you haven't yet, allow me to point out to you that aside from the wrath of allah*swt* there is another excellent reason for doing this.    as he is the one that will guide you out of this, he is the one that you must turn to. also, when we salat 5 times each day, our lives are richer for it.    we are drawn closer to him, and it is all one big circle which always leads back to him. you are very fortunate that you have not acted on these thoughts.    it is far easier to walk away from sin that you have not commited, than to do so, and get caught up in that vicious trap, and then try to walk away from it.    too often people actually convince themselves that this behavior is not wrong.    i was convinced that there was nothing wrong with it.    it was very difficult for me to admit that i had been wrong for so long. the fact that you know that it would be wrong to act on it is good as well. i found that many people who do act on their whims want nothing to do with me now.    they accuse me of being selfhating.    this could not be further from the truth.    i love myself more now than i ever did before.    to turn ones own will aside in favor of the will of allah*swt* is the greatest way to show love for oneself that is possible.    i suppose that some people want to say that i hate myself or that i hate them, or whatever so that they have an excuse not to make an honest moral evaluation of themselves.    i do not know why they think what they think, but then that is their problem, not mine.    insha allah, they will come to the same realization that i did, and if not, then, allah will deal with them justly. make time for salat, my sister.    often, i am very busy as well, but i make them up as soon as i am able, and i am better off for it.    it is after all one of our pillars. it is when we do not make time for allah*swt* to remain in our hearts that there is a void, and please believe that the shaitan will take every opportunity to fill that void if he can.    it must remain our priority. once again, jazak allah khair to all who have offered their duas and encouragement regarding this matter, and also to the moderator for allowing everyone to do so.    i know that this is a very sensitive topic.    i also hope that i have not caused any offense to anyone with anything that i may have said. remember always my sister, that while you did not choose your test, the way that you respond to it is your choice.    there are far too many ways to live our lives in the right way, for us to ever step outside our boundaries given to us.    we have been given so much that is halal.    given this fact, we have no excuse to do anything that is haram. i hope to hear from you soon, sister, insha allah.    allah*swt* will guide you from this if you only open your heart to him.   you remain in my duas. wasalaam roger

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
jannah
01/29/03 at 00:55:40
[quote]I noticed that my last post was edited by the admin.  I don't know if I said something bad, which was not intended, or if my post was too long. [/quote] [slm] Sister you were sent a private message. Please let me know if you didn't receive it.

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
braveheart49
03/18/03 at 22:52:06
[slm] all,                I know it has been a very long while since i contacted or replied to many of your messages, i have just been busy with school and such. things are still the same, nothing has changed. I just wanted to say thank you to all of your private messages siters and brothers, especailly brother roger...b/c i know that i can relate to you most of all. You understand that feeling inside and how strong it is...and the fact that it is always there no matter what. All i can say is time and patience (al subareen), will guide me with Allah.                       Take care , Nicky

Re: homosexuality and ISlam
Dude
03/19/03 at 19:32:44
You sounded pretty desperate when you first posted…a little worrisome actually. Hopefully making new contacts and being able to freely discuss your troubles in a non-threatening environment has helped you out. If anything, you get a great variety of opinions here, and have probably been able to take some positive advise out of it all. Seems to me that you’re working through your issues. Life is tough for everyone at 19- and you’ve been given even tougher life challenges than most. Just remember: what doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Good luck Nicky! 8)
03/19/03 at 19:33:30
Dude

name change
lightningatnite
03/25/03 at 13:57:56
[slm] Perhaps the name of this thread should be changed.  The ulama have indicated that the actions of the People of Lut are so disgusting and against Allah's fitra that we should not become innured to speaking about them.  The implications of this horrible act in a society is disasterous. This is not to say that the individuals dealing with such problems should be ignored or ostracized, but due caution should be exerted when dealing with such issues in a public forum.  Imagine a title of "Mother Theresa and Pornography" or "St. Thomas and Abortion"...it sounds incongruous and disheartening.  Allah teaches us by example in the Quran and hadith to avoid desensitizing our hearts by speaking lightly of such issues. The age being mentioned here is a difficult one because of physiological reasons under any circumstances.  Perhaps one afflicted by this disease [of the heart] can consider treatment by a professional, although I'm not sure if such treatment is readily available. May Allah guide us all and rectify our condition :)
04/01/03 at 17:15:01
lightningatnite

Re: Questions about homosexuality
Dude
03/26/03 at 10:22:20
Lightningatnite, The problem here is that Nicky sourced out this “public” forum as a last resort. I think it is pretty obvious from her first post that she was desperate. She can’t really speak to anyone in her own family, or community for the exact fear you mentioned: being ostracized and / or ignored. That’s a very legitimate concern, if you ask me. Besides…is this really a public forum? I think it is safe to say that we all post in anonymity. That’s the best part of a secret identity. Also, when somebody from your community comes to you with a problem, your first response should be to offer a helping hand, not to shun them. Whatever one’s opinion may be regarding Nicky’s struggles, we need to remember two things: 1.      If we’re not in a similar situation as she is, we can’t really comment on how she should handle it. Homosexuality is not a disease or a condition…from what I see, it is one of those unexplainable things. Most of us are heterosexual, but some of us are homosexual. None of us know why. 2.      The discussion here seemed to have helped her out, if for any reason to vent. It does need to be pointed out that she’s young. That’s a big deal, because we’ve all seen what can happen to youth when they have problems and no outlet where they can vent. We’ve all been 19, and life is tough enough without having conflicting feeling about your sexuality. Heck…14-20 was pure torture for me, mostly because my mind was always on girls! I can’t begin to imagine what she’s going through! I think the best way to be supportive is to try and understand her situation, rather than dismissing it as a “condition” or “disease”.

Re: name change
mr-bean
03/26/03 at 12:55:37
[quote author=lightningatnite link=board=lighthouse;num=1042412877;start=30#35 date=03/25/03 at 13:57:56]   Perhaps the name of this thread should be changed.  The ulama have indicated that the actions of the People of Lut are so disgusting and against Allah's fitra that we should not become innured to speaking about them.  The implications of this horrible act in a society is disasterous. [/quote] [slm] the actions of the people of Lut are mentioned in the quran...so why should we be so straightjacketed in talking about it... ?  And in the hadith you will find lots of really, wierd stuff...really juicy stuff...stuff which would make your eyes grow wide...!!!!! in any case being attracted to the same sex is no big deal....it happens all of the time...for those of you in denial (not the river)....a lot of men in the gulf countries are gay...for example my roomate, a convert, went to Saudia Arabia to teach engilish in a high school...he was a  real macho athlete type guy...and he couldn't understand why some students kept coming to him and telling him, and pointing,  --- that student, that person is "open" -- are you interested??!!! Now as you can imagine my new muslim friend was pretty shocked when he figured out the meaning of "open"...and you can imagine he wasn't amused at being proposed to by some gay guy's wali!!!!!   But these things happen and they are really very common.  Why else  are there so many stories about religious scholars suddenly looking at a male youth with  the eye of desire and then suddenly forgetting the entire  quran as a consequence, and then going crazy about it afterwards !!!??? Also, i have always been amazed at the words that Lut (alaiyhis salam) told the gay men who approached his guests. They were not words  of blanket condemnation (at least the words in the quran) ...or how dare you £^$^...but rather:  "...My people! Here are my daughters! They are purer for you!..." Can you guys imagine this?  Can you imagine the prophet of God offering up his own daughters to some difficult gay guys?  Can you imagine offering up your own sisters or daughters to some gays???? Personally, I cant.  Such was the compassion of the prophets....are we not supposed to emulate that....?  What is the point of prophets if not to be followed and copied???  And really why did he propose such a sacrifice?  Because (i think) he knew that had those men married and tried to sincerely be true to their wives, then  their taste for homosexual activity would have gradually disappeared. Also, life is full of very unusual and difficult issues. For example, when my brother was an overseas medical intern in cairo he watched an operation where they turned a young teen who was physiologically a male into a female because the kid had been raised as a girl by the parents!!  The kid had some hermaphroditic characteristics, but the kid was male....so how does one deal with that?  What happens to the kid now?? If i had a sister who was gay i would suggest the following:  get involved in sports -- lots of sports,  be active.  that keeps the mind fresh, and the hormones in balance...well i think so... also, study a lot, work hard.  you know because i spend my whole day studying (i get paid to do it) that i sometimes completely forget that females exist (no i am not gay!!!)...and am only reminded of this when go I leave my office and ride the underground subway where there are lots of explict pictures to remind you that: yes, females definately do exist!!..so keeping busy makes one forgets one's basic desires... there is also another thing....unless one completes the very basic religious activities...one is liable not just to become gay but become something much worse...a murderer...committ suicide....and much worse.... the basic religious duties keep us in tune with the straight path, and the point why we have to do it so often is because we are such idiots that we are liable to move off the straight path very easily.... The regular prayer is so important and it is said in the quran "...prayer protects against vice and iniquity..."  So one who doesn't pray is  almost certain to deviate....and what is the biggest deviation?   Kufr.!   That is why the following hadith is so incredibly important....something whch everybody should memorize.... "...one of you behaves like the people of paradise until there is only an arms length between you and it, then what has been written overtakes you, and you act like the people of  hell  and you enter it; and one of you behaves like the people of hell-fire until there is between you and it only an armslength.  Then that which has been written overtakes you.  So you behave like the people  of paradise and you enter it..." The reason why the pious person suddenly became a potatohead and sinned and sinned and enter hell was because he neglected his religious duties...and so gradually then slid along the slippery path to greater and greater sin...all of which in the end plunged him him/her in hell.  Likewise the impious person suddenly becomes a resident in heaven because he/she takes up his/her forgotten relgious obligations and then excels as a muslim. The point is: once you give up your prayers and hanging around people who pray, anything can happen -- your strongest desires will be exploited by shaytan and you will be manipulated by shaytan like a  boy playing with his toy soldiers.  (actually there is a hadith about this, buy i forget the metaphor..) If for example, i were suddenly to give my prayers and stuff like that, you'd probably find me in the disco the next day with a big smile on my face with one scantily clad women wrapped around one arm and another around the other!!!!!! And I bet you, that if some these big bearded folk suddenly abandoned their prayers, they would have not women wrapped around each arm, but some men as well.....!!!  And well we won't get into the resulting phase transition in the long skirted muslimas...but you get the picture... So the point is: pray, don't be ashamed of your inner feelings, just try your best to control them.  God gives people all sorts of wierd inner feelings...some want to kill their teacher or some want to rape some girl and some want to have sex with the same sex....the point is you are tested on how you control them...not really about the unusual  thoughts  you can think up... Now  it is very difficult to tell a person fixated on something not to committ that sin, because their desires get so worked up that their brain goes on strike, and they easily convince themselves at the moment of sinful action that it is okay or they simply forget. But if you stick to your religious duties and stay busy then you will maximize your chances in conquering those illicit desires.... So good luck and may Allah give us all taufiq (success)....
NS
03/26/03 at 13:02:34
mr-bean

Re: Questions about homosexuality
panjul
03/26/03 at 19:29:16
[slm] Mr. Bean Lut (A) offered his daughters in marriage!! he didnt' *offer* them in the sense that a pimp (astaghferullah!) would offer women for sex! (astaghferuallah again!) Hmmmmmm...... how strange that ppl actually went up to a teacher like that......first time hearing something like that My husband tells me a lot of guys in pakistan gay too...cuz they can't get married till their 30s (gottat have lots of money for that big wedding so the whole city will know how much you spent that day) and so they cant' wait for that many years for sex...so they turn to each other....... many stop after getting married, many decide they like same sex even after marriage....

Re: Questions about homosexuality
mr-bean
03/27/03 at 07:58:47
[quote author=panjul link=board=lighthouse;num=1042412877;start=30#38 date=03/26/03 at 19:29:16] [slm] Mr. Bean Lut (A) offered his daughters in marriage!! he didnt' *offer* them in the sense that a pimp (astaghferullah!) would offer women for sex! (astaghferuallah again!) Hmmmmmm...... how strange that ppl actually went up to a teacher like that......first time hearing something like that [/quote] .... i was definitely not implying that prophet Lut was pimping his daughters.....!  by definition, prophets can basically do not wrong in a religious sense (contrary to what christians and jews  believe)...although they can make mistakes in terms of judgement and in worldly matters...so it is rather impossible for a prophet to be pimping his daughters....after all a prophet is rather different from the dude in satin trousers and a funny hat loitering around soho or  times square.... you will have to consult a bunch of the tafsir...but he was almost surely implying marriage....for example even in christianity a dad "gives away" his daughter  ...that doesn't mean he is pimping his daughter...but rather offering his daughter in marriage to a groom at church.... and by the way...the quote by Lut (alaiyhis salam)  is directly from the quran.....
03/27/03 at 08:02:44
mr-bean

Re: Questions about homosexuality
panjul
03/28/03 at 00:33:59
Well i'm glad mr. Bean. :) it's just that i felt very uncomfortable with they way you put it...even when it's directly from the Quran, the paragraph...the way it was put made me uncomfortable. :) it's cool

Re: Questions about homosexuality
Anonymous
03/29/03 at 03:02:35
slm I'm gonna go off on a tangent here: "...My people! Here are my daughters! They are purer for you!..."   I remember hearing a different interpretation of that verse. That Lut (as) by "daughters" meant women in general and not specifically his own daughters. Anyone else hear of this interpretation. Can anyone tell who espouses this view?

Re: Questions about homosexuality
humble_muslim
03/29/03 at 13:14:33
AA It's clear that whatever the detailed interpretation, the general meaning is "fulfill your desires in the halal way with women, and not in the haram way with men".
NS

Re: Questions about homosexuality
kandahar
04/01/03 at 07:47:42
salam braveheart, as u are still so young i think it is normal to expìerience some sort of sexual confusion; but it is not clear for me wether 1) u identify as a girl who likes other girls 2) u don't feel yourself fit into the cathegory of "female", eg u feel like you are a boy despite your female body in the second case, u maybe experiencing a "sexual identity disorder"; in any case, what i suggest u to do is to see a psychosexuologist (there are places where u can go anonimously) + continue praying and reading the quran. u know, there is an hadith which says "if u are willing to committ a sin, but u hold on and abstain from that sin, Allah (swt) rewards it as o good deed." another suggestion is stop reading books about homosexuality and start reading books about  the excellent muslim women like Aisha and Fatima and Khadija ; stop hanging out (if u do) with people who can trigger u to sin. u know, anyway it is common of young girls to have this fase of "homosexuality" when they are in their teenage years that's related to fear of the opposite sex (even if don't have any negative abuse background). hopefully, someday or another u will fall in love with the right man and the "homsexuality" problem will dissolve like a bubble.

Re: Questions about homosexuality
eleanor
04/01/03 at 10:26:35
[slm] Masha Allah Sis.Kandahar, well said :) (this is my forum so I am allowed to make posts which don't have much content :P )

Re: Questions about homosexuality
al-tawbah
04/03/03 at 00:30:39
asalamu alaikum all first off, sister nicky, all praise is due to allah*swt*.    he has shown you, that you are not doomed to live life a certain way.    you can allow him to guide you within the path that he has set for you, rather than succumbing to the whisperings of the shaitan.    alhamdulillah! you are always welcome to email me or message me here, or whatever.    i will not judge you for anything that you may be going through.    i am the last person to do that.    i have been down a long dark road, and been led into the light that is islam.    if allah*swt* saw fit to do that for me, then nobody is beyond his aid. i found the reference to lut*pbuh* interesting, given that so many pro-gay groups respond to that occurence.    they usually either state that the sin was the desire to rape the men, or inhospitality to strangers.    or else they simply try to dismiss it by perverting it to sound as though lut*pbuh* really were trying to prostitute his daughters. while the interpretation that he was referring to women in general is the one that i had always accepted ( at least since i stopped espousing the perverted one that it was rape and inhospitality that were the sin of the people) it seems to me that the idea is the same as if it were his own daughters that he was offering ( of course in the acceptable manner, rather than in sin).    this being that such behavior is not the will of allah*swt*    such behavior is the will of people.    it is not our will that matters.    it is his will that matters. for the brother that was concerned about the name of the thread, please forgive for any distress that it caused you or anyone else.    while i agree that it is a delicate subject, by the same token, it is spoken of in qur'an.    and we are also taught in qur'an that if these people repent and mend their ways, to leave them be for allah*swt* is merciful and oft forgiving.    repentance is a beautiful thing.    it glorifies allah*swt*    the subject has been moderated, and the sister doing it has been gracious to allow it to be discussed.    it gave others a chance to encourage this scared young sister in her tests.    the matter was discussed and moderated with good intentions.    this is what determines the outcome. while some people have this as a test for only a while, and others all their lives, we all have moral obstacles of some sort.    what they may be does notr matter nearly as much as whether we choose to overcome them, or allow ourselves to succumb to  the shaitan tempting us to do what has been forbidden.    shaitan will never stop trying to lead the faithful astray.    he is shaitan.    that is his job.    if he doesn't try to lead us astray one way, he will try another.    this is why we must turn to allah*swt* alone in aid for this, just as for everything else.    he alone protects us.    he alone is the one that can heal any type of moral ailment, just as he alone is the one who heals physical ailments. to give up hope on those who wish only to be faithful servants to allah*swt* is to impede them from glorifying him by refraining from or repenting of sin. may allah*swt* guide us all wasalaam roger

Re: Questions about homosexuality
braveheart49
04/08/03 at 23:42:25
Hello all,              you will be amazed if not shocked in what ive been deciding to do. My parents know im gay now, and khandahar no disrespect but i have no sexual disorder. I am just the way Allah (subhanna wa talla) made me, and you cant tell me he didnt. This is my test, and soon enough i will be able to control myself. I have accepted my self to being muslim and lesbian, but i also Fear allah and love Islam (alhamdullilah). I care for my parents too...but i cannot find my way with them closing all the doors to my happiness and foundation. I've decided to do a convenience marriage. In other words, marrying a Gay muslim man. It will solve all my problems, especially knowing that there will be no sexual intercourse between us, because niether one of us will have attraction toward one another. Not to mention, id be doing it for my religion since im finding a guy that is looking to be more faithful to god than to his desires. But one way or the other, I have already found four suiters, I find it to be a better solution than moving out and leaving my family. [which i have been wanting to "runaway" from them for 3 years] but my heart nor my concience will let me. I am safe leaving and staying good home spoiled and everything i ask for. Its just my decision. Ive heard i had a straight suiter that was interested in me...i am only 19 years old with an education to finish, i refuse to ruin my life for some arrogant Arabic fool who isnt gonna be happy with me. And also kandahar, i have been gay eversince i was eight, if you wanna know how i knew just ask. I'm just too depressed and too angry to deal with this crap anymore. I'm gonna do what makes me happy even if it means going half way across the world away from my family Living with a gay guy muslim to have it. *sighs* god forgive me but i just cant sit here pretending to be something im not anymore or i dunno it drives me crazy. Brother roger i look up to you profoundly for being strong, but i have a Question for you.....Doesnt it drive u mad sometimes? doesnt it get to you so much sometimes it makes you wants to bust into tears. Well let me tell you others, it does. Dont sit here and tell me i have  a sexual disorder or its a phase, b/c i found out first hand for myself this is NO phase, got it? all i know is .....its tearing me and my family apart from eachother.  And now its too late to save our relationship...they dont trust me and i dont  trust them ...its to the point where im a huge jerk to my mother!!! my mother...the woman who determines my end!  I'm so frustrateed and suffocated...i dont know what to do about anything. Only to wish i had never been born.                                   Good night all, this is just too much.                                               N.A.R  >:( :( :'( [wlm]

Re: Questions about homosexuality
panjul
04/09/03 at 00:51:48
[slm] i'm sorry to know what you are going through. I am at a loss of words here, I don't know how can i impart a little of comfort or even hope through a message on the board. As my sister in Islam, I do not want to see you hurt or ruin your life because you may make a decision while you may be going throuh an emotional turmoil. Do you honestly think that marriage (to whomever it may be) is a wise idea at this stage? When we are hurt deep within our souls we act on things that may not be good for us. Marrying a gay guy might be a solution for the short run, but will it make you any happier than you are right now living with your parents? Dear sister, may Allah shower His mercy and blessings on you. This dua is coming from deep within my heart. I can relate to the depth of the pain you may be experiencing, even if not the situation, because every human being goes through some deep pain in thier life at some point or another. You are only 19 years old at this time. If you were not a lesbian and were a straight muslim girl who wanted to marry a boy because she was having trouble with her parents, I would give her the same advise I'm going to give you. You are young right now, concentrate on your studies. There's a whole beautiful world out there ready to be explored. You should find yourself; search within your soul as to who you really are and what you want to do with your life. And i'm not alluding this to sexuality, to say that you should serach more within to yourself to find out if you are truly a lesbian or not. Nor am I saying that you should lead a life of abstintation. I'm talking about your humanity. And also i'm not saying this to distract you from your problems either. But really there is more to life than sexuality, although i admit yes, it's certainly a part of us. I realize having your parents find out must be hard on both of you. But will marriage solve the problem? Think about it. What is the purpose of marriage in Islam, aside from having children that is? It's to become *whole*, to finally connect to your "other half" as the Prophet (S) said. When we marry, our iman is made stronger. So what's the point of marrying a gay man, you certainly won't be achieving any of this. (But really, who knows if you might go through it, Allah may bring about a change which may surprise both of you. Everything is possible with Allah, nothing escapes his Power.) So is the point of marrying to get away from your family and to lessen their pain? And in doing so you may also be able to lessen the pain *you* are feeling on account of your parents feeling that way? But isn't this an allusion, sister? Reality is from Allah, illusion is from the shaitan. I hope Allah guides you to the best decisions in your life. Ameen. your sister in islam

Re: Questions about homosexuality
al-tawbah
04/09/03 at 09:52:47
asalamu alaikum first things first, little sister.    all praise is due to allah.    i am not strong.    any strength that you may see within me is through him and him alone.    i would never be able to have repented and maintain this repentance, were it not for his love, mercy and grace. does it drive me crazy sometimes?    not anymore.    i have been chaste for almost 4 years now.    if you think it is hard to avoid temptation, imagine what it is like to have succumbed to it, and then have to repent of it.    but even that, with time gets easier.     what drives me crazy now, is knowing that he has given me all that he has, when there are people who seem so much more deserving.    then i am reminded that allah*swt* guides each of us as he wills , and i am ashamed that maybe i am not as grateful as i should be, and it is a vicious cycle.    and then i do burst into tears because of that.    that is rather embarrassing if i am making slat at the masjid, although nobody ever seems to be bothered by it.    but it still seems so personal. remember always to put your personal relationshhip with allah*swt* ahead of all others.    he, in turn, will keep the rest of them in the perspective in which he wants them. before you undertake any type of major decision, you must bear one question in mind.    will your actions be his will, or your own?    unless it is his will, it is sure to fail.    i am not saying that you would divorce.    i am saying that unless it is his will that you marry a particular man, that the marriage would not be happy. before you make any final decision on this, try to remember that we all have tests of some sort.    insha allah, you will reach a point where you begin to thank allah*swt* for your own tests because you will see that it draws you closer to him when you struggle for his sake. if there were a pill that you could take to make these inclinations go away, would you take it?    i wouldn't.    if i did not struggle to overcome my obstacles, and turn to him for his aid in doing so, it would take no faith or effort on my part, would it?    to someone with another test, his or her test is just as much of a struggle for them as this one is for us.    and too, if this were not our test, we would have another. would you maybe want for me to speak with your family, to maybe put things into a perspective that they could better understand?    i will if you want me to.    while my family doesn't speak to ma anymore ( illegal sexual activity was never an issue for them, but being muslim is, even though we were raised with no religious background.    isn't that messed up?) i do have a vast group of people who know of my past and not only support me in my repentance, but they also are very protective of me in that they are always concerned that others around me have my best interests at heart.    they love you, and only want what is best for you. i must get ready for work now, but i will elaborate on the "marriage of convenience" aspect when i get home tonight, insha allah.    there are a lot of variables that you must consider about this, as there is actually no such thing as a marriage of convenience, although i am not saying that you should not consider marriage at some point.    i am certainly looking to get married, although for different reasons than you have stated.    and i definitely think that you should finish school first.    when you drop out, it is harder to go back.    i dropped out, and it was years before i went back.    i was studying to be a christian minister and the week that i got my degree, i reverted to islam.   DOH!!!   lol truly, my sister, this is a struggle that many have faced for years, and succeeded at.    with the guidance of allah*swt* behind you, there is nothing that is not possible. i will write more later, insha allah, but remember that it is not this duniyaa that we are struggling for, but rather the next.    this test is a great way to glorify allah*swt*    we are fortunate to have the opportunity to do this. wasalaam love, roger in the meantime, take solace in the knowledge that allah*swt* is in control of all things.      it is mankind that is waaaaaay out of control.

Re: Questions about homosexuality
UmmWafi
04/09/03 at 12:18:22
[slm] Subhanallah Bro Roger, indeed you are very blessed. May Allah SWT continue to keep you in His Mercy and Love, Amin. Wassalam.

Re: Questions about homosexuality
al-tawbah
04/10/03 at 00:15:37
asalamu alaikum  all first off, jazak allah khair for your kind words, umm wafi.    you are very kind.    i am indeed the richest man i know.    repentance is such a blessing.    only when we are walking within the guidelines set for us do we find peace. sister nicky, would you tell me a little bit about what happened with your family?    you mustn't assume that your relationship with your family is beyond help.    look at things from their perspective.    there are after all, two sides to every story.    my family doesn't speak to me right now, but insha allah, someday allah*swt* may see fit to change their hearts, and i would welcome that with a quickness.    being rejected by someone that you love is a pretty bad feeling.    please think about that before you do that to them by running away. your family is always your family. marriage....well, while i would not necessarily rule out marriage for anyone regardless of this trial, it is something that i would be very careful about.    it is also something that i think that you have plenty of time to think about.     " i am only 19 years old with an education to finish, i refuse to ruin my life for some arrogant Arabic fool who isnt gonna be happy with me. " finish school before you consider marriage, my sister. and when you do marry, be sure that this is what allah*swt* has willed you to do. if you are to spend the rest of your life with one man, it must be the right man for the right reason.    you should require the same criteria as you would if you did not have this trial. i know of several cases where both of the people had this trial, and they are happily married.    i also know of cases where only one of them had this trial and they are happily married, subhanallah!    there is also a smattering of children thoughout as well, alhamdulillah. so you needn't assume that you could only do this with a man who also suffers from the same trial as you do.    just because a person has a different trial than we have does not mean that he/she can't be an awesome companion and make a good mate for you. i have to admit that i laughed out loud at your reference to an arrogant fool who wouldn't be happy with you anyway.   lolol    i know just the type of man that you are talking about.    but you can't generalize about a group of people by the actions of a few. i am not dismissing your idea.    you have some very valid points in marrying a gay man.     i also have to admit that there is somewhat of a symmetry in many cases, as i am somewhat attracted to gay women. but by the same token, the vaild points that you have made are what would make me keep the option that you have spoken of as an option, rather than the deciding factor.    the reasons for searching for a full valid marriage are something though, that cannot be negated. this is the option that i have chosen for myself.    my biggest obstacle that i face with that is that many women, once learning of my past, are hesitant to even think of the possibility that i am someone that can be married to her.    it is more than they are able to accept in a potential spouse. i can hardly

Re: Questions about homosexuality
al-tawbah
04/10/03 at 00:18:26
fault them for that.    i can understand why they would be hesitant, even if there is no need for it.     but by the same token, i insist that any woman that i would marry, first know of it.    i would feel otherwise, that given my circumstances, that it would be a lie of omission.    i would not want to begin a marriage with a lie. so, that only serves to prove to me, that when i do marry, that my wife will be among the most faithful of the servants of allah*swt*.    she will have to be to know that my past is just that.    the past.    and she will know that when we repent, we glorify allah*swt*.    she will look at my repentance, rather than the sin.    THAT is the woman i want for my wife! until allah*swt* brings us together, i will patiently wait, knowing that he knows what is best for me.    knowing that, gives me the warm fuzzies inside. it also seems to me that you need some healthy relationships with other women.    loving caring halal relationships.    not to have them will only make your trial harder.    a good start is with your mother.    she is after all, your mother.    i am sure that you can ask any woman reading this board, and she will tell you that a mother's love for her child is exceeded only by the love of allah*swt* for that child.     try to make things up with your family, my sister.    be patient with them. while someone that has never dealt with this may not always know exactly what they are talking about, this does not mean that they don't have your best interests at heart.    the sister that made the reference to pyschosexual disorders meant no harm or malice.    but such disorders do exist, and so somebody has to have them.    it was brave of her to suggest it as her intent was only to try to help and offer you some support, masha allah.    and so it shall be with your family at times as well.    so please be kind to them. my offer to speak with them is a standing one if you think it may help for them to speak to someone who has been guided out of such a life.     the fact that you have never gotten very far with such things is a good factor in your favor.    also the fact that you do love allah*swt* and want only to be the best servant to him that you can speaks in your favor as well.    it seems to me that you are winning this battle, my sister, whether you see it or not. you are not gay.    you are not straight.    these are just labels.    you are a muslimah.    that is the only label that you need.    you walk within the guidelines that have been set by god for you.    you are guided by the one true god to walk within these boundaries. yea, you are definitely winning this battle.    alhamdulillah! wasalaam roger

Re: Questions about homosexuality
Maliha
04/11/03 at 11:57:35
[slm] Bro Tawbah  Mashaallah your struggle and triumphs brought tears to my eyes :'( May Allah bless you with more strength and guide you towards your eternal destination Jannah. I just wanted to tell you though, that you don't have to disclose your past to anyone even a potential spouse. All of us have done things we are not proud of, and its really between you and Allah. There are a couple of hadiths to the extent that if you have done something and Allah has veiled it, then you shouldn't expose that veil. I will look for the exact wording. The point is, some struggles are highly personal and no one has the right to know..even a spouse. You don't have to feel like you are lying. If you have sincerely repented then Allah Inshaallah has forgiven you and stricken it off your records, why bring it up again and again? I just learned from experience that some things are better left dead...and sometimes sharing this nitty gritty things may create a distance from our spouses than bring us closer to them. I don't know, each person is different...but reality is every single person on earth is struggling with something, but that's really no one else's business. Just my two cents :p Sis, Maliha [wlm]

Re: Questions about homosexuality
muahmed
04/11/03 at 16:11:42
;-) [slm] [quote author=Maliha link=board=lighthouse;num=1042412877;start=45#52 date=04/11/03 at 11:57:35] I just learned from experience that some things are better left dead...and sometimes sharing this nitty gritty things may create a distance from our spouses than bring us closer to them. I don't know, each person is different...but reality is every single person on earth is struggling with something, but that's really no one else's business. [/quote] I agree with you completely Sis Maliha. However I have a question. In sharia'h its a MAJOR sin for someone who has fornicated to marry someone chaste. (Referece: Reliance of the Traveller -- book on Shafi' fiqh translated by Shaykh Nuh Mah Keller to english) Also there is a pretty direct verse in the Quran from which the ruling is derived. I never really investigated this for I only delve into issues that affect me personally. Now I am curious. If a person did fornicate in the past and repented he/she must be trying to avoid major sins again. If they hide that part of the past and marry someone chaste they commit another major sin! What is the way out for them? Should they disclose it before marriage ? Since it is a what-if question maybe I should not delve into issues that dont affect me.  Allah-o-alam.
04/11/03 at 16:14:09
muahmed

Re: Questions about homosexuality
humble_muslim
04/11/03 at 18:01:21
AA Brotehr Muhammed, my understanding is that if the fornicator repents, then he/she is allowed to marry someone chaste.  And Allah knows best.
NS

Re: Questions about homosexuality
al-tawbah
04/12/03 at 00:27:22
asalamu alaikum jazak allah khair for your kind words, and for your thoughts on the matter as well. another kind sister once told me that i was not required to tell anyone else, although she admitted that it would probably be best for a prospective wife to know simply because if it ever came up somehow, it would cause problems. say for instance, i were to find out that my wife had once been a prostitute and then repented before she married me;    the fact of her past would not be a problem, but rather hiding such a thing from me would be.    hence, if i were given the chance to prove that the grace of allah*swt* knows no bounds.    such a revelation would in a sense, be a test for me. i am also in touch with a number of people who have this struggle, and some have a harder time with it than others.    i cannot bring myself to abandon them, and stop encouraging them in their repentance.    i owe it to allah*swt* to let others know that their lives do not have to be that way.    there are far too many ways for us to walk within the guidelines set for us in this life, for us to step outside those boundaries. as allah*swt* is the one that guided me out, even if i were to live a thousand lifetimes, i could never begin to point out the glory that belongs to him alone.    but by the same token, i have to make an effort to every chance that i get.     at some point, she would be sure to find out that i am in contact with them, and want to know why. i generally don't announce it to the world, although if i am approached by a man, i do let him know that i have repented of such things.    then i am usually told that i am self hating and urged to "say it loud, i'm gay and i'm proud!"    i then inform them, that to me, to give up my will for the will of allah*swt* is the greatest form of self love that i can imagine, and that it "gives me a thrill, to just want god's will!"    they don't like that.    when you tell someone that you believe that certain behavior is wrong, they automatically assume that you are judging them, rather than the behavior. so often, people are in denial about themselves, that they honestly think that what they are doing is acceptable.    for these people, it is far worse than for those that admit that the behavior is wrong, but struggle against it. just as sin begins in the heart, so too does repentance.    once one admits thatr he/she has sinned, then the repentance has begun. you are 100% correct in that everyone has their trials.    i now have to shield my glances from women far more than i did in the past, and please believe that this is as hard as it ever was with men.    anyone that thinks that the trial of having attractions for one's own gender is different than having it for the opposite is wrong.    the trial is different, but the struggle is the same.     so i am kinda at a loss.i would feel as though i was not only lying, but also as though i was denying allah*swt* the glory that truly belongs to him if i were to hide this from my wife. i am not only that way about my sexual past, but also about being an alcoholic and an addict. he is the one that guided me from these things, and i want for those that struggle with these things to know that he alone can guide us out of them, all we have to do is open our hearts to him. does anyone else have an opinion either way about the matter?    if you have qur'an or sunnah to back up your opinion, even better.    i am open to whatever anyone may think, and if i were convinced that this were the right thing to do, then it would definitely be easier.    but that is my problem.    i am just convinced that being honest with a prospective wife about it is the best thing to do. wasalaam

Re: Questions about homosexuality
bhaloo
04/12/03 at 10:04:04
[slm] Brother Roger, what the Humble Muslim and Maliha said was correct.  The sins you have done are in the past and between you and Allah (SWT), and should not be disclosed to anyone (as it will hurt them and cause much pain), you've sincerely repented and insha'Allah Allah (SWT) will forgive you.   An excellent book on the topic of repenting is called "I want to repent, but..." by Sheikh Munajidd, and its located here: http://63.175.194.25/books/wantrepent/english.html Sheikh Munajjid was asked the following question and gave the response below (see especially the part from Surah Al-Furqaan (25:69~70) [...EXCEPT those who repent]) Question: Could inform me regarding the Islamic view about people who have committed homosexual acts, but have repented and abstained from such acts. Should they be stoned to death? Can they be forgiven? And are they allowed to marry people of the opposite gender? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. Undoubtedly the sin of homosexuality is one of the worst sins; indeed, it is one of the major sins (kabaa’ir) that Allaah has forbidden. Allaah destroyed the people of Loot (peace be upon him) with the most terrifying kinds of punishment because they persisted in their sin and made this evil action commonplace and acceptable among themselves. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “So when Our Commandment came, We turned (the towns of Sodom in Palestine) upside down, and rained on them stones of baked clay, in a well-arranged manner one after another; Marked from your Lord” [Hood 11:82-83]. Then Allaah says, warning those who come after them of the nations who do the same deed as they did (interpretation of the meaning): “and they are not ever far from the Zaalimoon (polytheists, evildoers)” [Hood 11:83] And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And they indeed sought to shame his guest (by asking to commit sodomy with them). So We blinded their eyes (saying), ‘Then taste you My Torment and My Warnings.’” [al-Qamar 54:37] The Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, kill them, the one who does it and the one two whom it is done.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 2727; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer wa Ziyaadatihi, no. 6589). Imaam Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It was reported that the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.” (Reported by the four authors of Sunan. Its isnaad is saheeh. At-Tirmidhi said it is a hasan hadeeth). Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq judged in accordance with this, and he wrote instructions to this effect to Khaalid, after consulting with the Sahaabah. ‘Ali was the strictest of them with regard to that. Ibn al-Qasaar and our shaykh said: the Sahaabah agreed that [the person who does homosexual acts] should be killed, but they differed as to how he should be killed. Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq said that he should be thrown down from a cliff. ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said that a wall should be made to collapse on him. Ibn ‘Abbaas said, they should be killed by stoning. This shows that there was consensus among them that [the person who does homosexual acts] should be killed, but they differed as to how he should be executed. This is similar to the ruling of the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning the person who has intercourse with a woman who is his mahram [incest], because in both cases intercourse is not permitted under any circumstances. Hence the connection was made in the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) who reported that the Prophet  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill them.” And it was also reported that he  (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever has intercourse with a woman who is his mahram, kill him.” And according to another hadeeth with the same isnaad, “Whoever has intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill the animal with him.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 2420; Abu Dawood, 4464; al-Tirmidhi, 1454; al-Haakim, 4/355). This ruling is in accordance with the ruling of sharee’ah, because the worse the haraam action is, the more severe the punishment for it. Having intercourse in a manner that is not permissible under any circumstances is worse than having intercourse in a manner which may be permitted in some circumstances, so its punishment is more severe. This was stated by Ahmad in one of the two reports narrated from him. (Zaad al-Ma’aad, part 5, p. 40-41). The same applies to the sin of lesbianism. There is no doubt among the fuqahaa’ that lesbianism is haraam and is a major sin, as stated by al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him). (Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, part 24, p. 251). With regard to the specific type of punishment mentioned in the question – stoning to death – this kind of punishment is for the adulterer who is married. The shar’i punishment for the crime of homosexuality is execution – by the sword, according to the most correct view – as was narrated in the discussion above about the differences among the scholars as to how this execution should be carried out. As far as lesbianism is concerned, there is no hadd for it, but it is subject to ta’zeer [unspecified punishment to be determined at the discretion of the qaadi]. (al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, part 24, p. 253). But if the person who does this evil deed, or any other action which is subject to a hadd punishment, repents, gives up that sin, seeks forgiveness, regrets what he has done and intends never to go back to it – Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about that, and he answered: If he truly repents to Allaah, Allaah will accept his repentance, and he does not need to confess his sin to anyone so that the hadd punishment would be carried out on him. (Majmoo’ al-Fataawaa, part 34, p. 180). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse  and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace; Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds; then verily, he repents towards Allaah with true repentance” [al-Furqaan 25:69-71]. If he repents sincerely towards Allaah, there is no reason why he should not get married, and indeed it may be obligatory in his case, as a protection for him and in accordance with what Allaah has permitted. And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.
04/12/03 at 10:05:26
bhaloo

Re: Questions about homosexuality
muahmed
04/15/03 at 17:55:44
;-) [slm] Surah Nur(24), verse 3: Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry any but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden. However a learned mufti explained that: This Aayats refers to a fornicator who has not made sincere Tawbah and is still committing immoral and indecent acts. Therefore, the rule applies to such a person. Therefore, he will marry his type, i.e. fornicator. The best of sinners are those who repent. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best So you guys were right. If a person has comitted sincere tawbah this verse does not apply to him. Thanks!

Re: Questions about homosexuality
al-tawbah
04/16/03 at 00:14:21
asalamu alaikum jazak allah khair for your input, everyone. while i am not positive that absolute secrey from a prospective wife of such a thing as my past is the right thing, i am also not so sure that it is the wrong thing as well. but in the meantime, until allah*swt* has deemed that it is time for me to marry, i will simply walk in the boundaries that he has set for me, insha allah, and know that he is in control of all.    if he intends a thing, his command is "be" and so it is. something that i have noticed about this subject, is that there is a great deal regarding the various punishments, and how vile an action it is.   ( in retrospect, i have come to see that anything that is not his will is vile)  but there is so little regarding actual repentance of it.    qur'an clearly states that if those who commited the act repent and mend their ways, to leave them be, for allah is merciful and oft forgiving. repentance is an act of love for allah*swt*.    and forgiveness and mercy are his manifestations of his love for us. yet so little is said about repentance.    set aside the fear of the wrath of allah*swt* for a moment.    repentance also brings a richness into the life of the one who repents.    it gives them the chance to glorify allah*swt* with their act.    it brings them closer to allah*swt*   the closer we get to allah*swt* in our hearts, the more we nurture that aspect, and get even closer to him.    repentance leads to greater rewards.    yet i hear so few people focus on this aspect.    it is usually about the punishements of disobeying allah*swt*    seldom about the blessings that come from attempting to be a better servant to him. does anyone else have an opinion on telling a prospective wife about a debaucherous past? does anyone have an idea on how to forego telling a woman of such a thing, and still be able to encourage others that are struggling with this trial without there being some question of the motivation for going out of the way to do so?    i would like to let others know that there are far too many ways to live our lives within the boundaries that allah*swt* has set for us, to live a life that is outside of that realm. jazak allah khair for the link as well as the opinions that have been given so far.    that link RAWKS! wasalaam
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