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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| high school |
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| amatullah |
| 01/21/03 at 23:03:28 |
| What would you answer for a teacher who gave out a hand out on islam and it says this about women (the teacher underlined some parts as I will insha'Allah show) If you have articles I can send to him it would be greatly appreciated and may Allah reward you: although muhammad taught that women were equal to men in the sight of Allah, Islam in practice contributed to the [u]domination of women[/u] by men. Muhammad, for instance allowed the longime ARab practice of [u]polygamy[/u]- in which men may have more than one wife-to continue. Overall, Islam did not challenge the prevailing Arab and Middle Eastern view that women were the [u]property[/u]of men and should be excluded from public life. All Islamic cultures put [u]rigid limits[/u] on women's roles in society. |
| Re: high school |
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| A_Stranger |
| 01/22/03 at 13:26:53 |
| [slm] I strongly dislike ignorant people. Amatullah, check out [url]www.themodernreligion.com[/url] , look on your left, scroll down to "women" and check that place out. Scroll to the bottom of that article and you'll find links with information regarding women in Islaam. Also, check out jannah.org/women ..or something. Hope I ain't too late. Peace. |
| Re: high school |
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| Chris |
| 01/22/03 at 13:50:51 |
| Reply and inform the teacher that those men were hypocrites and in their quest for power abnd a good life practically spat on Islam and anyone who got in their way. Funny thing about humans, we all want to be rich, live longer and both of those can be gained though power, but how is it that what we want would be most destructive to us? Chris |
| Re: high school |
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| sofia |
| 01/22/03 at 16:26:00 |
| As-salaamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah [Sigh] I wish people would just look at the sources, and not at the people. And this guy’s a teacher? Sister A_Stranger has put up a really good resource. Along with that, a friend of mine had put together a presentation for her “feminism” class (see below, I’ve added a bit), and a lot of her criticizers (of Islam, of her and her clothing, etc) in her class were pretty much stunned silent by her presentation. I don’t know of any better way to mend the wrong teachings of “Islaam” (as defined by those limited in knowledge, or opponents of Islaam), except with the true teachings of Islaam (according to God and His messenger). Also, as Muslims, we know some of these situations described below depend on a lot of factors (as with anything in Islaamic law), but I've kept the bare minimum amount of info necessary. Under Islaamic law (cultural laws do not overturn Islaamic law), a Muslim woman has the right to: 1. Marry who she wants to. A marriage is not valid without the consent of the woman (or man). 2. Get a divorce. Divorce is allowable under Islaamic law, although it is abhorred by God. Its main purpose is to get either/both of the spouses out from a relationship that is not conducive to their well-being or to their relationship with God. 3. Inherit what is rightfully hers. No one can take, withhold or invalidate the inheritance of a woman. There are no Jane Eyre books marking the tragedy of a misappropriated inheritance of Muslim daughters. The court is obligated to protect her inheritance. 4. Receive an education. Everyone is obligated to educate themselves in Islaam, be they man or woman, black or white. 5. Keep her own income. What’s hers is hers. Her $ doesn’t have to be used for anyone else but herself, and she does not give it up to anyone else, except by way of voluntary charity. 6. Political rights, freedom of expression and opinion. Islaam allowed women to vote and hold certain positions over 1400 years ago. The Prophet (S), for instance, consulted with his wives regarding political and military decision-making on various occasions. Women also gave baiyyah [ie, basically voted for their leader] during the time of the Prophet (S). 7. Stand trial as a witness, whether for herself or for others. A woman’s testimony can overturn anyone else’s depending on validity of evidence, not on her gender. 8. Not be kept inside the home like a prisoner. For example, if she wanted to study in the mosque, her husband has no right to stop her. Islaam lifted the chains of slavery and “property-hood” that many women were under during pre-Islaamic times, so that societies would realize she was man’s “twin half” (as described by the Prophet, himself), and no less than that. 9. Not to be viewed as a cheap commodity. A Muslim woman who properly covers herself in public forces others to view her for her intellect and conduct, not for her hairstyle, short skirt or sex appeal. She is not lowered to the level of an animal, to be used to sell goods. She is treated in a dignified manner, with respect for her conduct and intelligence, not simply for her appearance. 10. If she is a minor, she has the right to be taken care of by her father. During pre-Islaamic times, fathers would bury their newborn or infant daughters alive as a pagan custom. Islaam banished this, and instead taught Muslims that the one who raises even one daughter (by feeding, educating her, treating her kindly, etc) will be rewarded Paradise. 11. Be taken care of by her husband, whether with his kindness and/or with his money, even if she has an income greater than his. The Prophet (s) taught his followers that the best of them are the ones who treat their families the best, and in some narrations, the ones that treat their wives the best (thereby emphasizing the wife, although she is part of the “family”). 12. Stay at home and take care of her children. It’s not her responsibility to bring in an income for her family, as her first responsibility is to take care of her home and children, if she has any. Her husband cannot force her to work outside of the home if she does not want to. It is his responsibility to provide for his family. 13. Receive the best companionship/kindness from her children. The Prophet (p) told his followers that Paradise is at the feet of the mother, and that the best companionship should be for one’s mother. 14. Make the Hajj/pilgrimage. It is a sacred visit to God’s house, and He did not invite men only. Women have been making Hajj, as well as upholding all other acts of worship, since the time of the Prophet(s). Along the same vein, women have the right to receive the same reward from God for the same acts of ‘ibaadah/worship. In a Qur’aanic verse, God says: “Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily to him will We give a new life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to their actions.” (Translation of the Qur'aan: Chapter of the Bee, 16:97) 15. I don’t think I need to go on, but there are more rights I haven’t included. All of these rights are God-given rights, not given by man after years of struggling through a suffrage movement. During the time of the Prophet (S), some women fought alongside men during battles with repressive tribes. They voted on important socio-political issues, could divorce their husbands, worked to get food on their tables, traveled along with the caravans, worshipped in the same masjids - ALONG with their menfolk. These are among the same rights I have as a Muslim woman today, and I dare say, not all of my Islaamic rights are protected in this democratic country I live in (ie, the US). When these rights are withheld by repressive rulers, it is done so in spite of the teachings of Islaam, NOT because of it. There is no compulsion in religion, so you will not find a perfect Muslim, just as you will not find a perfect Christian or Jew. That is why the struggle for rights and to get out from beneath the yoke of oppression is part of the jihad/struggle in Islaam. Enjoin good and forbid evil. For man or woman, black or white, old or young. And those who struggle to uphold the rights of the marginalized (be they men, women, slaves, orphans, the disabled, etc), will be rewarded for upholding the Islaamic teachings Prophet Muhammad (s) came with. The Prophet (s) taught his followers that he and the one who takes care of a widow or an orphan will be like this (holding his index and middle finger together) in Paradise. These are the teachings of Islaam. Now don’t you wish you were Muslim living under a just Muslim ruler? Ok, that was pushing it, but it’s really not hard to become a Muslim. If you believe these things, you are a Muslim, along with the belief that there is only One God, and that Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger (and only a messenger), peace be upon him, and peace be upon all of the Messengers of God. Research from the sources, not from the sorry example of Muslims themselves. We’re fallible, the teachings of God are not. Peace |
| NS |
| 01/22/03 at 16:37:14 |
| sofia |
| Re: high school |
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| Ameeraana |
| 01/25/03 at 17:47:04 |
| [color=Red]Salaam Aleikum, After this paragraph I will copy and paste a page from a website showing polygamy in the Old and New Testaments (I will also include the link because the link has it easier to read the way it is set up)-- The Qur'an limited men to only four wives, no more unlike in the Old and New Testaments. I also have yet to have found in the Old or New Testament a verse that specifically says "marry only one" --whereas in the Qur'an it says "only one" if the man cannot deal justly with more than one wife. So far it is the only Holy Book that has those two words "only one".[/color] [color=Green]Oh, and about the excluding of women from public life--this was only limited to the Prophets' wives: Surat 33:32-33 32. O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word. 33. And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying. [/color] [color=Blue]Polygamy in the Old Testament ( http://www.btinternet.com/~familyman/biblpoly.html ) First Polygamist mentioned - Lamech in Genesis 4 v 19. Now, he was a descendant of Cain and he killed someone for wounding him. His bigamy, however, passes without adverse comment. Abraham, the first Hebrew, and ancestor of all Israel, had three wives, namely Sarah and her servant Hagar (see Genesis 16 v 3), and Keturah, as well as a number of concubines (Genesis 25 v 6). Esau, Abraham's grandson, had three wives - Judith, Bashemath (Genesis 26 v 34) and Mahalath (Genesis 28 v 9) Jacob, father of the twelve tribes of Israel had Rachel and Leah, who were sisters, as his wives, see Genesis 29, and their servants Bilhah and Zilpah in Genesis 30. Without these four wives there would be no Israel. Gideon, mighty man of God and judge of Israel, who defeated the Midianites, and whose name is now used to distribute Bibles worldwide, had 70 sons, "for he had many wives" - Judges 8 v 30 In 1 Samuel 1 v 2 Elkanah has two wives, Hannah and Peninah. Hannah gives birth to the prophet Samuel. King David, a man after God's own heart, had plenty of wives, namely Michal in 1 Samuel 18 v 27, and Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, and Eglah in 2 Samuel 3, and last but not least, Bathsheba in 2 Samuel 11 v 27. When condemned for committing adultery with Bathsheba, God reminds him of the many things he has given him, including "thy master's wives into thy bosom..." (2 Samuel 12 vv 7&8). So it looks like God not only allowed polygamy but actively supported it. Solomon had three hundred wives and seven hundred concubines, according to 1 Kings 11 v 3, but we'll not list their names. He wrote the Song of Solomon, a celebrated poem about marital love, to his 141st wife (see Song of Solomon 6 v 8) Ashur had two wives, Helah and Naarah in 1 Chronicles 4 v 5. Rehoboam had 18 wives and sixty concubines, making him another busy man, according to 2 Chronicles 11 v 21. Abijah had 14 wives, see 2 Chronicles 13 v 21. Joash had two wives chosen for him by Jehoida the priest according to 2 Chronicles 24 v 3. In Jeremiah 3 vv 6-10 and 31 vv 31-32 God himself is portrayed as a polygamist. In Ezekiel 23 God portrays himself as a polygamist, married to two sisters, Jerusalem and Samaria, who commit adultery against him. The Old Testament had rules regulating polygamy and limiting its application in certain circumstances. Kings of Israel weren't supposed to "multiply wives" to themselves according to Deuteronomy 17 v 17. You weren't supposed to take a woman's sister to be her "rival wife" while she was still living - Leviticus 18 v 18. And you weren't to marry both a woman and her mother - Leviticus 20 v 14. Polygamy was recognised and regulated by the Law of Moses. Just like normal marriage, polygamy has its fair share of problems, and the law intervenes in Deuteronomy 21 vv 15-17 to make sure that children get what they're entitled to. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So we can see that Polygamy was practised without criticism in the Old Testament. In fact, it was regulated by law. It was legal and moral and was clearly within the limits of the law. Indeed, the Levirate practice of marrying the wife of a deceased brother in order to ensure the family line continued (Deuteronomy 25 vv 5&6) would require a man to be bigamous if he was already married. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Polygamy in the New Testament Polygamy is allegedly not mentioned a great deal in the New Testament, but there are in fact a number of teachings and clarifications which are of assistance to the polygamist. Polygamy is not condemned or outlawed in the New Testament and the Old Testament practice is not changed in any way. For more detail see the page on the marriage of Christ and the Church. Paul, the Apostle, in Romans 7 v 3, shows that Polyandry is unnacceptable. He says a woman who remarries whilst her husband is alive is an adulteress. No such comment is made about a man who has two wives. In Romans 7 v 4 Paul tells the Christians "ye also are become dead to the Law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." Here the old English of the King James Version shows a vital difference in the Greek original that is lost in many translations. In modern English we use the word "you" both when we are referring to just one other person and when we are referring to two or more other people. Old English, like New Testament Greek, used one word when it was just one person ("thou") and another word when it was two or more people ("ye"). So when Paul says "that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead" he is talking about plural marriage - many believers being married to their one Lord. This is the best example of polygamy that could be hoped for, and it's there in the New Testament. Whilst Paul advises in 1 Corinthians 7 v 2 "let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband", the greek words used for "his own" and "her own" are different, and not just in gender, therefore allowing for the possibility that different rules apply to the different sexes, as polygamists suggest. In fact, the greek for "her own" in this passage is used in Romans 14 v 2 to represent a servant and "his own" master. This shows that Paul could have used the same word twice in 1 Corinthians 7, but chose not to. And it also shows that a man belongs to his wife in the same sense as a master belongs to his servant. A servant can have only one master, and a master can have many servants. In the same way, a woman can have only one husband, but a man can have many wives. In 1 Timothy 3 v 2 it is made clear that a bishop/elder/overseer, and in v12 a deacon, must be "the husband of one wife" and this is repeated in Titus 1 v 6. This restriction is not placed on any other member of the church, or indeed on anyone at all. The best a monogamist could hope for from this restriction is that while there were polygamists in the church body, these positions were to be restricted to those who had the experience of managing one family and the time to apply their skills to a second family, namely the family of God. However, there is a debate on these issues which allows for the possibility that the scriptures would authorise polygamy even for elders. For a further discussion of this point see the "objections" pages.[/color] Its funny how Islam is always criticised for practices that were going on in the Old and New Testaments just because the [u]cultures[/u] that practice them today have changed the rules of their religions to only allow monogamy. Just like where Muslim men oppress women, it is not the religion that condones it but the [u]cultures[/u] that allow it. I hope I am not too late in replying to you. |
| 01/25/03 at 17:56:21 |
| Ameeraana |
| Re: high school |
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| zomorrud |
| 01/25/03 at 20:32:03 |
| [color=blue]bismillah.. assalamu alaikum sis amatullah, hopefully you are working on responding to that teacher with the facts from solid sources. i would be very concerned about the teacher's seeming hostility towards "Islam in practice". you have to question where s/he gathered such dim views about women in islam. bring this issue with the school principal and convey your deep concern about the teachers "radical views" about Islam. Preferabaly, do this with other parents, as a group. it is optimal if you can have a muslim rights organization (CIC, CAIR-can) contact the school. also, take this opportunity to organize Islam awareness events in the schools of that district in a regular basis. recruit help from other concerned parents or from your mosque and go around these schools for a presentation on islam (no proselytizing, just dispelling misconceptions). please let us know if you need help. take care wassalam [/color] |
| Re: high school |
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| Chris |
| 01/26/03 at 12:55:42 |
| If I could offer a few surgestions for practical measures to improve Islam... 1) Charity begins at home. Visist any sister before her marrage, away from any member of her family and check that she is truly happy with her marrage. If shes is not, then help her to leave her parents if they thow her out, or orcastize her parents until they renouce their anti-islam cultures. Dittio for Brothers 2) Have no truck with evil-doers/do not see evil without confronting it. Publicly renounce Osma Bin Ladin and other like him, and do everything within your power to see them caught and imprisioned until God sees fit to take their lives. 3) Cultures are not Islam. Do not say that "it happens because its in my culture". If the Koran forbids it, then don't do it. 4) Provide discussion groups for children and young muslims and invite them to attend, Do not force them to attemd or let them be forced because it will poison their hearts. 5) Be forgiving. Do not presume that you are God, or that you have the right to judge others, particuly when you are not affected. Help people who have gotten into trouble, drinks, drugs and Pregnancy, and assist them in making amends. Comments? Chris |
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