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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Two Faces of Islam |
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| Anonymous |
| 01/22/03 at 16:56:11 |
| For years the United Kingdom has welcomed muslims from all over the world to settle and live in peace in this beautiful land we call home.We have afforded you every welcome, financed you whilst putting down roots and paid for your children to receive a decent education. Yet how do you repay our hospitality! You condem us as the lowest of the low, scum beneath cattle, people who should be exterminated!You seek to take over this country, you do not want to co exist with us, you want to rule us, condem us. You want a world ruled by Islam and you will not stop at anything to get it. You do not condem the violence against innocent christians, some of you make muted noises at it being wrong, yet behind the facade you condone the violent actions! As christains we would not be allowed to behave in the same manner in any muslim country in the world. we would be arrested, jailed, deported even murdered! Yet you do it in this country and when we compain you scream racisim! Racisim, that is a joke! you are more racisit than we are! More and more peace loving christians are waking up to the two faces of Islam! [color=red]ADMIN NOTE: I'm posting this because I do believe that there are many many people who think like this unfortunately. So hopefully our calm responses can help make them think.[/color] |
| 01/22/03 at 16:58:20 |
| Anonymous |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| BrKhalid |
| 01/26/03 at 06:44:06 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) Crikey an Anonymous post in the British Souq. What next a brotherly topic in the Ikhwan? ;) Anonymous there an element of truth in your thread title with one caveat however. There are no *two* faces of Islam, there is only Islam. Of course how people chose to *represent* Islam is another thing altogether. I sympathise for non Muslims in the UK because they are barraged with inaccuracies from all over the media. Hence they can only judge from hearing one side of the argument, which as we all know is no worthy judgement at all. And as we all know it is all far too easy to generalise in this day and age. |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| Maliha |
| 01/27/03 at 09:47:08 |
| [slm] In the Name of Allah The Most Gracious the Most Merciful. [quote author=Anonymous link=board=british;num=1043437297;start=0#0 date=01/22/03 at 16:56:11]For years the United Kingdom has welcomed muslims from all over the world to settle and live in peace in this beautiful land we call home.We have afforded you every welcome, financed you whilst putting down roots and paid for your children to receive a decent education.Yet how do you repay our hospitality! [/quote] Dear Anon, You seem to make it sound like Muslim immigrants get stuff handed down to them on a silver platter. For one that is not true. People who migrate to these countries, work *hard*. They contribute immensely to the economy, they are the leading doctors, scientists, and are intricate in the very fiber of society. Why do you think the west has opened its doors to others? Do you really believe its out of the goodness of their hearts? If it wasn't the smartest thing to do economically this wouldn't have been an issue. There an immense problem with a concept called "brain drain" in third world countries. The most intelligent people are afforded the best opportunities int these countries and they *propel* the countries economy, technology and research areas with their industry, hardwork and ethics. And that is just referring to the people who immigrated, there are Muslims that are ethnically Europeans who have bettered their lives and live as model citizens, giving, and contributing for the betterment of all around them. [quote] You condem us as the lowest of the low, scum beneath cattle, people who should be exterminated!You seek to take over this country, you do not want to co exist with us, you want to rule us, condem us. [/quote] I wonder where you get this statement from? SubhanAllah I know a lot of Muslims and no one has ever made a prayer about the extermination of others. You say we don't want to co exist with you..yet I wonder what we have been doing for the past century? yeah, exactly that... co existed peacefully. [quote] You want a world ruled by Islam and you will not stop at anything to get it. [/quote] sigh...an Islamic world, where justice rules, the innocent lives are protected, knowledge is encouraged, the leaders are just, morality is high, people striving for the betterment of humanity, brotherhood and sisterhood rules the day. The rights of the weak are safeguarded. True God is worshipped and the actions are propelled by the highest ideals of love. Where no child goes hungry, and no neighbor is disturbed. Where our children's eyes, ears, and hearts are protected from filth. Where purity filters through our very essence. Where we do not denigrate our environments and do not plunder the earth and its inhabitants for the mighty few. sigh...sounds like utopia huh? I guess we can keep striving for justice and betterment, it doesn't sound like such a bad thing does it? [quote] You do not condem the violence against innocent christians, some of you make muted noises at it being wrong, yet behind the facade you condone the violent actions! [/quote] I think this topic has been beaten over the head many a times. Muslims have been outspoken in all circles of life. The scholars have shunned acts of terror, regular people have appeared at inter faith meetings, gatherings etc. to talk about the stance of Islam on violence, etc. It is sad, it seems like we will talk about Islam's inherently peaceful nature, until we are blue in the face... Who has condoned violent actions? what violent actions are you talking about? [quote] As christains we would not be allowed to behave in the same manner in any muslim country in the world. we would be arrested, jailed, deported even murdered! [/quote] You know what the funny thing about that, is that currently there are many Muslims innocently jailed in the west since the inception of the so called "war on terror'. It is sad, that many Muslims are dying all over the world unjustly, yet who speaks about it? As a citizen of the UK it is your responsibility to look at the actions of your government and rise up and talk about it. How many voices of Christians do we hear condemning the horrors going on abroad? [quote] Yet you do it in this country and when we compain you scream racisim! Racisim, that is a joke! you are more racisit than we are! More and more peace loving christians are waking up to the two faces of Islam! [/quote] Please don't insult Islam. [quote] [color=red]ADMIN NOTE: I'm posting this because I do believe that there are many many people who think like this unfortunately. So hopefully our calm responses can help make them think.[/color][/quote] Mods if I said anything out of line, please take down my post. Sis, Maliha :-) |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| UmmWafi |
| 01/28/03 at 10:47:28 |
| Dear Anon Since the event of Sep 11, we see a sudden mushrooming of terrorists experts, Islam experts, Muslim experts, Arab experts, political experts and international relations experts. Some of these experts boast credentials from universities ( though not all are of the first water mind you ) while others offer their expert advice from their armchair while eating kippers and guzzling beers. In fact, you can even find some of these experts condemning Muslims in The Dog and the Bull. This new fraternity see their brightest candidate in a journalist who writes for an English newspaper. His article takes the cake in terms of ignorance, ignorance and ignorance. I shall spare you my thoughts on his journalistic integrity for I think that is a somewhat foregone conclusion. This is the gist of what that illustrious person wrote. Islam is a religion that is started by a terrorist ( aka Prophet Muhammad SAW and his "blood thirsty wars" although he conveniently forgets about the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition etc but I digress), supported by terrorists ( aka the Al Qaeda, the MILf etc although he conveniently forgets the Israelis, the US army etc ) and nourish terrorism. According to him even our prayers condition us to be terrorists. He expertly theorised that when the Muslims pray, we bend our forehead to the ground. Although the impact of our skull hitting the ground is not hard but constant hitting will somehow impair our thinking process. In addition, the bending also make blood rush to our head thus blocking rational thoughts. The movements are also not kind to the spine and the nervous system, making us prone to irrational behaviour. He took great pains to illustrate the biological cause of terrorism by the Muslims effected by our praying. He said more things but I shan't sully your ears with such stupidity. Now, this paper which he writes in is circulated to hundred thousands Briton, whose average educational qualification is certainly not a degree from the hallowed portals of Oxford or Cambridge. And you expect us to undo the damage he does with irresponsible reporting. How ? We are not given that kind of leverage and even if we are, how easy do you think it is to unseat age old prejudices from the minds of people like yourself ? When the two hijacked aeroplanes rammed into the twin towers, we all saw the damage hatred can do. However, what is more menacing is the fact that we cannot see on television a more latent and dangerous hate. The kind that you and your cohorts harbour. I say more latent and dangerous because you live and move amongst us and you bring that hatred very close to us and our children. There is no two faces to Islam. There is just pure ignorance and hatred on the part of some people, Muslims or no, something you are perhaps well acquainted with. NOTE : The article I mentioned above was indeed written and was in fact reproduced in the Singaporean daily newspaper. I know because I was a member of the Publications and Films Advisory Committee set up by the Singapore Ministry of Information and the Arts and this was an article we debated actively on. The whole content of the article show blatant disrespect to Islam and Muslims and was in fact inflammatory in the very least. Still, the editor gave it the go ahead. Pot shots have never had it so good before eh ? Peace. |
| 01/28/03 at 10:58:05 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| Nafisa |
| 01/28/03 at 14:14:00 |
| [slm] ooh, I think anon's post has awoken the sleeping beauty that is British Souq ;) But seriously, there are many issues that need to raised here. I'll adress what I consider the most important one which is : [quote]You seek to take over this country, you do not want to co exist with us, you want to rule us, condem us. You want a world ruled by Islam and you will not stop at anything to get it. [/quote] Okay, so here's the thing. as a muslim i dont want to impose some kind of Islamic state on Britain. This is not a muslim country so I don't want to try and change it into one. There are some muslims who may want this but you'll find that us muslims have a variety of opinions and we do not all share the same ideas. We are not some big united front that some muslims may want us to appear to be. so a "take over" would seem laughable and totally implausable to me. as for not speaking up, I think this unfair and untrue. I would also like to point out that we pay for our "hospitality" by paying our taxes and are part of this economy. Oh and please don't tar us all with the rascism brush. sweeping generalisations do noone any favours. |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| BrKhalid |
| 01/29/03 at 05:37:27 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) A bit off topic here but a few days ago my brother was telling me of a report he read discussing demographics in the UK. Given the low birth rate in the country, a few years down the line there won't be enough people to replace the working population all at the age of retirement and beyond. Implication>>>>> People will either have to work longer or the country will need more people!!! But here's a question for the fellow Brits. Do you feel Islam has grown stronger in the past year or so in the country? If so then what do you think has caused this change and why? |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| jannah |
| 02/06/03 at 17:43:07 |
| Ok I waited awhile to cool off before responding to this :) First of all I don’t think before your birth you chose to be born in the UK :), just like many Muslims who are born in the UK didn’t. So what exactly are you blaming them for? There are also many Muslims who have emigrated to the UK for better jobs, education, quality of life for their children. Just like many ppl in the UK move to other parts of the UK for work or other places for the same thing. Muslims have been there for a long time. Paying taxes, establishing businesses, working and contributing to society. If “you” have financed some Muslims then they have certainly financed you as well. I don’t live in the UK but are you making the accusation that all of the people on the dole are Muslims? Here’s some comments on immigration that I thought was interesting: “On immigration, we need to be guided by hardheaded economic analysis rather than the mental hangover of an ethnic colour bar. It is ironic that the tabloid furore has reached fever pitch at the same time that forecasters are calling for an increase in skilled immigrant labour. Economists and demographers are predicting a fiercely competitive international market for the best-educated migrants. Europe will struggle to support its pensioners as life spans stretch and birth rates slow. A dwindling band of young workers will have to pay for the pensions and healthcare of their parents and grandparents. Countries may be forced to offer cash incentives to import young wealth creators from Asia and the third world. Immigrants have a proven track record of creating wealth wherever they go - and it isn't all down to hard work. Global markets have a constant thirst for new ideas, new products, new recipes, new ways of doing things. Immigrants shake up vested interests, take on bloated corporations and bring about new working practices. But our negative stereotypes of immigrants stop us harnessing their potential. “ http://politics.guardian.co.uk/thinktanks/comment/0,10538,568568,00.html Now for the rest of your comments…. No Islam does not think non-Muslims should be exterminated. There is a very long history of Islam and religious freedom. Just look into history and even today if you travel to any Muslim country – ie in the middle east.. malaysia.. anywhere - you’ll see many religious traditions that have always been part of the society. Are there some places where this is abused? Maybe, abberation but it’s certainly not attributable to Islam. Are there some wack Muslims that want to take over the UK by military force or whatever? No doubt, but there are also some skinheads that want the same thing. I doubt either has anything to do with the average Muslim or person living in the UK. Now the worst of your comments. “That we do not condemn the violence against innocent christians.” Where’s your proof? Granted we don’t have an official “clergy”, but we do have scholars and leaders that do speak out on these issues. Whether they play on the BBC nightly news or whatever is another story. I don’t even consider that an accusation, it’s just a lie. “behind the facade you condone the violent actions!” blah more lies. Islam does not condone violence against innocent people. Please read up on it more. About your comments on Muslim countries, they vary and range quite a bit in their laws – from the most secular – to some Islamic rulings – to made up stuff. No Muslim country follows Islamic law, so I don’t see how you’re evaluating Islam by them. Remember Islam does not always equal what people do. That’s like comparing skinheads to mother theresa – they both claim the same religion so must be the same eh? There are no two faces of Islam. There may be people or experiences that you see that don’t go with Islamic teachings. I would call those shadows, best to ignore them and work with people to understand the real image. |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| haaris |
| 02/13/03 at 10:06:51 |
| Dear Anon, Sorry to come a bit late to the party but I thought that I would share a few thoughts in light of your post. First, "you" didn't welcome "me" into this beautiful land that we call home. I was born here. So were my parents, my grand-parents and just about every preceding generation of my family. Well, at least back to Saxon times (before then I suppose they could have come from Germany but, hey, if so they certainly would NOT have been welcomed! But I digress ...). Secondly, I shan't offer here opinions that, shall we say, put a different perspective on the image of street parties to welcome the immigrants that your post suggests. That's an entirely different debate. I've never condemned anyone as "scum beneath cattle" (which is, in my mind at least, an odd place in which to find scum anyway) nor as people who should be exterminated. Why should I want to exterminate my own family? God forbid. I shan't respond to your "you seek to take over this country ..." rant because I think you got carried away there. C'mon anyone who uses the phrase "... and you will not stop at anything to get it" has clearly been watching too many movies or reading dodgy tabloids. As for condemnation of violence against innocent Christians (with an upper case "c"), I do condemn it, as I condemn all injustice. Just in case you missed it before, here it is: WHAT HAPPENED ON 11 SEPTEMBER 2001 WAS WRONG. IT WAS MURDER, PRE-MEDITATED AND COLD-BLOODED MURDER. I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE WHO CARRY OUT SUCH ATROCITIES. But the thing is; many Muslims said the same thing (only far more scholarly and eloquently than my version) at the time. Is it my fault if the media choose not to listen to them or to me? It doesn't make a very gripping headline, does it: BRISTOL MAN IN "911 IS WRONG" SHOCKER? No, but the quotes from (in terms of numbers) an insignificant minority make much better headlines. Incidentally, your remark about "make muted noises" amused me. You don't "make" a muted noise. You make a noise and then something mutes that noise. Bearing in mind that the noises to which you refer would have been made through the media, you don't need too much to guess from where the muting came. As a Christian living in an Islamic state you would enjoy many of the rights and liberties that you enjoy now. Whether you (or indeed anyone) would enjoy those rights in many of the countries that are called Muslim countries today is a different debate. One to which you and I should return only when we have knowledge rather than bland generalisations. Suffice, for the moment, to say that no country in the world is run as an Islamic State and that the governments of many of those countries that are known as Muslim countries are only kept in place by the funding from people like Bush who consider themselves "peace loving Christians". It might interest you to know that since 11 September 2001, many peace loving people of all faiths (and some of no faith at all) have enquired about Islam. They want to know more about the beautiful religion of Islam. Some of them have found the information they required, others have themselves become Muslims. Most have realised that what happened that day in NY is not a product of Islam but of many other factors too complex to discuss here and that Islam was a victim of that day too. Contrary to your last statement, many, many peace loving Christians are now waking up to the true face of Islam. I hope that you will read and consider the few points I make here. Perhaps you will retort that I am not your average Muslim. But that's my main gripe about your post. You don't (won't?) recognise that there is an incredible diversity within the Muslim population, just as there is in the Christian population. Instead, you make ridiculous generalisations that you couldn't possibly substantiate. Sure, there may be some people within the Muslim community who are work-shy, bitter, extremist or racist. But they are all very much in the minority. And this is not a problem unique to Muslims. This might come as a shock to you but I know people who are work-shy, bitter, extremist or racist and all of them are white. Like me (white, that is: I don't regard myself as work-shy, bitter, etc.). I'd like to think that I'm mature enough not to think that all white people are like this. I may not look like the average Muslim (if it weren't forbidden, I'd bet that I look more like you than the "average" Muslim in your mind). But I speak and think like him. At least as far as the contents of this post go anyway. Tell you what: go into a mosque and ask people. Better still, come to Bristol and I'll show you. I might even cook you dinner! Take care. |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| jannah |
| 02/13/03 at 11:19:05 |
| Bro Harris [slm] Nice to see your response and to see you on the board after so long:) Eid Mubarak |
| Re: Two Faces of Islam |
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| haaris |
| 02/13/03 at 11:58:40 |
| Sister Jannah (and, indeed, everyone else) [wlm] It's good to be back. I've been lurking for a bit but thought I'd post something so that you don't go deleting my membership ;) Eid Mubarak to you and all the Madina peeps :) May Allah (swt) bless you all and your families. Ameen. |
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