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Bush is a satan worshiper

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Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
01/26/03 at 01:06:42
While Bush Aschcroft and others in this facist administration claim to be christians I think that is apparent that they are really Satan Woshipers who live off of human sacrifice that is the reason why they want to go into Iraq and elsewhere so they can sacrifice innocent muslim and Iraqi children to the Shaytan then they can exploit the people of Iraq for their own economic benift.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
sofia
01/27/03 at 20:42:11
Can't say I disagree.

Did anyone see the Boondocks comic this wkd? It's really one of the only things worth buying a newspaper for (not that I normally ever do).  

http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2003/01/26/
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
wafa
01/27/03 at 23:56:42
You are very right Yunus.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
01/29/03 at 10:33:07
[quote]While Bush Aschcroft and others in this facist administration claim to be christians I think that is apparent that they are really Satan Woshipers who live off of human sacrifice that is the reason why they want to go into Iraq and elsewhere so they can sacrifice innocent muslim and Iraqi children to the Shaytan then they can exploit the people of Iraq for their own economic benift.[/quote]

You could say the exact same thing about Saddam Hussein- except he's a facist to his own people, and a wannabe facist to Western Society. If that madman continues to disrespect resolution 1441, he'll not only have the US dropping bombs on him, but the Allied forces as well.

God help the inocent people of Iraq...their own worst enemy is their leader.
01/29/03 at 10:35:06
Dude
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
humble_muslim
01/29/03 at 10:54:02
"God help the inocent people of Iraq...their own worst enemy is their leader."

Yes, and the whole world knew that 15 years ago.  But at that time, Iran was the enemy, and so Saddam - who at that time was brutalizing his own people with chemical weapns supplied by the UK and the USA - was a "friend".  So no-one cared about his people. And now ?  Bush and co care SO MUCH for Saddam's people that it's worth half a millions of his children dying to keep up the pressure on Saddam (words of Madeline Albright).  And Allah alone knows how many of "his people" will fall at the hands of cruise missiles, daisy cutters, cluster bombs, and all the other weapons of mass destruction which the USA has used to control the world with since the end of WWII.

Yes, may Allah help the innocent people of Iraq, who can't even buy aspirin.  And may Allah CURSE every wreteched soul reponsible for their suffering, and who supports it.
NS
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
sofia
01/29/03 at 11:05:11
It may sound like a "fable" but Saddam Hussain *was* at one point (if not still) on the "payroll" from the US government, whether directly or indirectly.

He *was* created (ie, supported in his position) in various times throughout his history of leadership in Iraq by the west.

He *was* created so that the US could go to war with his country, for whatever (and I don't think I need to go into details) the US could get out of it.

I don't think anyone (at least not those of us who aren't coerced into thinking otherwise) disagrees with Dude. But I also think it's naive to leave out massive parts of modern Iraqi political history.

May God protect the innocent, help us see truth as truth and follow it, and help us see falsehood as falsehood and stay far from it.

01/29/03 at 11:06:26
sofia
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
01/29/03 at 12:24:48
You are right,  Saddam had the support of the US when he was an ally against Iran.  That is the way the world works  everyone is a temporary ally.  Just like now,  Arab countries have become symathetic to Saddam because he is against the US.  So what do we do?  Saddam has and will brutalize people and that he does not care one wit about his own people.  Maybe if the other Islamic and or Arab countries would have stepped up to the plate then it would be over without having the US getting involved.  There is no solution to the situation without getting Saddam out.  It is too bad the US is getting involved,  I would rather in not be so, but who will do it?
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
humble_muslim
01/29/03 at 12:32:52
Mike,

You are implying by your last post that GW Bush is invading Iraq to save the Iraqi people because no-one else wants to save the Iraqi people.  Are you joking or just being naive ?  Since when has the USA EVER fougth a war to liberate an opressed people ?
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
humble_muslim
01/29/03 at 12:34:51
Mike,

One other thing. Ariel Sharon is brutalizing the Palestinians in land illegally occupied by Israel.  Should we send in the USA to get rid of him, too ?
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
sofia
01/29/03 at 17:35:25
Mike's got a valid point that many on this board have pointed out time and time again.

Had "Muslim" governments actually stepped up to their role as vicegerants on this Earth (let alone each of us, individually), we would be enjoining good and forbidding evil (besides getting tyrants out of the way, that also includes forbidding the *creation* of such tyrants).

True, this would not lead to a true utopic reality, since not every one will follow this simple recipe that Islaam lays out. And let's face it, this ain't Jannah.

But both points are equally valid - that some governments who currently state they'd like to "root out" evil are not necessarily sincere in their past, present or future intents/actions. And that Muslims have not lived up to the role they are meant to fill.

Allahu A'lim.

01/29/03 at 17:36:29
sofia
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
01/29/03 at 19:03:25
Mike,

You are implying by your last post that GW Bush is invading Iraq to save the Iraqi people because no-one else wants to save the Iraqi people.  Are you joking or just being naive ?  Since when has the USA EVER fougth a war to liberate an opressed people ?

Hamayoun,  sorry if I implied that. But I do not geerally think that any country goes to war for strictly humanitarian purposes.  A case in point, France is waffling on the fence about the invasion of Iraq, Why?  is it humanitarian purposes or is it the fact that they get most of their oil from Iraq and have many key contracts with Iraq?  If they think they would get some advantage out of it they would. Same with Turkey and russia and most others semi involved in the situation.  I would not consider myself not naive at all.  I do not trust any government ( that is why I would consider myself a libertarian as I have pointed out in the past , which still puts me in the minority of one here), but the reality of world politics is what it is.  As far as israel and the land they are occupying illegally (maybe you can further clarify which lands. Is that all or the west bank and gaza?), i think maybe perhaps it should.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
01/31/03 at 13:58:32
[quote]You are right,  Saddam had the support of the US when he was an ally against Iran.  That is the way the world works  everyone is a temporary ally.  Just like now,  Arab countries have become symathetic to Saddam because he is against the US.  So what do we do?  Saddam has and will brutalize people and that he does not care one wit about his own people.  Maybe if the other Islamic and or Arab countries would have stepped up to the plate then it would be over without having the US getting involved.  There is no solution to the situation without getting Saddam out.  It is too bad the US is getting involved,  I would rather in not be so, but who will do it? [/quote]

Great post.

When has the US ever gone to war to liberate others? Well, if you're implying that liberation of others would be the only motivation, never. But, the US fought alongside Canada and the rest of the Western Allies in WWII. That was a pretty big war against another tyrant, wasn't it? One thing we should all be thankful for: Saddam doesn't have the power or resources available to him that Hitler did.

Slobodan Milosevic, the former Yugoslav president, was chiefly responsible of atrocities by forces under his command against Bosnian Muslims and Croats in the 1992-95 Bosnian war. There is also damning evidence he ordered crimes against minority Serbs during the Kosovo conflict in the late '90s.

I seem to remember the US (along with Canada, the Brits, I-ties, and other UN Nations) stepping up to the plate then to bring freedom to Muslims. I don't remember Iraq, or any Arab nations, for that matter, offering a helping hand to their Muslim "brothers and sisters".

So, obviously, wars in the last half of this century, and from here on in, are largely political. There are also some very human and ethical elements to them all. Of course, the people of Iraq are going to grow to hate all Americans, especially if Dubya bombs them again. Why wouldn't they? I have a very hard time believing, though, that most well educated and sensible non-Muslim Americans (I include Bush here- even if he didn't absorb half of his expensive education, and really isn't very sensible) actually wish death or despair upon the innocent people of Iraq. The US, unfortunately, feel force is necessary to bring Saddam and his leadership down.

I hope that Saddam comes to his senses and agrees to Exile, thus preventing a full-scale military attack. I don't see it though, because that would mean he would truly have love in his heart for his own people...which I don't think he has. Three things motivate him: Power, money, and his hatred for all things American. If allowing his country to be bombed by a US lead attack means he is able to further propagate his ideas and beliefs to his people, he'll take the bombings.  

Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
humble_muslim
01/31/03 at 14:45:15
Yes, the west did help out Bosnia... after deciding for many years that Bosnia was not allowed to buy wepaons (they put sanctions on weapons), and after letting countless muslims die, and after deciding that this thing might spread if not contained now.  And I remember when Iran offered to help out the UN in Bosnia, and the then British Foreign Secretary, Douglas Herd, saying that Iran could not be allowed to participate because they would be biased (towards the muslims).  Of course, the fcat that the Russians (same ethnic group as the Serbs) were helping out but really siding with the Serbs, was irrelevent to him.

So Dude, please get your facts right before making blanket statements about how much the west is doing and how little the muslims are doing.

And as I said before, Madeleine Albright has already made it clear that she DOES wish death and destruction on the people of Iraq.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
01/31/03 at 17:04:54
facts,  Hamayoun.  there are a million different interpretations of the "facts".  If you remember in American politics there were much discussion about getting involved in the Bosnia crisis and at the same time the Somali crisis.  THere were charges from the african american community that we were willing to go into bosnia because they were europeans but were unwilling to go to Somalia because the were Africans and america was so racist.  Well we went into both and we get charged by muslims that we either didn't do it quickly enough or that we didn't belong in someone else's business.   So, hamayoun maybe you should get your facts straight , or is it that we do not agree with your interpretatin of the "facts"?  Madeleine Albright does not work for the government and that is a silly interpretation of someones statement.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
humble_muslim
01/31/03 at 17:23:28
Here is a transcript of the stuff I keep metioning about Madeline Albright when she was US Ambaassdor to the UN i.e wokring for the USA government.

>Lesley Stahl (speaking of post-war US sanctions against Iraq):
"We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And - and you know, is the price worth it?"

>Madeleine Albright (at that time, US Ambassador to the UN):
"I think this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it."

Well, I think it's time to stop beating round the bush (excuse the pun) and just make my point.  The USA is after Saddam/his oil/his country, and they do not care how many of his "innocent" people will die as a result - it will be "worth it".  And if you're willing to live with that on your conscience, then so be it.
NS
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
01/31/03 at 17:51:02
where are you making your leaps from Hamayoun?  Maybe start another post so that could be the subject.  Are you accusing me and/or Dude with having to live with our consciences?  Why?  Fine you have a problem with the US,  I don't have a problem with that.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
01/31/03 at 23:39:46
While as i muslim i obviously do not support the oppression of muslims in kosvo i suggest that people looking in to what really happend in that war the US and Nato commited massive atrocities and supported a terrorist group the kla which had been terrorizing serb citizens in kosvo to this day there are 10,000's of refugees thousands of innocent people were killed and this war could have been avoided i suggest that people look at some of the things that chomsky and zinn have written about that war in fact i post some of their comments on here if people want
the U$ has never fought a war of liberation it has always acted in its own best interests
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/01/03 at 00:12:22
[quote]While as i muslim i obviously do not support the oppression of muslims in kosvo i suggest that people looking in to what really happend in that war the US and Nato commited massive atrocities and supported a terrorist group the kla which had been terrorizing serb citizens in kosvo to this day there are 10,000's of refugees thousands of innocent people were killed and this war could have been avoided i suggest that people look at some of the things that chomsky and zinn have written about that war in fact i post some of their comments on here if people want
the U$ has never fought a war of liberation it has always acted in its own best interests [/quote]

[quote]Yes, may Allah help the innocent people of Iraq, who can't even buy aspirin.  And may Allah CURSE every wreteched soul reponsible for their suffering, and who supports it.[/quote]

Two words for those posts: shoc-king!  how on God?s green Earth can you state that that war was avoidable?
     
Slobodan Milosevic and his army were systematically moving from Kosovar town to town, gathering up all the men, lining them up face first against their houses, and shooting them in the backs of their heads. They?d then pile them up in a mass grave, and bury them in a blatant attempt to hide the evidence. The troops would then take all the women and children and essentially turn them into their personal slaves. Women young and pretty enough were raped repeatedly, even gang raped. I read of one first hand account (from a refugee Serb who landed in Vancouver, and told her story to the press) where a soldier held a gun to a boy?s head and ordered him to rape his own sister.

I?m sorry for the graphic details, but how can anyone say that war was avoidable when such large scales of ethnic cleansing, pillage, and rape were being committed, uncontested?

It is pretty obvious that as far as [some] are concerned, the American government can do no right by Muslims, no matter what, no matter when. Ironic, considering had an atrocity like September 11th occurred in, say, China, you could bet that all Chinese or non-Chinese Muslims living in China would be systematically rounded up and tossed into an internment camp, and be stripped 100% of all their rights and freedoms- just like the Japanese were in Canada in WWII.

[Edited by Admin]
02/01/03 at 04:39:06
jannah
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
02/01/03 at 00:39:55
you need to read what really happend and not [...] by corporate media. You should read my other post where chomsky goes into detail about all these fallacies you bring up. Also he has a book on the subject you should check it out.

I am not a supporter of Milosevich but you should read about what really happened as far as mass graves and other things you bring up those claims have not been substantiated.

Also i am sorry for the run on sentence i tend to do that a lot.

thats right I think that  the american government can't do anything right by anyone domestically or abroad. Both parties work for the elite white capitialist class
You should do some reading up on the history of this country you should [read] anything written by Chomsky or Zinn I suggest start with The Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn. Then you should go shake up the system

[Edited by Admin]
02/01/03 at 04:40:59
jannah
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
02/01/03 at 01:23:35
I have read chomsky and still do ( and i get to hear him on our beloved  KPFK Pacifica all the time). Maybe you should try reading Ayn rand and I could give you some others.  They hate big evil capitalism but what do they want to replace it with?  Socialism?  I have been there done that and it is a sick society where people do  not want to work or go the extra mile for anything.  There is no perfect governement here on earth and I will stick trying to stop the spread of big governemnt in every aspect i can.  

[Edited by Admin]
02/01/03 at 04:42:03
jannah
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
jannah
02/01/03 at 04:34:48
[color=red][Admin NOTE: Ok the personal  insults in this thread are coming to an end now. Please refrain from insulting anyone. I have edited all above posts and will certainly follow the constitution's rules if it continues.][/color]
02/01/03 at 04:42:46
jannah
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
UmmWafi
02/01/03 at 14:09:58
[slm]

Can you believe it ? I am back in the Ummah Comm Centre :) Will I never learn my lesson ? May Allah Preserve me  ::)

I would just like to make an observation and just give my two cents worth on the thread.  Its just my two cents worth folks (give and take the value of currency in view of inflation) and not an injunction for all to accept.

Firstly, IMHO, it would be good if we focus on the issues at hand rather on speculations.  Yes, at times we can make an assessment of someone's character based on his actions.  Still, it must be a fair assessment.  I am no fan of GWB and there are many of his actions I would and still do condemn.  I have my own opinions and assessment of his mental abilities and character based on his actions.  However, to label someone as a satan worshipper to me is ..dare I say it ?..inappropriate.  Unless of course the thread is on the discovery and development of the satan worshipping cult.  As a President, he stinks.  Maybe his personal opinions of Islam stink too but should we engage in this kind of strong labelling ?  

Secondly, I know this is kind of simplistic, but what we know of things happening around the world and what had happened before, is subjective and relative.  Not many of us here can boast of being in the thick of the actions to conclude decisively on something.  Much of what we know are churned by the media and we are all aware that the media is the biggest fiction producing machine.  Thus, our knowledge of politics and political issues are at best analytical and inductive.  Even if we were a soldier fighting for the US Army against Iraq in Operation Desert Storm, truth is still relative.  Even if we were a mujahideen in Afghanistan, truth is still relative.   So, lets stop finger pointing and discuss the best way to save humanity.  What do we get from repeatedly saying that US is bad ? What do you get from repeatedly saying that Arab and Muslim countries are hopeless ?  A few minutes of petty satisfaction perhaps.  At the end of the day, judging by the way things are going, stupidity will triumph over common sense.  Isn't that the biggest tragedy now ?

To all, my sincerest apologies if any of my words above offended you.  InshaAllah, it was never my intention to do so.  Honestly.  I just had to write the above to share with you what I feel about name calling and finger pointing between groups when the world's sanity is threatened by a few bad men.

Astarghfirullah.

Your sis-in-Islam who wishes that her children would still be able to see beauty in the simple act of the flapping wings of a butterfly resting on a wildflower.....

Wassalam.
02/01/03 at 14:15:47
UmmWafi
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
02/01/03 at 14:14:33
I have read Rand I am not a big fan of hers what we need to do is allow people to govern themselves. I am against any form of government that imposes artificial system of laws on people. I think that we just need to do away with governments that impose artificial expolitve systems on us. Ayn Rand is in line with american libritarian thinking maybe you should read about true libritarianism ie european.

I am not a big fan of ideology and borrow my political beliefs from many sources ie Hasan al banna, Shari Ati, Emma Goldman, Eugene Debs,Bakunin, Marx,  Che and others although I disagree with a lot of what each writes. I think that governement does not provide any service that people collectives cant. Any form of representational politics needs to be done away with, so does corporations. People on a local level in collectives should openly be able to determine there fate not let corporations in cahoots with politicians work to benefit themselves.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/02/03 at 02:41:00
Admin- this isn't meant to be an insult.

Yunus: there are some great hippie communities in the North Western US and South Western Canada you should consider moving too. They all encompass your ideology of the perfect community. ::)

Basically, I'm going to right everything you post up to as your being 20 years old, and are only spouting off a popular opinion. The fact is, you benefit everyday from your country...its social and capitalistic aspects (yeah- I read your profile a few days ago, showing the Yank Flag for your home country).



You shouldn't be so quick to bite the hand that feeds you.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
02/02/03 at 14:19:59
i am not a hippie i am a muslim
further how do i benefit from this government they dont feed me in fact this government opresses people domestically and abroad. I certainly dont think that i have a popular opinion and dont think my ideas are old ceratinly the system we have is anachronistic and needs to be changed to actually fit the needs of people which it never has.
Further i dont belive in utopian communites (and i dont suscribe to one particular ideology) there will never be utopia in dunnah that is why Allah made jannah but certainly things could be better the system we have only works to help the rich elite class now.
Clarify your statments how does capitialism as it exists today benefit everyone certainly my brothers and sisters in bangledesh who are children working at the nike factories are not benefiting by working there rather they are being exploited.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
02/02/03 at 17:36:45
capitalism is not made to benefit anyone.  It is made to allow people to benefit themselves.  What type of government is Bangladesh?  It is somewhat socialist in nature, but the problem is allowing government to make socai ldecisions for the people.  Then these guys who are somewhat or completely dictatorial in nature (which is the nature of man to keep grabbing power) that then make deals only to enrich themsleves and capitalist companies take advantage of these peoples.  actually corporation love socialist type goverments because most companies do not want the competition and that is why they love monopolies that are protected by governments.  I ove that statement the government does not feed me like they are required?  Isn't it your responsiblity to feed yourself?  I would also be very interested to know, would most muslims be  considered to the left politically.  Of my 1+ year here at Jannah.org that is my biggest dissappointment to learn that seems to be the case
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
02/02/03 at 19:15:33
i dont expect anything from the government and do believe it is up to me to feed myself and take care of my family
i am on the left  (i consider myself a radical) i would not say i am a socialist, anarchist, communist or liberal it depends largely on what issue we are talking about though. I think that many muslims are all over the place on the political spectrum sadly in my opinion most muslims voted for Bush.
I think that you clarified my point corporations are only concerned about benefiting the elite class.
I dont think that i would call bangledesh a socialist country. From my perspective the only socialist countries in the world are Cuba (a country i admire but have serious issues with) and the scandinavian countries.
Why does it bother you to interact with a "radical" muslim would you like me more if i wa a flag waving conservative who stands behind capitalist expoitation.
As a liberitarian wouldnt you consider yourself on the "left" I think we can both agree we would like to see as little governement intervention in peoples lives as possible  
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
ltcorpest2
02/02/03 at 19:54:37
who said it bothered me.  If I let things bother me with people i disagree with i wouldn't be here.  Asa liertarian i would never consider myself on the left or rihgt.  I would think though that i have more in common with the christian right then the left however (hopefully people wont take offence at that)
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/03/03 at 00:53:31
Yunus: two words for your last two posts. You know them. You also know why (relax Admin, we’re just having a lively discussion).

Why should you be ashamed of being “Right leaning”? I run my own small business myself, and I started it mainly because I was tired of lining the pockets of my old boss. I’m not a millionaire by any means, but we’re secure enough that I can set my own hours, take my boy to swimming and skating after work, and most importantly, give more away. The downfall- we sometimes run into some pretty lean months (no guaranteed income). The upside- I’m the master of my own destiny.

Not to toot my countries’ own horn too much, but the nice thing about Canada is that we are more socialistic than the US. You will never be refused medical services in Canada, and everyone has the right (in fact, you are required) to a free education up to grade twelve (as do you Yunus, as a Yank). Having said that, the downfall to the Medicare system is that there are unreasonable waiting lists, and not enough beds for all the sick. It seems that a combination of the two systems would be the best solution: a public system, supported by private companies. Some Provinces are starting to move towards this, to help solve some of the funding shortfalls with the current public system.

I say all this knowing full well it is trivial compared to the care and education that the citizens of most communist countries, and all 3rd world countries operating under dictatorships. I personally think we are incredibly lucky in Canada, the US, and Western Europe that our Governments have made the most of combining the two systems to give it’s people the leg-up. At the end of the day, it is up to each government to provide for it’s own people first, then others second. It is also the ultimate responsibility of each individual to provide for themselves and their families. Our countries have made it as easy as possible for us to do that. The US and Canada have been leaders in providing foreign aid since the end of WWII. The US has certainly been involved in more politically controversial conflicts, and that has brought hatred from the rest of the world.

To say that the US is a fascist regime is a HUGE stretch.

[quote]Clarify your statments how does capitialism as it exists today benefit everyone certainly my brothers and sisters in bangledesh who are children working at the nike factories are not benefiting by working there rather they are being exploited.[/quote]

As Mike just implied, perhaps Nike- or any other corporation- has applied some unethical corporate decision-making in the name of gaining profits. No argument here. But why are they over there? Because Canada and the US have laws against the exploitation of children, minimum wage laws, and workplace standards such as OSHA in place to ensure worker safety. Would the children of Bangladesh be living in such obscenely inhumane conditions if their own government chose to protect them? You don't see Nike sweat shops like this in Sweden, do you?
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
BrKhalid
02/03/03 at 11:11:37
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)

[quote]Of my 1+ year here at Jannah.org that is my biggest dissappointment to learn that seems to be the case [/quote]


Mike what leads you to this conclusion then?


[quote]Why should you be ashamed of being “Right leaning”? I run my own small business myself, and I started it mainly because I was tired of lining the pockets of my old boss. I’m not a millionaire by any means, but we’re secure enough that I can set my own hours, take my boy to swimming and skating after work, and most importantly, give more away. The downfall- we sometimes run into some pretty lean months (no guaranteed income). The upside- I’m the master of my own destiny[/quote]


Dude - What exactly did you mean by "give more away"?
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/03/03 at 12:10:55
Charities. We do our best to support a variety. My wife likes to give to the Mosque. I'm not totally opposed to that, but I tend to prefer giving to non-religious societies. Not because I'm against religion, but because of most charities, they seem to get the most support because of the substantial clergy (a good thing). Plus, I don’t know where the money’s going.

There are a lot of charitable foundations that are out there own without religious affiliation, and I prefer to give to them.

There we go. No we’re way off topic. Dubya’s the devil. There, back on topic. ;)

02/03/03 at 12:19:49
Dude
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
jannah
02/03/03 at 14:01:18
[quote] Not because I'm against religion, but because of most charities, they seem to get the most support because of the substantial clergy (a good thing).[/quote]

Muslim charities get jack . Not only that but they are on the gov't's "TERRORIST" organization lists without ANY PROOF. They've frozen the assets and working ability of many relief organizations, which is not only sad, but it's pathetic.
Not only do they continue and support the sanctions practically as a sole effort, but they also hinder the abilities of Muslim NGO's to go into Muslim countries like Iraq and try to help the innocent people and children that are suffering there.

BTW most mosques have an annual report which lists their budget and 'where the money went'.
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/03/03 at 14:14:23
I don't know how you were able to find yourself getting all bent out of shape about that one, but you obviously have.

I make it a practice to donate to non-religious charities. My choice. My wife gives to Mosques here in Vancouver, and that's her choice. I don't begrudge her, and she doesn't begrudge me. Somehow you're implying here that Mosques and Muslim charities are, on a whole, more deserving of my or anyone else’s charity. Some may be worthy, some may not be. I simply choose to give my money to the charities I support.

Tell me, Jannah, what is wrong with that? Don't non-religious, down and out people need help too? Please, enlighten me?

(I can’t wait for the replies on this one…)
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
jannah
02/03/03 at 14:24:27
Dude you can spend your money wherever you like. No one really cares. You'll note I didn't say anything about your contribution or lack of, but was talking about Muslim charities and the injustices they are facing in this present time. A point against your statement of religious charities receiving "substantial support."
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/03/03 at 14:48:51
My point is this: typically, religious charities receive greater support because of their religious ties. Christians are typically more inclined to give to their church, or a charity recommended by the church. The same applies to Muslims.

This is a broad generalization, and obviously doesn't apply to everyone. If people give to help those less fortunate, I will never have any problem with it. I agree with one of your points: freezing the assets of Mosques is asinine. I think we'd all be naive to assume there aren't some Mosques out there with some "questionable" ties to some "questionable" charities. The same applies with some Christian charities. It's bound to happen...but having said that, most men who chose to become Mullanahs, Preists, Pastors, Rabbis, or Preachers do so to help others, and abhor any violence of any type.

At least, I like believing that.
02/03/03 at 14:49:48
Dude
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
02/03/03 at 15:10:17
dude i am not against private local buisness but corporations who really dont have any concern for their workers especially in the 3rd world the reason why these 3rd world countries wont protect thier workers is cause the elite and the coroporations benefit by have litttle to no saftey conditions in these countries that is why us corporations have moved there
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
Dude
02/03/03 at 18:23:43
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In this case, corporations like Nike set up shop in China, India, and other impoverished countries because they can manufacture their products for a fraction of the cost that it takes to do the same here. Why? Because those countries and their governments don't protect their workers nearly as well (costs $$$), have a substantially lower minimum wage (if any at all), and can keep them working longer hours, with fewer breaks. Yes, some corporations exploit this, and it is wrong, but my point is that these governments ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN!

Don't blame your government for the shortfall of others, in cases like this. Don't you think your local, state, and federal government would rather have these companies keep production on shore? If that same Nike plant in India was instead set up in Indiana, it'd be employing Americans, relying on local services, and paying the property and corporate taxes these plants would pay. It's a no-brainer, really...

If you really don't like what companies like Nike and others do, boycott their products. Write a letter to Phillip Knight (founder, chairman, and CEO of Nike), or protest. You can do that in your country you know...protest? You have the right to peaceful protest. I bet the kids in Bangladesh don't have that right.
02/03/03 at 18:24:49
Dude
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
yunus
02/04/03 at 00:19:11
i do boycott their products that is why i ear homemade clothes fair trade or used
how can you justify what  they are doing though regardless if it is in cahoots with the governments the fact is both are wrong
I do peacefully protest i am an organizer
look why dont we carry this conversation and the on about kosovo on im there is no need for personal attacks on each other to be aired publicly
Re: Bush is a satan worshiper
jannah
02/04/03 at 16:53:58
I don't see this discussion benefitting anyone here. If anyone would like to continue, please take the discussion offline. (which means to email or whatever) Also, I'd ask everyone to read the constitution again.
02/04/03 at 16:57:04
jannah


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